Single Player Dungeons

ukbeef

I think it's high time you starting making Single Player Dungeons. Especially with the dying player base. Plus it'll be easier for you to do. Something like MEs with runes difficulty and you can get some good rewards from the chest, enchanting stones, companions etc... Keep us endgamers happy...
Just my 2 cents...

autumnwitch

I have to admit about half of my characters weren't able to complete all of the below level 70 campaigns because there is no one running dungeons any more and I really miss them too!

Sad

ukbeef

Yeah plus it might draw in more players if they go the route of single player stuff for good rewards. I think MEs was a good idea and I do them on my own although the RNG is still bad. And once the Player base gets larger they can then do more Group content. Played the game for years and about 70% of my friends have left... Sad times indeed. Hopefully Chris can turn it around. Here's hoping...

greywynd

Single-player dungeons tend to be the zone lairs.

froger

greywynd said:

Single-player dungeons tend to be the zone lairs.

Yes, but I believe this thread is concerning queued content. Last time I leveled a toon I moved high level enchants / insignia from my main to be able to solo the content. I had to solo the content because there were no players to queue with. Sadly, not everyone can move high level enchants / insignia to do this. The result is many players missing out on content.

milehighxr

It's way too much of a hassle to move enchants, and runestones around. Not to mention the cost in gold. I do agree that getting into qs(esp as a dps) is really time consuming sometimes. My tank, and my healers get qs within 5min or less most days. My dps classes usually have to wait at least 10 min or more. I sometimes get 4-5 quests done with those guys while they wait for a q.

My typical farming (without doing expeditions) looks like this:

get invocations done if possible
tank in trial and pray I get edemo(tiamat is a failure way too frequently)
healer next in epic dungeon(I use a warlock, and no one complains)
run cleric healer in dungeon q(hes still pretty low level)
once my rogue, and wizard hit about 50k bonus they farm until they're out when I have a good high bonus I can pull almost 80k rad from edemo when I can open both chests.
every toon that can runs arcane reservoir, red wizards, and big grins tomb once per week, total of 13.5k for the week on each one.

It would be nice sometimes to be able to farm my rad solo, and still get good drops as well, but be able to get 100k in a similar amount of time as when I run with groups. I usually can get 100k from randos in about 90min tops with 2-3 toons running randos.

I use 1 rune MEs, WEs, and FEs for when I don't feel like waiting for others people. The issue with that is that it would take 6-8 hours on 5 toons min to get to 100k. Not to mention the time to farm chaos resonance so to increase the rad. My RNG is about the same in the expeditions when as when I run with a group or solo.

ukbeef

Glad you guys agree... It defo would benefit us guys. My mains are a Tank and a Healer 26k each and while it is easier to que some of the groups are god damn awful. (not their fault I know). But it would be a dream for me to run solo Dungeons esp the old ones they got rid of, as a solo dungeon. Sure they could do it.
Just something different to try and entice players back into the game. And also a way for the new guys to learn and get better.
Again... Just my 2 cents...

greywynd

froger#9967 said:

Yes, but I believe this thread is concerning queued content. Last time I leveled a toon I moved high level enchants / insignia from my main to be able to solo the content. I had to solo the content because there were no players to queue with. Sadly, not everyone can move high level enchants / insignia to do this. The result is many players missing out on content.

Queue private and go.

ukbeef

Greywnd that's not what I was on about nor is the answer. But thanks for stopping by.
I was on about specific solo Dungeons with rewards like enchanting stones, companions, transmute, etc that are specific to that dungeon.
Solo Dungeons would be easier to develop anyway and with the drop in player base would be ideal.

mordekai

How would you suggest they get round the DPS vs Support disparity?

I have 9 toons mostly around the 19-21K mark. My Cleric is a third tier alt who has little to no support on the Arbiter Loadout since I use that character as a Healer. So all companions, mount bonuses, artifacts etc are about Outgoing Heal and Crit. (Her ArPen, and Accuracy are truly abysmal.)

So compared to my Barbarian, who is about 1500IL lower than my Cleric, my Arbiter build has about 60% of the DPS of my Barbarian who is built only for DPS and hasn't even got a Tank loadout. My cleric healer build has zero DPS, (Literally... I run that toon with no offensive capabilities and usually score 0 on paingiver).

Likewise, my Fighter has similar hand me down gear that accommodates Tanking, but his 20K IL is all about the Blocking and while the IL numbers are the same on both loadouts, his DPS is shocking.

Would the Solo Dungeon challenge be too much for Support or too easy for DPS?

