micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited June 2020
For years NW suffers the same design issue, and now it's the same again. One class is over performing some others in the role, so it's nerfed, but ofc, nerfed to the ground. Now it will take how may mods until it is overcorrected back? An extremely slow and overshooting pendulum.
Have issue with the shield, remove it all together for all I personally care. But nullifying players investment into a class by making it bottom tier is what happens again and again. Not everyone can invest the time for different classes, nor everyone want to play different classes each time a "balance pass" comes.
If there are not enough resources to maintain uniqueness, like we see in practice in the tab mechanics, then just normalize the rest of the powers and be done with it. At this point, when everything is "streamlined" maybe it's just better to treat classes as cosmetics rather than see people disappointed in their class choice or others whine how the neighbor's grass is so so greener.
Class diversity requires content to support the need for that uniqueness, different content mechanics where different classes or aspects of those roles excel. If in the limited relevant content that the devs can make, the support for those uniqueness can't be made, there will be always a more fitting class for the task. So either all the relevant class should be able to perform the needed aspects of the role, e.g. mitigation / shield, DoT heal, burst heal, and so on, either by setting class feats, loadouts or what not, or they all can be equally bad at similar aspects. That is until that uniqueness can be properly supported, if at all.
This is not the optimal outcome, very very far from it, but it is also not the worst. PLayers leaving the game because the class they put so much time in got a "balance pass" is the worst.
I think instead of making huge walls of text, or making suggestions we need to get a breakdown from a dev. Why they made the change and what they actually want healing to be.
As I doubt any dev would leave a comment on this hamster-up, lets just search for clues. They neutered the ability to heal - a flat nerf from the beginner healers up to the top - by a significant margin. If I say the ability to heal is halved to the live version, it would be an understatement. In most cases there indeed is a limited possibility to heal a target you marked prior the battle, but otherwise - in a real life scenario - a healer no longer can outperform a healing potion. As a healing potion is for the majority of the players not enough to stay alive in any dungeon/trial, devs' intention must have roots in the desire to see another wave of desperate players hopelessly dying in some ten mods old content.
Either that, or they plan to remove the healer role completely, just did not bother to finish the job... I honestly cannot figure out any other possible reason why they did what they did.
The final countdown is here. All we can do now is wait and hope for the best. Maybe when it hit live they will post "Happy june's fool!". And we will be like "oooohhhhh, oh hohoooo, you got us good there!".
Or we might get screw for the next 1 to 21 weeks.
Right now i know its for the "big surprise" in the roadmap but.. Pls don't tell me you murdered us for a new class.
The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
0
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I think instead of making huge walls of text, or making suggestions we need to get a breakdown from a dev. Why they made the change and what they actually want healing to be. Then suggestions and or changes that are in line with what they are looking for would be much more constructive.
@thefabricant you obviously have direct line to the devs due to you being in the closed preview and You are already a few steps ahead of us. Is it possible instead of making huge pages of suggestions would it be possible to just get a dev to comment on what they want and why.
I don't have nearly as much "leverage" as people think I do, but I can tell you why heals were nerfed again - They were nerfed again because players demonstrated it was still possible to solo heal the Zariel trial, which the devs did not want to be possible. Now, I do not fully agree with the change, there are lots of things you can do aside from nerfing in this particular instance to achieve the same result (for example, adding an Arcturia cocoon to the fight which only targets healers), but my complaint is less about an overall reduction to all healers and more about a reduction in what makes specific healers unique.
The problem of nerfing a role because of a single trial on preview... lays in the "preview" and "single trial".
People running that trial on preview are in many ways special cases - and if we overlook the number of healing stones and scrolls used... they are still geared up to quite uncommon levels. And they are experienced players.
...healers in random queues were already often under-performing. Blame the lack of skill, being under-geared - it does not matter. The point is that with the upcoming changes in the best case scenario this aspect wont change, in the worst case it gets systematically much worse. Now add a massive nerf to the mixture. Demogorgon once again will be a failure after a failure. And I do not wish to see Demo neutered the same way as SVA - which was "fixed" by removing all sources of damage except one.
The problem of nerfing a role because of a single trial on preview... lays in the "preview" and "single trial".
People running that trial on preview are in many ways special cases - and if we overlook the number of healing stones and scrolls used... they are still geared up to quite uncommon levels. And they are experienced players.
...healers in random queues were already often under-performing. Blame the lack of skill, being under-geared - it does not matter. The point is that with the upcoming changes in the best case scenario this aspect wont change, in the worst case it gets systematically much worse. Now add a massive nerf to the mixture. Demogorgon once again will be a failure after a failure. And I do not wish to see Demo neutered the same way as SVA - which was "fixed" by removing all sources of damage except one.
Yesterday i queued solo for the first time in a while as a healer and got edemo, at the end i had almost 23M healing done and the second healer had 2.8M, imagine that in mod 19. They want to nerf end game so hard that they end up HAMSTER new to mid game players with the changes they make
Random queues will suffer even more now. They already have problems with running stuff like CR/LOMM where people just abandon the dungeon instead of running it. How will new to mid range healers especially paladin healers cope when they simple cannot heal ?
