Remove vote to kick.

xenocide

Just wondering what people think about the remove vote to kick option. (Or maybe limit it to special circumstances such as a player hasn't pressed any buttons for 90 seconds)

I ran a VT yesterday, our tank was a bit squishy and had some trouble holding agro. Might have been partly our top dps' fault as he would run ahead of the party pulling multiple groups and a few times die from it.
1/2 way through the dungeon a vote to kick out tank pops up, reason: harrassment.
On my screen the tank hasn't said anything in chat so I vote no and we continue and end up completing the dungeon.
Afterwards the tanks says "thanks guys, my first time through"

Man am I glad he didn't get kicked, but this got me wondering is this a really a good feature in the game? How often does this feature get abused by players who want to speed run their randoms rather than actually play with someone new?

plasticbat

It needs 3 votes to kick. At least one other player in your party voted against it and knew the "reason" was false.
If there were 3 'bad' players in the party and all 3 wanted to 'abuse' it, it was a bad party regardless.

oldtimer

You aren't seriously going to suggest that people join random queues because they want to play with complete strangers and not because they just want to get it over with and get their daily AD..... right?

The vote kick was well deserved, what reason was chosen is irrelevant as all of the available options are stupid and nobody looks at them anyway. You have a player performing badly and not communicating at all, you then find out they were completely new and didn't say anything and you think not kicking them was the right choice? This mentality is precisely why nobody likes or has any patience in random queues.

You have 2 options - perform well and talk as much ( or as little ) as you like or ask for advice if you think you will perform poorly or have no experience, anything else is disrespectful to the other people in your group. Randoms are not your buddies, they are not NPCs you can simply ignore and nobody wants to deal with you while they are trying to farm their daily AD so just do your job, immediately ask for advice if you can't or don't go in with randoms in the first place.

namelesshero347

Some players do not speak english or unaware of chat or too shy to chat. Whatever the reason, such kicking isn't a problem because most players won't go along with the kick if the run can be completed. The kick vote initiator is just wasting his vote.

greywynd

I was in VT the other night. The first fight our tank, a paladin, sat around near the fight on his tyrannosaur, not contributing, not saying anything. This continued until we got to the stairs. He was the first one up them and engaged the mob. Seemed okay from that point.

Until we got into the the courtyard with the portals. Then he started swearing at everyone because we weren't doing it the way he insisted. He left just before I initiated the vote kick.

So, no. There is a place for it beyond being idle for 90 seconds.

namelesshero347

When someone is sitting at the campfire, presumably waiting to be kicked, I prefer to wait until the group is about to enter the boss fight before kicking. No need to reward these players with a swift kick.

gradii

I'd rather they remove the timer which prevents you from kicking in the first 10 minutes. 45% of all my random pug dungeons have a "healer" who is a bot. they run ahead of the tank, aggro EVERYTHING, NEVER cast any heals, and wipe us, and we cant be rid of them becuase of the timer.

greywynd

And then the abuse swings the other way. Which is why there is a timer.

gradii

greywynd said:

And then the abuse swings the other way. Which is why there is a timer.

I completely agree, I've been on the recieving end of kick abuse in the past in other games.

FFXIV doesnt have a timer outside the first 5 minutes of a dungeon, but they have way more active GMs to take care of abusive players.

They are quite strict about toxic player behavior there.

zimxero

I'd like to see an "Auto-kick" function when a player does not load in to the random within 60 seconds. You still need vote to kick for when a player just walks off in real life. Some just dont care.. or have a mini-emergency or decide to take a buisness call in the middle of a run. To me... that's why we need vote to kick. The most aggressive kicking I have seen in game is at the end of Tong. Players would try over and over to kill Ras Nsi in randoms and fail... and resort to kicking whatever player they thought was not pulling their weight. I was kicked twice here. I hope they took the time to look at the DPS chart when they were done to see me on top. On the other hand.. they probably gave up.

gradii

what's Tong? is it in NWO?

Also kick function as long as it exists will be abused by idiots, which just means we need decent GMs to enforce kicking for good reasons only.

