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Repel should change somehow

wisper2048wisper2048 Posts: 174Member Arc User
edited November 30 in Player Feedback (PC)
Currently repel both and control and dps skill, and it does control in a bad way, it moves target causing melee to dps to miss or to waste time by moving to new position of monster. Sometimes even boss-like demons from demonic bonus HE are moved outside of HE zone and reset. This makes wizard to make a choice, either bad dps or bad group play, since repel is best single target dps.

I think something should be done about Repel, I see the following options:
  • the damage should nerfed and some other single-target wizard power should be buffed (on both loadouts, just pick some underused single-target skills and buff them).
  • the repel should be changed to some stun or freeze skill and have the same damage, there is no big difference for solo play between few second stun and moving, but for party play there is a bit difference
Repel move mechanics might be still useful in some niche situations, like moving mobs off cliff, but in normal encounters it is big annoyance for all melee classes.
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Comments

  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 4,243Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    Repel move mechanics might be still useful in some niche situations, like moving mobs off cliff, but in normal encounters it is big annoyance for all melee classes.

    Which is to say that it simply should not be used in group content. Common sense applies. Granted wizards tend to be the most intelligent of people, but that does not mean that they have any measure of common sense.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • kalina311kalina311 Posts: 1,637Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    also action point gain has been bugged to almost negligible gain amounts on repel for almost year now and no fix .
  • kalina311kalina311 Posts: 1,637Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited November 30
    a guy goes to a doctor

    he says " doctor doctor it hurts when i do this " (use repel and anoy my group )

    doctor : "Then dont do that" (only use it in solo situations/ on tab or in party on single target dps race bosses that are immune to repel anyways )

    why nerf the arcane damage when it is good for single target focused boss dps // end game content .and annoys no one

    or use it as a target finisher not an opener and kill the target... a dead monster cant be repelled :D

    and to solo content to grind you boons to survive repel bother no one

    not to mention a key offensive/ defensive power in a pvp Cws loadout ..you can push people off nodes to win them
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 412Member Arc User
    I think the same arguments apply to shield as well. The difference: No one uses shield

    To me, thats an even bigger problem to fix.
  • akemnosakemnos Posts: 577Member Arc User
    it was so nice. in Mod 15 the community had for the most part taught all CW's to give up on repel and never use it in a group setting. then Mod 16 came around they made it the highest magnitude power for the CW and a huge portion of them starting using it again.
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 826Member Arc User
    edited December 2
    The thing about opponents who get hit with a Wizard's repel spell is, if they survive they will always come back to the attack and the same can be said by the powers from clerics, and fighters that throw opponents away from the group.

    For a melee fighter, why even try to "chase them down"? My tactic is to stay put and allow the opponent to be pelted with ranged attacks as they try to return to attack the group...

    Notice I said "group", any player that attempts to play group content as a solo player is on their own.

    Yeah, sometimes as a melee character I find those powers that toss mobs and bosses around to be inconvenient but who am I to complain about how other players and other classes choose to play their characters - especially if I don't even bother to mention it or suggest a change of tactics during the event?

    Want to change how others play their character? Try offering a friendly suggestion and explain why... It can't hurt.
    DD~
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    edited December 2
    People who use repel are repulsive.

    Edit: though to be fair, the fault really lies with the player. With a little foresight and a modicum of energy, it could be used in meaningful ways. But if someone's only got enough mental processing power to squat in the same frozen puddle for the duration and brainlessly mash encounters, everyone would be better off if they'd just slot ice strike instead.
    Post edited by frogwalloper#6494 on
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    The way I see it, whatever dinkus shoved the baddy across the room can go deal with it on their own. If they want help, they can go toddle themselves over and push it back to where it was in the first place.
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Posts: 956Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Currently repel both and control and dps skill, and it does control in a bad way, it moves target causing melee to dps to miss or to waste time by moving to new position of monster. Sometimes even boss-like demons from demonic bonus HE are moved outside of HE zone and reset. This makes wizard to make a choice, either bad dps or bad group play, since repel is best single target dps.

    I think something should be done about Repel, I see the following options:

    • the damage should nerfed and some other single-target wizard power should be buffed (on both loadouts, just pick some underused single-target skills and buff them).
    • the repel should be changed to some stun or freeze skill and have the same damage, there is no big difference for solo play between few second stun and moving, but for party play there is a bit difference
    Repel move mechanics might be still useful in some niche situations, like moving mobs off cliff, but in normal encounters it is big annoyance for all melee classes.
    I think that they should look more at the dungeons as they are today. In earlier dungeons repel was useful as there where often areas where you could push enemies off a cliff. This should be brought back and then repel could be easily nerfed damage-wise while still keeping it useful. Every class should have some sort of push powers and dungeons should have more cliffs. That will make the game more fun and will give control and postioning again a space in the game meta, which is now DPS, DPS and MOAR DPS.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Posts: 93Member Arc User

    Currently repel both and control and dps skill, and it does control in a bad way, it moves target causing melee to dps to miss or to waste time by moving to new position of monster. Sometimes even boss-like demons from demonic bonus HE are moved outside of HE zone and reset. This makes wizard to make a choice, either bad dps or bad group play, since repel is best single target dps.