Random queues will suffer even more now. They already have problems with running stuff like CR/LOMM where people just abandon the dungeon instead of running it. How will new to mid range healers especially paladin healers cope when they simple cannot heal ?
People will either quit the game, run their alternate paragon, or create another toon, and forget they ever had a healer. Personally, I'll still run my healer, but only with guild/alliance mates, and only if they are in discord. Otherwise, I'm only going to be running DPS paragon. I'll just make sure I have plenty of healthstones (or health potions, depending on the content I'm running) and scrolls for those times when the lag decides that I didn't get out of the red in time. I wont expect the healer to heal me.
I'm reminded of mod 16... You know, when they told us that they wanted to make healers relevant again (LOL!!! jokes on us!) When they were told over and over and over again, do NOT let this go live, there are too many problems, the scaling isn't right, too many bugs, it's not ready, people will quit the game en masse... and they didn't listen. And people quit the game en masse. And within weeks they were making changes to effectively undo what they had done, but by then, it was too late.
So, what have they learnt? Nothing, it seems.
How long after this launch before they make changes because healers are quitting en masse? Within 2 weeks is my bet. And will we have another twitch stream with them apologising to us again, telling us they are sorry they didn't listen to us, again. And promising that they'll make it better, again.
If the problem was the pally shield, address the pally shield. If the problem was the power-creep, address the power-creep. If the problem is that people are dreading the use of targeted spells, address the targeting system.
The whole concept of healing needed fine-tuning, and the fine-tuning was once again done with a nuke. And when that brought an unexpected result, they threw another one. Now,... lets just sit and watch the world burn, that is all we can do anyway.
I have the theory that they nerf acording in what they read. Like:
Soulweave: So, i love the class and role, but i can't get in trials cuz im a soulweaver and ppl only want pallyheals and in some cases DCs.. Can you give us more magnitudes or change the unused powers? Thanks. Devs: Ok, so you want us to nerf pallyheals and DCs? you got it. SW: What? That's not what i mea-- Devs: Its ok, we got you back. And here, some shields. SW: Wow, thanks but-- Devs: But we need to nerf your mags. SW: ... Devs: And since we are here.. BOOM.. Full rework. SW: I just wanted some more mag-- Devs: But the powers suck, there's a status quo , you know? SW: Pls, just stop..
And even:
Random Dps: I have 200k power and still get outdps by a 100k random dps class, can you increase my mags? Devs: Got it, nerfs incoming.
Now, if my theory is correct, we need to ask this way: "Tried X encounter first with 100K power and then 150K power and the difference is almost none, can you please check it out?" There we ain't naming other classes so the risk of a nerf is less.
Disclaimer: The power used in the examples are just to help the example be a example. Also, is mostly a joke to kill time.
The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
it's a shame. The new healing system (DC healer) sucks. You destroyed the healers, now there is no dungeon left for lack of healers. I will be forced to pass a DC dps to have some fun.
Was it boring before the cure system? And now? More boring. You don't like it more.
So, as a soulweaver i want to say something. First i will say it bluntly: I hate so much the new soulweaver. We told you it was wrong and yet you lauched it. Tried a Lomm, if Revitalize don't crit its a real pain or imposible. And can't use the tab mechanic there cuz its probably buggy. Most time i need to spam the tab to mark the target. Soulstorm particles are so low i only know it stoped its efect cuz i see my team getting beated. Lifespark heal is so sad most of the times i forgot it exist. The buffs are low, short and with holy long CDs. The mags are so low, runing shield ain't that worth even while doing something without a pallyheal. The kit, class features and feats are just sad, so your "diversity" failed.
Now, the polite way: I appreciate that you took the time to try to make the soulweaver something good, but sadly it didn't work out as you expected. My recommendation is that the next time you want to make a remake, first create a thread about it to get feedback BEFORE you do any change, to avoid a mayority of rage.
In other note, i would appreciate if you could make a post like the "tank" one, explaining better why this changes and/or the healing formula. Kinda hate having tons and tons of crit if i don't even know if it actually works like everyone say.
With mixed feelings, a soulweaver.
The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
i cant believe they actually released it lol i tried doing codg and people were dying in ways they weren't before and the top healings were tanks and dps who drank potions or something idk, honestly pray to your gods that this was for thr better because you just destroyed an already low population of healers and making them completely useless
i cant believe they actually released it lol i tried doing codg and people were dying in ways they weren't before and the top healings were tanks and dps who drank potions or something idk, honestly pray to your gods that this was for thr better because you just destroyed an already low population of healers and making them completely useless
i hope yall listen next time
Same happend to me in a codg, somehow i was top healer. Then, the boss came, started killing everyone cuz we couldn't keep them alive.. And still, i ended up with like 15M healing and tanks/dps with 26M or more. The devs sure did a great job with this adjustment.
The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
i cant believe they actually released it lol i tried doing codg and people were dying in ways they weren't before and the top healings were tanks and dps who drank potions or something idk, honestly pray to your gods that this was for thr better because you just destroyed an already low population of healers and making them completely useless
i hope yall listen next time
Same happend to me in a codg, somehow i was top healer. Then, the boss came, started killing everyone cuz we couldn't keep them alive.. And still, i ended up with like 15M healing and tanks/dps with 26M or more. The devs sure did a great job with this adjustment.
