I would love to see good guide for rogue, mine is just rubbish, and is absolutely the hardest to play of all my toons that are over lvl 80.
I would say that the overall concepts are the same, but the main issue with TR, is that you need to keep track of the bleed timer, you set the bleed, use gloaming while the bleed ticks, and then you need to refresh it before it expires so you don't need to do 2 DFs.
With all the huge mess going around in ToMM for example, on PC you either set up ACT timers, or you can naturally keep track of this, or you switch to CW. At to this Wicked reminder timer, and if you are feeling extremely adventurous you can try to time the Dualesits Expertise feat proc (there is a floater that pops - though IMO it's impossible to time correctly into the debuff window in ToMM unless you are the one calling the artifact, so I used skull cracker there)
If you ask me personally, then my answer is that after 17 mods of playing TR, since few weeks ago my CW moved 0 to hero, now more geared than the Thread Opener. That would be the second time I actually do this, the first was to do the orignal CN in around mod 3.
Are you suggesting that 130k crit strike is too low? Where do I find the info that tells me how things like crit strike affect heals, or damage? This is a game, I shouldn't need a PhD to figure out how to play my toons.
Yes. Slap crit gear on the companion and everywhere where it's not a replacement for power (assuming ofc you cap critical avoidance and defense for tomm) But in general you want you critical strike high, as long as you don't hurt your power.
I've resigned myself to the fact that I won't get into ToMM with any of my toons until sometime in mod 18, or even as late as mod 19. Most of the people looking for groups on Xbox don't wanna take time to help a new guy thru it, not like with LoMM...
There is a huge difference between the two, in LoMM you can just carry, take the time explain on the go, redo if needed some boss, and let a new person learn on the way, in ToMM that is not practical, one collision on the magnets and the run fails.
I have 0 clue about consoles, but on PC there are training runs organized specifically so new people can learn, and then join in live runs.
Still people asked to go over a guide and or videos to at least be familiar with the mechanics, failing early is 10 people time wasted and the further a training run can go the better it is for everyone.
I'm surprised there have been so few threads lately from Wizards telling us not to believe our own lying eyes when they have been over performing for close to 2 full Modules now, usually forum expert Wizard players are much more vocal about not wanting to be balanced because *insert flawed reasoning here*.
Much laughter and head ache inducing confusion to be had, as per usual.
For example my Paladin is not top geared, and I'm sitting at about 150k power and 180k crit (pre buffs, pots and stuff).
I guess I'm gonna have to go back over my pally again, I'm no where near 150k power, or 100k crit. Not sure how I would do that without sacrificing HP, arpen, or defense...
I better get his bags empty, and start from scratch LOL
As far as training runs on xbox, I had on or 2 guilds in an aliance doing them, then interest in them fell or something, as now they don't happen. I know my pallys guild suffered some serious poaching, and was without an alliance for 2 weeks(it was against alliance rules to poach, yet it still happened...). I haven't seen anything since we got new ally, and even when we did have them I wasn't on when they were going on.
I really tried to find a single viable argument from your side, that's not even half ambiguous, and can be taken seriously enough to have a valid response. Your post seems to me like a bitter ramble, honestly. I have failed to find any logic in what you've written so far, nor how it applies to anything I've previously stated.
I will answer, however, since what you preach hold no relevance to the state of the game.
- More ppl started playing Wizards (*That's a fact*) - Phah. No, it isn't. How can you even make that conclusion? Based on your friend list? Do you have knowledge of the server's database, perchance? It amazes me that you can start a reply by laughing at what I've written, and come up with "More people playing wizards, ugh, m8 it's a fact". And then you expect to be taken seriously, perchance? Phah! - If you know a few people who switched to a Wizard class solely for the purpose of TOMM, that's their convenience and ease of access rather than the state of the game. Finding the most profitable path in less time spent on making a good build with other classes who, let's be honest, have far fewer people tinkering about. - I see same people playing Wizards as they did before. And, in fact, I see more people playing Rogues than before. I see less people playing Clerics. More people playing Healadins. But this hardly says anything about the state of the game. If you're good with one class, you play it and main it. People that switch classes will continue to switch classes regardless of what's current meta. - I do notice only one side stating how it's easy to play a Wizard as it's a "spam" thing, to which I disagree. More specifically since I'm not talking about Disintegrate meta, but about the entire history of Wizard class, to which I'm unsure how familiar you are. Given the responses, I'd say not really. If anything, real Wizard meta was always DoT damage. Icy Terrain, Conduit of Ice etc. Especially when Wizard was in the weakest state, tinkerers found a way to make it viable until devs said "hey guys, no more dots, k, ty". And each time Wizard lost anything between 10%-30% of total damage.
- I also disagree that there have been other classes, except Warlock, who had such drastic changes. Nerfing wizards became a thing that goes forever on and doesn't change. From Control to close range DPS to Buff to long range DPS. That's four different playstyles! Not even going to go into campfire switching. One of the main reasons why there is such a thing is because separate loadouts were needed between AoE/Single target. Changing entire playstyle just for the sake of having one spell that deals more damage/easier to maintain.
- "Wizard was never useless" - Let's not forget here a quintessential - "DPS" at the end of that sentence. If you say that Wizard was never useless as a DPS, I wholeheartedly disagree as I've several mods of proof that Wizard could never reach the amount of damage other classes had at the time. A quick question - how many times was Storm Spell nerfed?
- "Wizard was a monster 5 years ago due to a bug, so it's k" - Yeah, this logic is amazing.
Point stands that the Arcanist path was a good and viable option, not the best option for me as it doesn't really require much tinkering, but still a good option for many people. Nerfing Arcanist path is exactly the same like nerfing wizards in previous years, nerfing on a whim, rather than a careful analysis.
My another point is that any nerf on a whim, without careful analysis of the power combinations and the way they work, will effectively reduce entire class combat effectiveness.
Better yet, if Nerfs came just because of TOMM makes it so much more worse as there are a lot of people who never even got a chance to beat phase 1, let alone complete tomm to begin with.
And, lastly, switching to a class like a Wizard and thinking that you can just spam buttons and win in damage, is one of the stupidest things I've read on the forum. MANY have tried to play a Wizard when it did a lot of damage, and they were soon discouraged because of the amount of work the class needed. Among first things that a player who mains a tankier class fails at is - forgetting to dodge. I've seen this in the past years quite a lot. Not knowing to jump around. Not knowing when to strike. Asking for advice 5x times and then getting discouraged when they realize that although their build is flawless, although their damage is high, they just don't have enough experience nor feel comfortable enough playing a Wizard class as it takes a lot of micromanagement to really stand out on top. As I've said, a lot of smaller, easily overlooked tricks. So they play a few rounds, they feel good about themselves, but soon after when they meet with an experienced wizard, who does at least 50% more Paingiver than them, they switch back to a class they are more comfortable playing with. The end.
I've yet to find a person, let alone lots of them, who main a different class and then go like "Yeah, Wizard all the way". If you play a Wizard, you commit to that playstyle, because it takes so much time and effort to really make it shine DPS-wise and content-wise. In the best case scenario, such people are just exploiting an easy way to win based on what they've heard or seen.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
1
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I really tried to find a single viable argument from your side, that's not even half ambiguous, and can be taken seriously enough to have a valid response. Your post seems to me like a bitter ramble, honestly. I have failed to find any logic in what you've written so far, nor how it applies to anything I've previously stated.
1. Misspelling my handle shows the level of your maturity which is kindergarten at best. 2. If you want senseless ramble, you should take a look at your posts, at least I reply point by point. 3. If you can't understand, yet so many other can, what does it imply? Perhaps the fault is not in my posts, but in your comprehension?
- More ppl started playing Wizards (*That's a fact*) - Phah. No, it isn't. How can you even make that conclusion? Based on your friend list? Do you have knowledge of the server's database, perchance? It amazes me that you can start a reply by laughing at what I've written, and come up with "More people playing wizards, ugh, m8 it's a fact". And then you expect to be taken seriously, perchance? Phah!
You misquote, like you usually do and try to argue god know what. Sobi's statment was simple, People swapped to wizards. Not more not less, a simple fact.
Which is indeed a fact, I know many who swapped to wizard due to the advantages of higher single target dps and ranged class, I did so myself. And certain game play aspects.