    I think something should be done about Repel, I see the following options:

    • the damage should nerfed and some other single-target wizard power should be buffed (on both loadouts, just pick some underused single-target skills and buff them).
    • the repel should be changed to some stun or freeze skill and have the same damage, there is no big difference for solo play between few second stun and moving, but for party play there is a bit difference
    Repel move mechanics might be still useful in some niche situations, like moving mobs off cliff, but in normal encounters it is big annoyance for all melee classes.
    I think that they should look more at the dungeons as they are today. In earlier dungeons repel was useful as there where often areas where you could push enemies off a cliff. This should be brought back and then repel could be easily nerfed damage-wise while still keeping it useful. Every class should have some sort of push powers and dungeons should have more cliffs. That will make the game more fun and will give control and postioning again a space in the game meta, which is now DPS, DPS and MOAR DPS.
    I love throwing( or more accurately trying to) things off cliffs. Unfortunately the distance of the push isn't far enough in some instances. Sometimes it pushes farther than usual. Is this a crit thing?

    IMHO, they shouldn't nerf the damage of repel. They need to buff, another AOE to make it as effective as repel so wizards aren't using it in group play. I try to only use it when the enemies get close to me, and I have no where to teleport to, or when enemies are getting too close to another ranged character.
    On another note, the cast time for fireball is way too long. In group play most of the mobs, are dead, before fireball finishes casting. I only run my arcanist loadout in groups now.
  • akemnosakemnos Posts: 577Member Arc User
    as a TR no they absolutely do not need more cliffs to push things off. I cant count the amount of times i have died because i am in the middle of a duelist flurry on a mob and suddenly he is pushed or knockbacked off a cliff and since DF has a follow component it just follows him off the cliff attacking the entire time as we both fall to our death.
  • dominious12dominious12 Posts: 75Member Arc User
    As a tank player I have to say I despise repel. I've never been killed by it myself, but I have seen other paladins killed because they used relentless avenger or radiant slam just as a mob was repelled and ended up jumping off a cliff. Even when it's not being used in that fashion it is hugely disruptive to positioning. Thanks to inconsiderate wizards that use this constantly I now have a strict "no follow" rule. If you want to blast something out of the pack, you can go over and deal with it yourself, because I won't attempt to hold hate on it.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 721Member Arc User
    It doesn't take much to figure out that the increased difference in damage of a repulsive power over another is negated when you factor in the time lost for melee or ranged teammates that are now out of range and have to move, and the missed encounters it causes, not to mention the time wasted.
  • edenfay#2737 edenfay Posts: 23Member Arc User
    Let's not forget that it ruins the placement of ground-buffs like Pillar of Power when the monster is suddenly flung out of reach. +1 burning hatred for Repel right here
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Posts: 956Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    akemnos said:

    as a TR no they absolutely do not need more cliffs to push things off. I cant count the amount of times i have died because i am in the middle of a duelist flurry on a mob and suddenly he is pushed or knockbacked off a cliff and since DF has a follow component it just follows him off the cliff attacking the entire time as we both fall to our death.

    Same happens with HR's Slasher's Mark (you even change direction mid-time in your flight) nonetheless I'd like to see more cliffs.
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • foxxy#4211 foxxy Posts: 512Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I have suggested before to change the name to arcane force and leave the target disabled/ stunned instead of repeling him, it should be ajusted in module 18
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,076Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Currently repel both and control and dps skill, and it does control in a bad way, it moves target causing melee to dps to miss or to waste time by moving to new position of monster. Sometimes even boss-like demons from demonic bonus HE are moved outside of HE zone and reset. This makes wizard to make a choice, either bad dps or bad group play, since repel is best single target dps.

    I think something should be done about Repel, I see the following options:

    • the damage should nerfed and some other single-target wizard power should be buffed (on both loadouts, just pick some underused single-target skills and buff them).
    • the repel should be changed to some stun or freeze skill and have the same damage, there is no big difference for solo play between few second stun and moving, but for party play there is a bit difference
    Repel move mechanics might be still useful in some niche situations, like moving mobs off cliff, but in normal encounters it is big annoyance for all melee classes.
    The actual Repel/control use to be weapon of choice in PvP.
    But you are right about it being a paradox in PvE.
    It's the best choice (personal) and worst choice (party).

