CoDG and CR is unhealthy for RTQ and REDQ

promin3nc3

Moderator edited title to remove the clickbait.

First of all, You have to understand that Queuing for RTQ and REDQ takes a long time (if you are not a tank or a healer, and if you don't search for players but getting 10 players for RTQ can be weary time consuming)

Now that i hope you understand that, let me talk about a Trial You added to the RTQ and a dungeon you added to REDQ in in the most recent mod, its called Cradle of The Death God and Castle Ravenloft.

Before anyone says anything i just want to say that Chult is my favorite campaign and i love this trial and Tomb Of The Nine Gods i really, really like the way that this dungeon and trial plays and the story behind it, but understand that im in the minority here.

Since this trial came to the RTQ i had the worst experience i ever had in a game before. Players constantly abandon (after waiting a long time for a Queue i really, really dont want to waste more of my time for another one), Players have no idea what they are doing and don't want to listen to players telling them what to do, the overall atmosphere is this trial is extremely toxic and it weary, weary painful to play through it. I would go so far to say that this trial is a complete waist of time (and You know i'm weary frustrated about it when i'm making this post on forums) and it completely destroyed the RTQ and REDQ experience both for your new players and for old players. New players will constantly get kicked form the dungeon (and will never learn how to play it) and old players will be extremely frustrated because they wasted there time on a trial that they will just have to abandon after 15min. I'm not saying that before CoDG was added to the RTQ everything was great, but it was a way batter experience then now. The only Trial i get when i queue is CoDG every time! and even dough i like it (and i really do) i don't want to play it every single day, and every single time i queue for a trial, and i do believe that there are many players (both new and old) who would like to never get queued for this trial again in there lives. I can only speak for the what i have experienced for myself in this trial, and understand that not all my experiences were horrible, but the odds of getting queued wit actually good players who know that they are doing are slim to none, and since this trial was added i had maybe one play-through that i would call "decent". All the rest was terrible and something i (and many other players) would never play again.

I beg you for the love of everything holly, remove CoDG from the trial queue. It single-handedly managed to destroy the entire RTQ experience, both for new and old players. And i know that not everything should be "easy" in the queue, but this is not a matter of easy and hard, this i just a horrible experience for everyone.

What about castle ravenfloft? Just No...

Here is how playing this dungeon goes:
* see that you have been queued for Catsle ravenloft *
Type in chat: 15min afk then abandon k?
Everyone else: k
* abandon instance *

The only reason why this is a batter experience is because people don't even want to start the dungeon so its not that painful...

I'm sure that there is someone who will comment something like "NO, NO, EASY TRIAL, EASY TRIAL". Look, i'm not saying this is not a easy trial, its probably the easiest trial of them all and if you have a good party its the shortest. The problem is getting queued for this trial with decent players in is impossible and you'll just end up with players who have no idea what they are doing and just thing that they can hold "w" and "mouse 1" and spam attacks, without wanting to read the chat (actually i had one guy answer "SHUT UP!" and than he continued hitting the Slime in the middle of the platform) . And also other players who instantly abandon the instance without even wanting to play because they are sick of this trial. And all i'm saying is that the trial queue was less toxic before this was added. All i see now is people typing "Loser team" and abandoning straight up or being AFK and waiting for someone to kick them.

genadine

They could make the Abandon Trial quicker than the current 15 mins, 10 players in instance if 9 say abanadon it goes, else you have to either give yourself a 30 minute cooldown or hope someone else bites that bullet as CoDG done right is over inside 15 minutes, it is probably the fastest trial with a well geared knowledgable team of them all.

But there are now many threads along the same vein but the Devs will not do anything about it.

ecrana

Abandon should be 5 minutes just like waiting on vote to kick. 15 minutes is a long time to waste in a Q. It's fairly apparent within 5 minutes, in almost every single piece of content, whether your group is competent enough to try to beat it.

tom

i actually really like the diversity they bring to those ques.

aerhythia

They don't really belong in the same tier as Malabog and eDemo.

edenfay

While I'm in that group of players who think Castle Ravenloft and LoMM do belong in REDQ, or at least must be transitioned into that list eventually, Cradle of the Death God does pose a problem. In mDemo, green-tear-hunters are a headache, but manageable; in mSVA, players who roam around in the blizzard will be eliminated in short order, with just a few attentive players being enough to kill ice; Tiamat isn't doomed by bad soul management, and one or two players making the right decisions can clinch it regardless.

