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State of the Ranger
gabrieldourden
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
State of the Ranger
I’ve been playing the ranger since it was released and it has always been my main. I went through all the mods and changes to the class, trying to adapt and helping out other rangers in several different guilds, writing guides and making tutorial videos when needed. I also did a lot of soloing for fun.
This is my perspective on the class based on this background and all the hours I spent in the game. I hope it could be helpful to start a discussion on the class and see what other players around think.
The focus is mostly on playstile and not so much on effectiveness. Effectiveness can be changed easily by tweaking numbers but playstile is much more subtle and personal and more related to the pure fun of playing a class.
All the discussion here below is PVE-based. I’m not expert enough in PVP to give sound feedback.
Historical view:
The original version of the ranger, called Stormwarden had three paths: Archery, Combat and Nature. They catered towards three archetypes: the archer, Drizzt Do’Urden and a kind of druid.
There was a strong focus on continuous stance changes and actually most rangers were using full- round rotations of six encounters. With power creep and the Royal Guard set, the reliance on encounters went up and in the late stages the Stormwarden had a playstile very similar to the later Trapper.
Two main builds were viable: a DPS Archer with some dips in Combat and the Nature ranger but practically only the first one was widely used. Builds were a mix of fire and forget powers (Rain of Arrows, Rain of Swords, Thorn Ward) and direct damage powers.
I played for a couple of months a Nature ranger and using the right feats it could substitute a cleric in most content but when things started to get difficult it was hard to stay on par with a DC. Support for the nature tree was taken away with the arrival of the Trapper but powers were not changed so we still have a number of nature powers that are completely useless (especially in the current version in Mod 16-17, with the nerf of Fox’s Cunning and the fact that people are usually capped for content).
With Mod 3 the Pathfinder paragon path came, together with the Trapper feat tree that substituted nature. With this change a new way of playing became the meta, based on a continuous rotation of encounters, roots, and Hunter’s Teamwork/Careful Attack.
Trapper stayed the meta for a long time, until Combat was buffed with a decent version of Blade Hurricane. Warden Melee is the evolution of Combat and is the current meta. The main reasons are Blade Hurricane, Storm’s Recovery and the existance of three hard-hitting melee powers with relatively low cooldowns (Boar’s Charge, Marauder’s Rush and Hindering Strike). This means that the current “performing” version of the Ranger is really hanging on a thin line.
POWER'S REVIEW:
AT-WILLS:
In general all ranger at-wills are pretty bad. This has been masked in the past by the fact that the class was played almost only with encounters, and today by the existance of Blade Hurricane for melee and to a lesser extent by Storm Conduit for ranged. Both these feats are on the Warden side, meaning that at-wills for Hunters are just plain bad. The lack of DPS on the Hunter mostly comes from the fact that there is no way to power up at-wills.
ENCOUNTERS:
Performing powers:
Hindering Shot/Hindering Strike: this is by far the best ranger power. Both sides apply roots and Hindering Strike has both high magnitude and hits an area.
Boar Hide/Boar Charge: the melee side is used because of the high magnitude and low cooldown. The ranged side is basically useless as normally everybody is capped on defense.
Marauder’s Escape/Rush: the melee part is used for the same reasons of Boar Charge and the ability to close range. The ranged side is unstable in aiming and the animation is usually canceled by jumping to avoid moving back. This goes against the original ranger concept of switching stance and using ranged powers at range and melee powers in melee.
Constricting Arrow/Steel Breeze: this power is used by Hunters as the ranged side has a good magnitude and applies roots and because Steel Breeze deals a decent damage in an area.
Longstrider Shot/Gushing Wound: with the changes on preview this is a good single-target power, even if it lost the appeal of the original version of Longstrider and Gushing Wound remains difficult to aim and place.
Powers with issues:
Cordon of Arrows/Plant Growth: the main issue of this power has always been the cooldown of the melee side. Old style trappers were able to cope with that due to Swiftness of the Fox reducing cooldowns dramatically and the high damage of Plant Growth at the time, with a different type of roots that stacked with Thorned Roots, made it a viable solution. As of today Plant Growth is seriously underperforming and Cordon of Arrows not good enough to be slotted.
