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Yarrow's Mod 17 PVE Hunter Trapper Build

typo#6563 typo Member Posts: 228 Arc User
Here's a Mod 17 "Trapper" concept build that former Trappers might find fun to try out if you happen to have a spare loadout. I do play Warden Melee too, but I've been trying out some alternatives. This particular build is an attempt to compete with Warden with as close to a classic trapper experience as possible and also hard hitting enough to provide viable DPS for most settings. Warden is still safe it seems, but if you're bored with Warden and have a spare loadout, then you might enjoy this, if you can manage to get a smooth rotation going. Also, this may be a little too advanced and too complex for some new players. #TrapperForLife #HappyHolidays

Available from Google Drive @ http://bit.ly/YarrowHunterTrapper



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Comments

  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    Thanks very much! The build looks fun to play =]
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    Thank you for sharing, will definitely check it out soon!
    - bye bye -
  • typo#6563 typo Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    You're welcome @jman3l#5579 and @jules#6770. Any feedback that either of you have would be great to hear.
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  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    @typo#6563 I'll try it out in TOMM. I'm getting sick of melee warden and want to mess around with some other builds. I'm Neko-kun on PC if you ever wanted to chat.
  • typo#6563 typo Member Posts: 228 Arc User

    @typo#6563 I'll try it out in TOMM. I'm getting sick of melee warden and want to mess around with some other builds. I'm Neko-kun on PC if you ever wanted to chat.

    I agree. I personally like the challenge of doing something different part of the time, not because it's necessarily better or easier than the usual way, but simply because of the challenge of it. Of course, it's best to do this with friends who understand what I'm doing. Random groups might not appreciate it as much, haha. If you do run this in TOMM, I'd love to hear how it goes and any suggestions you might have from that experience.
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  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    I think this has some really intriguing possibilities as a different type of build. Have you had an opportunity to test how some of the DoT and Bleed effects impact secondary effects such as weapon enchants (Bile), companion bonuses (OBC, Poisonous Intent, etc.) and other effects like Tenebrous? Specifically, I am curious if the DoT and Bleed effects can proc the secondary effects and, if they do, whether or not they stack or cancel each other out.

    For example, I did some testing with Dread, because on the surface, it would seem that it procs the same magnitude damage over time (10 mag per second over 4 seconds) as does a Bilethorn enchant (40 mag after 4 seconds), but that isn't the case in practice. Successive applications of the dread enchant seem to cancel out previous applications if they occur during that four second window, however, Bilethorn seems to proc regardless of how many times it is applied during that 4 second window.

    Overall, nice job.
  • typo#6563 typo Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    rubytrue said:

    I think this has some really intriguing possibilities as a different type of build. Have you had an opportunity to test how some of the DoT and Bleed effects impact secondary effects such as weapon enchants (Bile), companion bonuses (OBC, Poisonous Intent, etc.) and other effects like Tenebrous? Specifically, I am curious if the DoT and Bleed effects can proc the secondary effects and, if they do, whether or not they stack or cancel each other out.

    For example, I did some testing with Dread, because on the surface, it would seem that it procs the same magnitude damage over time (10 mag per second over 4 seconds) as does a Bilethorn enchant (40 mag after 4 seconds), but that isn't the case in practice. Successive applications of the dread enchant seem to cancel out previous applications if they occur during that four second window, however, Bilethorn seems to proc regardless of how many times it is applied during that 4 second window.

    Overall, nice job.

    There is a lot that can and should be tested with regard to Thorned Roots. Prior to Mod 16, many Trappers were complaining about all the things that did not work with roots. And since Mod 16, testing to date has not revealed anything worth celebrating, but given how much attention has been on Warden, it's worth taking a second look. So far I have not seen Thorned Roots triggering any other effects, but I'll be continuing to look at these things. If you happen to do any testing, that would be great to hear about.

    I do think Thorned Roots can be a good choice if a fight lasts long enough. Some fights are so short though, you are lucky if you get one tick. Even in Tales, often the groups I'm in will just wipe the floor with the mobs. But I can certainly see in boss fights, and of course there is TOMM, where Thorned Roots has a chance to shine given the length of the fights.
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  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    I have not tested myself, but another ranger (that tests often) mentioned that roots do not proc bilethorn enchantment, which is a shame. It would be amazing damage if it did.

    Also, some of my tests lead me to believe that the crushing roots class feature is not working so well? I'm curious to hear other opinions on this. It seems to do basically the same (grasping roots) in ACT with or without the feature.
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User

    I have not tested myself, but another ranger (that tests often) mentioned that roots do not proc bilethorn enchantment, which is a shame. It would be amazing damage if it did.