- If you know a few people who switched to a Wizard class solely for the purpose of TOMM, that's their convenience and ease of access rather than the state of the game. Finding the most profitable path in less time spent on making a good build with other classes who, let's be honest, have far fewer people tinkering about.
And on what is this based on? Ease of access? Profitable? Gearing a dps class from 0 to a top level costs millions upon millions. Less time than making a good build for another class? You will teach me about builds... I'm all ears for a comprehensive rogue build I didn't know before, one that will have the same target uptime as ranged CW, and without counting bleed timers or the need to have ACT trigger to do so. Because well, on CW, I don't have this complication.
- I see same people playing Wizards as they did before. And, in fact, I see more people playing Rogues than before. I see less people playing Clerics. More people playing Healadins. But this hardly says anything about the state of the game.
What exactly you argue here? If you see some people X or Y, what exactly you argue here? Do you make ToMM groups?
- I do notice only one side stating how it's easy to play a Wizard as it's a "spam" thing, to which I disagree. More specifically since I'm not talking about Disintegrate meta, but about the entire history of Wizard class, to which I'm unsure how familiar you are. Given the responses, I'd say not really. If anything, real Wizard meta was always DoT damage. Icy Terrain, Conduit of Ice etc. Especially when Wizard was in the weakest state, tinkerers found a way to make it viable until devs said "hey guys, no more dots, k, ty". And each time Wizard lost anything between 10%-30% of total damage.
Not familiar, yeah... I will say that you are the not familiar with any other class. I will more so say that you are not really familiar with CW either. I have a good feeling that I will outdps you, with my only not above average skill on CW.
Anything you claim is "difficult" is not specific to CW, yet many other classes need more to be effective, I want to see you deal the same damage on Arbiter as on CW. I want you to deal the same on TR with the bleed time counting. CW doesn't require any of that.
You can try and shift to history and DoTs and gods know what you invent now, the simple fact is that anyone who argues that CW is not easy to play nor top ST dps now, is either delusional or dishonest. Or both.
- I also disagree that there have been other classes, except Warlock, who had such drastic changes. Nerfing wizards became a thing that goes forever on and doesn't change. From Control to close range DPS to Buff to long range DPS. That's four different playstyles! Not even going to go into campfire switching. One of the main reasons why there is such a thing is because separate loadouts were needed between AoE/Single target. Changing entire playstyle just for the sake of having one spell that deals more damage/easier to maintain.
Yes, Wizards were the only class that had to swap AoE/ST or loose significantly... Yup.. Indeed... I'm totally not sarcastic right now, not at all, nope.
2
micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
- "Wizard was never useless" - Let's not forget here a quintessential - "DPS" at the end of that sentence. If you say that Wizard was never useless as a DPS, I wholeheartedly disagree as I've several mods of proof that Wizard could never reach the amount of damage other classes had at the time. A quick question - how many times was Storm Spell nerfed?
If you want to quote, quote me, this quasi misquotes are interesting, but you argue with yourself.
1. Lets not confuse your personal capability on Wizard with the general player base. 2. Not reaching the Top while we can argue if did or did not, doesn't mean useless. Currently GF dps is useless, and not reaching the top, currently TR DPS is not reaching the top (CW is there) but not useless, see the difference?
- "Wizard was a monster 5 years ago due to a bug, so it's k" - Yeah, this logic is amazing.
1. Looks like you have quoting issue. Try to work on that. Like actually quoting me and not your self arguments. 2. Bug? Remind me why there was 5 CW meta for CN, SP, and almost every dungeon with adds. Unless you start calling CW class misbalance a bug, then I guess everyone who ever played CW is an exploiter, especially you.
Point stands that the Arcanist path was a good and viable option, not the best option for me as it doesn't really require much tinkering, but still a good option for many people. Nerfing Arcanist path is exactly the same like nerfing wizards in previous years, nerfing on a whim, rather than a careful analysis.
My another point is that any nerf on a whim, without careful analysis of the power combinations and the way they work, will effectively reduce entire class combat effectiveness.
Better yet, if Nerfs came just because of TOMM makes it so much more worse as there are a lot of people who never even got a chance to beat phase 1, let alone complete tomm to begin with.
ToMM is an indicator, simple indicator of single target, do the same on a dummy, you get the same result. What is your DPS on a dummy MR. Tinkering?
Most of the DPS checks in the game, aka bosses are single target, which makes single target the main criteria for any group content. If you refuse to play the most efficient build for your class, this is not an indicator for the global game trend which is the strongest ST class combined with ST dps checks.
And, lastly, switching to a class like a Wizard and thinking that you can just spam buttons and win in damage, is one of the stupidest things I've read on the forum. MANY have tried to play a Wizard when it did a lot of damage, and they were soon discouraged because of the amount of work the class needed.
Really? Lets put it to the test, I"m mediocre at best, and spam buttons, lets run ToMM and see how it goes, Iv'e started playing Wizard, what, a month ago?
We will also bring a player who started a bit longer, from mod 16 I think, he was playing SW before, but that ended well...
If either outdps you, what do we get?
Tinkering? Wizard is all about mashing buttons. Try other classes for a change.
Among first things that a player who mains a tankier class fails at is - forgetting to dodge. I've seen this in the past years quite a lot. Not knowing to jump around. Not knowing when to strike. Asking for advice 5x times and then getting discouraged when they realize that although their build is flawless, although their damage is high, they just don't have enough experience nor feel comfortable enough playing a Wizard class as it takes a lot of micromanagement to really stand out on top. As I've said, a lot of smaller, easily overlooked tricks.
You tell a person who played Melee class for 18 mods about dodges playing a ranged class? What next lesson will be, getting CA?
But what from all this nonsense apply to CW and doesn't apply to any other dps class?
So they play a few rounds, they feel good about themselves, but soon after when they meet with an experienced wizard, who does at least 50% more Paingiver than them, they switch back to a class they are more comfortable playing with. The end.
No problem, lets do ToMM, I'm a new inexperienced wizard, and I'll show you how to daily as a chicken.
I've yet to find a person, let alone lots of them, who main a different class and then go like "Yeah, Wizard all the way". If you play a Wizard, you commit to that playstyle, because it takes so much time and effort to really make it shine DPS-wise and content-wise. In the best case scenario, such people are just exploiting an easy way to win based on what they've heard or seen.
LOL, I can introduce you to an army. Time and effort? I believe you confuse your personal experience with a class balance aspect. Took you X time, as long as it may be, is not an indicator of anything, swap to another class, reach the same and then you can say, took me X/Y time.
I did it, In a week I did more on CW than on TR, so what nonsense you talk about? And no matter how bad of a TR player I was/am, I'm the same level of skill on CW.
Like I've said, anyone who actually plays the game at end-game, will never say that CW is harder to play than other DPS classes. Doing so is either dishonesty or delusion.
"Tinkering? Wizard is all about mashing buttons." "An army of people changed to a Wizard" "Fighting a Dummy is same as fighting Halaster" - Micky One Poo, 2020.
Eh. Disappointing. Oh, well. I wish you had something useful to say. Perhaps to spark an intelligent discussion, even. One can only hope, no? The thing is, I don't really want to talk to you because you really fail to properly rationalize as you tend to jump from a topic to a topic, and self-validate what you preach to be the sole truth. I mean, thank you for writing that much! Although it's completely wasted from my perspective as it still has no relevance to anything realistic game-wise. I'm sure you had some pent-up anger or even an immense case of boredom in the process of writing it all. If you feel the need to release your pent-up anger because you had to switch to a Wizard in order to complete a dungeon faster, that's ok. Learning a new class can be bothersome, especially if you borderline dislike it.
I thank you for sparking interest in me and my gaming habits. As such I will share a few sentences for you, so you better pay attention. I'm not a "let's see who's better" type of a person, and I find that to be tremendously boring. Challenging me to "a DPS battle", in a game where there are many factors at hand, is a rather poor way to invite me to play with you. I can see that your lack of knowledge of a Wizard class is spot on, as you say you've been playing it for a month or so only. That explains a lot. And can also explain your pent-up anger, too. Now, more than ever. I wish I could help you by personally being in a more argumentative mood, just so that you can keep spawning more nonsence and feel better about yourself, but frankly you're just obnoxiously rude without any reason, whatsoever. What caused this? It can't be me, as you've gone to great effort of typing just to try some way to prove to be correct based on nothing more than your hunches. As such I'm not obligated to listen to your childish banter and I urge you to find another person for doing such things. Go to your Alliance chat and write with CapsLock "Wizard takes no skill to play, you can just press buttons and be top dps".