But one player can knock around skulls and destroy slimes in CODG, and that's it: trial sabotaged. There's simply too much room for malicious, uninformed, and inattentive actors to completely stall the content, and there's no feasible comparison to CR or LOMM, which are five-person instances with breathing room to make mistakes and learn from them. You can luck out with nine sane, benevolent players, and it doesn't matter, because there's still that one ranger determined to spam at-wills in the middle of the elevator and who responds to any objections with 'salty much?'

That said, I *want* CODG in trial. And as much as I hate simplifying an already easy trial, it may be time to revisit how the elevator works.

b4t1b4t

If we remove the stats from my statement that I am about to make and focus on just a team of 5 people that are all pugs to a codg or cr or even lomm.
Each group can try the dungeon before stating its a fail.
The choice of waiting and wasting a 15 minute timer is really your choice to do so. Like I said from this statement not talking about stats I am talking about a group of 5 people that enter either of the 3 dungeons wasting down a 15 minute timer because they decided to and not try.
I to have been in groups of this nature while others are willing to at least try while waiting the 15 minutes out and others well become toxic and not willing but wish to waste time being you know those people I am referring to.
Now yes to a slight degree one can look at another ones stats and tell if he or she has the right to be present there.
Still yet when we queue up using the random regardless of what type random we are queuing in with the mind set knowing that we will get 4 pugs that we do not know and we queue in with the mind set that chances are the dungeon might fail.
However our mind set really should be on queuing in with the chance to try and see if the team we are given can complete it.
Like I said before how the team does dungeons these days will not change. When a new one is added to the game they push the old ones into the random queues allowing that new dungeon to be in its own queue. I really do not see this changing at all and asking for them to be removed from the queue is just wasting ones time and ones breath.
Instead we as a community should queue in willing to at least try the content we are given with the people we are given and if it fails after a 15 minute try out then it fails.
Btw it just might not fail just saying.

zimxero

CODG is perfectly doable by an average team in RTQ. CR and LoMM are more difficult than the average team. I like the diversity but have myself had to abandon LoMM on full random. There is no reason that we need to have a set IL level for a random queue.

What would be better:

Give each dungeon a unique IL level and have ONE random dungeon queue. Players get assigned to the highest IL dungeon that a full group of five is qualified to run, by the program. This would allow CR to be set 1000 IL higher, and LoMM at 2000 IL higher. In the future the dungeon IL's could drift to any magnitude the creators desire, instead of feeling forced to set them all to the same set difficulty.

Another twist to improve the random queues:
Make it so that each dungeon gives a bonus rAD equal to its IL level (once per week per dungeon per account) even if queued manually. This will encourage variety for players... while at the same time if you really like a particular dungeon you can queue it specifically once per week, have randoms join you, and still gain it's rAD award.

rikitaki

I do abandon CoDG straight away - because it is pointless. There is 2xguaranteed crash to desktop for me (+some other optional) - and people usually kick me out before I reboot the game anyway. So, why to waste the time?

Anyway, CoDG is the same case as everything else - people need to learn how to play it. RQ is the worst place to learn - as it became a synonym for a quick rAD grab, most people want to just grab the reward and possibly avoid any needless hassle. That includes forging a random ignorant into the shape - or listening to some old geezer and his advices.

It would be nice to give players some incentive to seek knowledge before entering RQ. However, rookies are mainly striving for rAD, rAD are hidden behind randoms. Result by simple mathematics: randoms will be full of clueless rookies.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

krumple01

rikitaki said:

I do abandon CoDG straight away - because it is pointless. There is 2xguaranteed crash to desktop for me (+some other optional) - and people usually kick me out before I reboot the game anyway. So, why to waste the time?

Anyway, CoDG is the same case as everything else - people need to learn how to play it. RQ is the worst place to learn - as it became a synonym for a quick rAD grab, most people want to just grab the reward and possibly avoid any needless hassle. That includes forging a random ignorant into the shape - or listening to some old geezer and his advices.

It would be nice to give players some incentive to seek knowledge before entering RQ. However, rookies are mainly striving for rAD, rAD are hidden behind randoms. Result by simple mathematics: randoms will be full of clueless rookies.

I have written up a long suggestion for the CDP on this topic.