Random CoDG is a terrible way to measure healing because there will be many players there who don't know that augment companions are generally better and so they use active companions. When these active companions die by falling from the platform and are automatically resurrected, their full HP value (generally over 500k) is counted towards the owner's healing amount in the board. And this happens over and over again. It was very common to see DPS/Tanks being "fake top healers" in random CoDG even before M19 due to this.
Lets be honest, it's the same thing every time, they ignore hundreds of comments from players telling them the changes are bad, and 1 or 2 weeks after said changes go live they realize how bad they were and slowly (very slowly) they start making changes
> @carloswartune#5709 said: > (Quote) > Random CoDG is a terrible way to measure healing because there will be many players there who don't know that augment companions are generally better and so they use active companions. When these active companions die by falling from the platform and are automatically resurrected, their full HP value (generally over 500k) is counted towards the owner's healing amount in the board. And this happens over and over again. It was very common to see DPS/Tanks being "fake top healers" in random CoDG even before M19 due to this. > > That said, I agree, the changes are terrible.
mine wasnt random, my friends and i agreed to test my healing out and everyone had augments or xunas
anyways targettibg with tab is still severely bugged. lifespark is unintuitive and its never done any of the important inspirits. Somehow even though i did reserve my heals for the bursts i never got my divinity back to full.
the support spells aka warlocks bargain felt like i was doing nothing at the cost of removing my ability to do 1000 magnitude heal,
rangers could shield better than me so feypact, although severely underpowered and slow,was the better optiob,
the pillar of powers cooldown is so high for an effect that is so unimpactful thatits no longer in my slots
tried it in bel, its best with vampiric embrace, soulstorm, and revitalize and found myself replacing revitalize with, shockingly, dreadtheft just so that i could wait out my divinity back up while feeling like i was doing something and ended up single target healing my party more
it wasnt fun, it was exhausting, it was an arbiter cleric who chose healing spells
I fell like warlock has just 1 power in the end, soul reconstruction lol.
Every other power is useless because its bad or because u have a palla in the party and u have to change your feats or has a 1 hour cooldown....
I was a ranger, having real fun with my build switching stances with blades and arrows with many encounters but now its just melee at-wills with some encounter every min or so. not fun. changed to warlock, now this lol just at wills again.
The game is not fun anymore, just boring using At-wills all the time.
-Warlock doesnt have a good AoE heal -Doesnt give good shields as a palla +Warlocks heals good a single target
I dont know, for a 10 ppl trial, not good, not fun....
All the great feedback from dedicated players in this thread and the sad part is that the Devs will continue to do exactly what they always wanted to do as if it didn’t exist. They did it in Mod 16 despite the outcry from the player base and they will continue to do it as the mood takes them in the future much to the detriment of the fun factor in this game.
I've just healed an epic for the first time in this expansion (Val's Tower). It wasn't as bad as I feared despite having to change my usual style completely. One of the party actually took the trouble to contact me afterwards and thank me for good healing - I only wish I could have agreed, but more likely it was a good party. The basic problem is the same as it has always been. Lack of proper design. I nearly gave up NW altogether on first trying when I came across the antique method of a separate screen mode for certain actions (using ALT). This is simply bad and lazy programming. From that acorn so much else springs - the near impossibility of targeting a group member who needs healing, and all the emphasis on AOE healing that results, for instance. A fundamental lack of design has had a huge influence on all subsequent design. It would be so easy to dedicate keys to target group members, but they won't do it. There's some sort of bone-headed philosophy behind it (we don't want to copy WoW??). So now we have a mechanism for targeting someone (as long as they stand still for long enough and you don't want to change it) which must rate as one of the clunkiest ever, and three different actions for the same key. This is simply crazy. How did such proposals ever see the light of day? Did nobody say 'Stop! let's just have a simple way to target another player, then we can free up all these 'mechanics' and put something useful in their place'? I love healing, but it was so unforgiving during levelling that I avoided it, and only started in endgame. Now it seems it has to be learned all over again. Can I be bothered? Given that the new expansion is also so depressing to look at, and so uninteresting to play, my expectation of continuing once house arrest is a thing of the past is very slight.
Already "got" the hang of the new warlock, still don't like it, but i will wait until next patch to give a constructive feedback. Got my rotation ready (just the same 3 encounters...), discovered how to reduce the amount of soulweave burn while keeping the team alive and started to let everyone die if they run ahead of the team or stand next to the tank for more than 5-10 seconds (cuz they might have lag). So i feel pretty confident with my new play style. Only waiting to next patch to see if i need to change something on my feedback.
Btw, i do like that you forced the ppl to start playing smarter.
The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
This is not fun, this doesnt work. Players need a good scaling system. And healer characters need to play with some consistency. New system is not what i want or deserve. Do something for your players, not players, we are clients.
