mod18 - Creeping death vs executioners gift

luthor

Hey warlock folks out there!

mod 18 is out now and I've been looking at the changes and it seems like creeping death from warlock now does a decent chunk of dmg with it's stacking effects. It is killing it in single target, but how does it perform in AOE situations? I'm still testing it with Advanced combat tracker etc. but I can't find the satisfying number for me.

So what are your thoughts and testing so far?
Would creeping death actually outperform executioners gift in AOE situations?

Let's take LoMM for example, weaker mobs barely survive longer than 3-5 seconds.
and creeping death takes the first reap after 2 seconds which is abit over 2000 then after 4 seconds over 4000, after 6sec 6000+dmg then after 10 it would do 11k dmg. to max of 10 stacks and it refreshes after every hit.

stronger mobs tend to survive longer than the smaller ones, they last around 6-11 seconds.
If you would pull off your following rotation: 1. Fiery bolt, 2. cursebite+parting blasphemy, 3. Infernal spheres or hellfire ring, 4. Curse bite, then 2-3 hits of At-wills... it would then apply 6-8 stacks of Creeping death. sometimes even more. Wouldn't that be better than execut. gift?

Now let's look at 20% Execut. gift: Mob has 100% HP ---> gets damaged by other players down to 80%, then cast Fiery bolt (20.000 base dmg) paired with deadly curse (2500 dmg)= 22.500!
First hit from fiery b. would get 900-1000 (4%) from exec. gift.
Second hit: Curse bite 25. 000 + parting blasphemy 8500 = 33.500! 2nd one hits at 60% and would get 8% bonus from exec. gift, which is 2680!
Third Hit: Infernal Spheres 24.000 + Deadly curse 2500 = 26.500. This one hits at around 40% which gets 12% bonus from exec gift. 3180 bonus dmg

curse bite and parting b. again hits at around 20% HP of mob, gets 16% or more form exec gift. 5360 dmg.
Then hit the left overs with couple At-Wills which adds abit over 1200 bonus form exec gift.

Executioners gift rotation would do between 12k to 15k dmg. Probably 2 rotation are needed to finish stronger mobs. consider that encounters cooldowns are around 10+ seconds. I have not taken any crits in account as it is just relative.

Creeping death rotation would do on weaker mobs 2k-4k dmg. on stronger ones it does between 20k to 55k.

mwk

Don't use creeping death! However, I will tell you that there is a class feature that applies lesser curse (all consuming curse) to all at wills. Use the feat that gives 12% (or is it 10%?) to lesser curse (warlock's curse)! You will thank me because at-wills are used most; trust me you will kill faster! Executioner's gift is better because it's 20% damage as health diminishes, meaning the first strike to enemy death. Creeping death is 10 % over 5 seconds...meaning it stops! So NO creeping death! Don't use soul spark recovery! The soul puppet attacks faster than earning 6 soul sparks for one second cooldown.

luthor

thanks for reply! maybe you haven't read everything I wrote yet. I would like to mention that creeping death now deals a 10-stack dot of 11,5k every 2 seconds. it has been retouched in case you have not noticed yet. and doesn't stop. it refreshes it's DoT after every hit.

I only use warlocks curse for single target, I use parting blasphemy for AOE mobs, because it deals instantly 8500 whenever curse gets removed. if you take 12% from 25.000 of curse bite or 20.000 fiery bolt. it is still lower than 8500. and your rotation is limited to your encounter cooldown.

I use at-wills too, but more frequently on boss fights, lomm mobs die very fast, so encounters are enough most of the time

and executioners gift does not apply after first strike. it works like the orcus set. bonus will apply based on the percentage of target hitpoints. which means you won't get 20%, most of time you will get around 16%

kolatmaster

I'm, currently, using Feats: Top, Bottom, Top, Top Top

It's been pretty darn good IMO, Creeping Death that is...

However, I've always looking at Warlock as a solo target king. Let the Wizards and others clear the trash, we are the Boss Killers.

I'm having no issue in general content AoE wise, so I could careless about 'Paingiver' overall, as trash is trash. I'll be happy to 'be the best' (not saying we are, but that's my goal! lol) and be the One Target King.

Still testing of course, but it's looking solid!

gonzakotwi

I came up to the thinking that is very situational, you can check my tests on warlock discord

> @kolatmaster said:
> However, I've always looking at Warlock as a solo target king. Let the Wizards and others clear the trash, we are the Boss Killers.

