Mod 18 will Force players to leave game

mynaam
mynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 922 Arc User
I have been testing mod 18 and i must say i can see it causing players to leave in droves.

The good:
Campaign is fun
Campaign give Boon point

The Bad:

New dungeon is enemy rating of 35k that means TOMM is a easy trial compared to it (LOMM is 19k) ... they got tired of only 1% doing end game content so made it only 0.5% can do it

The campaign is way to hard. They have a new tier based enemies (shown by dot above head). Tier 1 monsters is fine Tier 4 is impossible for any non tomm players ... that is the campaign is not playable if you are not strong enough for tomm (this MUST be nerf this before live)

The campaign is yet again 1 hour a week campaign meaning you do entire campaign in 1 hour and wait 7 days to progress with nothing to do (Guess they want you to run ME's for 4 more months)

This mod is not ready to be released. If they do they will cause another player leak!
There are more than BIS players in this game
It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



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Comments

  • bruce55
    bruce55 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    I totally agree. Already looking for a new game to play
  • arazith07
    arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,442 Arc User
    You must have missed the dev post saying that higher rating doesn't mean the dungeon is more difficult. The dungeon is a lot easier than ToMM is. I would say it is only slightly more difficult than LoMM is. As far as what to do when you cap the weekly haul, you can farm the HEs for gear or try and kill the names devils around the map.
  • mongol69
    mongol69 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Current gear makes hitting caps easily attainable for new mod. Why would anyone expect another mod without increased stat ratings in comparrison to lomm or current content ratings?
  • bruce55
    bruce55 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    IM not talking about the dungeon. Its the questing in general. Mobs just run around and 2-3 hit you. massive stuns and knockback. Its worse than the hard levels of hellpit.
  • arazith07
    arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,442 Arc User
    bruce55 said:

    IM not talking about the dungeon. Its the questing in general. Mobs just run around and 2-3 hit you. massive stuns and knockback. Its worse than the hard levels of hellpit.

    The OP was taking about the dungeon, at least for part of their post.
    mynaam said:


    New dungeon is enemy rating of 35k that means TOMM is a easy trial compared to it (LOMM is 19k) ... they got tired of only 1% doing end game content so made it only 0.5% can do it
    This mod is not ready to be released. If they do they will cause another player leak!

    I do agree that the mobs in the new zone will 2-3 shot most players, but with ratings of 35k, players with less than 22k item level shouldn't be there without friends.

  • finmakin
    finmakin Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    sobi#1980 said:

    This will always remain an issue. What new players have to understand is that each campaign or dungeon release will be made harder and slowly nerfed so that it is accessible for the masses. Don't forget that those 1% you talk about have been in your shoes, vice versa, not so much.

    You need to realise that neverwinter is a progression based game. Each new dungeon must come with higher critter rating or be more difficult than its predecessor so that those who have spend time, money and effort in gearing up have something to look forward to.

    It is the same case with TOMM, it is made for each and every player. I repeat, TOMM is not forbidden for you, it is made for you when you meet the requirements. The way people are coming across in these forums, then could i call cryptic to fault if a lvl 5 player is unable to beat any dungeon in game? I guess cryptic should now make each mob weak enough to be killed by an at-will.

    Sorry, but you'll have to either gear up or get good or just wait for the new dungeon to be nerfed. You choose. I sound harsh because with this attitude of the community, we all might as well have no gear. The developers are looking for a way to find a way to make both sides happy, and i personally suggest a tier system for each dungeon, with better rewards for higher up tiers.

    With your statement, You hit the nail with an sledgehammer.

    Personally I work every day on my gear to stay (or improve) my current capabillities.
    Other players should do the same instead of an attempt to trick dev's into a new endless spiral by expecting to get all the good stuff on a silver platter.
    Not so long ago LoMM came out and funny thing is that the Everlasting complain Legion in PE were whining about it, it was impossible, it was too hard.
    Now I see same people running LoMM on daily base

    About a tier system.
    I completely agree with you, Cryptic should create this system... Easier tiers they can choose from (complete with adjusted rewards of course), and let the so called (hated) 1% elitist running their own thing..
    Luckily It's not the majority who is complaining, It's a small group of players who tries to form a free game to their wishes with their demand's



