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New Random Queue system

zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
edited May 2020 in Player Feedback (PC)
Feedback/Suggestion:

10,000 rAD - Random Trial Queue (5,000 for repeat runs by same character)
10,000 rAD - Random Epic Dungeon Queue (5,000 for repeat runs by same character)
10,000 rAD - Random Skirmish Queue (5,000 for repeat runs by same character)
10,000 rAD - Random Dungeon Queue (5,000 for repeat runs by same character)

Healer/Tank/DPS need bonus: 5,000 rAD
Epic Dungeon Bonus: Each epic dungeon awards additional rAD equal to the enemy ratings
Trial Bonus: Each Trial run awards 1,000 AD plus a 25% chance to drop a Strong Box key (limit 1 per account per day).

Notable differences from our current system: The Random queues can be skipped. Trials & Dungeons can be specifically selected by a team and will still give some reward. LoMM gives +18,000 rAD, ToMM gives +30,000 rAD, IC gives +35,000 rAD based on enemy ratings. Additionally, the random queue values encourage running multiple characters.

Comments

  • nooneatzanooneatza Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    I don't usually post in threads related to random q's and rad, but i feel like i gotta:

    How do you manage to not have enough rad so you ask for more?
    This is an MMO, you can't hit your daily limit with 20 minutes of content running per day, but also, if you're a guy with no life(like me for example), you can't not swim in rough ad.
    Just run your randoms and then some content on the side, if you dont have enough time in a day...so be it, i mean, can't have an MMO where you get stuff by not playing no?
  • oldtimer#7525 oldtimer Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    The game has a massive problem with AD inflation and you are suggesting that even more low effort to obtain, massive amounts of AD be created. Not a good idea.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    Are you asking for less RAD for each run in exchange for running whatever queue you want multiple times with different toons? Seems like players would need to do more runs to hit they daily cap.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    It comes to slightly more runs to obtain the same AD as today, but with some extra freedom and variety. A new player running low level dungeon actually makes a hair more. A player running an advanced dungeon would gain a little more. Players who never use random could still hit max if they play a lot.

    Right now, you can run RTQ + REDQ + rSkirmish and hit 100,000 rAD.
    In the example above it would give 30,000 rAD + the difficulty level of the dungeon (usually 10,000 ish), +1,000 real AD, and a 25% chance at a key. Overall its a bit less. It would require running MEs, a higher dungeon, an AD booster, an extra run, or something for the average player to hit cap. It indirectly expands the cap too by offering RTQ awards that are not rAD. It would not lead to inflation or deflation.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,417 Arc User
    gradii said:

    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.

    It is very relevant because the cap is a daily cap and not an earning cap. Not everyone can play to earn 100K every day but they could play to earn 700K in the weekend and earn next to nothing for the rest of the week.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 669 Arc User
    A "Radical Idea" here would be to get rid of random q's completely. Put rAD in the final dungeon chest that is appropriate to the difficulty and duration of the dungeon. Give us the choice of which dungeons to do for the rewards. If some of the dungeons do not get run, well maybe Cryptic needs to improve the dungeon or the rewards for the dungeon.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,417 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    kharkov58 said:

    A "Radical Idea" here would be to get rid of random q's completely. Put rAD in the final dungeon chest that is appropriate to the difficulty and duration of the dungeon. Give us the choice of which dungeons to do for the rewards. If some of the dungeons do not get run, well maybe Cryptic needs to improve the dungeon or the rewards for the dungeon.

    It is not a radical idea. I have been saying RQ is the worst idea they made since before RQ was in preview.
    And, I still refuse to do RQ. I probably did less than 5 times since it was live.
    What you described is basically what it was before RQ was live.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    gradii said:

    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.

    It is very relevant because the cap is a daily cap and not an earning cap. Not everyone can play to earn 100K every day but they could play to earn 700K in the weekend and earn next to nothing for the rest of the week.
    At level 80 with enough item level for RTQ and REDQ, you can run both and hit 100k just from that.

    Lower level earnings are the issue.

    It is not a radical idea. I have been saying RQ is the worst idea they made since before RQ was in preview.
    And, I still refuse to do RQ. I probably did less than 5 times since it was live.
    What you described is basically what it was before RQ was live.


    Now this is a comment someone did not think through at all from the perspective of game design, or did not explain well.

    Random queue is required to keep pug queues running at all. the ONLY way to go without it is to remove the queue system entirely and make people go to the dungeon direct like early WoW.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,417 Arc User
    edited May 2020
    gradii said:

    gradii said:

    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.

    It is very relevant because the cap is a daily cap and not an earning cap. Not everyone can play to earn 100K every day but they could play to earn 700K in the weekend and earn next to nothing for the rest of the week.
    At level 80 with enough item level for RTQ and REDQ, you can run both and hit 100k just from that.