Yeah, tell that to bloody halaster XD

giz

gonzakotwi said:

I came up to the thinking that is very situational, you can check my tests on warlock discord



> @kolatmaster said:

> However, I've always looking at Warlock as a solo target king. Let the Wizards and others clear the trash, we are the Boss Killers.



Yeah, tell that to bloody halaster XD

Tell that to the devs, they destroyed everything about ST DPS on Warlocks.

isaacorion

(despite my warlock being shelved till M19 basically)
I've been eye-ing the new Creeping Death with one specific goal: Making it deal >15% of my max hp per tick. If it could manage that then it opens a good window for Primal Gloves and the Infernal Forged Shirt. I've currently been struggling to hit 15% consistently with at-wills/Hellfire Ring.
Not hopeful it will save my warlock, but eh, goals and priorities and all that.

abwabwaba

Someone already mentioned it in another topic:
Risky Investment feat and Executioner's Gift should switch places on the feat table (untill a feat rework with better synergie happens). Why? Thou with Dark Players u can build up vs trash mobs the Risky Investment faster, but there are lots of bosses with no ads around (aaand most of the time others DPS classes killing trashmobs faster before you even could curse them all). And not having trash mobs around u still need 1+ min to build up RI with certain encounters (dont have much option what to slot...) and it only lasts till the puppet is alive, or cuz of the mechanic the puppet despawns, etc...
It wont solve our problem, but switch those 2 feats on the table. Warlocks are a left behind dps class since mod 16 arrived and who knows when mod 19 arrives with a promised rework it will change our situation much?!
+1: Its not the correct topic to bring it up here, but it was mentioned dozens of time in the right topics (still nothing happened), that many-many creatures are around which doesnt generate soulsparks.

rikitaki

As you mentioned in OP: Creeping death has been reworked. Now it is fixed+stacking magnitude = it no longer suffer from the DoT misery as it used to. (...I would not follow mwk advices as he does not even know this)

However, it still generally performs a bit worse compared to Executioners gift - mainly because it cannot do critical damage, which will shuffle the results you your equations a lot.

tempus86

Im fine with creeping death as it is. IF they do some shuffling.

1) Remove Executioners Gift as a feat, and merge it with Hellfire Expertise
This would give us roughly a 10% boost

2) Parting Blasphemy - deals 85magnitude when curse is removed, lesser curse now deals its damage over 4 seconds instead of 8seconds

3) Remove Risky investment as a feat, and combine it with Soul Desecration, reduce the encounter buff to 3% per stack (max 15%) , Increase the soul puppets Crit Severity to 100% and move Soul Desecration to tier 4 with Creeping Death.
Now you have Creeping Death, the old Fury capstone, and Soul desecration, the old Damnation capstone paired together and both should be roughly equal in damage output. (slightly different to the old capstones but hey)

Now we have 2 free Feat spaces paired together for 2 new feats.

New feat 1 - Murderous Flames ( huzzah)
Empowers Fire based damage
Killing flames no longer deals bonus damage based on health, but deals 650 magnitude
Fiery Bolt now deals 300 magnitude to the primary target, and 200 magnitude to all targets within 15"
Infernal Spheres now deals 50 magnitude per sphere and radius is increased to 20"
Flames Of Phlegethos now deals an additional 750 magnitude
Hellish rebuke deals an additional 5 magnitude


New Feat 2 - Necrotic Mastery
Empowers Necrotic damage
Hadars Grasp is increased to 300 magnitude
Blade of the Vanquished armies Deals an additional 5 magnitude per blade
Dreadtheft now deals 600 magnitude
Tyrannical Curse Deals now deals an additional 300 magnitude
Hand of Blight Deals an additional 5 magnitude melee and 10 magnitude ranged

Could just have it as 10% more fire damage or 10% more necrotic damage, but would be more interesting with specific effects.
Whatever, im just bored of m18 BHE farming already..... +ape +ape +ape

gonzakotwi

As always, the HAMSTER is bugged, And the usuals taking advantage of it (worthless to mention they wont get any penalty because you know, same as with the leg mounts). And the rest of us have to suffer the nerf afterwards. Then i would still not get tomm weapons because i avoid bug exploit, and i cant get 10 good ppl to do it. Great job devs, im tired of this

mwk

luthor#3134 said:

thanks for reply! maybe you haven't read everything I wrote yet. I would like to mention that creeping death now deals a 10-stack dot of 11,5k every 2 seconds. it has been retouched in case you have not noticed yet. and doesn't stop. it refreshes it's DoT after every hit.