How would this be addressed?

rickcase276

I would say that the solo dungeons should be at the same difficulty level that the zone the dungeon is attached to has. So if you can do the zone, you can do the dungeon. Truly they should make solo versions of all current dungeons we have now, that are the same difficulty, or even just slightly higher than the zones/campaigns they are attached to.

It would afford those that don't like, can't run, or just don't have time to run group content an option to at least finish the storylines in the game.

milehighxr

greywynd said:

froger#9967 said:

Yes, but I believe this thread is concerning queued content. Last time I leveled a toon I moved high level enchants / insignia from my main to be able to solo the content. I had to solo the content because there were no players to queue with. Sadly, not everyone can move high level enchants / insignia to do this. The result is many players missing out on content.

Queue private and go.

I'm pretty sure you can't farm rad that way. I sure wouldn't. My tank can do a 1 rune me in about 50-60min. My dps toons(warlock/wizard) can do the same in 40min IIRC. I haven't done it in a while, as when I do a group it goes way fasterer.

milehighxr

ukbeef said:

Glad you guys agree... It defo would benefit us guys. My mains are a Tank and a Healer 26k each and while it is easier to que some of the groups are god damn awful. (not their fault I know). But it would be a dream for me to run solo Dungeons esp the old ones they got rid of, as a solo dungeon. Sure they could do it.

Just something different to try and entice players back into the game. And also a way for the new guys to learn and get better.

Again... Just my 2 cents...

I gave up on REQ today with my healock, he's not ideal, but he can do 4 tales runs with only one or 2 deaths IIRC. And that was with only 2 outgoing healing comps, and both only at green.

And yes, it is their fault sometimes. I have tried to be as nice as chat can convey, to make suggestions and such and they won't listen or tell me to "pound sand" cuz I'm not an elitist snob at 26k + IL. I just don't understand why they're all running dark enchants in their utility slots... I know these are people that had them for speed back pre mod 16 and didn't bother to replace em even with r8 tacticals. As soon as I started getting tacticals in lock boxes the darks came out of the utility slots.

jimmypdt

milehighxr#1299 said:

ukbeef said:

Glad you guys agree... It defo would benefit us guys. My mains are a Tank and a Healer 26k each and while it is easier to que some of the groups are god damn awful. (not their fault I know). But it would be a dream for me to run solo Dungeons esp the old ones they got rid of, as a solo dungeon. Sure they could do it.

Just something different to try and entice players back into the game. And also a way for the new guys to learn and get better.

Again... Just my 2 cents...

I gave up on REQ today with my healock, he's not ideal, but he can do 4 tales runs with only one or 2 deaths IIRC. And that was with only 2 outgoing healing comps, and both only at green.

And yes, it is their fault sometimes. I have tried to be as nice as chat can convey, to make suggestions and such and they won't listen or tell me to "pound sand" cuz I'm not an elitist snob at 26k + IL. I just don't understand why they're all running dark enchants in their utility slots... I know these are people that had them for speed back pre mod 16 and didn't bother to replace em even with r8 tacticals. As soon as I started getting tacticals in lock boxes the darks came out of the utility slots.

We they could be going off of an old build pre mod 16 (i've seen it before. They get really confused about the feats lol). Or they don't know about tacticals or how important they are. Or they are trying to hit their stat caps using their companion. Unfortunately it could be a lot of different things. Anything is possible.

All the best,
OPTank_

ecrana

Or they're horrible players. Or they're on alts and don't care enough. Or there's a million excuses for bad players and at the end of the day random Q's have turned into a coin flip. Its either good with competent people or a complete dumpster fire.

plasticbat

milehighxr#1299 said:

greywynd said:

froger#9967 said:

Yes, but I believe this thread is concerning queued content. Last time I leveled a toon I moved high level enchants / insignia from my main to be able to solo the content. I had to solo the content because there were no players to queue with. Sadly, not everyone can move high level enchants / insignia to do this. The result is many players missing out on content.

Queue private and go.

I'm pretty sure you can't farm rad that way. I sure wouldn't. My tank can do a 1 rune me in about 50-60min. My dps toons(warlock/wizard) can do the same in 40min IIRC. I haven't done it in a while, as when I do a group it goes way fasterer.

You cannot farm rAD that way because of RQ. Before RQ, that was the way to earn rAD. Private solo queue, private party of 2, 3, 4, 5 queue with the choice of your dungeon (not random), etc. That was the great time. That is why I hate RQ and do not do it.