    When I said "not everyone can play to earn 100K every day", I mean many people cannot play everyday. They have other things to do in their daily life. However, they may be able to spend a lot of time in the weekend to earn 700K or more.
    gradii said:




    It is not a radical idea. I have been saying RQ is the worst idea they made since before RQ was in preview.
    And, I still refuse to do RQ. I probably did less than 5 times since it was live.
    What you described is basically what it was before RQ was live.


    Now this is a comment someone did not think through at all from the perspective of game design, or did not explain well.

    Random queue is required to keep pug queues running at all. the ONLY way to go without it is to remove the queue system entirely and make people go to the dungeon direct like early WoW.
    As far as I concern, it worked very well before RQ was introduced. New player may disagree but is the current RQ system better for new players? I don't think so. I guess you have no idea how that worked before RQ. RQ was live for only 2 to 3 years. Right now, you can still go to dungeon directly. I do that all the time (private queue) except you can't earn rAD like RQ. You don't need RQ to get PUG queue running. It ran before RQ was introduced. To make pug queue runs better, what it needs is incentive and not RQ.

    Post edited by plasticbat on
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User
    gradii said:

    gradii said:

    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.

    It is very relevant because the cap is a daily cap and not an earning cap. Not everyone can play to earn 100K every day but they could play to earn 700K in the weekend and earn next to nothing for the rest of the week.
    At level 80 with enough item level for RTQ and REDQ, you can run both and hit 100k just from that.

    Lower level earnings are the issue.

    It is not a radical idea. I have been saying RQ is the worst idea they made since before RQ was in preview.
    And, I still refuse to do RQ. I probably did less than 5 times since it was live.
    What you described is basically what it was before RQ was live.


    Now this is a comment someone did not think through at all from the perspective of game design, or did not explain well.

    Random queue is required to keep pug queues running at all. the ONLY way to go without it is to remove the queue system entirely and make people go to the dungeon direct like early WoW.
    prior to the implementation of Random Queue, this was possible. Every dungeon had a Front Door. Players that wanted to run with their friends, but could not queue because they were over the level cap could only get in by gathering the party and going through the door.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 280 Arc User


    prior to the implementation of Random Queue, this was possible. Every dungeon had a Front Door. Players that wanted to run with their friends, but could not queue because they were over the level cap could only get in by gathering the party and going through the door.

    Random Queue isn't a bad thing, but removing the option to go directly to dungeon? what purpose can that possible serve? no positive one.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,417 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    gradii said:

    gradii said:

    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.

    It is very relevant because the cap is a daily cap and not an earning cap. Not everyone can play to earn 100K every day but they could play to earn 700K in the weekend and earn next to nothing for the rest of the week.
    At level 80 with enough item level for RTQ and REDQ, you can run both and hit 100k just from that.

    Lower level earnings are the issue.

    It is not a radical idea. I have been saying RQ is the worst idea they made since before RQ was in preview.
    And, I still refuse to do RQ. I probably did less than 5 times since it was live.
    What you described is basically what it was before RQ was live.


    Now this is a comment someone did not think through at all from the perspective of game design, or did not explain well.

    Random queue is required to keep pug queues running at all. the ONLY way to go without it is to remove the queue system entirely and make people go to the dungeon direct like early WoW.
    prior to the implementation of Random Queue, this was possible. Every dungeon had a Front Door. Players that wanted to run with their friends, but could not queue because they were over the level cap could only get in by gathering the party and going through the door.
    What you described (wait in front of the door) is prior to the implementation of queue, not RQ which relatively, is a new thing.
    Yes, that took forever (someone needed to arrive there physically and many did not have mount in those day ...) and you could only wait for one dungeon.

    We could queue to go to dungeon directly without waiting in front of the actual door before RQ.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    gradii said:

    gradii said:

    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.

    It is very relevant because the cap is a daily cap and not an earning cap. Not everyone can play to earn 100K every day but they could play to earn 700K in the weekend and earn next to nothing for the rest of the week.
    At level 80 with enough item level for RTQ and REDQ, you can run both and hit 100k just from that.

    Lower level earnings are the issue.

    It is not a radical idea. I have been saying RQ is the worst idea they made since before RQ was in preview.
    And, I still refuse to do RQ. I probably did less than 5 times since it was live.
    What you described is basically what it was before RQ was live.


    Now this is a comment someone did not think through at all from the perspective of game design, or did not explain well.