In every MMO with any kind of challenge in the content ever, some people will insist on more dps than is actually required because they cant/dont trust others to learn and do mechanics properly. I finished a Cradle of the Death God this morning where we had half the party die a few times, given that our dps was WAY lower than it would have been had no one died- if no one had died we'd have wiped the floor with it in record time.

greywynd

Tomb of the Nine Gods; Chult's dungeon.

gradii

greywynd said:

Tomb of the Nine Gods; Chult's dungeon.

When do you unlock that, I'm still working on getting the stage after the first one since I went for a boon right away

plasticbat

gradii said:

greywynd said:

Tomb of the Nine Gods; Chult's dungeon.

When do you unlock that, I'm still working on getting the stage after the first one since I went for a boon right away

Reach the top of advancement: Omu: Slaying Serpents.

greywynd

Omu opens the Cradle.

plasticbat

greywynd said:

Omu opens the Cradle.

Opps! It is the middle of the advancement: Blessings of Ubtao (for TONG).

valdieron1

oldtimer#7525 said:

You aren't seriously going to suggest that people join random queues because they want to play with complete strangers and not because they just want to get it over with and get their daily AD..... right?

The vote kick was well deserved, what reason was chosen is irrelevant as all of the available options are stupid and nobody looks at them anyway. You have a player performing badly and not communicating at all, you then find out they were completely new and didn't say anything and you think not kicking them was the right choice? This mentality is precisely why nobody likes or has any patience in random queues.

You have 2 options - perform well and talk as much ( or as little ) as you like or ask for advice if you think you will perform poorly or have no experience, anything else is disrespectful to the other people in your group. Randoms are not your buddies, they are not NPCs you can simply ignore and nobody wants to deal with you while they are trying to farm their daily AD so just do your job, immediately ask for advice if you can't or don't go in with randoms in the first place.

Seriously? I would say YOUR statement reflects exactly why this game is turning to a zerg-fest for self-entitled elitists rather than a role-playing game. Just because the tank wasn't elite, you would kick him over the zergy DPS characters who obviously just want to get most kills and most damage without even considering if someone 'random' might have the most experience or elite build? Come on now. I say 'vote to kick' should have a few more reasons, like 'DPS is a tool who just wants most kills' or 'Won't stay within healer FOV'.
Please don't deter newer player base from playing or joining queues (more queues are better for the game!) just because more experienced 'elitist' characters don't like the way they play.

agonistes

xenocide#6119 said:

Just wondering what people think about the remove vote to kick option. (Or maybe limit it to special circumstances such as a player hasn't pressed any buttons for 90 seconds)



I ran a VT yesterday, our tank was a bit squishy and had some trouble holding agro. Might have been partly our top dps' fault as he would run ahead of the party pulling multiple groups and a few times die from it.

1/2 way through the dungeon a vote to kick out tank pops up, reason: harrassment.

On my screen the tank hasn't said anything in chat so I vote no and we continue and end up completing the dungeon.

Afterwards the tanks says "thanks guys, my first time through"



Man am I glad he didn't get kicked, but this got me wondering is this a really a good feature in the game? How often does this feature get abused by players who want to speed run their randoms rather than actually play with someone new?

Not signed and no support from me. There are plenty more reasons to keep the Vote to Kick feature than to remove it.

oldtimer

valdieron1 said:

Seriously? I would say YOUR statement reflects exactly why this game is turning to a zerg-fest for self-entitled elitists rather than a role-playing game. Just because the tank wasn't elite, you would kick him over the zergy DPS characters who obviously just want to get most kills and most damage without even considering if someone 'random' might have the most experience or elite build? Come on now. I say 'vote to kick' should have a few more reasons, like 'DPS is a tool who just wants most kills' or 'Won't stay within healer FOV'.
Please don't deter newer player base from playing or joining queues (more queues are better for the game!) just because more experienced 'elitist' characters don't like the way they play.

Nice job immediately going for the elitist insult.

