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main tank troubles in m16+ & before
aovent
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 17 Arc User
Well it is most social one trouble is: in most of dungeons mobs have too low hp so mostly hdps pressing tank as: "we dont need you exept newest dungeon, you worthless go play healer or dps"
On practice they just running forth like crazy headless chickens & if they die they blaming supports who didnt raced them both performing their functions somehow. to be honest it ended us up with lost of players who have 0 basic ideas how to run dungeon in a group & also making them less reasons to use "flock annihilation aoe builds" ( what ofc costs to make).
& let tank in position of "nothing at all" by what those dpsers saying. Ending it with kinda less desire to tanking new content at all.
if dpsers will see that they are no longer "gods & monsters who dont need anyone" they will ne enforced to start learning how it is to play with team & dont treat supports like their slaves. This issue allready making insane amount of negative expirience for support-role.
Broken gameplay, broken nerves & etc. Most usually it comes from overgeared to endgame dps what thinks they can despite tank role "because they are so awesome" (not really- they dying lots too when aggroing too much flock).
This often creates a situations when you dont want to run with such typo & when its possible prefering to get new-heads to group who realising that they need to play like proper group.
Current state of this breaking entire concept of pve- group content. Im playing as dpser too but running in group... why most of others cannot do this aswell- strange question (explainable only by words: "they are idiots").
So making mobs in dungeons tougher will solve this matter for good... "after they died 4rth time per row they starting to get it right... most of cases. Also for now for this reason dungeons in NWO are mostly lame & theres allmos "you healer servant, chase us & heal us, what tank is- we never knew from the start"- its not how normal group should behave to make proper expirience.
On practice they just running forth like crazy headless chickens & if they die they blaming supports who didnt raced them both performing their functions somehow. to be honest it ended us up with lost of players who have 0 basic ideas how to run dungeon in a group & also making them less reasons to use "flock annihilation aoe builds" ( what ofc costs to make).
& let tank in position of "nothing at all" by what those dpsers saying. Ending it with kinda less desire to tanking new content at all.
if dpsers will see that they are no longer "gods & monsters who dont need anyone" they will ne enforced to start learning how it is to play with team & dont treat supports like their slaves. This issue allready making insane amount of negative expirience for support-role.
Broken gameplay, broken nerves & etc. Most usually it comes from overgeared to endgame dps what thinks they can despite tank role "because they are so awesome" (not really- they dying lots too when aggroing too much flock).
This often creates a situations when you dont want to run with such typo & when its possible prefering to get new-heads to group who realising that they need to play like proper group.
Current state of this breaking entire concept of pve- group content. Im playing as dpser too but running in group... why most of others cannot do this aswell- strange question (explainable only by words: "they are idiots").
So making mobs in dungeons tougher will solve this matter for good... "after they died 4rth time per row they starting to get it right... most of cases. Also for now for this reason dungeons in NWO are mostly lame & theres allmos "you healer servant, chase us & heal us, what tank is- we never knew from the start"- its not how normal group should behave to make proper expirience.
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As 25K+ Paladin Tank I experience the same. They Hit&Run to next Group and behave like a Tank. I tell them always they should play a Tank. If you ask "Pro's" they want you to do this. Only run AoE, run, AoE, run, AoE. You are not allowed to fight. Yes you're right - it's like a slave. I feel sometimes treated like I am a Bot or something like that.
Hello DPS we are here, we want play NW aswell. /wave
Real experience: Warlock drives in his Soul State 100 km/h through everything he see. Healer die. Tank = Hamster. It's a cold shower.
If you want to solve that issue. Biggest Problem is, that Tanks are simply to slow. Paladins don't even have dexterity. The 10% Speed Buff is out of fight. In reality with "Pro's" you are 100% infight. "Pro's" will say to you, "we don't wait for you." No wonder there is shortage of Tanks. You can solve that only by pressing 100% W, sometimes Q or R while running. That's reality.