    Ogguk The Beholder… Justicar Paladin
    Puny Tank

    Guildleader of NWLC Alpha
  • mestrahd
    mestrahd Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    I will agree with OP on at least one point. I'm almost 25k without any guild boons, and I can only get around 2 stats over the 80k needed for TOMM at a time. So throw in an additional 5+k on each, and with current gearing options, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get there. So by their metrics, I would certainly "belong" there, but I feel I would still struggle with that dungeon.
  • darkheart#6758
    darkheart#6758 Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    > @finmakin said:
    > (Quote)
    > With your statement, You hit the nail with an sledgehammer.
    >
    > Personally I work every day on my gear to stay (or improve) my current capabillities.
    > Other players should do the same instead of an attempt to trick dev's into a new endless spiral by expecting to get all the good stuff on a silver platter.
    > Not so long ago LoMM came out and funny thing is that the Everlasting complain Legion in PE were whining about it, it was impossible, it was too hard.
    > Now I see same people running LoMM on daily base
    >
    > About a tier system.
    > I completely agree with you, Cryptic should create this system... Easier tiers they can choose from (complete with adjusted rewards of course), and let the so called (hated) 1% elitist running their own thing..
    > Luckily It's not the majority who is complaining, It's a small group of players who tries to form a free game to their wishes with their demand's

    Just to reply to your comment of it's not the majority complaining but a small group trying to form a free game to their wishes and demands.

    The same can be said of the 1% that want the game made to be a challenge to them and impossible to others(especially with class imbalance) and gear strictly for them to earn and then sell. I have no problem with a tiered system, but them sorry but make the rewards account bound the higher up, tired of seeing the rich get richer. And sorry TOMM is not for everyone until classes are balanced.
  • commanderdata002
    commanderdata002 Member Posts: 312 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    So dungeon isn't out and you already want it nerfed.
    Riiiiiight...

    We finished it at first btw. And already a 18 min run is out of it in youtube!
    stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
  • gabrieldourden
    gabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    sobi#1980 said:

    This will always remain an issue. What new players have to understand is that each campaign or dungeon release will be made harder and slowly nerfed so that it is accessible for the masses. Don't forget that those 1% you talk about have been in your shoes, vice versa, not so much.

    You need to realise that neverwinter is a progression based game. Each new dungeon must come with higher critter rating or be more difficult than its predecessor so that those who have spend time, money and effort in gearing up have something to look forward to.

    It is the same case with TOMM, it is made for each and every player. I repeat, TOMM is not forbidden for you, it is made for you when you meet the requirements. The way people are coming across in these forums, then could i call cryptic to fault if a lvl 5 player is unable to beat any dungeon in game? I guess cryptic should now make each mob weak enough to be killed by an at-will.

    Sorry, but you'll have to either gear up or get good or just wait for the new dungeon to be nerfed. You choose. I sound harsh because with this attitude of the community, we all might as well have no gear. The developers are looking for a way to find a way to make both sides happy, and i personally suggest a tier system for each dungeon, with better rewards for higher up tiers.

    I understand progression is part of the game but shouldn't be the end of it all. A game can be made wider instead of making it deeper. Just remember the original module of Neverwinter. Different dungeons gave different parts of a set, without one being more difficult than others (at least in terms of critter stats) and different sets were available offering separate approaches to optimization. New modules could be easily something like that, stopping the race and focusing on diversity, which is currently sorely missed as characters are mostly cookie cutter copies of each other.

    As of today NW is a race that only a small part of the player base can follow and all new content is basically aimed at that part of the player base. This is not how the game started and is the root of a constant bleedout of players.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • rev#7881
    rev#7881 Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    cooljinx said:

    So mod 16 overhaul was being explained as an attempt to stop the power creep, from what I remember.
    And the mod 16 dungeon is 20k ilvl requirement.
    Then the mod 17 trial came and is 24k ilvl requirement.
    And with the mod 18 they plan to introduce the 35k ilvl req dungeon.
    Please explain how it makes the power creep slow down?

    They are not introducing a 35k ilvl dungeon... the rating is 35k and that means you need 85k armor pen..etc as optimal stats (for the dungeon).

    By slowing down the power creep i meant increasing those stats (arp, crit, etc) so that it becomes harder to cap everything with only empowered/radiants in offense slots, i don't think it will change much, but it is what they are trying to accomplish


  • tchefi#6735
    tchefi#6735 Member Posts: 359 Arc User
    Just a question :
    Do people believe campaigns are necessarly solo content ?

    I mean... when i started neverwinter with my brother, we went as a duo through all the leveling maps, Elemental Evil, Sharandar, Dread Ring, Maze Engine, Icewindale and half SKT (split after lonelywood), + the start quests only for River District/Soshenstar/Omu/Barovia and finally all the Undermoutain campaign.