THE SOULSTORM AND THE LIFESPARK ARE BARELY VISIBLE THAT SOMETIMES I HAVE TO CAST IT TWICE BC I WASNT SURE IF IT WAS CASTED IR IF I BUGGED OUT
LIFESPARK TARGETTING BUGGED AND ITS CODING SUCKS THAT IT HEALS VERY DELIBERATELY SLOW WHEN U WANT IT TO TARGET AND DO SOMETHING ELSE
IF U WANTED SMARTER PLAYS YOU SHOULD HAVE KEPT THE OLD SOULSPARK CHART AT LEAST I COULD SEE AND CALCULATE HOW MUCH SPARKS I ACTUALLY HAVE OR AM GAINING
COOLDOWNS FOR PILLAR OF POWER AND WRAITH SHADOW IS SO BAD THAT ITS NOT ON MY ROTATIONS BC I DO ALOT OF WAITING AS A WARLOCK NOW WHAT DO U WANT ME TO DO
THE SHIELD OR HOT AS FEAT IS POINTLESS. YOU WANT US TO BUY ANOTHER LOADOUT OR ELSE ITS DETRIMENTAL TO PLAY WITH PALAS SO ITS ALWAYS SAFER FOR HOT. MAKE IT NOT REPLACE SHIELDS OR DELETE ALL CONTENT WHO NEEDS SHIELDS AND MAKE EACH HEALER HEAL DIFFERENTLY, NOT WITH THE SAME S HITTY TARGETTING AND SH ITTY AOE
STOP ATTEMPTING TO MAKE WARLOCK A DPS HEAL CLASS IF UR CONTENT IS NOT DESIGNED AROUND IT BEING VIABLE. 20 MAGNITUDE FOR 10 SOULWEAVE???? USELESS FEATURE. GAIN MORE SOULWEAVE THE MORE YOU ATTACK BUT ITS SUPER LOW U CANT NOTICE IT???? USELESS FEATURE.
TRY TO RELEASE A VERSION OF UR OWN GUIDE AS TO HOW TO MAKE WARLOCK EFFECTIVE. TELL US WHAT U WANT FROM US. ITS SUCKS TO BE WARLOCK RN I DONT THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW AWFUL IT RLY IS WHEN OUR CORE CLASS MECHANICS WITH THE LIFESPARK IS SEVERELY SLOW TO PLAY WITH THATBIT CANT REACTIVELY HEAL WHEN NECESSARY. TELL US HOW U WANT THIS CLASS TO BE PLAYED. IM JUST SPAMMING VAMPIRIC EMBRACE AND ITS SO USELEDS WHEN THERES NO ENEMNY AROUNF. EVERY HEALER CLASS RN ISPLAYED LIKE A WARLOCK WITH THE AOE HEAL AROUND SELF ITSELF AND THE HIGH SINGLE TARGET HEAL EXCEPT FOR THE WARLOCK ITSELF WHO STRUGGLES WITH ALL THOSE ASPECTS BC WE NEED TO DAMAGE SOMETHING TO GIVE SUBPAR HEALS, WE NEED THE SHIFT DPS CLASS TO STAY IN ONE SMALL SPACE TO GIVE OKAY AOE HEALS THAT WE CANT SPAM ANYMORE, THE WAELOCKS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THE CHANGES JUST HAVENT OLAYED ANOUGH OF THE OLD WARLOCK TO KNOW WHATS GOOD FOR IT. EVERY TRIAL WILL NOW STILL WANT A CLERIC AND A PALA. WARLOCKS ARE STILL UNDERPERFORMING. WARLOCKS NEED TO HAVE A CORE GAME DESIGN THAT IS UNDER OUR CONTROL. WE NEED A STABLE AOE HEAL THAT IS UNDER OUR CONTROL. IF YOU WANT SMARTER PLAYS, MAKE THINGS BE UNDER OUR CONTROL. FIX YOUR BUGS AND CODE THE GAME BETTER. THIS ISNT AGAINST YOU, I AM A PLAYER AND THIS SHOULD BE LISTENED TO.
THE CHANEGS TO HEALING ARE ONLY AMAZING FOR THE CLERICS RN, WHO DONT HAVE TO SPAM TAB. BUT IT DOESNT WORK THE SAME WHEN U SPEND THE SAME HIGH <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> AMOUJT 9F DIVINITY FOR SUBPAR HEALS
ILL BE EXPECTING EXPLANATIONS, WE DESERVE TO KNOW UR GAME DESIGN PHILOSOPHIES
@ancientry Come on, you know they don't play Soulweaver, not even one of them "elite" chosens to play the alphas. What kind of soulweaver would agreed with this shhiit? I did play templock and the soulweaver, and after i give them plenty of feedback to revert some of the rework or make a new one that would be usefull and fun, i finally needed to accept that we (soulweaver) are SHHIIIIITT for them.
As templocks we could do everything, it was the perfect support.
Then, with soulweaver we mostly have our buffs/debuffs as passives and then healing. And most of the debuffs came from the CURSES they said WE LEFT BEHIND. And yes, it was a 5% debuff, but at least it could be almost permanent thanks to life bind or harrowstorm. And healing wasn't a pain even with soul recontruction.
Now, we have this monster, and not in the good way. Lifespark it's mostly a vanity pet from zelda. Tab works most of the times (the mark) but there are times when you don't know if you mark it, and the channeling takes even longer to activate. No kidding, i press it one, leave it and then i see i heal the target. A pain to do, but still better than Soul Reconstruction. HoT are SHHIIIIT, damn low and feels like they take forever to activate. Shield? PFFFF, just use infernal barrier. Vampire Embrace is cool but almost don't even use it. Why? Target and no side effect for general battles. PoP? Only use it for Trob fight cuz most ppl don't have enough hp, same with Soul Barrier. And after that i change it. Revitalize is damn bad but at least i can use it more often if i can keep the barriers up. Soulstorm its the same and only use it as emergency. And damn, both powers are crrraaaaap.