    Tooks are mostly support, tank and heal.
    So Repel is mostly a pain in Took's HAMSTER.
    Ruins a tank's perfect mob placement.
    But Took can understand the temptation to use it. The damage is very good.

    Not a bad idea about making something else top single-target damage (disintegrate or RoE maybe?) and adding a stun to the Repel.
    Then people would only use it solo or PvP (presumably).
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,076Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    > @magdalena#1708 said:
    > I do not use Repel just for damage, I use it for Repel.
    > Unless they nerf it into oblivion-and even then-I use it to keep the mob away.
    > I am a wizard that have spells that cc the mobs.
    > There is no such a thing as a tank perfect mob placement. I place the mobs, you just aggro them.
    > I am the cc in the party, not you.
    > .

    Wow. Yeah... No.
    Took double-dares you to post this comment in The Citadel or The Guard Baracks.
    Took will have to cast Knight's Valor or Divine Pallisade to protect you from the tank rage.

    Gotta respectfully readucate you on this one @magdalena#1708 .

    In party PvE, CCs should be freeze or stun.
    NOT push.

    Yes, wizards are great at freezing. We all appreciate that.
    Good job. Keep it up.
    But pushing into position is NOT your job. NO ONE wants you to push. It helps noone in the party but yourself.

    You are bad at positioning mobs. You are just pissing off your teammates.

    Also... NO. DPS does NOT decide mob placement.
    Not in this or any other MMO.
    If you are constantly running ahead of the tank to "place the mobs" you are being a nuisance.

    Positioning is the tank's job and always has been.
    Tanking is much more than justholding aggro.

    Tank's job:
    1) Get and hold aggro/take all the hits. (which is harder to do when a paingiver-seeking DPS sends the mob to the opposite side of the room).

    2) Group mobs together for better AoE damage (harder when DPS scatters them).

    3) Hold mobs in one position and one direction to allow DPS to get combat advantage positioning (impossible with pushing)..

    On behalf of all tanks, please rethink your role.
    You are important. You CC well. You kill well. Great.
    You want to use repel because it is high damage? That is a reasonable argument.

    But for the love of Ilmater do NOT use it to intentionally place mobs where YOU want them.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dionchidionchi Posts: 826Member Arc User
    edited December 8
    At least one good point was revealed... Push, repel or whatever from just about any source while in a party, usually negates "combat advantage" and has a tendency to reduce the damage dealt by party members.
    DD~
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 4,243Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Magdalena, you are one person of five. You don't know what the other 4 will do at any given moment. I can't tell you the number of times I have gone to use a daily on my fighter, paladin, or barbarian only to have my target suddenly shifted beyond my range. This is never a good thing.

    If the tank is getting low on HP, then it falls on the healer or the tank themselves to refill. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the tank does set the tempo of the dance.

    A good healer makes sure everyone stays in the dance until it ends.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,076Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    > @magdalena#1708 said:
    > One does not recognize a good thing until is gone, it seems.
    > A good wizard in a party means a clean and successful run.
    > The amount of time when I Repeled mobs away from tanks when I saw their hp dropping, I should just let them die and dodge away , just dodge away with my health stone...
    > Repel might look as a nuisance for o.p. parties and is never a nuisance even then, as I said = enough to kill for everyone.
    > If the party is not o.p. -Repel save us all.
    > .

    Can Took borrow a dozen people's hands?
    'Cause one pair cannot facepalm through this level of cognitive dissonance.

    This thread is not about the general value of Wizards.
    Focus up.

    We are talking about the push of Repel only.

    @magdelen11235 , please PM all the grateful tanks who you condesended to "save" with your benevolent Repel.
    Have all of them comment here.
    Let's hear how grateful they all are that you pushed that ONE mob away from them.

    Hell. Took will settle for one.
    Just one, @magdalena#1708 .
    How 'bout it, tanks?
    Anyone run want to show their love for "I push mobs where I want them 'cause I am the CC not you"?

    Let us hear about how @magdalena#1708 's "pushy push" saved your tush.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,983Member Arc User
    Repel is fine (and I love using it :)). In PvE just use it on large unmovable mobs or to finish off a mob. If there are mostly smaller mobs, then slotting an AoE would be better.
  • bpstuartbpstuart Posts: 173Member Arc User
    Repel is useful for solo wizards and for PvE play.
    More than enough power and utility was taken away for the sake of groups to the detriment of solo players already, just tell your party members to use something else if the power bothers you, or come up with tactics that use it to your advantage, some of us rather enjoy it.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,430Member Arc User

    The way I see it, whatever dinkus shoved the baddy across the room can go deal with it on their own. If they want help, they can go toddle themselves over and push it back to where it was in the first place.

    Patience... if you wait a second and a half, they come running back.
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