The Multiverse of D&D

sandukutupu

I was talking to another player and they didn't understand what I meant when I said, "Ravenloft and Spelljammer are not part of this universe.". Just like other series, D&D has created multiple universes to deal with alternate history and settings.

For the most part we play in the Forgotten Realms universe. Ed Greenwood created Forgotten Realms as his personal campaign and detailed in a long series of articles in Dragon Magazine from the late 1980s on to today. While most of the world resembles pre-industrial Earth of the 13th or 14th century, this planet is called Abeir-Toril. It is sometimes shortened to Toril and the region of Faerûn is where Neverwinter resides.

Where did we play before Ed Greenwood?? Blackmoor was the original setting. created by Dave Arneson. But this predates when I even started to play. Blackmoor dates back to 1977 when I was about 12 years old. Ravenloft came out while I was in high school and I loved vampire stories. Ravenloft is another universe and the realm of Ravenloft has more than just Barovia and Strahd. For example, beyond the fog, is other countries held in terror by other dark lords. Dr. Victor Mordenheim is the dark lord of Lamordia, and has created a monster called Adam. Yes a real Frankenstein story just nearby.

Other universes include; Dragonlance, Eberron, Greyhawk (created by Gary Gygax), Planescape, Mystara, Spelljammer, and several others. Even Warcraft on the planet of Azeroth, is part of the D&D universe. But no longer supported by the intellectual property rights. What you don't believe me??

Third Edition D&D

greywynd

Tracy Hickman and his wife Laura created the Ravenloft module for 2nd Edition. Apparently during a dungeon run they ran into a wandering vampire. This vampire made no sense to them being there. It was a random wandering monster encounter. Apparently the only vampire in the entire dungeon. They realized that in D&D, to that point, vampires didn't get any real attention. Then Strahd happened.

Spelljammer is a real oddball in D&D lore and the means to hop from one universe to another. Unless you're on the power level of Elminster, the Blackstaff, or Mordenkainen.

rickcase276

I am not certain there current term for it is universes, I think it is spaces. Sort of like a bag of marbles, each of the different "realms" are a different marble. But from what I read there are still a few gates between the different worlds, like one to Krynnspace in Myth Drannor, etc. DDO obviously uses one of them, as they have expansions into Toril, and they are set in Ebberon.

sandukutupu

@rickcase276 Marvel, DC, and other series have alternate realms, universes, and dimensions. Dungeons and Dragons has introduced multiple campaign settings and the only way to explain how technologies, magics, and monsters stay within those realms is to be in alternate universes, planes of reality, etc.. The planet Ebberon has a lot of advance magical tech, such as trains, also physical differences such as, the twelve moons. The gates between worlds can be crossed but not without great difficulty. These are as @greywynd stated, they explain the variety of content by a wide variety of authors. It is often the discretion of the Dungeon Master how much worlds should interact with each other. The trip between worlds could often prove fatal.

Meanwhile I made a cross over between Neverwinter and Millennium City. The Zorgs of Neverwinter were sent to another realm while fighting in the Dread Ring. Thus their daughter Zandra Zorg aka Red Inferno, remains there in the city where she was born. It will never be offically canonized but it is nice to link some stuff together.

rickcase276

Now if I remember correctly Athas, where DarkSun takes place, is in the same universe/space that Toril is, correct?

sandukutupu

That is a new realm on me, I never played "Dark Sun" at all.

Official website here. Has nothing linking it to Toril or the same universe, but doesn't say it isn't in the neighborhood.
But I found the user supported wiki here. states "Reallu, Athas, like all the worlds of the multiverse, changes with the passage of time. And, like all worlds inhabited by Humans, time is marked by the occurrence of great events."
And of course the Wikipedia says, "Dark Sun deviated from the feudalistic backdrops of its Tolkienesque pseudo-medieval contemporaries, such as Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, in favor of a composite of dark fantasy, planetary romance, and the Dying Earth subgenre.". The information box shows it was property of TSR and now Wizards of the Coast.