I want those 5 TR runs, 5 DC runs, 5 Tanks runs, ... 5 no armour runs, etc, back.

greywynd

plasticbat said:

You cannot farm rAD that way because of RQ. Before RQ, that was the way to earn rAD. Private solo queue, private party of 2, 3, 4, 5 queue with the choice of your dungeon (not random), etc. That was the great time. That is why I hate RQ and do not do it.

I want those 5 TR runs, 5 DC runs, 5 Tanks runs, ... 5 no armour runs, etc, back.

Isn't that what the K-Team is for?

mordekai

rickcase276 said:

I would say that the solo dungeons should be at the same difficulty level that the zone the dungeon is attached to has. So if you can do the zone, you can do the dungeon. Truly they should make solo versions of all current dungeons we have now, that are the same difficulty, or even just slightly higher than the zones/campaigns they are attached to.

It would afford those that don't like, can't run, or just don't have time to run group content an option to at least finish the storylines in the game.

If the solo Dungeons were that easy, (which they would be for even moderately adequate DPS) then the rewards would simply HAVE to reflect that same difficulty. In other words it would be just the same as running the lair quests.
The effort to reward ratio has to be maintained.
For instance, running a solo version of Malabogs Tower would have the same monster stats as say the third tier of Sharandar, therefore the rewards should be no better that Celadains Tower. Maybe a few more Gold, XP and RP but there should not be any really good rewards for something that would be easy for DPS.

mordekai

plasticbat said:

milehighxr#1299 said:

greywynd said:

froger#9967 said:

Yes, but I believe this thread is concerning queued content. Last time I leveled a toon I moved high level enchants / insignia from my main to be able to solo the content. I had to solo the content because there were no players to queue with. Sadly, not everyone can move high level enchants / insignia to do this. The result is many players missing out on content.

Queue private and go.

I'm pretty sure you can't farm rad that way. I sure wouldn't. My tank can do a 1 rune me in about 50-60min. My dps toons(warlock/wizard) can do the same in 40min IIRC. I haven't done it in a while, as when I do a group it goes way fasterer.

You cannot farm rAD that way because of RQ. Before RQ, that was the way to earn rAD. Private solo queue, private party of 2, 3, 4, 5 queue with the choice of your dungeon (not random), etc. That was the great time. That is why I hate RQ and do not do it.

I want those 5 TR runs, 5 DC runs, 5 Tanks runs, ... 5 no armour runs, etc, back.

But if they opened up solo queues to farm AD that would be like sending a gold embossed invitation to Bot dungeons for AD.

There isn't any way for the game to identify bots beyond really the players pointing them out and reporting them/booting them.

It's incredibly difficult to Bot an ME because of all the random elements involved.

But they are never going to reintroduce solo dungeon runs of any difficulty level that grants daily raD rewards beyond what you get out of the end chest. Because apart from diluting the pool of players for group content it is too open to abuse.

antok500

I did not run dungeons for rAD but for dungeoneering shards. My participation in dungeons has decreased with each change to the random queues and finally ended with the last changes to the queues. Looking at the stagnant coffer total for dungeoneering I am not alone in my guild. It is not clear to me why the decision was taken to tie dungeoneering with rAD to the random queues. Supply is, after all, limited by the daily cleric quest and does not need to be further limited by gating behind the random queue.

plasticbat

milehighxr#1299 said:

greywynd said:

froger#9967 said:

Yes, but I believe this thread is concerning queued content. Last time I leveled a toon I moved high level enchants / insignia from my main to be able to solo the content. I had to solo the content because there were no players to queue with. Sadly, not everyone can move high level enchants / insignia to do this. The result is many players missing out on content.

Queue private and go.

I'm pretty sure you can't farm rad that way. I sure wouldn't. My tank can do a 1 rune me in about 50-60min. My dps toons(warlock/wizard) can do the same in 40min IIRC. I haven't done it in a while, as when I do a group it goes way fasterer.

There are bots in the current RQ already. If you mean allowing solo queue to get rAD would make botting easier, yes. Making the botting less complicated to do, yes. But, that was already done. At least, in PC.

plasticbat

antok500#4237 said:

I did not run dungeons for rAD but for dungeoneering shards. My participation in dungeons has decreased with each change to the random queues and finally ended with the last changes to the queues. Looking at the stagnant coffer total for dungeoneering I am not alone in my guild. It is not clear to me why the decision was taken to tie dungeoneering with rAD to the random queues. Supply is, after all, limited by the daily cleric quest and does not need to be further limited by gating behind the random queue.