    Random queue is required to keep pug queues running at all. the ONLY way to go without it is to remove the queue system entirely and make people go to the dungeon direct like early WoW.
    prior to the implementation of Random Queue, this was possible. Every dungeon had a Front Door. Players that wanted to run with their friends, but could not queue because they were over the level cap could only get in by gathering the party and going through the door.
    What you described (wait in front of the door) is prior to the implementation of queue, not RQ which relatively, is a new thing.
    Yes, that took forever (someone needed to arrive there physically and many did not have mount in those day ...) and you could only wait for one dungeon.

    We could queue to go to dungeon directly without waiting in front of the actual door before RQ.
    Yes. That is what I said. Literally. The Front Door system was used before Random Queue was created, and it was turned off when The RQ was turned on. One reason was because it was no longer needed. The Front Doors were used when players wanted to run with a group that couldn't queue. Either because they (at least one of the party members anyways)were below the minimum level cap. or because they were above the maximum level cut-off. In these circumstances, a party could not queue to get in the dungeon. The only way to get in, for a too low, or too high toon was to gather the party and walk in. Which was no longer necessary, considering that the entire idea behind RQ was to get high level players into low level content. Also, IIRC, when you went in the Front Door, you could bypass the "Holly Trinity" Tank/Heals/3DPS party composition enforced by the queue.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User

    gradii said:

    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.

    It is very relevant because the cap is a daily cap and not an earning cap. Not everyone can play to earn 100K every day but they could play to earn 700K in the weekend and earn next to nothing for the rest of the week.
    This is already implented on weekly quests (not RAD), which lets people who can't play much on weekdays to be able to push thru their campaigns on weekends if that is the only time they have to play.

    As we all know, there is already and still too much AD flowing in game because of all the previous mishaps in game, and the 100k cap for RAD a day imo is already a generous amount.

    I think the point here is that they want people to login and play as much everyday, and not just on the weekends, while maintaining the balance for campaign progression and RAD influx in a state they find "acceptable".

    Honestly raising the RAD cap will just devalue AD more, and would most likely just increase the prices in everything and that would just be an "artificial" change.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,417 Arc User
    edited May 2020

    gradii said:

    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.

    It is very relevant because the cap is a daily cap and not an earning cap. Not everyone can play to earn 100K every day but they could play to earn 700K in the weekend and earn next to nothing for the rest of the week.
    This is already implented on weekly quests (not RAD), which lets people who can't play much on weekdays to be able to push thru their campaigns on weekends if that is the only time they have to play.

    As we all know, there is already and still too much AD flowing in game because of all the previous mishaps in game, and the 100k cap for RAD a day imo is already a generous amount.

    I think the point here is that they want people to login and play as much everyday, and not just on the weekends, while maintaining the balance for campaign progression and RAD influx in a state they find "acceptable".

    Honestly raising the RAD cap will just devalue AD more, and would most likely just increase the prices in everything and that would just be an "artificial" change.
    No, I did not ask for raising the cap at all.

    My comment was about I disagree with this statement "theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.".

    Weekend players can earn whatever they want over 100K daily refinement limit (e.g. 700K) and login once per day in weekday (without doing much) to refine that 700K.

    i.e. they can play 20 hours in the weekend to earn whatever rAD they want and login for one minute in the weekdays.

    Earning more than 100K rAD is very relevant regardless what the daily refinement cap is.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    gradii said:

    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.

    It is very relevant because the cap is a daily cap and not an earning cap. Not everyone can play to earn 100K every day but they could play to earn 700K in the weekend and earn next to nothing for the rest of the week.
    This is already implented on weekly quests (not RAD), which lets people who can't play much on weekdays to be able to push thru their campaigns on weekends if that is the only time they have to play.

    As we all know, there is already and still too much AD flowing in game because of all the previous mishaps in game, and the 100k cap for RAD a day imo is already a generous amount.

    I think the point here is that they want people to login and play as much everyday, and not just on the weekends, while maintaining the balance for campaign progression and RAD influx in a state they find "acceptable".

    Honestly raising the RAD cap will just devalue AD more, and would most likely just increase the prices in everything and that would just be an "artificial" change.
    Making the 100k AD per day into 700k AD per week wouldn't raise the cap tho.
  • agonistes#1431 agonistes Member Posts: 78 Arc User

    Feedback/Suggestion:

    10,000 rAD - Random Trial Queue (5,000 for repeat runs by same character)
    10,000 rAD - Random Epic Dungeon Queue (5,000 for repeat runs by same character)
    10,000 rAD - Random Skirmish Queue (5,000 for repeat runs by same character)
    10,000 rAD - Random Dungeon Queue (5,000 for repeat runs by same character)

    Healer/Tank/DPS need bonus: 5,000 rAD
    Epic Dungeon Bonus: Each epic dungeon awards additional rAD equal to the enemy ratings
    Trial Bonus: Each Trial run awards 1,000 AD plus a 25% chance to drop a Strong Box key (limit 1 per account per day).