-Enemies in low Content have far to less HP
-Tanks are far to slow
-If these "TANK-DD" die, there is no really punishment
& coolest thing is: they leaving healer behind so tank must decide: to lead flock from door to door to be in tempo or trying to keep healer safe (because soon as dps triggered mobs & ran away, so aggro placing on.... healer (knowing that in m16++ healing triggers agro too) if hes not fast enough. what ends in demise... & whining that supports are worthless.
From dps side as my gwf 2nd paragon it sounds like: "mobs will die from 2 punches not matetr running or not why must i search new aoe techniques & spent time & resourses"- its reminding of pre- m16 times when we ran with 1-2 combos whole pve thing.
As tank i can increase run-speed by some amount on gwf but its still will be in cost of surviveability& still not enough time to both race & make your functions
Some truth to your rants, overpowered dps/any role will just run ahead and kill mobs/ agro boss. When I am a tank or healer, if such dps is capable and able to stay alive, all the power to them. If they blamed me for their death, I would just brushed it off and move on. If you really want to enjoy NW, know that some players will upset you but it could easily be remedy by putting them on ignore and abandon instance and start a better run.
Second, i have a 23k IL Fighter and 21k Paladin and i run both as tanks, if some DPS thinks he can handle the whole dungeon by his lonesome, fine by me, i'll just follow the trail of corpses with the rest of the group to the point where he has to wait for us anyway. DPS that can't survive situations they create through their stupid actions can die and respawn, i might revive them once if i can, but that's it.
Third, if any DPS starts acting out in any form, he gets a cozy place on my ignore list, and if that's not enough a vote kick, there more then enough reasonable DPS out there to fill an open slot within moments... but i honestly can't recall a recent dungeon or skirmish run where i had to go that far.
Last but not least, as a tank with a high IL you should have no problem with finding a place in a solid guild or alliance, filled with people focused on working together as a team instead of against each other in group content.
That's exactly what I complain about? Is this some sort of military confusing techniques?
Ofcourse this don't happen in every game. If you want to say that, then I can admit it. That would be a gamebreaker. But as you admit yourself. It happens. And it's not rarely.
I don't know how to write it better that you can understand me better. I think it was distinct described. It's okay. But I dislike the feeling I need to be carried.
you must be hell lucky if u got adequate teams much often... mostly its just idiots who charging forward, messing all up, often dying & blaming all on supports. thing happening quite often unfortunately or ild not start this line: big alliances- often the same. "Paingiver goes up- brains going down, were only ones".
Well seeing what happens currently i cant agree with: "mobs allready got much enough hp"... so even low dmg tank with no combat pets (augment only) cleaning things way too easy alone... low level- like malabog, valindra& etc- clear but when same happens in middle tier... lets just say currently i cannot solo (with quite low dmg) only stuff with group mechanics or dps checks (done up to msp solo 0 deaths with few exeptions). With very low dmg setup...
So i was able to cutt through dryads & flocks of nature in msp alone with low dmg- showing their hp is pathetically low.
thing described in 2 words: "paingiver go on- brains turning off, supporters-.... race us if u can"...
in start post i scribed situations when dpsers managing to ruin even "door- to door" kiting.
they say mobs in any high dunges are tough & strong enough... then HOW im soloing msp on gwf juggernaut?
no dmg of dps, no surviveability of proper tank with 0 deaths? In proper balance they should shred me into pieces so il need to look for tank & healer or healer & dps & stop "showing off"...
srsly if i can do this & not only in msp- it means mobs are too squish...
whats is juggernaut? oldschool gwf feature from m15 resurrected with knowlege of m16. in group completely useless, effective only vs mobs & not strong ones. "zombie Extermination Crusader"
i technically not suppose to be able to solo it but its what im doing. number of deaths depents on laggs i met when kicked dryads archers
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From what I can understand you just have very bad experienced playing a tank. Yet you have not mentioned what tank class you play? Which my respond post above agree and disagree with. However @michael1979 above have offered you a tank build hopefully you find it useful.
I remember doing dungeons low level ones and the dps would die with out the tank and healer.
So ya I am totally confused on this topic. Just not sure there is any thing that can really back up against the claim that a tank or healer is not needed. Not even sure parties would say hey tank we do not need you.
I for one run dps and I for one enjoy having the tank getting beat on so i can do my job as a dps.