Now, as before, your lack of cognition and concentration to the topic at hand, or the arguments from the opposing side, escalate for the worse the longer the discussion goes.
I suggest finding a bit more tact, and maturity for that matter, next time when your try to discuss a few points you disagree on. You will find that it can help you to send the point across with far more ease, rather than appearing as a bantering child that states disinformation and tries to project self-centered view of the game as a gaming rule/standard of sorts.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited January 2020
Maturity like yours? Thanks but no.
Tact like yours? Aren't you ashamed of yourself? Grown up person behaves like a petulant child, you can't argue a point, so your only recourse is personal attack.
What you need to learn is to quote, your misquotes are a great insight into your lack of reading comprehension. Second you need to learn how to form an argument, but that is beyond hope.
A failure to prove a single point wrong. We should all bow before your great wisdom, intelligence, and expertise.
PS: I'm never angry on the forums, every time I read your posts, I actually laugh. And smile all the way through the response.
PS #2: Hate the class? I love playing CW. My favorite thing is that I can just mash buttons. Cost me tens of millions to gear my CW now, and I'm mashing buttons with great success.
[Edited it all] wrote a damn essay then i actually read this thread from the beginning and deleted the essay. Anyone can gear up a cw and do amazing on it, its dumb easy but satisfying as heck.
From end game wizards, wizard dps is pretty brain dead =P. Nothing is particularly hard. Combat warden pre mod 16 was hard. Arcanist mod 17 is a joke compared to that.
From end game wizards, wizard dps is pretty brain dead =P. Nothing is particularly hard. Combat warden pre mod 16 was hard. Arcanist mod 17 is a joke compared to that.
I'll raise you a Trapper compared to your "pre buff with Throw Caution and using At-wills for Battle Crazed, then when buffs go up, press Longstrider's, press Encounter, press Split Strike Twice, repeat from 'press Encounter', yell at buffers if enemy isn't dead in one rotation".
(Yeah, I get Trapper rotations could be actually memorized to the point where you were playing a piano, but even when you got the sequence, there was still pressure to rotate fast enough due to the 4 second Longstrider buff.
Either way, both of the old Ranger specs had much more depth than "press Not Haste, apply face to keyboard until Not Haste ends, fire off any remaining encounter powers and hold down At-will until you get encounters back/Not Haste back again").
I am certain that the constant and repeated messing with classes is a cheap way to attempt to keep the game fresh. Although many players have bought into the idea that mmos with multiple classes require frequent balancing when new items are introduced, but this is just a clever lie that the developers put out and players buy it.
No, developers use class balancing as a way to prevent players from getting "set" in a build. When they mess with the class powers it forces the player to do some testing to figure out what is now the better build arrangement. Its a cheap way to keep the game from becoming stale without needing to add in a bunch of work.
Although some players will say the mod 16 changes were necessary for the games future, but really it was cryptic's desperation and way to roll back the power. The combat was better pre mod 16 and now many of the classes are either not as fun to play or they struggle to perform like they did previously.
Feats that are paper or plastic choices and some choices you make you never even use. On some classes if you attempt to try to utilize all the feat choices it actually makes the class perform worse.
Its two mods later and we are still getting class balancing and I put money down that mod 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, ect will all have class balancing.
From end game wizards, wizard dps is pretty brain dead =P. Nothing is particularly hard. Combat warden pre mod 16 was hard. Arcanist mod 17 is a joke compared to that.
I'll raise you a Trapper compared to your "pre buff with Throw Caution and using At-wills for Battle Crazed, then when buffs go up, press Longstrider's, press Encounter, press Split Strike Twice, repeat from 'press Encounter', yell at buffers if enemy isn't dead in one rotation".
(Yeah, I get Trapper rotations could be actually memorized to the point where you were playing a piano, but even when you got the sequence, there was still pressure to rotate fast enough due to the 4 second Longstrider buff.
Either way, both of the old Ranger specs had much more depth than "press Not Haste, apply face to keyboard until Not Haste ends, fire off any remaining encounter powers and hold down At-will until you get encounters back/Not Haste back again").
;P
the trapper rotations also stuck on keys. they would lag. you'd hit the button and nothing would happen so you would have to mash like 4 or 5 times to get it to go. it was a pia.
that said, I do think there is a divide between really good cws and poor cws. (I count myself in the poorer side) when on my basically bis cw i am not usually first in the damage charts. ofc, some of that is just knowing the content. I've noticed when I go into new content I underperform no matter hwat toon I'm on compared to others. I just bumble I think. but I've also seen other cws who do worse than me even who are also similarly geared. and I've seen others yet who just blow me away no matter what i do. Ofc, this is all based on paingiver and sharp did do a good write up in another thread of why it's meaningless and I can't disagree with any of that. so.. ymmv. I feel like there must be something obvs I'm missing. Even though I did enough reading to feel like I came away with a good feeling for the way the powers interacted. I'm guessing it's all just content, familiarity and a tendancy to just be try hard now and again but not all the time for me. try hard makes me tired. lol
0
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
that said, I do think there is a divide between really good cws and poor cws. (I count myself in the poorer side) when on my basically bis cw i am not usually first in the damage charts. ofc, some of that is just knowing the content. I've noticed when I go into new content I underperform no matter hwat toon I'm on compared to others. I just bumble I think. but I've also seen other cws who do worse than me even who are also similarly geared. and I've seen others yet who just blow me away no matter what i do. Ofc, this is all based on paingiver and sharp did do a good write up in another thread of why it's meaningless and I can't disagree with any of that. so.. ymmv. I feel like there must be something obvs I'm missing. Even though I did enough reading to feel like I came away with a good feeling for the way the powers interacted. I'm guessing it's all just content, familiarity and a tendancy to just be try hard now and again but not all the time for me. try hard makes me tired. lol
Even if playing wizards is as easy as smashing buttons, there is definitely a difference between an expert wizard and a simple button smasher. Here are some examples:
- Flanking: This is obvious one but lots of wizards dont pay enough attention because they have ranged skills and is easier to lose CA in range - Animation cancelling: Cancel some animations give you more time for attacks. You should know what animations can be cancelled and how. - Less dodging: Each dodge is DPS lost. If you can take a hit, take it, if you can move instead of dodge, do it. More if you have lionheart weapons, you maximize your dps with max stamina. - Wait for buffs: Use your daily when all the buffs are up, this is so obvious... but some button smashers keep using daily as soon as it comes up that I had to comment this one. - Re-apply ray of frost: When ray of frost does all of his ticks you have to pull the button and push it again, you can lose some seconds until you notice you are not attacking.
There are other things, and all are minor things, but when you put all together into a wizard there is a lot of difference in the end.
that said, I do think there is a divide between really good cws and poor cws. (I count myself in the poorer side) when on my basically bis cw i am not usually first in the damage charts. ofc, some of that is just knowing the content. I've noticed when I go into new content I underperform no matter hwat toon I'm on compared to others. I just bumble I think. but I've also seen other cws who do worse than me even who are also similarly geared. and I've seen others yet who just blow me away no matter what i do. Ofc, this is all based on paingiver and sharp did do a good write up in another thread of why it's meaningless and I can't disagree with any of that. so.. ymmv. I feel like there must be something obvs I'm missing. Even though I did enough reading to feel like I came away with a good feeling for the way the powers interacted. I'm guessing it's all just content, familiarity and a tendancy to just be try hard now and again but not all the time for me. try hard makes me tired. lol
Even if playing wizards is as easy as smashing buttons, there is definitely a difference between an expert wizard and a simple button smasher. Here are some examples:
- Flanking: This is obvious one but lots of wizards dont pay enough attention because they have ranged skills and is easier to lose CA in range - Animation cancelling: Cancel some animations give you more time for attacks. You should know what animations can be cancelled and how. - Less dodging: Each dodge is DPS lost. If you can take a hit, take it, if you can move instead of dodge, do it. More if you have lionheart weapons, you maximize your dps with max stamina. - Wait for buffs: Use your daily when all the buffs are up, this is so obvious... but some button smashers keep using daily as soon as it comes up that I had to comment this one. - Re-apply ray of frost: When ray of frost does all of his ticks you have to pull the button and push it again, you can lose some seconds until you notice you are not attacking.