Class features? Only soulbound is "good" enough to use.
Feats? Trust me or not, i tested playing with only faypact/hellpact and Soul Reclamation and then with the mix of others.... With only those 2 or with 5 you don't feel any change. Meaning the rest of the feats are USELESS.
So, whats the idea? Here is my theory. Templock was mostly a dmg/healer/buff/debuff, they needed to change everything in mod 16 but couldn't get rid of it since most ppl was playing it as a "healer", so they created Soulweaver. Tried to make it the closest to templock but failed. Luckly for them, warlocks fans found a way to make it usefull for MOST content and started to love it after a long time. Now, they wanted to make a new one cuz THEY FEELED that we wasn't enjoing our gameplay due to blue bars and burst heals. Soulweaver wasn't "good" for some trials, but it was a class that required a good team to be abble to shine. So, they decided it was rework time. But hey, we can't overshadow DCs or OPs so we have double nerfs and a whole new kit of powers that are BAD and need to be learned from 0.
I would love if they change PoP to an active aura around the warlock and make the powers, class features and feats synergice with it. That would make us more viable and usefull.
I WANT to believe they are trying their best to make the warlock a good healer but all this just tell me "just make a OP or DC".
Already "learned" how to heal and the most "efficient" rotation, but i hate it.
On other note, I don't care anymore if i don't get to top healer in the chart. With this changes im more concerned about not letting their life go down with infernal barrier, that way you worrie less about healing. Which actually makes the game harder cuz you are jumping all over the place and running from side to side to get a good aim. I do let die the ones that run ahead without the tank, and my god its fun. They run ahead like nothing changed and not even use healing items thinking i will rush to save them, and im like "LOL, no thank you, i want to save my soulweave for when the team gets here". I would start saving HAMSTER tons of AD if i where you, they might change an Armor Ench to replenish soulweave or something like that.. If there is Eclipse for stamina, we can also dream.
And for those that for some reason want to try Soulweaver for the first time, DO NOT use PoP nor Wraith's Shadow as your common encounters. They are NOT worth it. Wraith's Shadow is good for solo or mimics (if the tank doesn't have the dmg). 70% of the Soulweaver powers are BAD, and from that 70% only 2 or 3 you will use them for ONE boss.
The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
2
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Come on, you know they don't play Soulweaver, not even one of them "elite" chosens to play the alphas. What kind of soulweaver would agreed with this shhiit?
Actually, 3 of the beta testers all play Soulbringer. But if you think that every single piece of feedback given by players was implemented than I have some things I want to sell you. Also if you think that they have the exactly same opinion as you with regards to the changes, I am afraid you would be disappointed.
Comments
Have issue with the shield, remove it all together for all I personally care. But nullifying players investment into a class by making it bottom tier is what happens again and again. Not everyone can invest the time for different classes, nor everyone want to play different classes each time a "balance pass" comes.
If there are not enough resources to maintain uniqueness, like we see in practice in the tab mechanics, then just normalize the rest of the powers and be done with it. At this point, when everything is "streamlined" maybe it's just better to treat classes as cosmetics rather than see people disappointed in their class choice or others whine how the neighbor's grass is so so greener.
Class diversity requires content to support the need for that uniqueness, different content mechanics where different classes or aspects of those roles excel. If in the limited relevant content that the devs can make, the support for those uniqueness can't be made, there will be always a more fitting class for the task. So either all the relevant class should be able to perform the needed aspects of the role, e.g. mitigation / shield, DoT heal, burst heal, and so on, either by setting class feats, loadouts or what not, or they all can be equally bad at similar aspects. That is until that uniqueness can be properly supported, if at all.
This is not the optimal outcome, very very far from it, but it is also not the worst. PLayers leaving the game because the class they put so much time in got a "balance pass" is the worst.
They neutered the ability to heal - a flat nerf from the beginner healers up to the top - by a significant margin. If I say the ability to heal is halved to the live version, it would be an understatement.
In most cases there indeed is a limited possibility to heal a target you marked prior the battle, but otherwise - in a real life scenario - a healer no longer can outperform a healing potion. As a healing potion is for the majority of the players not enough to stay alive in any dungeon/trial, devs' intention must have roots in the desire to see another wave of desperate players hopelessly dying in some ten mods old content.
Either that, or they plan to remove the healer role completely, just did not bother to finish the job... I honestly cannot figure out any other possible reason why they did what they did.
All we can do now is wait and hope for the best. Maybe when it hit live they will post "Happy june's fool!".
And we will be like "oooohhhhh, oh hohoooo, you got us good there!".
Or we might get screw for the next 1 to 21 weeks.
Right now i know its for the "big surprise" in the roadmap but.. Pls don't tell me you murdered us for a new class.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
People running that trial on preview are in many ways special cases - and if we overlook the number of healing stones and scrolls used... they are still geared up to quite uncommon levels. And they are experienced players.