What they really need to do is make two versions of every dungeon and trial. One is a training run that gives no reward and is required to unlock the random queue. It is quest driven and you must complete 2 to 3 of every dungeon first. Veterans can join these training dungeons if they want to help new players, but to prevent veteran players from speed running for rewards, the rewards don't exist in these training runs. They are meant to give new players exposure to the mechanics.

Once a player completes all the required runs, their random queues will be unlocked. This might not be a perfect system, it does help get all players on the same page. You will know they at least had to successfully run the dungeon prior to the random queue. This is so you won't see players trying to claim its their first time running it.

wintersmoke

krumple01 said:

rikitaki said:

I do abandon CoDG straight away - because it is pointless. There is 2xguaranteed crash to desktop for me (+some other optional) - and people usually kick me out before I reboot the game anyway. So, why to waste the time?

Anyway, CoDG is the same case as everything else - people need to learn how to play it. RQ is the worst place to learn - as it became a synonym for a quick rAD grab, most people want to just grab the reward and possibly avoid any needless hassle. That includes forging a random ignorant into the shape - or listening to some old geezer and his advices.

It would be nice to give players some incentive to seek knowledge before entering RQ. However, rookies are mainly striving for rAD, rAD are hidden behind randoms. Result by simple mathematics: randoms will be full of clueless rookies.

I have written up a long suggestion for the CDP on this topic.

What they really need to do is make two versions of every dungeon and trial. One is a training run that gives no reward and is required to unlock the random queue. It is quest driven and you must complete 2 to 3 of every dungeon first. Veterans can join these training dungeons if they want to help new players, but to prevent veteran players from speed running for rewards, the rewards don't exist in these training runs. They are meant to give new players exposure to the mechanics.

Once a player completes all the required runs, their random queues will be unlocked. This might not be a perfect system, it does help get all players on the same page. You will know they at least had to successfully run the dungeon prior to the random queue. This is so you won't see players trying to claim its their first time running it.

No reward = No Thanks

krumple01

wintersmoke said:

krumple01 said:

rikitaki said:

I do abandon CoDG straight away - because it is pointless. There is 2xguaranteed crash to desktop for me (+some other optional) - and people usually kick me out before I reboot the game anyway. So, why to waste the time?

Anyway, CoDG is the same case as everything else - people need to learn how to play it. RQ is the worst place to learn - as it became a synonym for a quick rAD grab, most people want to just grab the reward and possibly avoid any needless hassle. That includes forging a random ignorant into the shape - or listening to some old geezer and his advices.

It would be nice to give players some incentive to seek knowledge before entering RQ. However, rookies are mainly striving for rAD, rAD are hidden behind randoms. Result by simple mathematics: randoms will be full of clueless rookies.

I have written up a long suggestion for the CDP on this topic.

What they really need to do is make two versions of every dungeon and trial. One is a training run that gives no reward and is required to unlock the random queue. It is quest driven and you must complete 2 to 3 of every dungeon first. Veterans can join these training dungeons if they want to help new players, but to prevent veteran players from speed running for rewards, the rewards don't exist in these training runs. They are meant to give new players exposure to the mechanics.

Once a player completes all the required runs, their random queues will be unlocked. This might not be a perfect system, it does help get all players on the same page. You will know they at least had to successfully run the dungeon prior to the random queue. This is so you won't see players trying to claim its their first time running it.

No reward = No Thanks

Its necessary or else veteran players will just speed run it. Besides the whole point is to run it as a required training run. If you want to unlock randoms then you have to do them but once they are done you never have to do them again. So whats the problem with having no reward? Besides that, there is basically no rewards current as it is. So other than you trolling what is the problem?

wintersmoke

krumple01 said:

wintersmoke said:

krumple01 said:

rikitaki said:

I do abandon CoDG straight away - because it is pointless. There is 2xguaranteed crash to desktop for me (+some other optional) - and people usually kick me out before I reboot the game anyway. So, why to waste the time?

Anyway, CoDG is the same case as everything else - people need to learn how to play it. RQ is the worst place to learn - as it became a synonym for a quick rAD grab, most people want to just grab the reward and possibly avoid any needless hassle. That includes forging a random ignorant into the shape - or listening to some old geezer and his advices.

It would be nice to give players some incentive to seek knowledge before entering RQ. However, rookies are mainly striving for rAD, rAD are hidden behind randoms. Result by simple mathematics: randoms will be full of clueless rookies.

I have written up a long suggestion for the CDP on this topic.