There are other things, and all are minor things, but when you put all together into a wizard there is a lot of difference in the end.
The main thing is that most apply to all DPS classes. CA, Animation, Dodging / Immunity Frames (Or in general time on target), buff/debuff window, etc.. All valid to all dps, but if we look at class specific, Arbiter, I don't want even talk about that one to match CW, much more work. TR you need to constantly count the bleed time, reapplying with 2 at-wills + stealth timing for the out of stealth bonus, and the disadvantage of Melee. And so on..
The main thing CW specific is using repeal last to use up the arcane stacks (in ST on Bosses) and the AP gain block on Arcane Empowerment, but with the class mechanic being another encounter, it is just easier than other classes where there are more things to keep up and time.
This is not in demerit of people who find the class fun, or good at it, I find it fun, and not bad (there are better players ofc), but to call it hard to play? Nope. Or takes years to master? Really... People need to play other classes before such statement. Or try non bad pug groups, where people do know the basics of DPS, like positional CA, and I-Frame damage / Or face tank when can, etc..
Good points in both. cw and he being able to get behind the baddie can be diff kiting tanks and tanks who can't hold aggro fy da. Animation cancel is difficult for me too. I always look for the combat advantage and at times I feel like I'm loosing DPS chasing position. I didn't know that about repel last
> @darthpotater said: > (Quote) > Even if playing wizards is as easy as smashing buttons, there is definitely a difference between an expert wizard and a simple button smasher. Here are some examples: > > - Flanking: This is obvious one but lots of wizards dont pay enough attention because they have ranged skills and is easier to lose CA in range > - Animation cancelling: Cancel some animations give you more time for attacks. You should know what animations can be cancelled and how. > - Less dodging: Each dodge is DPS lost. If you can take a hit, take it, if you can move instead of dodge, do it. More if you have lionheart weapons, you maximize your dps with max stamina. > - Wait for buffs: Use your daily when all the buffs are up, this is so obvious... but some button smashers keep using daily as soon as it comes up that I had to comment this one. > - Re-apply ray of frost: When ray of frost does all of his ticks you have to pull the button and push it again, you can lose some seconds until you notice you are not attacking. > > There are other things, and all are minor things, but when you put all together into a wizard there is a lot of difference in the end.
What experience wizard you mean mod 16 all are in same boat. Wizard just need the gear and just ask a question what rotation to use. Did it myself on tomm was doing more damage then my main barb that tested hundred of hour. I didn't see anyone that changed to cw to play did worse . And yes is use one daily and smash buttons on artifact calls if you can you can squeeze 2 dailys in between.
The main thing is that most apply to all DPS classes. CA, Animation, Dodging / Immunity Frames (Or in general time on target), buff/debuff window, etc..
The moment you started laughing at my posts and admitting to come here just to laugh is the time where you lost all credibility as a person who deserves mature talk. You become a toy, nothing more. What do you expect? : }
Yes, GWF's with Prominence enchantment PRE MOD16 really needed all of that caring, lol. Holding left click was really hard, lol. What you fail to understand is the point depicting Wizards who needed to take great care of such things far more than all other classes throughout the years of Wizard history as it was the only way to actually play a good Wizard and remain somewhat relevant. Meaning that it was far more penalizing not to take into count all of (de)buffs, as you were sure to fall behind and rarely ever called into a group. This was especially prominent during the 4Support1DPS meta. Unless a Wizard was extremely good or was playing with friends, not a single person wanted them in groups as they couldn't outdish enough damage. Failing to understand this simple concept is your own fault, but you are not obliged to understand it, however at that point you are also wrong to assume that it didn't take any effort throughout the years to manage a DoT-heavy, timing oriented, tinkering machine that is Wizard. A class that kept getting nerfs through all the years and the one class people continued to play out of pure spite, finding a way to become relevant, only to have that way nerfed again. And again. And again. I'm not talking about powers that would work better or outperform, I'm talking about powers that make a Wizard relevant. Here I will repeat the question to which you didn't even answer - how many times did Storm Spell get nerfed? Let us see how familiar you actually are with the class that you started playing, what, a month ago?
All valid to all dps, but if we look at class specific, Arbiter, I don't want even talk about that one to match CW, much more work. TR you need to constantly count the bleed time, reapplying with 2 at-wills + stealth timing for the out of stealth bonus, and the disadvantage of Melee. And so on..
Yes, as a Wizard you never have to pay attention to any ticks nor (de)buffs. All you have to do is mash buttons, like some crazed GWF, lol. It's not like that was the case throughout the years where you needed enemies to remain on 15ft radius Icy Terrain (that virtually no other class respected other than SW and kept pulling/pushing enemies away), whilst applying Conduit of Ice, waiting for enemies to freeze for exactly 1.2 sec on DMG builds, which was the only time window where maximizing damage by 34% was possible, followed by builds where having the actual Eye of the Storm that lasts for no more than 4-6 sec, whilst also knowing where exactly to hit so that you not only don't spread enemies too much, but also to keep momentum for the next group of enemies since Thaumaturge feats are time-based and if you lose dmg buffs, you will underperform, making you to RUSH forward (whilst pt members hate you), whilst getting a random buff through Renegade tree via Chaos Magic, whilst using gear that gives bonuses you don't ever need (neck/belt) but are more useful to you stat-wise since your wizard oriented gear was giving you Control Bonus (with a major lol wtf element of surprise), that no sane wizard used at the time nor ever will again. And all of that whilst others are also hitting hard like a truck, spreading enemies as they see fit, and also running far ahead of you. Mashing buttons. Yes, counting BLEED time must be really hard and intensive compared to a Wizard, pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff. : }
The main thing CW specific is using repeal last to use up the arcane stacks (in ST on Bosses) and the AP gain block on Arcane Empowerment, but with the class mechanic being another encounter, it is just easier than other classes where there are more things to keep up and time.
Unlike Wizards throughout the years, who never needed to count any tick, whatsoever, nor had to rely on other people's powers to maximize their own damage by some 30% or more. Of course, playing a Wizard throughout the years, in spite of you not having any experience whatsoever but felt compelled to talk nonsense, must be really hard. You playing a Wizard for a month after MOD16 changed mechanics and tell me, based on that only, how the entirety of Wizard history was an easy one and how easy it is to master a Wizard. No, it's not. You don't know anything, and you can't master a class in a month, even if it's just for a single dungeon. If you don't want to be slandered or personally attacked, then why do you bring that into discussion in the first place? And if you want to express how someone doesn't read, perhaps you should start from yourself given you fail to understand that this is not a MOD16-17 exclusive tread and we talk about Wizard history, which I'm sure was mentioned before in first or 2nd post. Not that it's of importance to you as your cognitive skills are rather meek which everyone reading this can attest.
This is not in demerit of people who find the class fun, or good at it, I find it fun, and not bad (there are better players ofc), but to call it hard to play? Nope. Or takes years to master? Really... People need to play other classes before such statement. Or try non bad pug groups, where people do know the basics of DPS, like positional CA, and I-Frame damage / Or face tank when can, etc..
Says a guy who just started playing a Wizard for a MONTH solely for the purpose of ONE SINGLE DUNGEON and already believes to be a master at it now when most skills got split in half and when there's literally just one single target. Ha! Gold.
I can't wait to see your own build, without any help of any other Wizard. You have no idea just how stupid it is to believe such nonsense as that playing a Wizard takes no skill. It's borderline offensive to anyone playing a Wizard throughout the years. Also, I do not see you playing a Wizard throughout the years, nor you understand what "playing a Wizard" means where the slightest of changes or missed opportunities to hit meant a huge difference. As such I don't know what constructive criticism you even bring to the topic. You could've written something in the line of
"Playing a Wizard nowadays isn't a big effort as the Arcanist path seems to perform rather well on a single target build. I haven't really taken time and effort to test it in other content and playing with other classes where there are groups of enemies. It seems that a Wizard has no real viable AoE path that can play properly without utilizing tricks yet again just to remain viable."