    Despite our duo made the campaigns difficulty quite trivial (OP+TR), it was much more enjoyable to play than going through all of that alone (not that we couldn't, technically...). Chating and enjoying the company of each other while discovering the various maps/mods/mobs/bosses in a relaxed way, laughing about silly bugs or A.I. behaviours, trying to find funny OOB, exploring and brainstorming together about "general strategy" (aka how to earn AD, so Zen, "en masse") or how to make every single of our activity an efficient one (aka hiting 2 or 3 birds with one stone), was the most enjoyable part of my time in NWO. Epic Dungeons, even together, not so fun (except maybe CR as we trained with a full discord guild group to understand by ourselves and get used to the mechanics until we defeated it).



    I imagine, as always, that the mod18 campaign is reasonnably soloable for anyone who have already finished every other campaigns (so who is probably stuffed with at the very least UM equipments).

    If you have trouble... maybe just group with friends, ally, guild or meet some new people in the zone... and enjoy questing together.
  • chimerax
    chimerax Member Posts: 204 Arc User

    sobi#1980 said:

    This will always remain an issue. What new players have to understand is that each campaign or dungeon release will be made harder and slowly nerfed so that it is accessible for the masses. Don't forget that those 1% you talk about have been in your shoes, vice versa, not so much.

    You need to realise that neverwinter is a progression based game. Each new dungeon must come with higher critter rating or be more difficult than its predecessor so that those who have spend time, money and effort in gearing up have something to look forward to.

    It is the same case with TOMM, it is made for each and every player. I repeat, TOMM is not forbidden for you, it is made for you when you meet the requirements. The way people are coming across in these forums, then could i call cryptic to fault if a lvl 5 player is unable to beat any dungeon in game? I guess cryptic should now make each mob weak enough to be killed by an at-will.

    Sorry, but you'll have to either gear up or get good or just wait for the new dungeon to be nerfed. You choose. I sound harsh because with this attitude of the community, we all might as well have no gear. The developers are looking for a way to find a way to make both sides happy, and i personally suggest a tier system for each dungeon, with better rewards for higher up tiers.

    I understand progression is part of the game but shouldn't be the end of it all. A game can be made wider instead of making it deeper. Just remember the original module of Neverwinter. Different dungeons gave different parts of a set, without one being more difficult than others (at least in terms of critter stats) and different sets were available offering separate approaches to optimization. New modules could be easily something like that, stopping the race and focusing on diversity, which is currently sorely missed as characters are mostly cookie cutter copies of each other.

    As of today NW is a race that only a small part of the player base can follow and all new content is basically aimed at that part of the player base. This is not how the game started and is the root of a constant bleedout of players.
    My guess in Cryptic's thinking is, there is already a ton of content for the lower Itlv geared people, with each new mod the older content get's easier, if they didn't keep producing newer harder content then THAT would cause people to leave the game.
  • the1truehunter
    the1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    That was intended to bring more players together. It is not a solo content even if you have to complete solo quests. I can agree with the fact that their way to develop content it is not playable by the all categories of players since there are people who just started, people who still get trough progression process and it is just unfair to wait until you'll be strong enough to get into this part of the content. In my opinion they should give the low level players/low geared players the chance to obtain a certain piece to fit what they require to progress. More diversified loot in dungeons, even older need a better structure that allows players to progress slowly but guaranteed. At this time you'll only enter, do dailies, get the rough AD and log-out because it doesn't worth to run a half hour scaled dungeon for 2 blood ruby and 5k rad. They should give people chance to craft their sets. I understand from my point of view that the actual structure confer a better way to keep economy in balance, but it doesn't purely feels enjoyable anymore after these modules where we were simply destroyed my some big mistakes. I am really sad about the fact it may be the end of Neverwinter soon if these procedures will continue happening like bad development decision, lack of content, lack of interest in updating the old one. We have 90% dead because there are items that no longer fits our builds, needs. Everyone want to level up fast, get BIS and run hardest dungeons and they forgot about the story, enjoying every part of the old content, because it is simply bad from any perspectives. Not the environment, the other things that make the player enjoy his adventure, getting compensated in his journey, spending his time, even his money. I spent over 1500$ in past few years because I used to love this game, and I still do, but there are changes that makes me day by day, thinking it is no longer worth my time. I truly hope with the new Executive Producer joining the team, they will mobilize and do some steps in the right way. One of these will be to focus on the most requested things by the community like bug fixes, class balance, new content that fits any type of players, new dungeons, interesting way to bring the old one back to life, no daily limited grid. And in the end I would like to mention the fact that there seems to start a micro transaction based strategy, I encourage you guys to find another way to get our money. And it would be more likely that we are going to pay your efforts offering us a good gameplay, than getting 2 mounts and leave after 2 weeks. Make it long term stay for both sides.
  • rafaelda
    rafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 662 Arc User
    chimerax said:

    sobi#1980 said:

    This will always remain an issue. What new players have to understand is that each campaign or dungeon release will be made harder and slowly nerfed so that it is accessible for the masses. Don't forget that those 1% you talk about have been in your shoes, vice versa, not so much.

    You need to realise that neverwinter is a progression based game. Each new dungeon must come with higher critter rating or be more difficult than its predecessor so that those who have spend time, money and effort in gearing up have something to look forward to.

    It is the same case with TOMM, it is made for each and every player. I repeat, TOMM is not forbidden for you, it is made for you when you meet the requirements. The way people are coming across in these forums, then could i call cryptic to fault if a lvl 5 player is unable to beat any dungeon in game? I guess cryptic should now make each mob weak enough to be killed by an at-will.

    Sorry, but you'll have to either gear up or get good or just wait for the new dungeon to be nerfed. You choose. I sound harsh because with this attitude of the community, we all might as well have no gear. The developers are looking for a way to find a way to make both sides happy, and i personally suggest a tier system for each dungeon, with better rewards for higher up tiers.

    I understand progression is part of the game but shouldn't be the end of it all. A game can be made wider instead of making it deeper. Just remember the original module of Neverwinter. Different dungeons gave different parts of a set, without one being more difficult than others (at least in terms of critter stats) and different sets were available offering separate approaches to optimization. New modules could be easily something like that, stopping the race and focusing on diversity, which is currently sorely missed as characters are mostly cookie cutter copies of each other.

    As of today NW is a race that only a small part of the player base can follow and all new content is basically aimed at that part of the player base. This is not how the game started and is the root of a constant bleedout of players.
    My guess in Cryptic's thinking is, there is already a ton of content for the lower Itlv geared people, with each new mod the older content get's easier, if they didn't keep producing newer harder content then THAT would cause people to leave the game.
    You just described Ravenloft (CRavenloft) and the last mod (with TOMM) also there is some stuff for other players to run like Hunts and MEs, and again we found that on this mod. i think they are looking at both groups in their way...

    Again we should have have a basic and a Master version of every content so everyone could finish the storyline
    and that Master version of all dungeons and skimishes should be for like 10% of the player not 1 place for 1% because is gets dull really fast...

    Theres only 2 reasons to work to reach and beat that dungeon:
    1 - To brag that you can do it (is fun is not a critic is that what game is about)
    2 - To complain that the gear you get there is only usefull there (because since scalling...)
  • dartmiller1
    dartmiller1 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    ppl leave the game because too small content with update. we waiting new modul 4 month and complete it for 1=2weeks. then waiting 4 month for new update again... HAMSTER... we need good content, we need more dungeons for farm in free time, we need good story in campaing and interesting quests. we want play but game is blank.
  • mynaam
    mynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 922 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    You must have missed the dev post saying that higher rating doesn't mean the dungeon is more difficult. The dungeon is a lot easier than ToMM is. I would say it is only slightly more difficult than LoMM is. As far as what to do when you cap the weekly haul, you can farm the HEs for gear or try and kill the names devils around the map.

    The dungeon is not my biggest concern. The fact that the vast majority CANNOT do the campaign is a terrible idea. Try doing the campaign on a 22k toon (i know you can get gear to level higher in the campaign, but you must do the campaign to get it.)

    It feels to me like no one in testing bothered to test this campaign in a non BIS character
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • giz#2086
    giz#2086 Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    edited December 2019

    So dungeon isn't out and you already want it nerfed.
    Riiiiiight...

    We finished it at first btw. And already a 18 min run is out of it in youtube!

    You're talking about Rainer's video? The one with all current meta classes? Ranger and Wizards as DPS? That video only shows what makes the game boring and people are leaving for...Class balance: If you're a Warlock, Fighter, etc you're condemned to play support because your class is useless as DPS. A game that forces players to play a specific role to be part of end game content is wrong. A lot of us are sick of the play healer/tank if you aren't a Wizard, Ranger or Rogue... Or play those classes if you want to play DPS (and devs contributes with this cocky mind set).