The problem is not about oneself does not care about getting rAD. I personally don't care about getting rAD from dungeon neither. However, I cannot easily find a group of people who are in the same mind set (do private queue and not getting rAD) all the time and are willing to do that many times.

milehighxr

plasticbat said:

antok500#4237 said:

I did not run dungeons for rAD but for dungeoneering shards. My participation in dungeons has decreased with each change to the random queues and finally ended with the last changes to the queues. Looking at the stagnant coffer total for dungeoneering I am not alone in my guild. It is not clear to me why the decision was taken to tie dungeoneering with rAD to the random queues. Supply is, after all, limited by the daily cleric quest and does not need to be further limited by gating behind the random queue.

The problem is not about oneself does not care about getting rAD. I personally don't care about getting rAD from dungeon neither. However, I cannot easily find a group of people who are in the same mind set (do private queue and not getting rAD) all the time and are willing to do that many times.

Aside from rAD I can't see running any group content unless someone needs help with something specific from my guild/ally. ToMM has the items to go for, but the rings are so cheap now that I can buy almost one copy of all the epics for every toon I have. The difference in stats and IL of the legendarys aren't worth the AD, or effort to run/try to run ToMM IMHO. As soon as my pally was able to run ToMM I tried for 3 weeks, and got into a few failed runs. But most of those were failures because people dropped immediately after the first respawn.

I've given up on ToMM until mod 18, or 19 as now for me it is "just another notch in the old bedpost" and doesn't offer anything that I feel is rewarding for my builds. The Lionheart set bonus is lackluster(IIRC haven't looked at it recently). Heck my healock is still running epic primal weapons as that set bonus is good for his build, and on the dps loadout they are good enough. He does have mountaineer weapons also at epic, but I don't have enough enchants to justify using those on the dps loadout, since the primals are good enough.

And we all know, that better is the enemy of good enough...

mordekai

If the issue is to do with campaign completion, then it's probably worth taking a look at the Driftwood Tavern stream that Julia did with Chris a couple of weeks ago.

In that he talks about when he was working on another game, and a player asked for solo Trials. After some discussion, the player explained that they wanted it because they couldn't complete the campaigns without the Trials, and were either unable to match a group up, or just hated trials, I don't recall which...

But Chris and his team realised that they had to take another look at the route to completing the campaigns. Rather than the massive outlay in time, money and resources of making solo versions for people who couldn't find the players to run cooperative trials, or simply didn't like that part of the game, they looked at other ways for them to complete the campaigns offering options rather than a forced linear narrative.

So...
IF you are wanting solo dungeons for campaign completion, it's definitely worth raising the issue of Campaign Completion routes with Chris et al, maybe through the CDP. It certainly looks like that is an element of the game he is keen on addressing.

But if you want solo dungeons to bypass the route of grouped RQ to get your daily rAD bonuses, I'd suggest that you will be facing a very long and ultimately fruitless battle. The reasons not to do it just outweigh the reasons in favour of it.

ukbeef

Glad people have got involved with this lol...
Anyway, no, it's not about AD as I have over 10 toons and make AD easily so no.
Its about having something to do, something to aquire, either trans mutes, Enchanting stones, special companions, etc. The idea of farming a solo dungeon for any of these items would appeal to me and I'm sure some other players.
I, like so many players nowadays, play solo 90% of the time so would love having something to do other than the daily dungs (sometimes with awful players) and MEs...
I'm not an Elitist, just a long time player bored to death and looking for something to do meaningful solo... That's all...
And I don't mean something too difficult like soloing Tong ha ha

littledanger

ukbeef said:

Glad people have got involved with this lol...

Anyway, no, it's not about AD as I have over 10 toons and make AD easily so no.

Its about having something to do, something to aquire, either trans mutes, Enchanting stones, special companions, etc. The idea of farming a solo dungeon for any of these items would appeal to me and I'm sure some other players.

I, like so many players nowadays, play solo 90% of the time so would love having something to do other than the daily dungs (sometimes with awful players) and MEs...

I'm not an Elitist, just a long time player bored to death and looking for something to do meaningful solo... That's all...

And I don't mean something too difficult like soloing Tong ha ha

One of the worst, if not worst mistakes ever made in this game was removing the option to solo Q and earn rough AD. It removed speed runners, those that were advantage could run lower level content and help, and if you wanted Q along for the hell of it you could.

greywynd

littledanger#4115 said:

One of the worst, if not worst mistakes ever made in this game was removing the option to solo Q and earn rough AD. It removed speed runners, those that were advantage could run lower level content and help, and if you wanted Q along for the hell of it you could.

It was made that way because the queues were left hanging for other players.