...healers in random queues were already often under-performing. Blame the lack of skill, being under-geared - it does not matter. The point is that with the upcoming changes in the best case scenario this aspect wont change, in the worst case it gets systematically much worse. Now add a massive nerf to the mixture.
Demogorgon once again will be a failure after a failure.
And I do not wish to see Demo neutered the same way as SVA - which was "fixed" by removing all sources of damage except one.
Yesterday i queued solo for the first time in a while as a healer and got edemo, at the end i had almost 23M healing done and the second healer had 2.8M, imagine that in mod 19.
They want to nerf end game so hard that they end up HAMSTER new to mid game players with the changes they make
I'm reminded of mod 16... You know, when they told us that they wanted to make healers relevant again (LOL!!! jokes on us!) When they were told over and over and over again, do NOT let this go live, there are too many problems, the scaling isn't right, too many bugs, it's not ready, people will quit the game en masse... and they didn't listen. And people quit the game en masse. And within weeks they were making changes to effectively undo what they had done, but by then, it was too late.
So, what have they learnt? Nothing, it seems.
How long after this launch before they make changes because healers are quitting en masse? Within 2 weeks is my bet. And will we have another twitch stream with them apologising to us again, telling us they are sorry they didn't listen to us, again. And promising that they'll make it better, again.
Co-Guild Leader
Ghost Templars L20
Alliance: Tyrs Paladium
Main: Cleric (Heals|DPS)
Alt: Warlock
The whole concept of healing needed fine-tuning, and the fine-tuning was once again done with a nuke. And when that brought an unexpected result, they threw another one.
Now,... lets just sit and watch the world burn, that is all we can do anyway.
Soulweave: So, i love the class and role, but i can't get in trials cuz im a soulweaver and ppl only want pallyheals and in some cases DCs.. Can you give us more magnitudes or change the unused powers? Thanks.
Devs: Ok, so you want us to nerf pallyheals and DCs? you got it.
SW: What? That's not what i mea--
Devs: Its ok, we got you back. And here, some shields.
SW: Wow, thanks but--
Devs: But we need to nerf your mags.
SW: ...
Devs: And since we are here.. BOOM.. Full rework.
SW: I just wanted some more mag--
Devs: But the powers suck, there's a status quo , you know?
SW: Pls, just stop..
And even:
Random Dps: I have 200k power and still get outdps by a 100k random dps class, can you increase my mags?
Devs: Got it, nerfs incoming.
Now, if my theory is correct, we need to ask this way:
"Tried X encounter first with 100K power and then 150K power and the difference is almost none, can you please check it out?"
There we ain't naming other classes so the risk of a nerf is less.
Disclaimer: The power used in the examples are just to help the example be a example. Also, is mostly a joke to kill time.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
Was it boring before the cure system? And now? More boring. You don't like it more.
First i will say it bluntly:
I hate so much the new soulweaver. We told you it was wrong and yet you lauched it. Tried a Lomm, if Revitalize don't crit its a real pain or imposible. And can't use the tab mechanic there cuz its probably buggy. Most time i need to spam the tab to mark the target. Soulstorm particles are so low i only know it stoped its efect cuz i see my team getting beated. Lifespark heal is so sad most of the times i forgot it exist. The buffs are low, short and with holy long CDs. The mags are so low, runing shield ain't that worth even while doing something without a pallyheal. The kit, class features and feats are just sad, so your "diversity" failed.
Now, the polite way:
I appreciate that you took the time to try to make the soulweaver something good, but sadly it didn't work out as you expected. My recommendation is that the next time you want to make a remake, first create a thread about it to get feedback BEFORE you do any change, to avoid a mayority of rage.
In other note, i would appreciate if you could make a post like the "tank" one, explaining better why this changes and/or the healing formula. Kinda hate having tons and tons of crit if i don't even know if it actually works like everyone say.
With mixed feelings, a soulweaver.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
i hope yall listen next time
The devs sure did a great job with this adjustment.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
That said, I agree, the changes are terrible.
we should be used to it by now
> (Quote)
> Random CoDG is a terrible way to measure healing because there will be many players there who don't know that augment companions are generally better and so they use active companions. When these active companions die by falling from the platform and are automatically resurrected, their full HP value (generally over 500k) is counted towards the owner's healing amount in the board. And this happens over and over again. It was very common to see DPS/Tanks being "fake top healers" in random CoDG even before M19 due to this.
>
> That said, I agree, the changes are terrible.
mine wasnt random, my friends and i agreed to test my healing out and everyone had augments or xunas
anyways targettibg with tab is still severely bugged. lifespark is unintuitive and its never done any of the important inspirits. Somehow even though i did reserve my heals for the bursts i never got my divinity back to full.
the support spells aka warlocks bargain felt like i was doing nothing at the cost of removing my ability to do 1000 magnitude heal,
rangers could shield better than me so feypact, although severely underpowered and slow,was the better optiob,
the pillar of powers cooldown is so high for an effect that is so unimpactful thatits no longer in my slots
tried it in bel, its best with vampiric embrace, soulstorm, and revitalize and found myself replacing revitalize with, shockingly, dreadtheft just so that i could wait out my divinity back up while feeling like i was doing something and ended up single target healing my party more
it wasnt fun, it was exhausting, it was an arbiter cleric who chose healing spells
Every other power is useless because its bad or because u have a palla in the party and u have to change your feats or has a 1 hour cooldown....