Rain of Arrows/Rain of Swords: this is another power plagued by design issues from the beginning. Rain of Arrows has a small area and works only on static targets. Magnitude is low. Rain of Swords magnitude is really low too. Both powers have no added effects. By the way Rain of Swords have been used in the past only when it was needed to proc certain effects (like cooldowns reduction on crits with the Royal Guard armor set).
Ambush/Bear Trap: Bear Trap is very small and complex to place. Ambush is nice but the power as a whole is underperforming for most builds. Since this power appeared I’ve never seen it used by anyone in PVE.
Hawk Shot/Hawk Eye: Hawk Shot is not really interesting enough for trash and plain bad for single target. Hawk Eye could be a good power for a Nature build with some feat/feature support (Primal Instincts is simply not enough).
Commanding Shot/Stag Heart: this was a Nature power. Commanding shot is probably worth only in trials where you may have 6-8 dps, but in dungeons it’s not likely that somebody will slot it. Stag Heart is missing feat support as all other nature powers.
Rapid Volley/Windwalk Strike: Rapid Volley is not a bad power for trash, still magnitude is too low. Windwalk is nice for the movement side bud damage is really too low. Compare a Warden with Marauder’s Rush and Hindering Strike vs. an Hunter trying to do something similar with Rapid Volley and Windwalker Strike…
Split the Sky/Throw Caution: Split the Sky is potentially not a bad power but only for prolonged fights. Most trash fights are very fast and even in prolonged fights there are better options. Going back to the old version of Split the Sky with a lower magnitude would make it much more viable (i.e. all enemies under the cloud were hit by lightning when hitting a target).
Fox’s Cunning/Fox Shift: this was by design a nature power. It gave free automatic dodges and slowed down enemies. The original version of Fox Shift dealt a lot of damage too and made the whole power a staple in PVP. Now no nature tree is available and the damage of Fox Shift is pitiful. Free dodges have been substituted by 10% damage resistance which would not be bad in some situations (mainly trials) but this goes vs a substantial loss in DPS.
Binding Arrow/Oak Skin: this was again a nature power. No ranger will use it for the healing side and while the ranged damage is nice, it doesn’t make sense to have a roots power on the Warden while all feat support for roots is on the Hunter.
Thorn Ward/Thorn Strike: Thorn Ward is a nice single-target power but the cooldown is very long and the damage of Thorn Strike is really low. By the way this power is in the Warden, which is currently played as melee. To keep up Thorn Ward you need to switch to Ranged stance, resetting the bonus from Focused, so it’s not really worth the effort. This power would work better on an Hunter anyway.
I’ve been playing the ranger since it was released and it has always been my main. I went through all the mods and changes to the class, trying to adapt and helping out other rangers in several different guilds, writing guides and making tutorial videos when needed. I also did a lot of soloing for fun.
This is my perspective on the class based on this background and all the hours I spent in the game. I hope it could be helpful to start a discussion on the class and see what other players around think.
The focus is mostly on playstile and not so much on effectiveness. Effectiveness can be changed easily by tweaking numbers but playstile is much more subtle and personal and more related to the pure fun of playing a class.
All the discussion here below is PVE-based. I’m not expert enough in PVP to give sound feedback.
Historical view:
The original version of the ranger, called Stormwarden had three paths: Archery, Combat and Nature. They catered towards three archetypes: the archer, Drizzt Do’Urden and a kind of druid.
There was a strong focus on continuous stance changes and actually most rangers were using full- round rotations of six encounters. With power creep and the Royal Guard set, the reliance on encounters went up and in the late stages the Stormwarden had a playstile very similar to the later Trapper.
Two main builds were viable: a DPS Archer with some dips in Combat and the Nature ranger but practically only the first one was widely used. Builds were a mix of fire and forget powers (Rain of Arrows, Rain of Swords, Thorn Ward) and direct damage powers.
I played for a couple of months a Nature ranger and using the right feats it could substitute a cleric in most content but when things started to get difficult it was hard to stay on par with a DC. Support for the nature tree was taken away with the arrival of the Trapper but powers were not changed so we still have a number of nature powers that are completely useless (especially in the current version in Mod 16-17, with the nerf of Fox’s Cunning and the fact that people are usually capped for content).