    Also, some of my tests lead me to believe that the crushing roots class feature is not working so well? I'm curious to hear other opinions on this. It seems to do basically the same (grasping roots) in ACT with or without the feature.

    As far as I can see roots don't proc anything.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User

    I have not tested myself, but another ranger (that tests often) mentioned that roots do not proc bilethorn enchantment, which is a shame. It would be amazing damage if it did.



    Also, some of my tests lead me to believe that the crushing roots class feature is not working so well? I'm curious to hear other opinions on this. It seems to do basically the same (grasping roots) in ACT with or without the feature.

    As far as I tested last time you are correct (but it was some time ago). The only advantage is control.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    @typo: my Hunter build is more or less the same. The main issue I have is that I can't keep a fast-paced rotation of encounters. Recovery is 6%. What I see is that maybe I can keep a decent rotation if I have full AP and use Disruptive to fill gaps, but as soon as I go low on APs I have to use unbuffed at-wills that deal almost no damage. Compared to my Hunter Warden build I'm approximately 25-30% behind in TOO Dread Vault runs (the place where I did some repetitive testing).
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    @gabrieldourden do you have both the ap and recovery boons? I decided to forego the crit sev boon for this loadout. Envenomed journal helps here too. Black ice overloads can also give some AP, and would probably slot both 1010 shirt and pants from fragment expeditions for the potential recovery boost and go to enduring boots for the 3% damage. I'm wondering what the average recovery can be brought to on LSS/GW. I'm thinking the encounter 3% ring from TOMM, and maybe the ranged 3% ring. Tough to say.

    I also am testing using STR/CHA for attributes. Every point in CHA is ~0.33 seconds better recovery. At least that's what it looks like from my initial test.
    Post edited by jman3l#5579 on
  • typo#6563 typo Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited December 2019

    @typo: my Hunter build is more or less the same. The main issue I have is that I can't keep a fast-paced rotation of encounters. Recovery is 6%. What I see is that maybe I can keep a decent rotation if I have full AP and use Disruptive to fill gaps, but as soon as I go low on APs I have to use unbuffed at-wills that deal almost no damage. Compared to my Hunter Warden build I'm approximately 25-30% behind in TOO Dread Vault runs (the place where I did some repetitive testing).

    Hi @gabrieldourden you hit the nail on the head with your observation. Part of how I deal with this issue is in the design of the rotation (see Rotation Strategy section). Disruptive Shot is definitely part of the rotation, sometimes more than once, depending on which of the rotations you look at in that guide. I also leverage the multi-charges of powers like Hindering Shot to fire certain powers more than once. The at-will Careful Attack is also in the boss rotation. And by having incorporated melee, as well as using mount and artifact powers, it becomes a lengthy rotation.

    In addition, to handle AP gain, the Primal Gwanitis boots are a crucial element of the build because you can get a lot of AP over the course of fight when killing mob members and adds around a boss. As @jman3l#5579 mentioned, the Envenomed Storyteller Journal has a nice AP gain feature too. And while I do not mention it (and I need to update the guide about it) I do run Black Ice overload enchantments and use dual Alliance Battle Horns in the tray (note that they do not stack). Between these things, I find I have plenty of AP. Disruptive Shot only requires 25% of available AP and the rotations only indicate to fire it once or twice but there is capacity to fire it once or twice more as needed.

    I won't suggest it is quite as fluid as in the old days when trappers had those amazing cooldown feats in which we could sprint thru the rotation (rinse and repeat) as break neck pace. But with some discipline we can manage the pace of our rotation, including managing the use and recovery of AP, such that we can keep things going.

    I also think that the core stage of the rotation is the ranged stance. Everything else basically wraps around that to buff and facilitate those powers and ensure they can hit hard.
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  • typo#6563 typo Member Posts: 228 Arc User

    I have not tested myself, but another ranger (that tests often) mentioned that roots do not proc bilethorn enchantment, which is a shame. It would be amazing damage if it did.



    Also, some of my tests lead me to believe that the crushing roots class feature is not working so well? I'm curious to hear other opinions on this. It seems to do basically the same (grasping roots) in ACT with or without the feature.

    Do share your tests as there is certainly room for refinement here. :)

    I'll add, Crushing Roots does work as far as its effect on Thorned Roots. Without it, you get 4 ticks of damage per target hit. With it, you get 9 ticks of damage per target. So not only does it double the time, it actually more than doubles the damage due to that 9th tick.
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  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    I see. I had not tested crushing roots with thorned roots. I tested it on my melee warden build to see if it could outperform blade storm in single target (TOMM really). That is interesting with the thorned roots feat. Seems quite good in that case.