I only use warlocks curse for single target, I use parting blasphemy for AOE mobs, because it deals instantly 8500 whenever curse gets removed. if you take 12% from 25.000 of curse bite or 20.000 fiery bolt. it is still lower than 8500. and your rotation is limited to your encounter cooldown.

I use at-wills too, but more frequently on boss fights, lomm mobs die very fast, so encounters are enough most of the time

and executioners gift does not apply after first strike. it works like the orcus set. bonus will apply based on the percentage of target hitpoints. which means you won't get 20%, most of time you will get around 16%

Creeping Death has been changed to a stacking DoT that deals 10 magnitude damage per stack, every 2 seconds, for 10 seconds. The maximum stack count is 10.

10 magnitude every 2 seconds
10 magnitude every 2 seconds
10 magnitude every 2 seconds
10 magnitude every 2 seconds

40 magnitude in just 8 seconds. WEAK! Think about that for awhile. Each stack is 10 magnitude-every 2 seconds and each stack lasts 10 seconds. I'm not going there!

Each stack is 10 magnitude each 2 seconds and that stack lasts 10 seconds.

Executioner's is constant damage as enemy health diminishes. So I like Executioner's Gift better.

Correct me if I'm wrong here. Creeping Death has the advantage, when out of combat and that's all; poison damage stepping away and not using skills. Enough stated.

Though I will take a look at the changes I guess to determine.

edenfay

mwk said:

10 magnitude every 2 seconds
10 magnitude every 2 seconds
10 magnitude every 2 seconds
10 magnitude every 2 seconds

40 magnitude in just 8 seconds. WEAK! Think about that for awhile. Each stack is 10 magnitude-every 2 seconds and each stack lasts 10 seconds. I'm not going there!

It stacks to 100 magnitude every 2 seconds, which is actually quite strong for a DOT. The issues are that 1) it doesn't crit and 2) it still competes with a feat which is not only better at the same task, but is useful in a wider variety of fights

luthor

mwk said:

luthor#3134 said:

thanks for reply! maybe you haven't read everything I wrote yet. I would like to mention that creeping death now deals a 10-stack dot of 11,5k every 2 seconds. it has been retouched in case you have not noticed yet. and doesn't stop. it refreshes it's DoT after every hit.

I only use warlocks curse for single target, I use parting blasphemy for AOE mobs, because it deals instantly 8500 whenever curse gets removed. if you take 12% from 25.000 of curse bite or 20.000 fiery bolt. it is still lower than 8500. and your rotation is limited to your encounter cooldown.

I use at-wills too, but more frequently on boss fights, lomm mobs die very fast, so encounters are enough most of the time

and executioners gift does not apply after first strike. it works like the orcus set. bonus will apply based on the percentage of target hitpoints. which means you won't get 20%, most of time you will get around 16%

Creeping Death has been changed to a stacking DoT that deals 10 magnitude damage per stack, every 2 seconds, for 10 seconds. The maximum stack count is 10.

10 magnitude every 2 seconds
10 magnitude every 2 seconds
10 magnitude every 2 seconds
10 magnitude every 2 seconds

40 magnitude in just 8 seconds. WEAK! Think about that for awhile. Each stack is 10 magnitude-every 2 seconds and each stack lasts 10 seconds. I'm not going there!

Each stack is 10 magnitude each 2 seconds and that stack lasts 10 seconds.

Executioner's is constant damage as enemy health diminishes. So I like Executioner's Gift better.

Correct me if I'm wrong here. Creeping Death has the advantage, when out of combat and that's all; poison damage stepping away and not using skills. Enough stated.

Though I will take a look at the changes I guess to determine.

First off it does not do 40 magnitude every 2 seconds.
The 10 Stack does abit over 100 magnitude every 2 seconds. around 11k base dmg, sometimes even 19k (without crit). I've tested and edenfay said it too. AGAIN it does not last just 10 seconds. it last as long as you hit the enemy. hence constant doT
Go test it yourself

now if you take Executioners gift, you won't get constant damage of it, it requires your opponent to have lower HP than you, and based on % you will get on average 10-16% DMG bonus. It is good for AOE on WEAKER mobs only, but not on tougher mobs that take more than 10 seconds to kill, it is NOT. 10-16% from a 250 magnitude is not alot compared to creeping death after 10 seconds. and most LoMM mobs take around 8-16 seconds to kill