With Mod 3 the Pathfinder paragon path came, together with the Trapper feat tree that substituted nature. With this change a new way of playing became the meta, based on a continuous rotation of encounters, roots, and Hunter’s Teamwork/Careful Attack.
Trapper stayed the meta for a long time, until Combat was buffed with a decent version of Blade Hurricane. Warden Melee is the evolution of Combat and is the current meta. The main reasons are Blade Hurricane, Storm’s Recovery and the existance of three hard-hitting melee powers with relatively low cooldowns (Boar’s Charge, Marauder’s Rush and Hindering Strike). This means that the current “performing” version of the Ranger is really hanging on a thin line.
POWER'S REVIEW:
AT-WILLS:
In general all ranger at-wills are pretty bad. This has been masked in the past by the fact that the class was played almost only with encounters, and today by the existance of Blade Hurricane for melee and to a lesser extent by Storm Conduit for ranged. Both these feats are on the Warden side, meaning that at-wills for Hunters are just plain bad. The lack of DPS on the Hunter mostly comes from the fact that there is no way to power up at-wills.
ENCOUNTERS:
Performing powers:
Hindering Shot/Hindering Strike: this is by far the best ranger power. Both sides apply roots and Hindering Strike has both high magnitude and hits an area.
Boar Hide/Boar Charge: the melee side is used because of the high magnitude and low cooldown. The ranged side is basically useless as normally everybody is capped on defense.
Marauder’s Escape/Rush: the melee part is used for the same reasons of Boar Charge and the ability to close range. The ranged side is unstable in aiming and the animation is usually canceled by jumping to avoid moving back. This goes against the original ranger concept of switching stance and using ranged powers at range and melee powers in melee.
Constricting Arrow/Steel Breeze: this power is used by Hunters as the ranged side has a good magnitude and applies roots and because Steel Breeze deals a decent damage in an area.
Longstrider Shot/Gushing Wound: with the changes on preview this is a good single-target power, even if it lost the appeal of the original version of Longstrider and Gushing Wound remains difficult to aim and place.
Powers with issues:
Cordon of Arrows/Plant Growth: the main issue of this power has always been the cooldown of the melee side. Old style trappers were able to cope with that due to Swiftness of the Fox reducing cooldowns dramatically and the high damage of Plant Growth at the time, with a different type of roots that stacked with Thorned Roots, made it a viable solution. As of today Plant Growth is seriously underperforming and Cordon of Arrows not good enough to be slotted.
Rain of Arrows/Rain of Swords: this is another power plagued by design issues from the beginning. Rain of Arrows has a small area and works only on static targets. Magnitude is low. Rain of Swords magnitude is really low too. Both powers have no added effects. By the way Rain of Swords have been used in the past only when it was needed to proc certain effects (like cooldowns reduction on crits with the Royal Guard armor set).
Ambush/Bear Trap: Bear Trap is very small and complex to place. Ambush is nice but the power as a whole is underperforming for most builds. Since this power appeared I’ve never seen it used by anyone in PVE.
Hawk Shot/Hawk Eye: Hawk Shot is not really interesting enough for trash and plain bad for single target. Hawk Eye could be a good power for a Nature build with some feat/feature support (Primal Instincts is simply not enough).
Commanding Shot/Stag Heart: this was a Nature power. Commanding shot is probably worth only in trials where you may have 6-8 dps, but in dungeons it’s not likely that somebody will slot it. Stag Heart is missing feat support as all other nature powers.
Rapid Volley/Windwalk Strike: Rapid Volley is not a bad power for trash, still magnitude is too low. Windwalk is nice for the movement side bud damage is really too low. Compare a Warden with Marauder’s Rush and Hindering Strike vs. an Hunter trying to do something similar with Rapid Volley and Windwalker Strike…
Split the Sky/Throw Caution: Split the Sky is potentially not a bad power but only for prolonged fights. Most trash fights are very fast and even in prolonged fights there are better options. Going back to the old version of Split the Sky with a lower magnitude would make it much more viable (i.e. all enemies under the cloud were hit by lightning when hitting a target).