What they really need to do is make two versions of every dungeon and trial. One is a training run that gives no reward and is required to unlock the random queue. It is quest driven and you must complete 2 to 3 of every dungeon first. Veterans can join these training dungeons if they want to help new players, but to prevent veteran players from speed running for rewards, the rewards don't exist in these training runs. They are meant to give new players exposure to the mechanics.

Once a player completes all the required runs, their random queues will be unlocked. This might not be a perfect system, it does help get all players on the same page. You will know they at least had to successfully run the dungeon prior to the random queue. This is so you won't see players trying to claim its their first time running it.

No reward = No Thanks

Its necessary or else veteran players will just speed run it. Besides the whole point is to run it as a required training run. If you want to unlock randoms then you have to do them but once they are done you never have to do them again. So whats the problem with having no reward? Besides that, there is basically no rewards current as it is. So other than you trolling what is the problem?

Unless the unlock reward comes with a guaranteed Legendary Mount drop... I would pass.

thany

CoDG isn't hard. But some people don't want to learn mechanics. We can find same problem in demo epic lately. RTQ should go up to 20K ilvl minimum, and redq to 22K. But that way, new players will give up... There's no problem to carry 2-3 new players, but 5... It can be a problem in rtq.

krumple01

wintersmoke said:

krumple01 said:

wintersmoke said:

krumple01 said:

rikitaki said:

I do abandon CoDG straight away - because it is pointless. There is 2xguaranteed crash to desktop for me (+some other optional) - and people usually kick me out before I reboot the game anyway. So, why to waste the time?

Anyway, CoDG is the same case as everything else - people need to learn how to play it. RQ is the worst place to learn - as it became a synonym for a quick rAD grab, most people want to just grab the reward and possibly avoid any needless hassle. That includes forging a random ignorant into the shape - or listening to some old geezer and his advices.

It would be nice to give players some incentive to seek knowledge before entering RQ. However, rookies are mainly striving for rAD, rAD are hidden behind randoms. Result by simple mathematics: randoms will be full of clueless rookies.

I have written up a long suggestion for the CDP on this topic.

What they really need to do is make two versions of every dungeon and trial. One is a training run that gives no reward and is required to unlock the random queue. It is quest driven and you must complete 2 to 3 of every dungeon first. Veterans can join these training dungeons if they want to help new players, but to prevent veteran players from speed running for rewards, the rewards don't exist in these training runs. They are meant to give new players exposure to the mechanics.

Once a player completes all the required runs, their random queues will be unlocked. This might not be a perfect system, it does help get all players on the same page. You will know they at least had to successfully run the dungeon prior to the random queue. This is so you won't see players trying to claim its their first time running it.

No reward = No Thanks

Its necessary or else veteran players will just speed run it. Besides the whole point is to run it as a required training run. If you want to unlock randoms then you have to do them but once they are done you never have to do them again. So whats the problem with having no reward? Besides that, there is basically no rewards current as it is. So other than you trolling what is the problem?

Unless the unlock reward comes with a guaranteed Legendary Mount drop... I would pass.

Yeah just as I suspected. You are just a troll here.

repsolroger

im new to the game .. so many abbreveated names i have no clue what anyone is talking about ...so i basicly stop reading chat because i have no clue

Unknown

This content has been removed.

wintersmoke

krumple01 said:

wintersmoke said:

krumple01 said:

wintersmoke said:

krumple01 said:

rikitaki said:

I do abandon CoDG straight away - because it is pointless. There is 2xguaranteed crash to desktop for me (+some other optional) - and people usually kick me out before I reboot the game anyway. So, why to waste the time?

Anyway, CoDG is the same case as everything else - people need to learn how to play it. RQ is the worst place to learn - as it became a synonym for a quick rAD grab, most people want to just grab the reward and possibly avoid any needless hassle. That includes forging a random ignorant into the shape - or listening to some old geezer and his advices.

It would be nice to give players some incentive to seek knowledge before entering RQ. However, rookies are mainly striving for rAD, rAD are hidden behind randoms. Result by simple mathematics: randoms will be full of clueless rookies.

I have written up a long suggestion for the CDP on this topic.

What they really need to do is make two versions of every dungeon and trial. One is a training run that gives no reward and is required to unlock the random queue. It is quest driven and you must complete 2 to 3 of every dungeon first. Veterans can join these training dungeons if they want to help new players, but to prevent veteran players from speed running for rewards, the rewards don't exist in these training runs. They are meant to give new players exposure to the mechanics.