    Have you tried CHA attributes instead of DEX? It isn't much, but that small recovery buff might take some of the pain out of that rotation haha.
  • typo#6563 typo Member Posts: 228 Arc User

    I see. I had not tested crushing roots with thorned roots. I tested it on my melee warden build to see if it could outperform blade storm in single target (TOMM really). That is interesting with the thorned roots feat. Seems quite good in that case.



    Have you tried CHA attributes instead of DEX? It isn't much, but that small recovery buff might take some of the pain out of that rotation haha.

    Charisma does noticeably help (a little) in terms of the recharge speed. But I do hate to give up damage from Str or Dex, so I've tried instead to incorporate other things like Disruptive Shot (up to four shots), Hindering Shot (repeat fire up to 3 times with small 3 second cooldown between shots), Careful Attack, Mount Power, and Artificer's Persuasion. It's a choreography of powers.

    I'm not always perfectly consistent and mistakes do happen, but have found with practice it seems to get easier and smoother. I do think it's ok to use charisma though if someone wants to.
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  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User
    Big boost in damage to hunter path according to preview notes.....
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    @rubytrue was just looking at that. More than disruptive, aspect of the falcon, predator and thorned roots looking great right now. At least for single target it could be amazing. Also, delicious nerf to the orcus set.. FINALLY. LSS will hit like a freight train with those % damage buffs.

    The nerf to warden does hurt though. It's about a 7.5% damage decrease =[
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    typo#6563 said:

    I see. I had not tested crushing roots with thorned roots. I tested it on my melee warden build to see if it could outperform blade storm in single target (TOMM really). That is interesting with the thorned roots feat. Seems quite good in that case.



    Have you tried CHA attributes instead of DEX? It isn't much, but that small recovery buff might take some of the pain out of that rotation haha.

    Charisma does noticeably help (a little) in terms of the recharge speed. But I do hate to give up damage from Str or Dex, so I've tried instead to incorporate other things like Disruptive Shot (up to four shots), Hindering Shot (repeat fire up to 3 times with small 3 second cooldown between shots), Careful Attack, Mount Power, and Artificer's Persuasion. It's a choreography of powers.

    I'm not always perfectly consistent and mistakes do happen, but have found with practice it seems to get easier and smoother. I do think it's ok to use charisma though if someone wants to.
    I'm on the same line. Some CHA, some recovery boons, black dragon glyphs and envenomed storyteller. I'll have to try the Primal Gwanitis. Nice discussion! And today we'll get a boost on damage on preview to look at.

    Ty all!
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    High time to change some things around and finally try out Trapper again! :) If I can get a stable rotation that feels good it would improve my ingame experience by 200% compared to Warden, as good as it might be :D
    - bye bye -
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User

    @rubytrue was just looking at that. More than disruptive, aspect of the falcon, predator and thorned roots looking great right now. At least for single target it could be amazing. Also, delicious nerf to the orcus set.. FINALLY. LSS will hit like a freight train with those % damage buffs.



    The nerf to warden does hurt though. It's about a 7.5% damage decrease =[

    With a high AP gain build, hunter can become a single target monster. Disruptive Shot will be up (much) more than encounters.
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    @rubytrue a friend of mine will be testing hunter tonight on preview.

    10% from more than disruptive
    10% from AotF
    10% from predator
    50% buff to ranged via first feat
    Thorned roots buffs

    I'm trying to compare to nerfed warden
    20% from focused
    ~10-12% from skirmishers gambit

    It could be better considering that LSS will hit like a damn tank with those feats. But is thorned roots and forestbond feat enough to compete with blade storm and enhanced conductivity is what I'm wondering.
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 556 Arc User

    @rubytrue a friend of mine will be testing hunter tonight on preview.



    10% from more than disruptive

    10% from AotF

    10% from predator

    50% buff to ranged via first feat

    Thorned roots buffs



    I'm trying to compare to nerfed warden

    20% from focused

    ~10-12% from skirmishers gambit



    It could be better considering that LSS will hit like a damn tank with those feats. But is thorned roots and forestbond feat enough to compete with blade storm and enhanced conductivity is what I'm wondering.