Fox’s Cunning/Fox Shift: this was by design a nature power. It gave free automatic dodges and slowed down enemies. The original version of Fox Shift dealt a lot of damage too and made the whole power a staple in PVP. Now no nature tree is available and the damage of Fox Shift is pitiful. Free dodges have been substituted by 10% damage resistance which would not be bad in some situations (mainly trials) but this goes vs a substantial loss in DPS.
Binding Arrow/Oak Skin: this was again a nature power. No ranger will use it for the healing side and while the ranged damage is nice, it doesn’t make sense to have a roots power on the Warden while all feat support for roots is on the Hunter.
Thorn Ward/Thorn Strike: Thorn Ward is a nice single-target power but the cooldown is very long and the damage of Thorn Strike is really low. By the way this power is in the Warden, which is currently played as melee. To keep up Thorn Ward you need to switch to Ranged stance, resetting the bonus from Focused, so it’s not really worth the effort. This power would work better on an Hunter anyway.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Post edited by gabrieldourden on
5
Comments
As of today I see only two daily powers used: Disruptive Strike by Hunters and Call of the Storm by Wardens.
Disruptive Strike applied 4 times gets close to the damage of 100% AP powers, procs More Than Disruptive, and activates all daily-related set and insignia bonuses 4 times more often.
Call of the Storm adds a lot of damage, especially with Enhanced Conductivity.
All the rest is pretty much trash compared to these two.
CLASS FEATURES:
Performing features:
Seeker’s Vengeance: works fine for single target fights and is not bad for trash if you can get good positioning.
Grasping Roots: increases roots damage against trash and simplifies trash fight with control. Pretty good also for solo play for the same reasons.
Aspect of the Serpent: works fine with full rotations.
Aspect of the Falcon: works fine but kind of defies the idea of changing stances and postions it was built for. This should be an Archer feature and archers should not typically shoot in melee.
Blade Storm: works fine for melee.
Underperforming Features:
Aspect of the Pack: normally you are capped. Would be better to add critical severity.
Twin Blade Storm: not bad for trash melee fights. Quite situational anyway as you have to hit at least three targets
Stormstep action: decent but could definitely be better.
Aspect of the Lone Wolf: this is simply too low to make any use of it. In groups you will look for DPS so you don’t want it, in solo play it doesn’t make any difference. Maybe it’s useful for PVP but I’m not sure even there.
Cruel recovery: healing myself 1% every two seconds (if I crit) when everything in dungeons can take 25% or more of my life and even in Avernus I can lose 25% of my life in one second? It’s plain useless. Cruel recovery has never been on the radar of any PVE HR since it appeared. I didn’t use it even when I was soloing dungeons.
Pathfinder’s Action: for an Hunter it is better than Aspect of the Lone Wolf, but still I don’t see any use for it in PVE. Maybe in PVP.
Primal Instincts: this is the only Nature-related feat but first of all no HR today will play a Nature build as there is no support at all for it, and second the improvements given by this feature are too small to make any difference.
FEATS:
I’m not entering into a feats discussion as I think that a complete re-haul has to be done on those.
PROPOSAL FOR A CLASS BALANCE PASS:
1) Identify the playstile archetypes to be supported. Given the current 2 Paths + 2 Feat lines approach in the game you can probably support only 4 of those.
As an example we could identify (please take this as an example and don’t shout at me if you don’t agree with this list):
Archer: this ranger focuses on ranged stance powers. Melee powers should be a complement.
Melee: this ranger focuses on melee stance. Ranged powers should be a complement.
Trapper: the trapper focuses on a continuous encounter rotation with the use of rooting powers.
Nature: nature focuses of a continuos rotation of encounter powers with buffing effect.
We could assign the first two archetypes to Warden and have two lines of feats, one supporting ranged powers and one supporting melee. The original Stormwarden could be recreated by mixing those. Warden would then be a full DPS path where people can either stay in one stance or mix and match ranged and melee.