If you've written a sentence like that, you'd be golden rn. But no, you had to go full conflict zone and then get offended after your trash talk.
Enjoy playing as a Wizard, it's the best class IMO. : } Not for everyone. Once you learn to play it properly, rather than messing around for a month whilst using recommended builds by your friends, I will come back to play this game and see how much you improved. lol
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited January 2020
The only one who trash talks is you.
I've done every group content in the game on a wizard, including content no longer in the game, originally, and now from tales of old, everything queue-able, ToMM, and M18 dungeon from start to finish.
Only you have difficulty to comprehend that I already play it better than you. Significantly better than whatever "tinkering" you did. If it took you 6 years to waddle with it, doesn't mean that others can't play it effectively. The whole point is that I don't need to know how to make a build, all I need is to mash buttons, and still be better than you.
A player named "elvis", in a week, played TR better than me while I was playing it for years. Me knowing the class doesn't make it hard for him. The execution on CW is easier than other class, and nothing you say refutes it.
You saying I don't know how to play Wizard doesn't actually make it so, me completing every meaningful content refutes that.
What other classes you played in any serious manner and end-game that someone should consider your comparison beyond absurd and laughable.
Look at your posts, you can't write anything to the point, all you can is attack me, you can do it as much as you want, I will not froth and rage or stop, or any outcome you hope, you just make a fool of yourself. Try proving my points wrong, though.. yeah... good luck with that... Try playing end-game, and on multiple classes.
cognitive skills are rather meek
Yup, I wonder why everyone who reads what you spew rolls over with laughter. Keep with the insults, you look better and better post after post.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited January 2020
Still I'm yet to hear what currently wizards need to keep track of that other DPS classes do not need. And makes it significantly harder.
All classes watch debuff/buff, I wrote the book on that pre m 16. All do CA, all do time on target, all do facetanking when can, all time dailies. What class mechanics CW need to track of now? TR has bleed + Duelists Expertise, in stealth modifier, out of stealth bonus, animation canceling gloaming with jump. What CW has? Click one encounter after the other two, and animation cancel your tab? WOW!!!
Even OP has more animation canceling work with jump + cure wound + tab/shift than CW. And more things to pay attention to.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
What experience wizard you mean mod 16 all are in same boat. Wizard just need the gear and just ask a question what rotation to use. Did it myself on tomm was doing more damage then my main barb that tested hundred of hour. I didn't see anyone that changed to cw to play did worse . And yes is use one daily and smash buttons on artifact calls if you can you can squeeze 2 dailys in between.
But we are not discussing here the difference between wizards and other classes, if you read, we are discussing the difference between a good wizard and a bad one so your post has no sense in this discussion.
> @darthpotater said: > (Quote) > But we are not discussing here the difference between wizards and other classes, if you read, we are discussing the difference between a good wizard and a bad one so your post has no sense in this discussion.
That's why I'm telling you what expert wizard . You need to be expert to play a wizard ? All have same build same rotation where is the degree of cw school that you need .sure will be one or 2 cw tha can be better then others but doesn't mean they are expert on cw they can be day one cw from some other class and can be better then all of cw that play like 6 years, happens in all classes. There is nothing in this game to be expert everyone can come and be better than you doesn't matter how many years you play. Bad player is bad player whatever class is playing and as op saying cw is not good and is hard to play.
Guild
The imaginary Friends
Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
What experience wizard you mean mod 16 all are in same boat. Wizard just need the gear and just ask a question what rotation to use. Did it myself on tomm was doing more damage then my main barb that tested hundred of hour. I didn't see anyone that changed to cw to play did worse . And yes is use one daily and smash buttons on artifact calls if you can you can squeeze 2 dailys in between.
But we are not discussing here the difference between wizards and other classes, if you read, we are discussing the difference between a good wizard and a bad one so your post has no sense in this discussion.
Hmm actually we kinda do, there is underlying premise by the OP that CW is soooo hard to play. Which any sane person will contest, because CW is not hard to play at all. (And this comes ofc both in general and relative to other classes).
What differentiate a good CW from a bad one, is mostly the same things that will do so for any other dps, like was mentioned CA, Time on target, buff/debuff timings, daily timing, and so on.. It just that other classes have more.
Note that I'm not saying that a CW player will not be good on other classes, or something, I'm sure that there are many who can easily master anything that thrown at them. If a player understands well the general concepts of DPS, like you outlined previously, then they have a good start with any class. But the fact remains, that now, CW have much less moving parts to track to get a lot out of it, both in general and specifically compared to other classes.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
> But we are not discussing here the difference between wizards and other classes, if you read, we are discussing the difference between a good wizard and a bad one so your post has no sense in this discussion.
That's why I'm telling you what expert wizard . You need to be expert to play a wizard ? All have same build same rotation where is the degree of cw school that you need .sure will be one or 2 cw tha can be better then others but doesn't mean they are expert on cw they can be day one cw from some other class and can be better then all of cw that play like 6 years, happens in all classes. There is nothing in this game to be expert everyone can come and be better than you doesn't matter how many years you play. Bad player is bad player whatever class is playing and as op saying cw is not good and is hard to play.
You dont need to be an expert to play anything but the fact that there is a big differnce between good players and bad players, playing wizards or playing any class. I dont enter if playing wizard is easy or hard, that is very subjetive.
With he up coming nerfs it's all moot tho. We are gonna look more like warlocks yeah
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited January 2020
*grabs popcorn* Thread will likely get shutdown for "bickering" lol
my 2 cents there is a big difference between cws that position / dodge and jump well / stamina management and dont regardless of gear or dps or single / vs aoe boss or not end game or mid game/ flavor of the month blah blah whether they are perceived as button mashers or not ( you cant stand still and mash in all areas most encounters have long cools downs and there is no mashing unless your arcane empowerment daily is up and that is only on 1/2 Cw paragon ..there is no mashing on cw aoe thum ) that summarizes all basically ..
its not all about Cw dps either it is also about not causing a drain on your healers resources from constantly being hit or being in incapacitated dazed.. out of range etc and unable to deliver damage
Are you suggesting that 130k crit strike is too low?
It's a straightforward ratio, nothing that requires any degree: to have the maximum crit chance of 50%, you need to have 1.25x your power in crit (or to express it another way, have critical strike be 125% of your power.)
For example, my own ToMM loadout (soulweaver) runs 190k crit as to help support her power of 140k (after stacks.) And in terms of enchantments I am quite short of BiS. For content like ToMM, 130k crit strike is indeed far too low.
edit: started reading on the first page and didn't notice this was already answered... but I'll leave it up as affirmation, lol.
What experience wizard you mean mod 16 all are in same boat. Wizard just need the gear and just ask a question what rotation to use. Did it myself on tomm was doing more damage then my main barb that tested hundred of hour. I didn't see anyone that changed to cw to play did worse . And yes is use one daily and smash buttons on artifact calls if you can you can squeeze 2 dailys in between.
But we are not discussing here the difference between wizards and other classes, if you read, we are discussing the difference between a good wizard and a bad one so your post has no sense in this discussion.
Took respectfully disagrees. Title is "Nerfing wizard is always a bad idea". Cannot discuss the merits, fairness and balance significance of a "nerf" without comparing it to other classes, ITHO.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Comments
With all the huge mess going around in ToMM for example, on PC you either set up ACT timers, or you can naturally keep track of this, or you switch to CW. At to this Wicked reminder timer, and if you are feeling extremely adventurous you can try to time the Dualesits Expertise feat proc (there is a floater that pops - though IMO it's impossible to time correctly into the debuff window in ToMM unless you are the one calling the artifact, so I used skull cracker there)
If you ask me personally, then my answer is that after 17 mods of playing TR, since few weeks ago my CW moved 0 to hero, now more geared than the Thread Opener. That would be the second time I actually do this, the first was to do the orignal CN in around mod 3. Yes. Slap crit gear on the companion and everywhere where it's not a replacement for power (assuming ofc you cap critical avoidance and defense for tomm)
But in general you want you critical strike high, as long as you don't hurt your power.
https://jannenw.info/pages/mechanics16/heals
You can skip the math and focus on the bottom lines.