    Notable differences from our current system: The Random queues can be skipped. Trials & Dungeons can be specifically selected by a team and will still give some reward. LoMM gives +18,000 rAD, ToMM gives +30,000 rAD, IC gives +35,000 rAD based on enemy ratings. Additionally, the random queue values encourage running multiple characters.

    All this would do is have people farm RSQ over and over and overe. There's no incentive to play anything else. The average completion times have to be taken into consideration when it comes to the rAD rewards. Skirmishes, on average, take like 5 minutes to complete with a competent group. People will just take advantage of that.
  • agonistes#1431 agonistes Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    kharkov58 said:

    A "Radical Idea" here would be to get rid of random q's completely. Put rAD in the final dungeon chest that is appropriate to the difficulty and duration of the dungeon. Give us the choice of which dungeons to do for the rewards. If some of the dungeons do not get run, well maybe Cryptic needs to improve the dungeon or the rewards for the dungeon.

    But, this is an MMO and that won't happen. The RQs create variety on both the vertical and horizontal spectrum, which is why it's such a popular idea in almost every MMO.

    Your suggestion would lead to one outcome: min maxing. It always happens, regardless of MMO. It's just a numbers game after all, people will boil it down to the fastest completion times versus rewards and when Cryptic finds out about the min maxing they'll nerf it and the theorycrafters will move to the next best min max reward. It would create a system where people run the same exact dungeon over and over again. Then people would complain there's no variety.

    The real culprit it this: Give us the choice of which dungeons to do for the rewards.

    There wouldn't be a real choice because there's ALWAYS going to be a disparity in content rewards, there's no perfect balance; therefore, it's inherently flawed.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User

    gradii said:

    While I'd like players below level 70 to be able to earn a bit more AD I'm not sure this is the right way to do so. theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.

    It is very relevant because the cap is a daily cap and not an earning cap. Not everyone can play to earn 100K every day but they could play to earn 700K in the weekend and earn next to nothing for the rest of the week.
    This is already implented on weekly quests (not RAD), which lets people who can't play much on weekdays to be able to push thru their campaigns on weekends if that is the only time they have to play.

    As we all know, there is already and still too much AD flowing in game because of all the previous mishaps in game, and the 100k cap for RAD a day imo is already a generous amount.

    I think the point here is that they want people to login and play as much everyday, and not just on the weekends, while maintaining the balance for campaign progression and RAD influx in a state they find "acceptable".

    Honestly raising the RAD cap will just devalue AD more, and would most likely just increase the prices in everything and that would just be an "artificial" change.
    No, I did not ask for raising the cap at all.

    My comment was about I disagree with this statement "theres a 100k account refine cap so, however much RAD you have is irrelevant after that number.".

    Weekend players can earn whatever they want over 100K daily refinement limit (e.g. 700K) and login once per day in weekday (without doing much) to refine that 700K.

    i.e. they can play 20 hours in the weekend to earn whatever rAD they want and login for one minute in the weekdays.

    Earning more than 100K rAD is very relevant regardless what the daily refinement cap is.
    Ah yes i misunderstood. I thought you were advocating to remove the 100k RAD cap per day and turn it into 700k RAD per week instead. Over all, this might look like there is no difference, but there is. getting 700k instantly at the start of the week instead of 100k a day can be problematic in the long run.

    I only mentioned raising the RAD cap above 100k will just make everyone try to get whatever that cap is, and in turn can just cause more burn out, with its value being less than it is now.
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 669 Arc User
    The current random Q system is inherently flawed as well, creating a system where people are kicked for being slow, or lower level toons never even seeing a monster because the race is on to get your AD as soon as you get in the door.

    You are not ever going to get a perfect system. If some dungeons are not being run, it is a flaw with the dungeon or the rewards.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,153 Arc User
    kharkov58 said:

    The current random Q system is inherently flawed as well, creating a system where people are kicked for being slow, or lower level toons never even seeing a monster because the race is on to get your AD as soon as you get in the door.

    That isn't a flaw in the system. It is a flaw in the players.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • agonistes#1431 agonistes Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    kharkov58 said:

    The current random Q system is inherently flawed as well, creating a system where people are kicked for being slow, or lower level toons never even seeing a monster because the race is on to get your AD as soon as you get in the door.

    You are not ever going to get a perfect system. If some dungeons are not being run, it is a flaw with the dungeon or the rewards.

    You realize that first thing would happen regardless of randomization or not. It would only not be a thing with premades/statics. In the before times in MMOs, we'd yell outside of the instance door for a group and that's how we found people to fill groups, we'd also kick them if they weren't up to snuff.

    This first thing isn't a flaw in the random queue system, like greywynd stated, it's a flaw in the players. Those things happened way before random dungeons were even a thing in any MMO.
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