    I'd be real interested in seeing those results. I think there is real potential for both warden and hunter as archers; warden would take the role of an AoE burn build while hunter could potentially fair quite well as a single target bleed build (they would require different weapon enchants). Hunter could also wind up being a straight up blaster; Aimed Shot won't quite get you where you would be with Storm Strike+Enhanced Conductivity (Flurried), but the buff to Disruptive Shot, in a high AP gain build, could essentially turn it into another encounter power--which might mean you would be much less reliant on at-wills as opposed to melee warden. It would also be interesting to see if the buff from Disruptive Shot stacks from the last feat. Snail, AP boon, black ice enchants, lathanders dew, high constitution, primal boots, AP head gear, AP pants, and Envenomed Journal, and you essentially have a bottomless well of AP for hunter.
  • typo#6563 typo Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    @rubytrue

    I agree. In fact, I am in the midst of finishing a second build guide (similar layout as this Trapper one) for a 100% bow build. I'm planning to share it before Christmas and it presents a dual loadout approach like you describe, among other things. There are still a couple key twists you didn't mention. Anyway, mostly I was just noticing the appaulling lack of such builds and thought it would be fun for the holidays to post a couple alternatives to Warden Melee. Ok, sure, there are a few alternative builds out there, but not like the attention Warden Melee has received. Obviously we all know why too. Hunter and ranged in general have some significant challenges. More so even for Trapper. I figured I might get roasted alive for posting such utter nonsense, haha. That type of thing has happened to me with my prior builds. But I have a thick hide. And I'm certainly glad for the mature discussion that has resulted so far instead. I just don't see the point in posting another mainstream build when there are so many of those out there already. Challenging and unusual builds are far more interesting I think. I do run Warden Melee too. I would be silly not to. But there is a significant portion of the time that I am running something else. I think it helps Rangers to learn a lot more about the effective use of their powers when they try a lot of different things. And it's fun.

    And in Mod 18, it might even be more than just merely viable. We'll see!
    Post edited by typo#6563 on
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  • ashbury#6333 ashbury Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    I appreciate the tips in this thread! Trapper is a live and well! I usually run a hunter trapper as well. Very similar build I do run thorned roots and crushing roots and instead of long striders I use marauders. Thanks for the tips on the action points because that is where I struggle. If they are giving a damage boost to the hunter path that will be awesome as it does need it! Marauders has shorter cooldowns than longstriders and if you have stamina you can break the escape off short using shift.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    I like Marauders too, can break off the animation with jumping. If the rotation with Longstriders is struggling with the cooldowns (/the AP gain for daily) I think its a valid option, also for closing the gap in melee stance.
    - bye bye -
  • typo#6563 typo Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    I included a note about jumping with Mauraders Escape. I personally use longstriders just because of gushing wounds, since the bleed dmg ticks are at full damage where as mauraders rush is reduced by 50% due to the Longshot feat.
    Post edited by typo#6563 on
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  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    It surely has the better output, I think its an alternate option if ppl just start Trapper or swap from Combat, cause changing around HAMSTER for more AP might take some time. (Nghgngn; means: I will miss my Furys)

    I stole your build and am clearing trash now until I get back into it, I haven't touched Trapper since I tried out early M16 preview. But I can really see the effort to get the "feel" of trapper back, something that is not easily understandable to people that haven't played it, it seems, but what always kept me hooked even when combat was already shining. I have yet to spend more time on the Hunter loadout, but I'm glad that I kept some of the ranged bonus gear for HR (just to be sure :D)
    - bye bye -
  • ashbury#6333 ashbury Member Posts: 66 Arc User
    @typo#6563 was wondering if you have tried the Armaments of Constructed Demise set compared to the Orcus set and if so what the difference was in dps? For a Hunter using disruptive shot frequently, it is a nice compliment. Especially if the Orcus is nerfed this might be a nice alternative. Also will slightly help recovery time.
  • typo#6563 typo Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited December 2019

    @typo#6563 was wondering if you have tried the Armaments of Constructed Demise set compared to the Orcus set and if so what the difference was in dps? For a Hunter using disruptive shot frequently, it is a nice compliment. Especially if the Orcus is nerfed this might be a nice alternative. Also will slightly help recovery time.

    I've been thinking of switching to the Music Box set after the Orcus set gets nerfed. In a party, assuming the tank has the attention with aggro, it should not be hard to get into position to really take advantage of the 15% dmg bonus of the Music Box set. Interestingly, I have tried out the Demise set and it's not a bad alternative, especially for soloing.

    But specifically comparing the Demise set with the Orcus set, I'm not completely sure on that. The Orcus bonus will vary based on the hit points. It may not be much difference between these two sets and the Orcus set might have a slight advantage.

    But I think the Music Box set will clearly be better where parties are concerned.
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