For example my Paladin is not top geared, and I'm sitting at about 150k power and 180k crit (pre buffs, pots and stuff).
There is a huge difference between the two, in LoMM you can just carry, take the time explain on the go, redo if needed some boss, and let a new person learn on the way, in ToMM that is not practical, one collision on the magnets and the run fails.
I have 0 clue about consoles, but on PC there are training runs organized specifically so new people can learn, and then join in live runs.
Still people asked to go over a guide and or videos to at least be familiar with the mechanics, failing early is 10 people time wasted and the further a training run can go the better it is for everyone.
You can find a guide here and videos at the bottom:
https://guides.jannenw.info/2019/08/03/tower-of-the-mad-mage-guide/
Much laughter and head ache inducing confusion to be had, as per usual.
I better get his bags empty, and start from scratch LOL
As far as training runs on xbox, I had on or 2 guilds in an aliance doing them, then interest in them fell or something, as now they don't happen. I know my pallys guild suffered some serious poaching, and was without an alliance for 2 weeks(it was against alliance rules to poach, yet it still happened...). I haven't seen anything since we got new ally, and even when we did have them I wasn't on when they were going on.
I will answer, however, since what you preach hold no relevance to the state of the game.
- More ppl started playing Wizards (*That's a fact*) - Phah. No, it isn't. How can you even make that conclusion? Based on your friend list? Do you have knowledge of the server's database, perchance? It amazes me that you can start a reply by laughing at what I've written, and come up with "More people playing wizards, ugh, m8 it's a fact". And then you expect to be taken seriously, perchance? Phah!
- If you know a few people who switched to a Wizard class solely for the purpose of TOMM, that's their convenience and ease of access rather than the state of the game. Finding the most profitable path in less time spent on making a good build with other classes who, let's be honest, have far fewer people tinkering about.
- I see same people playing Wizards as they did before. And, in fact, I see more people playing Rogues than before. I see less people playing Clerics. More people playing Healadins. But this hardly says anything about the state of the game. If you're good with one class, you play it and main it. People that switch classes will continue to switch classes regardless of what's current meta.
- I do notice only one side stating how it's easy to play a Wizard as it's a "spam" thing, to which I disagree. More specifically since I'm not talking about Disintegrate meta, but about the entire history of Wizard class, to which I'm unsure how familiar you are. Given the responses, I'd say not really. If anything, real Wizard meta was always DoT damage. Icy Terrain, Conduit of Ice etc. Especially when Wizard was in the weakest state, tinkerers found a way to make it viable until devs said "hey guys, no more dots, k, ty". And each time Wizard lost anything between 10%-30% of total damage.
- I also disagree that there have been other classes, except Warlock, who had such drastic changes. Nerfing wizards became a thing that goes forever on and doesn't change. From Control to close range DPS to Buff to long range DPS. That's four different playstyles! Not even going to go into campfire switching. One of the main reasons why there is such a thing is because separate loadouts were needed between AoE/Single target. Changing entire playstyle just for the sake of having one spell that deals more damage/easier to maintain.
- "Wizard was never useless" - Let's not forget here a quintessential - "DPS" at the end of that sentence. If you say that Wizard was never useless as a DPS, I wholeheartedly disagree as I've several mods of proof that Wizard could never reach the amount of damage other classes had at the time. A quick question - how many times was Storm Spell nerfed?
- "Wizard was a monster 5 years ago due to a bug, so it's k" - Yeah, this logic is amazing.
Point stands that the Arcanist path was a good and viable option, not the best option for me as it doesn't really require much tinkering, but still a good option for many people. Nerfing Arcanist path is exactly the same like nerfing wizards in previous years, nerfing on a whim, rather than a careful analysis.
My another point is that any nerf on a whim, without careful analysis of the power combinations and the way they work, will effectively reduce entire class combat effectiveness.
Better yet, if Nerfs came just because of TOMM makes it so much more worse as there are a lot of people who never even got a chance to beat phase 1, let alone complete tomm to begin with.
And, lastly, switching to a class like a Wizard and thinking that you can just spam buttons and win in damage, is one of the stupidest things I've read on the forum. MANY have tried to play a Wizard when it did a lot of damage, and they were soon discouraged because of the amount of work the class needed. Among first things that a player who mains a tankier class fails at is - forgetting to dodge. I've seen this in the past years quite a lot. Not knowing to jump around. Not knowing when to strike. Asking for advice 5x times and then getting discouraged when they realize that although their build is flawless, although their damage is high, they just don't have enough experience nor feel comfortable enough playing a Wizard class as it takes a lot of micromanagement to really stand out on top. As I've said, a lot of smaller, easily overlooked tricks.
So they play a few rounds, they feel good about themselves, but soon after when they meet with an experienced wizard, who does at least 50% more Paingiver than them, they switch back to a class they are more comfortable playing with. The end.
I've yet to find a person, let alone lots of them, who main a different class and then go like "Yeah, Wizard all the way". If you play a Wizard, you commit to that playstyle, because it takes so much time and effort to really make it shine DPS-wise and content-wise. In the best case scenario, such people are just exploiting an easy way to win based on what they've heard or seen.
2. If you want senseless ramble, you should take a look at your posts, at least I reply point by point.
3. If you can't understand, yet so many other can, what does it imply? Perhaps the fault is not in my posts, but in your comprehension?
Oh goody, what I have done without your response. I'm truly in your debt.
You misquote, like you usually do and try to argue god know what. Sobi's statment was simple, People swapped to wizards. Not more not less, a simple fact.
Which is indeed a fact, I know many who swapped to wizard due to the advantages of higher single target dps and ranged class, I did so myself. And certain game play aspects. And on what is this based on? Ease of access? Profitable? Gearing a dps class from 0 to a top level costs millions upon millions.
Less time than making a good build for another class? You will teach me about builds...
I'm all ears for a comprehensive rogue build I didn't know before, one that will have the same target uptime as ranged CW, and without counting bleed timers or the need to have ACT trigger to do so. Because well, on CW, I don't have this complication.
What exactly you argue here? If you see some people X or Y, what exactly you argue here? Do you make ToMM groups? I swapped my main game play time on a class only twice now during the entire game life, 18 mods, the previous was for the old CN, and it was to CW. Not familiar, yeah...
I will say that you are the not familiar with any other class. I will more so say that you are not really familiar with CW either. I have a good feeling that I will outdps you, with my only not above average skill on CW.
Anything you claim is "difficult" is not specific to CW, yet many other classes need more to be effective, I want to see you deal the same damage on Arbiter as on CW. I want you to deal the same on TR with the bleed time counting. CW doesn't require any of that.
You can try and shift to history and DoTs and gods know what you invent now, the simple fact is that anyone who argues that CW is not easy to play nor top ST dps now, is either delusional or dishonest. Or both.
Yes, Wizards were the only class that had to swap AoE/ST or loose significantly... Yup.. Indeed... I'm totally not sarcastic right now, not at all, nope.
If you want to quote, quote me, this quasi misquotes are interesting, but you argue with yourself.
1. Lets not confuse your personal capability on Wizard with the general player base.
2. Not reaching the Top while we can argue if did or did not, doesn't mean useless. Currently GF dps is useless, and not reaching the top, currently TR DPS is not reaching the top (CW is there) but not useless, see the difference? 1. Looks like you have quoting issue. Try to work on that. Like actually quoting me and not your self arguments.
2. Bug? Remind me why there was 5 CW meta for CN, SP, and almost every dungeon with adds. Unless you start calling CW class misbalance a bug, then I guess everyone who ever played CW is an exploiter, especially you.
ToMM is an indicator, simple indicator of single target, do the same on a dummy, you get the same result. What is your DPS on a dummy MR. Tinkering?
Most of the DPS checks in the game, aka bosses are single target, which makes single target the main criteria for any group content.
If you refuse to play the most efficient build for your class, this is not an indicator for the global game trend which is the strongest ST class combined with ST dps checks. Really? Lets put it to the test, I"m mediocre at best, and spam buttons, lets run ToMM and see how it goes, Iv'e started playing Wizard, what, a month ago?