The other two archetypes could be assigned to Hunter. Feats in this area should revolve around cooldown reductions, roots and buffing powers. In this way Hunter becomes a DPS/Support tree, with full DPS if all roots feats are taken, full support if all support feats are taken, and mixed with a mix.
Powers and class features should be reassigned and reviewed according to this logic. Oviously choosing a different list of archetypes will bring to a different set-up but the overall logic should stay.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
What I miss is not only the clear distinction between paths, at least between Trapper/Combat, but also a bit of new content that different builds can shine in. Now, it only boils down to best dps / highest paingiver, and some mods ago a good trapper was still better as the basic combat, and even more mods ago it was the best thing to run, but what it is lacking, or what Neverwinter is lacking, imo in group play, is a bit of assigning jobs to better suited dps. Not only the root/cc aspect, but that too.
As in, I'm not an D&D expert, but I would think that HR (especially Trapper) and CW and TR all trying to rock a ST boss fight on similar numbers lacks something.
There was content with hoards of mobs and some bosses, and it evens out if one class/one path is better on Mobs/AOE and the other on ST. (As in, comparing dps of classes between mob/boss phases in older dungeons or Lomm) The heavy focus we have on Tomm and trying to compare everything to it does not do the classes any justice.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Generally speaking, I personally think that Ranger is in the best shape of all the classes, and no other class has the versatility for multiple playstyles and builds that this class offers. If you want to play pure melee, go Melee Warden; if you prefer a pure ranged playstyle, either Archer Warden or Archer Hunter are viable builds. You want to play a trapper style build, then play a hybrid hunter.
I've played both the trapper and melee builds in prior mods, and I played melee warden throughout Mod 16. I started experimenting around, and now I play archer warden exclusively.
I think a large part of the problem isn't with the game design changes, but with the fact that all too many players get "stuck" in a particular playstyle and can't adapt to the changes in the game. Too often, someone will proclaim, "This is the meta" and nothing else is deemed viable so people don't experiment or try something different. They build towards the "meta" and when the game changes, the "meta" is no longer the preferred playstyle--and then people get upset because they are unable or unwilling to adapt.
Can there be some tweaks? Sure. I've love to see Aspect of the Pack grant combat advantage again, and I would really like Blade Storm to work with ranged damage as well as melee. Tweaks. Not a major overhaul of the class.
As far as I'm concerned, Ranger may well be in the best shape it has ever been.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Only one, warden melee. It's outperforming every others playstyle, that's not because of a meta or what so ever, that's just a fact.
I would like to use my bow again, really... skins are far more beautiful than blades...
that whole thing in the ama with the other dev going on about all the ways a hr could play was like... you don't play an end game hr do you? you're back in the levelling que still... I can tell. lol
Most of the time, you encounter a pack of 5-6 enemies, you pressed an encounter or two, and went along your merry way.
For most boss fights released since Mod 6, the game locks you in a big wide arena with a boss, with no adds. In the rare circumstances you do have adds, they spawn in small numbers (2-5) for a boss gimmick and you just simply divert your attention to them before resuming the beatdown on the boss. I was half joking with @thefiresidecat that maybe Ranger should get a quiver offhand which disables the melee encounters but confers +30% bonus damage on ranged attacks and -3 seconds base cooldown on ranged encounter powers.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
They deliberately and explicitly dumbed down character build options and game play. It stands to reason that they'd design content that reflects this shift; can you imagine the outrage from the community if they snuck the need to kite/control mobs at boss fights -- in addition to the ones Gabriel mentions, the original Castle Never comes to mind -- and no class was able to focus on control?
It always stuck me as silly to have two paths that didn't have separate roles, but the dps/tank/healer trinity precludes some classes from being anything other than dps. Adding controller as a fourth role would fix this, but, if the content remains the same, it would be pointless.
RD
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
If people actually took the time to understand how the archery powers actually worked, they would soon realize that it is *way* more effective than melee warden. But they don't. They try to use the same mentality that works for melee on archer, and when it doesn't work, they say that it *can't* be as good (if not better) than melee.
But, uh, yeah, officially...melee is better. Nothing to see over here with us archers. We suck. Please look elsewhere and leave us alone, lol.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80