Once a player completes all the required runs, their random queues will be unlocked. This might not be a perfect system, it does help get all players on the same page. You will know they at least had to successfully run the dungeon prior to the random queue. This is so you won't see players trying to claim its their first time running it.

No reward = No Thanks

Its necessary or else veteran players will just speed run it. Besides the whole point is to run it as a required training run. If you want to unlock randoms then you have to do them but once they are done you never have to do them again. So whats the problem with having no reward? Besides that, there is basically no rewards current as it is. So other than you trolling what is the problem?

Unless the unlock reward comes with a guaranteed Legendary Mount drop... I would pass.

Yeah just as I suspected. You are just a troll here.

If you wanna run content over, and over, and over, and, over and over again (for no rewards) be my guest. That is what the preview server is for. Kindly leave me out of your wacky little plan.

some1stolemynickname

wintersmoke said:

If you wanna run content over, and over, and over, and, over and over again (for no rewards) be my guest. That is what the preview server is for. Kindly leave me out of your wacky little plan.

krumple01 said:

Veterans can join these training dungeons if they want to help new players, but to prevent veteran players from speed running for rewards, the rewards don't exist in these training runs.

Once a player completes all the required runs, their random queues will be unlocked.

there...shortened it and put something important in bold he had stated...yes you are a troll here as you are in many other discussions

I agree with that plan. They should also come up with a way to auto-translate chat so different languages can communicate.

krumple01

wintersmoke said:

If you wanna run content over, and over, and over, and, over and over again (for no rewards) be my guest. That is what the preview server is for. Kindly leave me out of your wacky little plan.

See this is how I am 100% certain you never read anything on the forums, you are just here to troll. You quickly glance over a post then respond to it. I have stated it several times.

its 2 or 3 runs per dungeon that.s it. To unlock randoms. It's not "running dungeons over and over and over for no rewards."

simplified dungeons, dialed back difficulty, so you only need to the run the dungeons on the list for random queues 2 or 3 times prior to being able to queue for the regular randoms.

So will I need to repeat myself again after this, so you can repeat, "over and over and over and over and over for no reward.."

You are a troll, face it..

greywynd

Running it more than once for nothing IS running it "over and over for no rewards". You don't punish any of the players for playing the game. You don't want to help teach, then queue only with your friends/guildies/allies and call it good.

wintersmoke

krumple01 said:

wintersmoke said:

If you wanna run content over, and over, and over, and, over and over again (for no rewards) be my guest. That is what the preview server is for. Kindly leave me out of your wacky little plan.

See this is how I am 100% certain you never read anything on the forums, you are just here to troll. You quickly glance over a post then respond to it. I have stated it several times.

its 2 or 3 runs per dungeon that.s it. To unlock randoms. It's not "running dungeons over and over and over for no rewards."

simplified dungeons, dialed back difficulty, so you only need to the run the dungeons on the list for random queues 2 or 3 times prior to being able to queue for the regular randoms.

So will I need to repeat myself again after this, so you can repeat, "over and over and over and over and over for no reward.."

You are a troll, face it..

Cool story, bro... except...

krumple01 said:

So you take CR, you reduce it's difficulty, leave in the mechanics so new players can learn it but not punish them severely. Just strip out the rewards and make the dungeon basically a learning queue that is required by all players to complete first. You can do this for every dungeon and new dungeon before they can normal queue for rewards. Don't make it just 1 run requirement, but make it 5 or 10 times first. Because if its only 1 required run, they could of gotten lucky and went with a good group and now they qualify for random queue yet still don't know the mechanic. You need to make it multiple runs so they have a chance to see it when its bad, see the dungeon when its good, and see all the possible issues in the dungeon first before going into random queue.

krumple01

greywynd said:

Running it more than once for nothing IS running it "over and over for no rewards". You don't punish any of the players for playing the game. You don't want to help teach, then queue only with your friends/guildies/allies and call it good.

This is what is silly about people on this forum, they read nothing.

I do help new players and have no problem helping new players. The point I am getting at is a method by which would help new players gain experience without hindering other players in the process.

I have a very large guild and a very active alliance and have zero problems finding alliance members to run any content with plus a massive friends list where I am constantly asked to help run content.

This has been mentioned MANY times with other posters even stating that they have seen me help other players. So don't pretend like I just need to find "friend" to get stuff done.

