DC vs. OP

iimrpomii

Hi. I have serious concerns about OP shielding players vs DC healing AFTER (the big IF) the health goes down.

DC can't heal if OP shields never let the HP drop in the first place or quickly put up the shield back on. The shield is the main reason why people prefer to take OP heals in dungeons while excluding DC heals (and warlocks heals, too). The new content is specifically being designed to let the players take a lot of damage pretty quickly. DCs can't heal the entire team that fast, while OPs can- just put on a shield and you are ready to conquer the dungeon.

Please, consider giving some love to DC heals and give them 1 shield move or improve the healing word SIGNIFICANTLY. At least, admit that there is a problem, here. Thank you.

jimmypdt

OPs has shields to make up for their low healing abilities. Where DCs have much higher healing ones. When you see a health bar turn mostly blue from an OP its because of a feat that doubles the shield on a crit (not the amount healed). So OPs are healing less than DCs but make up for it with a shield.
Having both in a group is a huge boost to DPS ( well was till the Demo nerf) since the DC would keep you at full HP and the OP would give a protective shield so you don't loose HP.
I wish you the best

iimrpomii

jimmypdt said:

OPs has shields to make up for their low healing abilities. Where DCs have much higher healing ones. When you see a health bar turn mostly blue from an OP its because of a feat that doubles the shield on a crit (not the amount healed). So OPs are healing less than DCs but make up for it with a shield.
Having both in a group is a huge boost to DPS ( well was till the Demo nerf) since the DC would keep you at full HP and the OP would give a protective shield so you don't loose HP.
I wish you the best

I know what you mean. What I am arguing is why would people take a healer that only heals after their health goes down? Why not just take the one who always ensures you are safe, which in itself provides a BIG relief to the mind, not to mention ops can recharge after they have put on the shield which gets reduced with time or when the damage is taken while the DC starts recharging right after healing while the damage keeps coming so they have to heal even more resulting in losing more divinity.

The new content is centered around taking more damage. It is almost impossible for the DC to keep the whole party alive when multiple players are taking the damage from different sides. SW healer stands no chance. Surely, OP shields not only provide assurance of absorbing damage, but it also allow them to cast shields before the battle even starts.

ecrana

I'm going to break this down from my viewpoint, since I run all 3, and I feel like you're making blanket statements that are not completely true even thought there is some truth to them.

Healadin - While the healadin CAN put a big shield on you, that revolves a feat that takes rng to proc. So I've had runs where I may proc crit touch frequently and keep those shield up frequently. But I've also had runs where crit touch barely procs and I've been forced to use my low magnitude heals to try to keep people alive because the shield you put out without crit touch is much smaller. So yes, healadin can put out big shields, but they can also put out small ones at a bad time and then scramble to heal on top of it with low heals. And they have to manage divinity just like a cleric.

Cleric - Yeah no shield boohoo. Highest heals around. Don't need a shield. If you're using healing word right you can basically go braindead while pushing out consistent heals. Bastion & healing word make things easier to stay topped off. Oh and unlike a healadin, if things go really wrong, intercession is a life saver.

Soulweaver - No shield, heals maybe not as bursty powerful as cleric but the heals are fairly constant and it offers something the other 2 don't. A 5% damage buff. So you give up a shield and burstier heals for a buff.

Each has strengths, weaknesses and different purposes but neither is vastly superior to the other unless your team just need an extra layer of security because they can't stay out of the red.

Do you run all three? I hope so because then I can at least give some credence to your statements. If not, you're just spamming out things about classes you know nothing about.

iimrpomii

ecrana#2080 said:

I'm going to break this down from my viewpoint, since I run all 3, and I feel like you're making blanket statements that are not completely true even thought there is some truth to them.

Healadin - While the healadin CAN put a big shield on you, that revolves a feat that takes rng to proc. So I've had runs where I may proc crit touch frequently and keep those shield up frequently. But I've also had runs where crit touch barely procs and I've been forced to use my low magnitude heals to try to keep people alive because the shield you put out without crit touch is much smaller. So yes, healadin can put out big shields, but they can also put out small ones at a bad time and then scramble to heal on top of it with low heals. And they have to manage divinity just like a cleric.

Cleric - Yeah no shield boohoo. Highest heals around. Don't need a shield. If you're using healing word right you can basically go braindead while pushing out consistent heals. Bastion & healing word make things easier to stay topped off. Oh and unlike a healadin, if things go really wrong, intercession is a life saver.

Soulweaver - No shield, heals maybe not as bursty powerful as cleric but the heals are fairly constant and it offers something the other 2 don't. A 5% damage buff. So you give up a shield and burstier heals for a buff.

Each has strengths, weaknesses and different purposes but neither is vastly superior to the other unless your team just need an extra layer of security because they can't stay out of the red.

Do you run all three? I hope so because then I can at least give some credence to your statements. If not, you're just spamming out things about classes you know nothing about.

I run DC heal and OP heal myself. I see a BIG difference between two. Yes, DCs have big heals but what is their point if the new content is being made to take such high damage? Have you run the new dungeon on preview? I have. And OP is definitely better there as it is better in TOMM. Why do you think people prefer to pick ops in new content, anyways? It's not a rocket-science.

sobi

They can make this simpler. Just make DC's buffers and SW's debuffers. It is no brainer.

aerhythia

sobi#1980 said:

They can make this simpler. Just make DC's buffers and SW's debuffers. It is no brainer.