We will also bring a player who started a bit longer, from mod 16 I think, he was playing SW before, but that ended well...
If either outdps you, what do we get?
Tinkering? Wizard is all about mashing buttons. Try other classes for a change.
You tell a person who played Melee class for 18 mods about dodges playing a ranged class? What next lesson will be, getting CA?
But what from all this nonsense apply to CW and doesn't apply to any other dps class?
No problem, lets do ToMM, I'm a new inexperienced wizard, and I'll show you how to daily as a chicken. LOL, I can introduce you to an army. Time and effort? I believe you confuse your personal experience with a class balance aspect.
Took you X time, as long as it may be, is not an indicator of anything, swap to another class, reach the same and then you can say, took me X/Y time.
I did it, In a week I did more on CW than on TR, so what nonsense you talk about? And no matter how bad of a TR player I was/am, I'm the same level of skill on CW.
Like I've said, anyone who actually plays the game at end-game, will never say that CW is harder to play than other DPS classes. Doing so is either dishonesty or delusion.
"An army of people changed to a Wizard"
"Fighting a Dummy is same as fighting Halaster"
- Micky One Poo, 2020.
Eh. Disappointing. Oh, well. I wish you had something useful to say. Perhaps to spark an intelligent discussion, even. One can only hope, no?
The thing is, I don't really want to talk to you because you really fail to properly rationalize as you tend to jump from a topic to a topic, and self-validate what you preach to be the sole truth.
I mean, thank you for writing that much! Although it's completely wasted from my perspective as it still has no relevance to anything realistic game-wise. I'm sure you had some pent-up anger or even an immense case of boredom in the process of writing it all. If you feel the need to release your pent-up anger because you had to switch to a Wizard in order to complete a dungeon faster, that's ok. Learning a new class can be bothersome, especially if you borderline dislike it.
I thank you for sparking interest in me and my gaming habits. As such I will share a few sentences for you, so you better pay attention. I'm not a "let's see who's better" type of a person, and I find that to be tremendously boring. Challenging me to "a DPS battle", in a game where there are many factors at hand, is a rather poor way to invite me to play with you. I can see that your lack of knowledge of a Wizard class is spot on, as you say you've been playing it for a month or so only. That explains a lot. And can also explain your pent-up anger, too. Now, more than ever.
I wish I could help you by personally being in a more argumentative mood, just so that you can keep spawning more nonsence and feel better about yourself, but frankly you're just obnoxiously rude without any reason, whatsoever. What caused this? It can't be me, as you've gone to great effort of typing just to try some way to prove to be correct based on nothing more than your hunches.
As such I'm not obligated to listen to your childish banter and I urge you to find another person for doing such things. Go to your Alliance chat and write with CapsLock "Wizard takes no skill to play, you can just press buttons and be top dps".
Now, as before, your lack of cognition and concentration to the topic at hand, or the arguments from the opposing side, escalate for the worse the longer the discussion goes.
I suggest finding a bit more tact, and maturity for that matter, next time when your try to discuss a few points you disagree on. You will find that it can help you to send the point across with far more ease, rather than appearing as a bantering child that states disinformation and tries to project self-centered view of the game as a gaming rule/standard of sorts.
Tact like yours? Aren't you ashamed of yourself? Grown up person behaves like a petulant child, you can't argue a point, so your only recourse is personal attack.
What you need to learn is to quote, your misquotes are a great insight into your lack of reading comprehension. Second you need to learn how to form an argument, but that is beyond hope.
A failure to prove a single point wrong. We should all bow before your great wisdom, intelligence, and expertise.
PS: I'm never angry on the forums, every time I read your posts, I actually laugh. And smile all the way through the response.
PS #2: Hate the class? I love playing CW. My favorite thing is that I can just mash buttons. Cost me tens of millions to gear my CW now, and I'm mashing buttons with great success.
Anyone can gear up a cw and do amazing on it, its dumb easy but satisfying as heck.
(Yeah, I get Trapper rotations could be actually memorized to the point where you were playing a piano, but even when you got the sequence, there was still pressure to rotate fast enough due to the 4 second Longstrider buff.
Either way, both of the old Ranger specs had much more depth than "press Not Haste, apply face to keyboard until Not Haste ends, fire off any remaining encounter powers and hold down At-will until you get encounters back/Not Haste back again").
;P
No, developers use class balancing as a way to prevent players from getting "set" in a build. When they mess with the class powers it forces the player to do some testing to figure out what is now the better build arrangement. Its a cheap way to keep the game from becoming stale without needing to add in a bunch of work.
Although some players will say the mod 16 changes were necessary for the games future, but really it was cryptic's desperation and way to roll back the power. The combat was better pre mod 16 and now many of the classes are either not as fun to play or they struggle to perform like they did previously.
Feats that are paper or plastic choices and some choices you make you never even use. On some classes if you attempt to try to utilize all the feat choices it actually makes the class perform worse.
Its two mods later and we are still getting class balancing and I put money down that mod 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, ect will all have class balancing.
- Flanking: This is obvious one but lots of wizards dont pay enough attention because they have ranged skills and is easier to lose CA in range
- Animation cancelling: Cancel some animations give you more time for attacks. You should know what animations can be cancelled and how.
- Less dodging: Each dodge is DPS lost. If you can take a hit, take it, if you can move instead of dodge, do it. More if you have lionheart weapons, you maximize your dps with max stamina.
- Wait for buffs: Use your daily when all the buffs are up, this is so obvious... but some button smashers keep using daily as soon as it comes up that I had to comment this one.
- Re-apply ray of frost: When ray of frost does all of his ticks you have to pull the button and push it again, you can lose some seconds until you notice you are not attacking.
There are other things, and all are minor things, but when you put all together into a wizard there is a lot of difference in the end.
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All valid to all dps, but if we look at class specific, Arbiter, I don't want even talk about that one to match CW, much more work. TR you need to constantly count the bleed time, reapplying with 2 at-wills + stealth timing for the out of stealth bonus, and the disadvantage of Melee. And so on..
The main thing CW specific is using repeal last to use up the arcane stacks (in ST on Bosses) and the AP gain block on Arcane Empowerment, but with the class mechanic being another encounter, it is just easier than other classes where there are more things to keep up and time.
This is not in demerit of people who find the class fun, or good at it, I find it fun, and not bad (there are better players ofc), but to call it hard to play? Nope. Or takes years to master? Really... People need to play other classes before such statement. Or try non bad pug groups, where people do know the basics of DPS, like positional CA, and I-Frame damage / Or face tank when can, etc..
> (Quote)
> Even if playing wizards is as easy as smashing buttons, there is definitely a difference between an expert wizard and a simple button smasher. Here are some examples:
>
> - Flanking: This is obvious one but lots of wizards dont pay enough attention because they have ranged skills and is easier to lose CA in range
> - Animation cancelling: Cancel some animations give you more time for attacks. You should know what animations can be cancelled and how.
> - Less dodging: Each dodge is DPS lost. If you can take a hit, take it, if you can move instead of dodge, do it. More if you have lionheart weapons, you maximize your dps with max stamina.
> - Wait for buffs: Use your daily when all the buffs are up, this is so obvious... but some button smashers keep using daily as soon as it comes up that I had to comment this one.
> - Re-apply ray of frost: When ray of frost does all of his ticks you have to pull the button and push it again, you can lose some seconds until you notice you are not attacking.
>
> There are other things, and all are minor things, but when you put all together into a wizard there is a lot of difference in the end.
What experience wizard you mean mod 16 all are in same boat. Wizard just need the gear and just ask a question what rotation to use. Did it myself on tomm was doing more damage then my main barb that tested hundred of hour. I didn't see anyone that changed to cw to play did worse . And yes is use one daily and smash buttons on artifact calls if you can you can squeeze 2 dailys in between.
The imaginary Friends
Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
Yes, GWF's with Prominence enchantment PRE MOD16 really needed all of that caring, lol. Holding left click was really hard, lol. What you fail to understand is the point depicting Wizards who needed to take great care of such things far more than all other classes throughout the years of Wizard history as it was the only way to actually play a good Wizard and remain somewhat relevant. Meaning that it was far more penalizing not to take into count all of (de)buffs, as you were sure to fall behind and rarely ever called into a group. This was especially prominent during the 4Support1DPS meta. Unless a Wizard was extremely good or was playing with friends, not a single person wanted them in groups as they couldn't outdish enough damage.