The POINT is to help those who don't have access yet to guilds or DONT want to join a guild. Should those players be punished for not having people to pull from? Because that is how silly your argument is.

The solution IS NOT to just advise someone to find friends to run content with. It's a terrible solution.

greywynd

The solution is nowhere near "you have to run this content X times before you can start getting anything from it".

b4t1b4t

What I can take away from those two being unhealthy is the rewards that are given at the end. Much like any dungeon in this game the rewards are just pathetic at this point.
Sure the AD seems nice but over time its just bla. As for the randoms go. You should queue up for a random with a mind set of thinking you just might get CR or CODG or even LOMM and that the party just might not win the queue and it just might become a failure but the end result should be well we did not win but omg at least i had fun trying.
I feel many many players of this game forget the fun one can have just by running a random that fails.
I had a failed CR way back that actually was pretty fun even though we failed at least the party I was with was cool and awesome and made the failed run bit fun for me.
Just saying queuing up with a mind set fixated and focused on the end drop rewards is no way to have a fun time.
This is just my input.

ecrana

This idea failed as soon as you stated no rewards. Bad rewards are still better than no rewards.

Locking real runs behind some training wheel runs seems like such a simplified view of a solution to something that's not really an issue either.

People failing because they don't know the mechanics well? Oh no, this has never happened before in the history of videogaming! Stick those failures in a corner until they earn the right to earn a reward!

I'm all for normal/epic versions of content with different loot tables. But this idea of an unrewarding training run (multiple times at that) comes across as more of punishment just so a different subset of players isn't inconvenienced in a game genre that's all about being social and playing with others.

b4t1b4t

Maybe but when I look at the game and dungeons it self regardless of what dungeon I see no real reward in it for me to run that dungeon. Sure RAD is a nice reward but at some point you get flooded with so much RAD that you start to ask your self what is the point of me farming this much when I can only refine just 100K each day account wide.
That is where I was a few months back finding my self queuing for LOMM asking my self why? I did not need the AD because I had so much and the rewards outside of that was just so bla that it made me question why bother.
I feel the team really does need to look at rewards in all dungeons and make a change some where some how that makes the rewards worth my time to run what ever dungeon I get into.
Lord knows some dungeons take along time to queue into and others once you are in might fail or take awhile to complete.

ecrana

b4t1b4t said:

Maybe but when I look at the game and dungeons it self regardless of what dungeon I see no real reward in it for me to run that dungeon.

I don't disagree with this but it essentially has nothing to do with arguing against training runs.

I think anyone that's been playing for over a year falls into the "rewards suck just about everywhere" camp. Most vets don't need the RAD. I wish I could just cash out all my RAD and spend it in one swoop just so I have an excuse to have to farm some RAD.

reaperofsouls89

cannot delete previous comment?

reaperofsouls89

krumple01 said:

rikitaki said:

I do abandon CoDG straight away - because it is pointless. There is 2xguaranteed crash to desktop for me (+some other optional) - and people usually kick me out before I reboot the game anyway. So, why to waste the time?

Anyway, CoDG is the same case as everything else - people need to learn how to play it. RQ is the worst place to learn - as it became a synonym for a quick rAD grab, most people want to just grab the reward and possibly avoid any needless hassle. That includes forging a random ignorant into the shape - or listening to some old geezer and his advices.

It would be nice to give players some incentive to seek knowledge before entering RQ. However, rookies are mainly striving for rAD, rAD are hidden behind randoms. Result by simple mathematics: randoms will be full of clueless rookies.

I have written up a long suggestion for the CDP on this topic.

What they really need to do is make two versions of every dungeon and trial. One is a training run that gives no reward and is required to unlock the random queue. It is quest driven and you must complete 2 to 3 of every dungeon first. Veterans can join these training dungeons if they want to help new players, but to prevent veteran players from speed running for rewards, the rewards don't exist in these training runs. They are meant to give new players exposure to the mechanics.

Once a player completes all the required runs, their random queues will be unlocked. This might not be a perfect system, it does help get all players on the same page. You will know they at least had to successfully run the dungeon prior to the random queue. This is so you won't see players trying to claim its their first time running it.

I can see your point as to how they can learn the mechanics but... Are the veteran players required to complete these training runs and if so, will they have to pair with the new players? Because if its like the trials going on right now its not even worth trying to complete the training run as you'll just be paired with the new players and never finish some of them out.