I will post a screenshot of my combat tracker tool, creeping death was 2nd in dmg

luthor

I have uploaded a sheet from advanced combat tracker, it shows the creeping death in numbers. it was tested in LOMM at boreworm. image link below

you see curse bite did 6 mill dmg, creeping death did 5,2 mill dmg
add exec.gift bonus, an average of 10-15 % of 6 mil is still just 600k-900k dmg, repeat it for fiery bolt and hellfire ring 400k-600k, still lower than creeping death

exec. gift does better in scaled content and weaker massed mobs. that's it

link proof here:
https://imgur.com/MPpHKFe

edenfay

luthor#3134 said:

now if you take Executioners gift, you won't get constant damage of it, it requires your opponent to have lower HP than you, and based on % you will get on average 10-16% DMG bonus. It is good for AOE on WEAKER mobs only, but not on tougher mobs that take more than 10 seconds to kill, it is NOT. 10-16% from a 250 magnitude is not alot compared to creeping death after 10 seconds. and most LoMM mobs take around 8-16 seconds to kill

I'm on PS4 so can't test it yet myself, but I would expect there to be a "sweet spot" for creeping death where a boss has enough health to make a long-ish fight, but not enough health that you can exploit Executioner's Gift bonus to its fullest. It makes sense that Creeping Death would outperform on Trobriand, Bore Worm, etc. because those mobs are around for more than a few seconds, but you also don't have time to drop more than a couple rotations or a daily when they're at low health. Halaster, however, is around for considerably longer, and you get to use many more rotations/dailies at low health to get fullest advantage of the Executioner's Gift - so that feat would (I would imagine) regain the edge over Creeping Death again.

all theorycrafting though because I'm a month away

luthor

Regarding Halaster and bosses that stay longer. Yes you might get fullest out of exec. Gift.

Keep in mind that the exec. gift gets efficient at below 50%, more at 25% health. You should get around 15% bonus dmg, which translates to 7500 up to 15k+ in dmg. And still your cooldowns are at 12-15 seconds so is your rotation. By the time exec. takes full effect. Creeping death already did ton of dmg right after 10sec. From there it will be 55k dmg every 10 seconds. It is a free encounter every 10 seconds.

legend

> @luthor#3134 said:
> Regarding Halaster and bosses that stay longer. Yes you might get fullest out of exec. Gift.
>
> Keep in mind that the exec. gift gets efficient at below 50%, more at 25% health. You should get around 15% bonus dmg, which translates to 7500 up to 15k+ in dmg. And still your cooldowns are at 12-15 seconds so is your rotation. By the time exec. takes full effect. Creeping death already did ton of dmg right after 10sec. From there it will be 55k dmg every 10 seconds. It is a free encounter every 10 seconds.

Not only that .. if you have 2 or more SW Creeping Death stacks.

legend

> @tempus86#1158 said:
> Im fine with creeping death as it is. IF they do some shuffling.
>
> 1) Remove Executioners Gift as a feat, and merge it with Hellfire Expertise
> This would give us roughly a 10% boost
>
> 2) Parting Blasphemy - deals 85magnitude when curse is removed, lesser curse now deals its damage over 4 seconds instead of 8seconds
>
> 3) Remove Risky investment as a feat, and combine it with Soul Desecration, reduce the encounter buff to 3% per stack (max 15%) , Increase the soul puppets Crit Severity to 100% and move Soul Desecration to tier 4 with Creeping Death.
> Now you have Creeping Death, the old Fury capstone, and Soul desecration, the old Damnation capstone paired together and both should be roughly equal in damage output. (slightly different to the old capstones but hey)
>
> Now we have 2 free Feat spaces paired together for 2 new feats.
>
> New feat 1 - Murderous Flames ( huzzah)
> Empowers Fire based damage
> Killing flames no longer deals bonus damage based on health, but deals 650 magnitude
> Fiery Bolt now deals 300 magnitude to the primary target, and 200 magnitude to all targets within 15"
> Infernal Spheres now deals 50 magnitude per sphere and radius is increased to 20"
> Flames Of Phlegethos now deals an additional 750 magnitude
> Hellish rebuke deals an additional 5 magnitude
>
>
> New Feat 2 - Necrotic Mastery
> Empowers Necrotic damage
> Hadars Grasp is increased to 300 magnitude
> Blade of the Vanquished armies Deals an additional 5 magnitude per blade
> Dreadtheft now deals 600 magnitude
> Tyrannical Curse Deals now deals an additional 300 magnitude
> Hand of Blight Deals an additional 5 magnitude melee and 10 magnitude ranged
>
> Could just have it as 10% more fire damage or 10% more necrotic damage, but would be more interesting with specific effects.
> Whatever, im just bored of m18 BHE farming already..... +ape +ape +ape

I really like your suggestion! It's amazing and should be brought up to Chris.

hadestemplar

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