I think WotC hasn't done anything with this property since 4th edition.

rickcase276

I think it was either 2nd edition or 3rd that it was said to be a dying planet in either the Realmspace/Toril universe or in the Krynnspace universe. But that of course may have only been said in the novels, and not in the actual game. As it was a place where Kenders were native to, it was more likely it was in the Krynnspace universe.

sandukutupu

rickcase276 said:

I think it was either 2nd edition or 3rd that it was said to be a dying planet in either the Realmspace/Toril universe or in the Krynnspace universe. But that of course may have only been said in the novels, and not in the actual game. As it was a place where Kenders were native to, it was more likely it was in the Krynnspace universe.

I just read this to my husband, he and I are both table top gamers. He wanted me to pass on his knowledge about another game unrelated to D&D but relative to this subject. The futuristic dystopian game "Paranoia" by West End Games, first published a history about their game and then changed the whole set up in the next edition voiding the old history. Then later removed the historical information completely in yet another edition. He said, "I liked the game as it was originally presented. Some meatball got in there and thought the history needed a rewrite. I never played the game often enough to discuss the history, but it helps new players to comprehend how Earth got so messed up."

Since Cryptic has already added elements of Ravenloft and Spelljammer, maybe they will add a trip to "Dark Sun".

rickcase276

I might add too that the kenders from Athas were generally not the happy-go-lucky ones from Krynn. They were closer to headhunting aboriginal tribes, or ashlanders from other games.

gradii

I think NWO is its own universe which just kind of mixes up bits from all of the DnD universes. Thats how we have Omin Dran and his goofy buddies- which is now my favorite part of the game, it made me look up the original Acquisitions Incorporated DnD group's videos.

amascus

I don't recall any ugly... I mean dragon born in the forgotten realms or grey hawk. That was dragon lance right? I only played 1st and 2nd edition though.

sandukutupu

amascus#1899 said:

I don't recall any ugly... I mean dragon born in the forgotten realms or grey hawk. That was dragon lance right? I only played 1st and 2nd edition though.

I believe the Dragonborn race was 4th edition and my husband and I was 3rd edition (1980's), and phased out during that time to raise a family. My 24 year old son, has a 5th edition group he plays with on every other weekend. So the whole 4th edition is lost on my family. I assume the race was introduce in there somewhere.

@gradii I am glad someone enjoys mod 15. I felt like it was out of step with the whole game. While my son, I mentioned above, said he enjoyed playing it, and got the stone. All my people barely started it.

gradii

I'm still trying to get past the stage where you steal eggs from a demon bird over and over. I need 100 acorns.

sandukutupu

gradii said:

I'm still trying to get past the stage where you steal eggs from a demon bird over and over. I need 100 acorns.

That is the one campaign that has a big reward at the end. Many players say they muted the game, just to get through to obtain the legendary enchantment. The way I felt about the module, they introduced the characters very poorly. It is written from the concept you are suppose to just fall in love with office humor in a D&D setting. These people are obviously white collar workers, not everyone can share the sense of humor. They should have introduced a little discovery earlier (this is what I would have done) such as finding Jim Darkmagic in a campaign on a quest, so you get to know him. Then you could use the feedback from that quest to "feel out" the player's opinions about him. After you weigh out the positive and negative reviews, then you can decide how to continue or if there is a need to continue.

I don't mind a little slapstick humor in any game now and then, but an entire campaign of D&D meets the Keystone Cops is a bit much.

Have fun!

greywynd

The first dragonborn (Draconians, actually: Baaz, Bozak, Sivak, Kapak, and Aurak) were from Krynn (Dragonlance). They were created by dark magic using the eggs of metallic dragons.

gradii

Yeah they could have introduced the AI characters better- but I still love the humor and looked up their original stuff, from when they were a DnD group making animated videos about their campaigns, and now i like it even more, my favorite thing in DnD.

ron

Actually, ravenloft did get a forgotten realms adaption in 5e. It's the curse of strahd D&D 5e campaign. I dunno about spelljammer, but i'm guessing it's the same

greywynd

The Curse of Strahd doesn't take place in the Realms. Like the original Castle Ravenloft and The House on Gryphon Hill, it takes place in Barovia. Originally, it was on the Demiplane of Despair. It is now apparently a demiplane of its own.

sandukutupu

@ron#1747 That is very strange because I remember playing Ravenloft in 3rd edition back from around 1986 to 1990, and I still have my books too. My husband has his 3rd Edition boxed sets up in the closet. Ravenloft is another universe of D&D and I would never have placed the icon on the Swordcoast map. It should have been a Vistani talisman off to the side or you should go talk to a Vistani NPC to get there. The way it appears in the game is wrong, but not my call to make.