I was a ranger, having real fun with my build switching stances with blades and arrows with many encounters but now its just melee at-wills with some encounter every min or so. not fun. changed to warlock, now this lol just at wills again.
The game is not fun anymore, just boring using At-wills all the time.
-Warlock doesnt have a good AoE heal
-Doesnt give good shields as a palla
+Warlocks heals good a single target
I dont know, for a 10 ppl trial, not good, not fun....
The basic problem is the same as it has always been. Lack of proper design. I nearly gave up NW altogether on first trying when I came across the antique method of a separate screen mode for certain actions (using ALT). This is simply bad and lazy programming. From that acorn so much else springs - the near impossibility of targeting a group member who needs healing, and all the emphasis on AOE healing that results, for instance. A fundamental lack of design has had a huge influence on all subsequent design. It would be so easy to dedicate keys to target group members, but they won't do it. There's some sort of bone-headed philosophy behind it (we don't want to copy WoW??). So now we have a mechanism for targeting someone (as long as they stand still for long enough and you don't want to change it) which must rate as one of the clunkiest ever, and three different actions for the same key. This is simply crazy. How did such proposals ever see the light of day? Did nobody say 'Stop! let's just have a simple way to target another player, then we can free up all these 'mechanics' and put something useful in their place'?
I love healing, but it was so unforgiving during levelling that I avoided it, and only started in endgame. Now it seems it has to be learned all over again. Can I be bothered? Given that the new expansion is also so depressing to look at, and so uninteresting to play, my expectation of continuing once house arrest is a thing of the past is very slight.
Got my rotation ready (just the same 3 encounters...), discovered how to reduce the amount of soulweave burn while keeping the team alive and started to let everyone die if they run ahead of the team or stand next to the tank for more than 5-10 seconds (cuz they might have lag). So i feel pretty confident with my new play style.
Only waiting to next patch to see if i need to change something on my feedback.
Btw, i do like that you forced the ppl to start playing smarter.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
THE SOULSTORM AND THE LIFESPARK ARE BARELY VISIBLE THAT SOMETIMES I HAVE TO CAST IT TWICE BC I WASNT SURE IF IT WAS CASTED IR IF I BUGGED OUT
LIFESPARK TARGETTING BUGGED AND ITS CODING SUCKS THAT IT HEALS VERY DELIBERATELY SLOW WHEN U WANT IT TO TARGET AND DO SOMETHING ELSE
IF U WANTED SMARTER PLAYS YOU SHOULD HAVE KEPT THE OLD SOULSPARK CHART AT LEAST I COULD SEE AND CALCULATE HOW MUCH SPARKS I ACTUALLY HAVE OR AM GAINING
COOLDOWNS FOR PILLAR OF POWER AND WRAITH SHADOW IS SO BAD THAT ITS NOT ON MY ROTATIONS BC I DO ALOT OF WAITING AS A WARLOCK NOW WHAT DO U WANT ME TO DO
THE SHIELD OR HOT AS FEAT IS POINTLESS. YOU WANT US TO BUY ANOTHER LOADOUT OR ELSE ITS DETRIMENTAL TO PLAY WITH PALAS SO ITS ALWAYS SAFER FOR HOT. MAKE IT NOT REPLACE SHIELDS OR DELETE ALL CONTENT WHO NEEDS SHIELDS AND MAKE EACH HEALER HEAL DIFFERENTLY, NOT WITH THE SAME S HITTY TARGETTING AND SH ITTY AOE
STOP ATTEMPTING TO MAKE WARLOCK A DPS HEAL CLASS IF UR CONTENT IS NOT DESIGNED AROUND IT BEING VIABLE. 20 MAGNITUDE FOR 10 SOULWEAVE???? USELESS FEATURE. GAIN MORE SOULWEAVE THE MORE YOU ATTACK BUT ITS SUPER LOW U CANT NOTICE IT???? USELESS FEATURE.
TRY TO RELEASE A VERSION OF UR OWN GUIDE AS TO HOW TO MAKE WARLOCK EFFECTIVE. TELL US WHAT U WANT FROM US. ITS SUCKS TO BE WARLOCK RN I DONT THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW AWFUL IT RLY IS WHEN OUR CORE CLASS MECHANICS WITH THE LIFESPARK IS SEVERELY SLOW TO PLAY WITH THATBIT CANT REACTIVELY HEAL WHEN NECESSARY. TELL US HOW U WANT THIS CLASS TO BE PLAYED. IM JUST SPAMMING VAMPIRIC EMBRACE AND ITS SO USELEDS WHEN THERES NO ENEMNY AROUNF. EVERY HEALER CLASS RN ISPLAYED LIKE A WARLOCK WITH THE AOE HEAL AROUND SELF ITSELF AND THE HIGH SINGLE TARGET HEAL EXCEPT FOR THE WARLOCK ITSELF WHO STRUGGLES WITH ALL THOSE ASPECTS BC WE NEED TO DAMAGE SOMETHING TO GIVE SUBPAR HEALS, WE NEED THE SHIFT DPS CLASS TO STAY IN ONE SMALL SPACE TO GIVE OKAY AOE HEALS THAT WE CANT SPAM ANYMORE, THE WAELOCKS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THE CHANGES JUST HAVENT OLAYED ANOUGH OF THE OLD WARLOCK TO KNOW WHATS GOOD FOR IT. EVERY TRIAL WILL NOW STILL WANT A CLERIC AND A PALA. WARLOCKS ARE STILL UNDERPERFORMING. WARLOCKS NEED TO HAVE A CORE GAME DESIGN THAT IS UNDER OUR CONTROL. WE NEED A STABLE AOE HEAL THAT IS UNDER OUR CONTROL. IF YOU WANT SMARTER PLAYS, MAKE THINGS BE UNDER OUR CONTROL. FIX YOUR BUGS AND CODE THE GAME BETTER. THIS ISNT AGAINST YOU, I AM A PLAYER AND THIS SHOULD BE LISTENED TO.