There is nothing elitist about not letting entitled players waste the team's time. Yes, i said entitled players which is exactly what anyone who joins random parties and expects to finish the content without contributing / knowing how to contribute is. You are not entitled to my ( or anyone else's ) time or effort just because you decided to press the join queue button, especially as a *support* player. Do your job or get kicked, simple as that.

I'm not deterring anyone from joining queues, i'm pointing out that if you want to play with other people you have to treat them like people. Stop being a bum and start communicating, we all did it when we were new which is how we know it works.

roadkill

What you seem to be missing is that "random" queues don't pull from only those players who have selected "random" but also pulls from those who selected specific dungeons, who aren't necessarily there for the "ad" because there is no bonus ad from selecting specific dungeons from the queue options, only the chest at the end. Hopefully the queue system and the vote to kick is addressed to become more reasonable.

oldtimer

roadkill#6177 said:

What you seem to be missing is that "random" queues don't pull from only those players who have selected "random" but also pulls from those who selected specific dungeons, who aren't necessarily there for the "ad" because there is no bonus ad from selecting specific dungeons from the queue options, only the chest at the end. Hopefully the queue system and the vote to kick is addressed to become more reasonable.

How exactly is that aspect of random queue that everyone is well aware of relevant to the discussion? The chances of a significant number of the 5 or 10 players in content that is part of a random queue being in there because of directly queueing for that content are minimal, i dare say even abysmal. Mostly due to the fact that yes, direct queueing is not rewarding and if you want to directly queue into certain content to practice and learn or just to take your time going through it then you would obviously surely run with a pre-formed party. It makes no sense to expect 4 people you don't know to cater to you and your wishes / needs.....right?

One side of the argument is someone inexperienced refuses to communicate and that is acceptable when playing with strangers, my side of the argument is no that is not acceptable. In fact, if the person the OP mentioned directly queue'd into VT with the idea of learning it and DID NOT SAY A WORD in chat that makes them look even worse and the kick even more deserved.

They were singled out for a reason and no that reason isn't those meanie elitists / speed runners / insert other term here. Stop trying to think of excuses for people that do not deserve to be saved by any. Random queues are a plague but as long as they remain in the game and are the main way for new / less geared players to obtain AD ( and they are the main source of income for most ) then get used to respecting the time of the strangers that have to deal with you for half an hour.

krumple01

The thing is kicking party members or not kicking party members both have draw backs and the potential for abuse.

You can't solve this problem by removing. It will just shift the problem to another problem. The thing is Cryptic rarely ever thinks out the best solution, they go with simplistic solutions which don't completely fix the problem.

There are only a few options you can select for giving a reason why a party member should be kicked.

Offline
Afk
Abusive

but that doesn't cover all the possible reasons why you would vote kick. So someone can be accused of being abusive when that isn't the reason someone is calling for a vote kick.

I bet 9 times out of 10 the real reason someone is being vote kicked is their character isn't performing up to the party standards. But even if I'm wrong on the portion, it points out a fundamental need for tiered content that is more suitable to the progression of a character rather than giving them only one option which threatens failure for other players who are suited to the dungeon.

You can make excuses, if you don't want to fail, don't pug dungeons, always make a premade. Sure this is one solution but it's not the best solution for all. It's just sweeping the actual problem under the rug making this argument.

hustin1

I've been saying for ages that it was a mistake to remove "normal" vs. "epic" dungeons, that having at least two tiers was necessary for players new to the content to learn the ropes. I'm so glad that Chris came along and is finally pushing it through.

There are other reasons why someone new to the content might choose to stay quiet.
- They are paying attention to what the others are doing and trying to learn.
- They are worried that as soon as they say, "I've never done this dungeon before," BAM! they get kicked.
- They're not sure yet what questions to ask (questions don't generally arise between bosses, but only when you get to a boss fight).
- They might have no idea what the boss fight is even like and won't know what to ask until they've seen it at least once.
- They're simply (gasp!) shy.

Calling them "entitled" is a grossly unfair generalization. How would you like it if people who thought so little of new players were all derided as, I don't know, "callous", "condescending", or even "elitist"? Let's knock it off. Everyone is different.