greywynd

That may not be where the gate is, but rather the stronghold where the Vistani showed up initially when the quest started.

ron

> @sandukutupu said:
> @ron#1747 That is very strange because I remember playing Ravenloft in 3rd edition back from around 1986 to 1990, and I still have my books too. My husband has his 3rd Edition boxed sets up in the closet. Ravenloft is another universe of D&D and I would never have placed the icon on the Swordcoast map. It should have been a Vistani talisman off to the side or you should go talk to a Vistani NPC to get there. The way it appears in the game is wrong, but not my call to make.


The location on the game map is the location you can transfer to barovia FROM, not the location of barovia itself. Barovia is located in the shadowfell

balufunke

To summarize, Shadowfell is a plane of existence. Ravenloft is a slice of that plane. Barovia is a region located in Ravenloft. Strahd rules Barovia.

greywynd

And MasterBlaster run Bartertown.

omega0609

sandukutupu said:

amascus#1899 said:

I don't recall any ugly... I mean dragon born in the forgotten realms or grey hawk. That was dragon lance right? I only played 1st and 2nd edition though.

I believe the Dragonborn race was 4th edition and my husband and I was 3rd edition (1980's), and phased out during that time to raise a family. My 24 year old son, has a 5th edition group he plays with on every other weekend. So the whole 4th edition is lost on my family. I assume the race was introduce in there somewhere.

During 4th edition, more precisely during the Spellplague, Abeir and Toril became Abeir-Toril for a while. With that, the Dragonborn native to Abeir came over and stayed on Toril after that. Before these events, you already had half-dragons and potentially visitors from Krynn.

You can read a little more about their history here and on the other linked pages on there:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tymanther
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dragonborn#History

The events of the main ingame campaign happen some time after the Spellplague (1385-1480 DR), though newer content, some of the modules like Storm King's Thunder, Into the Abyss, Curse of Strahd (Ravenloft), Tomb of Annihilation and Descent into Avernus take place in the "modern" times of the Forgotten Realms. I've yet to find an acurate ingame date, but it should be sometime close to or after 1500 DR.

So yes, the Dragonborn are very new to Toril, quite literally an alien species from another world that has lived "here" for only a few generations.

bpstuart

Here are some from the TSR days.

Al-qadim: the Arabian setting.

Birthright: Kings and knights kind of vibe.

Dark Sun: A post apocalyptic dying world in which psionics started to take the place of magic since magic led to the slow apocalypse.

Dragon lance: we all kinda know Dragonlance.

PlaneScape: Home of the lady of pain, D&D's sharpest dresser.

Kara-tur: an Asian themed setting that had ninjas and Ninja magic.

Maztica: an Aztec themed setting.

Ravenloft: Like Barovia but an entire world.

RedSteel: Hamstering pirates man.

Savage lands: which i honestly know nothing about.

Spelljammer: Magic Space star trek.

Mystara: The one that the D&D arcade beat um up takes place in.

( I only know about most of these because i bought a Wizard's spell Compendium as a kid and some of the spell were particular to certain settings and had them listed. )

Nevertheless, through some deep lore and DM fudging all these disperate realities could fit together in some fashion, and we are already seeing them have aspects migrate in with Curse of Strahd bringing small sections of Ravenloft back in, Calisham basically being the Asia equivilent of toril and savagelands or Maztica could be rebuilt using Chult as a template.

Now these are only old official settings. When it comes to homebrew then the whole 'different universe' thing can get really out there.
Like I helped some religious friends build a home brew that did away with many of the aspects they found troubling. There was a single god and all magic, arcane or Divine all came from that god. There were only humans as playable races, but this was done because the players were newish and didn't want the complications of racial feats to deal with.

Now, take the game i helped my christian buddies run and try to slot it into official D&D lore and it would be like trying to stuff a bowling ball in your pocket. They are just not meant to fit together.

I look at it like this. D&D is the rule set and system first and the lore and setting second.

greywynd

Kara-tur was folded into the Realms. The "Eastern Realms".

sandukutupu

I am starting to wonder if we should expect other TSR titles to join this game?? Such as; Boot Hill, Buck Rogers, or Indiana Jones?