Both classes have a buff available. OPs only buff is critical chance increase which is a ) useless once DPS are capped on critical strike and b) can't be picked along with the Aura that increases incoming and outgoing heals.

iimrpomii said:

I run DC heal and OP heal myself. I see a BIG difference between two. Yes, DCs have big heals but what is their point if the new content is being made to take such high damage? Have you run the new dungeon on preview? I have. And OP is definitely better there as it is better in TOMM. Why do you think people prefer to pick ops in new content, anyways? It's not a rocket-science.

I run both extensively too and if you look at LoMM and Tales of x4 and x5 Cleric does not only everything needed to keep players alive. You can even save your daily for emergencies and have not one or two but three to pick from depending on the situation. If you factor in the casting time OP dailies are nearly useless unless you know exactly what is going to happen during a boss fight and when.

I don't know why devs think enemies must be able to deal 1 million damage or higher. Compared to many other MMORPGs you can't really focus on the tank specifically which is where Cleric and Warlock Peacekeeper of whatever it's called shine. With a 50% critical chance it often takes 3 or 4 casts of Divine Touch to get a critical heal on the tank which means up to 400 divinity cost or more depending on RNG for something a Cleric does with one or two casts of Bastion (minus the barrier of course)

iimrpomii

aerhythia#3255 said:

sobi#1980 said:

They can make this simpler. Just make DC's buffers and SW's debuffers. It is no brainer.

Both classes have a buff available. OPs only buff is critical chance increase which is a ) useless once DPS are capped on critical strike and b) can't be picked along with the Aura that increases incoming and outgoing heals.

iimrpomii said:

I run DC heal and OP heal myself. I see a BIG difference between two. Yes, DCs have big heals but what is their point if the new content is being made to take such high damage? Have you run the new dungeon on preview? I have. And OP is definitely better there as it is better in TOMM. Why do you think people prefer to pick ops in new content, anyways? It's not a rocket-science.

I run both extensively too and if you look at LoMM and Tales of x4 and x5 Cleric does not only everything needed to keep players alive. You can even save your daily for emergencies and have not one or two but three to pick from depending on the situation. If you factor in the casting time OP dailies are nearly useless unless you know exactly what is going to happen during a boss fight and when.

I don't know why devs think enemies must be able to deal 1 million damage or higher. Compared to many other MMORPGs you can't really focus on the tank specifically which is where Cleric and Warlock Peacekeeper of whatever it's called shine. With a 50% critical chance it often takes 3 or 4 casts of Divine Touch to get a critical heal on the tank which means up to 400 divinity cost or more depending on RNG for something a Cleric does with one or two casts of Bastion (minus the barrier of course)

The truth is, OP's shields are way better than being healed after the HP goes down for these reasons:

1. Safe against 1 shots or near death circumstances = saving potions and scrolls.
2. Making the most of the combat advantage as shields assure players to stick to one place.
3. Less stressful fights as there are not many dodges and running for one's lives when HP gets reduced = less time.

I don't expect people to take in dc healer in the new dungeon or any upcoming group content only to waste scrolls and time. I've finished it on preview and it was not a pleasant experience.

aerhythia

iimrpomii said:

The truth is, OP's shields are way better than being healed after the HP goes down for these reasons:

1. Safe against 1 shots or near death circumstances = saving potions and scrolls.
2. Making the most of the combat advantage as shields assure players to stick to one place.
3. Less stressful fights as there are not many dodges and running for one's lives when HP gets reduced = less time.

I don't expect people to take in dc healer in the new dungeon or any upcoming group content only to waste scrolls and time. I've finished it on preview and it was not a pleasant experience.

I agree it's a problem with dungeon design but I find 3/4 of all content much less stressful as DC healer.

Endgame of course the shields combined with the fact that many players are build quite tanky (maxed defense, high HP and incoming healing which Cleric doesn't benefit as much from due to the already very high magnitude heals) makes Paladin heals & shields a good combination. The passive heals of Cleric and mitigation are not ideal, even when they are useful they are often too slow (heal over time) or clunky (astral shield)

krumple01

You guys are looking at this all wrong.

The problem is the design for these dungeons keep reverting back to one shot death mechanics. Which was a directly result of the devs realizing the player base were over powered so they attempted to make things harder by one shot death taking the party member out of play temporarily which increases the time to success or results in absolute failure.

The problem isn't the cleric healing, or the paladin shielding or quicker heals. The problem is the dungeon mechanics.

iimrpomii

krumple01 said:

You guys are looking at this all wrong.

The problem is the design for these dungeons keep reverting back to one shot death mechanics. Which was a directly result of the devs realizing the player base were over powered so they attempted to make things harder by one shot death taking the party member out of play temporarily which increases the time to success or results in absolute failure.

The problem isn't the cleric healing, or the paladin shielding or quicker heals. The problem is the dungeon mechanics.

Don't think they will make new dungeons free of 1 shots or near death hits. They said they would before the launch of mod16 to make healing an essential part of the game, but look where we are right now. They better give dc and sw shield attacks to break this confusing state of the game. I've invested in end game dc both as a healer and a dps, but both of them are not as good when compared to other classes. I might as well take a long break from the game until they have sorted things out than be stressful everyday, unsure of whether teams would take me in just to run the dungeons. I even feel bad for the friends who invite me and I can't play as efficiently as OP healer or other dps classes.