Failing to understand this simple concept is your own fault, but you are not obliged to understand it, however at that point you are also wrong to assume that it didn't take any effort throughout the years to manage a DoT-heavy, timing oriented, tinkering machine that is Wizard. A class that kept getting nerfs through all the years and the one class people continued to play out of pure spite, finding a way to become relevant, only to have that way nerfed again. And again. And again. I'm not talking about powers that would work better or outperform, I'm talking about powers that make a Wizard relevant.
Here I will repeat the question to which you didn't even answer - how many times did Storm Spell get nerfed? Let us see how familiar you actually are with the class that you started playing, what, a month ago? Yes, as a Wizard you never have to pay attention to any ticks nor (de)buffs. All you have to do is mash buttons, like some crazed GWF, lol. It's not like that was the case throughout the years where you needed enemies to remain on 15ft radius Icy Terrain (that virtually no other class respected other than SW and kept pulling/pushing enemies away), whilst applying Conduit of Ice, waiting for enemies to freeze for exactly 1.2 sec on DMG builds, which was the only time window where maximizing damage by 34% was possible, followed by builds where having the actual Eye of the Storm that lasts for no more than 4-6 sec, whilst also knowing where exactly to hit so that you not only don't spread enemies too much, but also to keep momentum for the next group of enemies since Thaumaturge feats are time-based and if you lose dmg buffs, you will underperform, making you to RUSH forward (whilst pt members hate you), whilst getting a random buff through Renegade tree via Chaos Magic, whilst using gear that gives bonuses you don't ever need (neck/belt) but are more useful to you stat-wise since your wizard oriented gear was giving you Control Bonus (with a major lol wtf element of surprise), that no sane wizard used at the time nor ever will again. And all of that whilst others are also hitting hard like a truck, spreading enemies as they see fit, and also running far ahead of you. Mashing buttons.
Yes, counting BLEED time must be really hard and intensive compared to a Wizard, pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff. : } Unlike Wizards throughout the years, who never needed to count any tick, whatsoever, nor had to rely on other people's powers to maximize their own damage by some 30% or more. Of course, playing a Wizard throughout the years, in spite of you not having any experience whatsoever but felt compelled to talk nonsense, must be really hard. You playing a Wizard for a month after MOD16 changed mechanics and tell me, based on that only, how the entirety of Wizard history was an easy one and how easy it is to master a Wizard. No, it's not. You don't know anything, and you can't master a class in a month, even if it's just for a single dungeon. If you don't want to be slandered or personally attacked, then why do you bring that into discussion in the first place? And if you want to express how someone doesn't read, perhaps you should start from yourself given you fail to understand that this is not a MOD16-17 exclusive tread and we talk about Wizard history, which I'm sure was mentioned before in first or 2nd post. Not that it's of importance to you as your cognitive skills are rather meek which everyone reading this can attest. Says a guy who just started playing a Wizard for a MONTH solely for the purpose of ONE SINGLE DUNGEON and already believes to be a master at it now when most skills got split in half and when there's literally just one single target. Ha! Gold.
I can't wait to see your own build, without any help of any other Wizard. You have no idea just how stupid it is to believe such nonsense as that playing a Wizard takes no skill. It's borderline offensive to anyone playing a Wizard throughout the years.
Also, I do not see you playing a Wizard throughout the years, nor you understand what "playing a Wizard" means where the slightest of changes or missed opportunities to hit meant a huge difference. As such I don't know what constructive criticism you even bring to the topic. You could've written something in the line of
"Playing a Wizard nowadays isn't a big effort as the Arcanist path seems to perform rather well on a single target build. I haven't really taken time and effort to test it in other content and playing with other classes where there are groups of enemies. It seems that a Wizard has no real viable AoE path that can play properly without utilizing tricks yet again just to remain viable."
If you've written a sentence like that, you'd be golden rn. But no, you had to go full conflict zone and then get offended after your trash talk.
Enjoy playing as a Wizard, it's the best class IMO. : } Not for everyone. Once you learn to play it properly, rather than messing around for a month whilst using recommended builds by your friends, I will come back to play this game and see how much you improved. lol
I've done every group content in the game on a wizard, including content no longer in the game, originally, and now from tales of old, everything queue-able, ToMM, and M18 dungeon from start to finish.
Only you have difficulty to comprehend that I already play it better than you. Significantly better than whatever "tinkering" you did. If it took you 6 years to waddle with it, doesn't mean that others can't play it effectively.
The whole point is that I don't need to know how to make a build, all I need is to mash buttons, and still be better than you.
A player named "elvis", in a week, played TR better than me while I was playing it for years. Me knowing the class doesn't make it hard for him. The execution on CW is easier than other class, and nothing you say refutes it.
You saying I don't know how to play Wizard doesn't actually make it so, me completing every meaningful content refutes that.
What other classes you played in any serious manner and end-game that someone should consider your comparison beyond absurd and laughable.
Look at your posts, you can't write anything to the point, all you can is attack me, you can do it as much as you want, I will not froth and rage or stop, or any outcome you hope, you just make a fool of yourself.
Try proving my points wrong, though.. yeah... good luck with that... Try playing end-game, and on multiple classes.
Yup, I wonder why everyone who reads what you spew rolls over with laughter. Keep with the insults, you look better and better post after post.
All classes watch debuff/buff, I wrote the book on that pre m 16.
All do CA, all do time on target, all do facetanking when can, all time dailies. What class mechanics CW need to track of now?
TR has bleed + Duelists Expertise, in stealth modifier, out of stealth bonus, animation canceling gloaming with jump. What CW has? Click one encounter after the other two, and animation cancel your tab? WOW!!!
Even OP has more animation canceling work with jump + cure wound + tab/shift than CW. And more things to pay attention to.
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> (Quote)
> But we are not discussing here the difference between wizards and other classes, if you read, we are discussing the difference between a good wizard and a bad one so your post has no sense in this discussion.
That's why I'm telling you what expert wizard . You need to be expert to play a wizard ? All have same build same rotation where is the degree of cw school that you need .sure will be one or 2 cw tha can be better then others but doesn't mean they are expert on cw they can be day one cw from some other class and can be better then all of cw that play like 6 years, happens in all classes. There is nothing in this game to be expert everyone can come and be better than you doesn't matter how many years you play. Bad player is bad player whatever class is playing and as op saying cw is not good and is hard to play.
The imaginary Friends
Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
What differentiate a good CW from a bad one, is mostly the same things that will do so for any other dps, like was mentioned CA, Time on target, buff/debuff timings, daily timing, and so on.. It just that other classes have more.
Note that I'm not saying that a CW player will not be good on other classes, or something, I'm sure that there are many who can easily master anything that thrown at them. If a player understands well the general concepts of DPS, like you outlined previously, then they have a good start with any class. But the fact remains, that now, CW have much less moving parts to track to get a lot out of it, both in general and specifically compared to other classes.
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my 2 cents
there is a big difference between cws that position / dodge and jump well / stamina management
and dont regardless of gear or dps or single / vs aoe boss or not end game or mid game/ flavor of the month blah blah
whether they are perceived as button mashers or not ( you cant stand still and mash in all areas most encounters have long cools downs and there is no mashing unless your arcane empowerment daily is up and that is only on 1/2 Cw paragon ..there is no mashing on cw aoe thum ) that summarizes all basically ..
its not all about Cw dps either it is also about not causing a drain on your healers resources from constantly being hit
or being in incapacitated dazed.. out of range etc and unable to deliver damage
For example, my own ToMM loadout (soulweaver) runs 190k crit as to help support her power of 140k (after stacks.) And in terms of enchantments I am quite short of BiS. For content like ToMM, 130k crit strike is indeed far too low.
edit: started reading on the first page and didn't notice this was already answered... but I'll leave it up as affirmation, lol.
What is an ACT timer?
Title is "Nerfing wizard is always a bad idea".
Cannot discuss the merits, fairness and balance significance of a "nerf" without comparing it to other classes, ITHO.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.