THE CHANEGS TO HEALING ARE ONLY AMAZING FOR THE CLERICS RN, WHO DONT HAVE TO SPAM TAB. BUT IT DOESNT WORK THE SAME WHEN U SPEND THE SAME HIGH <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> AMOUJT 9F DIVINITY FOR SUBPAR HEALS
ILL BE EXPECTING EXPLANATIONS, WE DESERVE TO KNOW UR GAME DESIGN PHILOSOPHIES
Come on, you know they don't play Soulweaver, not even one of them "elite" chosens to play the alphas. What kind of soulweaver would agreed with this shhiit?
I did play templock and the soulweaver, and after i give them plenty of feedback to revert some of the rework or make a new one that would be usefull and fun, i finally needed to accept that we (soulweaver) are SHHIIIIITT for them.
As templocks we could do everything, it was the perfect support.
Then, with soulweaver we mostly have our buffs/debuffs as passives and then healing. And most of the debuffs came from the CURSES they said WE LEFT BEHIND. And yes, it was a 5% debuff, but at least it could be almost permanent thanks to life bind or harrowstorm. And healing wasn't a pain even with soul recontruction.
Now, we have this monster, and not in the good way.
Lifespark it's mostly a vanity pet from zelda.
Tab works most of the times (the mark) but there are times when you don't know if you mark it, and the channeling takes even longer to activate. No kidding, i press it one, leave it and then i see i heal the target. A pain to do, but still better than Soul Reconstruction.
HoT are SHHIIIIT, damn low and feels like they take forever to activate.
Shield? PFFFF, just use infernal barrier.
Vampire Embrace is cool but almost don't even use it. Why? Target and no side effect for general battles.
PoP? Only use it for Trob fight cuz most ppl don't have enough hp, same with Soul Barrier. And after that i change it.
Revitalize is damn bad but at least i can use it more often if i can keep the barriers up. Soulstorm its the same and only use it as emergency. And damn, both powers are crrraaaaap.
Class features? Only soulbound is "good" enough to use.
Feats? Trust me or not, i tested playing with only faypact/hellpact and Soul Reclamation and then with the mix of others.... With only those 2 or with 5 you don't feel any change. Meaning the rest of the feats are USELESS.
So, whats the idea? Here is my theory.
Templock was mostly a dmg/healer/buff/debuff, they needed to change everything in mod 16 but couldn't get rid of it since most ppl was playing it as a "healer", so they created Soulweaver.
Tried to make it the closest to templock but failed. Luckly for them, warlocks fans found a way to make it usefull for MOST content and started to love it after a long time.
Now, they wanted to make a new one cuz THEY FEELED that we wasn't enjoing our gameplay due to blue bars and burst heals.
Soulweaver wasn't "good" for some trials, but it was a class that required a good team to be abble to shine.
So, they decided it was rework time. But hey, we can't overshadow DCs or OPs so we have double nerfs and a whole new kit of powers that are BAD and need to be learned from 0.
I would love if they change PoP to an active aura around the warlock and make the powers, class features and feats synergice with it. That would make us more viable and usefull.
I WANT to believe they are trying their best to make the warlock a good healer but all this just tell me "just make a OP or DC".
Already "learned" how to heal and the most "efficient" rotation, but i hate it.
On other note, I don't care anymore if i don't get to top healer in the chart. With this changes im more concerned about not letting their life go down with infernal barrier, that way you worrie less about healing. Which actually makes the game harder cuz you are jumping all over the place and running from side to side to get a good aim.
I do let die the ones that run ahead without the tank, and my god its fun. They run ahead like nothing changed and not even use healing items thinking i will rush to save them, and im like "LOL, no thank you, i want to save my soulweave for when the team gets here". I would start saving HAMSTER tons of AD if i where you, they might change an Armor Ench to replenish soulweave or something like that.. If there is Eclipse for stamina, we can also dream.
And for those that for some reason want to try Soulweaver for the first time, DO NOT use PoP nor Wraith's Shadow as your common encounters. They are NOT worth it. Wraith's Shadow is good for solo or mimics (if the tank doesn't have the dmg). 70% of the Soulweaver powers are BAD, and from that 70% only 2 or 3 you will use them for ONE boss.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour