I know weaving well enough, figured it out long time ago on my own, just never knew the name. Also something I found out in your guide when I shortly looked over it:
"You are removed from stealth if you hit a foe with an encounter power"
Should reword to:
"You are removed from stealth whenever you use an encounter power"
The rest of the line is fine. This actually gave me the idea of further balance to give rogues +10k to critical strike in stealth. It would balance out with clerics getting up to +10k to critical avoidance based on stamina.
This guide is from mod 16, this version won't receive anymore edits but I'll try to remember for future versions.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
Figured out by handle? Yes, I am. I behave how I behave so far only because of players behaving like they are gods playing an immortal wizard or cleric and pointing that out every 10 seconds that they are "better" while 90% of them can't even dodge my powers once I start mid-combat swaps.
Let me give you examples.
In IWP so far all wizards I faced in 1v1 had to use their sigil at least 3 times before killing me with a lucky crit via daily on hold/freeze and Seraphine can't even kill me there without use of Xuna - and nearly everyone BIS in IWP has better builds than me right now. I'm not powerful, I'm smart about what I do.
Predictions, mind games, correct timing: this is what should matter in PvP instead of gear check.
Why call me a chicken when I use terrain to my advantage or keep in reasonable distance but away from people? Do people think that when I'm on my offensive Whisperknife build there I'm just going to take all the control to face? With that God awful stealth recharge?
I have been 14 minutes in a 3v1 against a healer paladin, barbarian and wizard, killing 2 out of 3, on my defense anti-control assassin, died only when wizard got that lucky daily while I had low HP. They all had equipment capable of killing me with similar bonuses. What took so long to kill me then? Lack of skill. With smoke bomb, assassinate and dazing strike I could hold back barbarian while wizard's control powers were healing me. Once I was out of encounters for a moment, stealth. Too low HP? Wheel and objects.
I'd say IWP takes more skill due to increased damage from all classes and knowing when to use daily to not just have bulette pup proc or leave enough for paladin sigil to fix them right back up. It's still taking ridiculously long to win in a 1v1 battle, but at least you do stand a chance even on full glass cannon if you play smart. Something that I didn't really see in other people's play styles inside domination. Doesn't take much skill to hit an ice knife on a held target with how quick it procs, or to get that encounter damage via unavoidable stun. Even one of cleric's encounter pierces immunity frames if not dodged on cast which is just before sound appears. There is a reason why in many non-meta matches I use elven battle if there are no clerics or wizards (which is very rare).
There are people who can confirm my 1v5 victory against a bunch of 24k+ with soulforged cleric and rogue, tankbarian, dps tank cleric and yet another rogue. I'm not bragging about it, but I used motherlode and pillars as a way to hide. It was incredibly difficult to win since healer was protected by smoke bombs.
-----
Anyway, end of rant that somewhat related to what I said here. Picking up on Marigold's comment about missing powers that I didn't see earlier. The issue is noticeable on all classes for me at times. It seems like it procced correctly but no effects are applied.
That issue can't be related to ping, mine is in borders of 100-120 and it does happen against other people in my time zone - who should not be able to dodge this easily. Even been testing that out last night, seems like cast time is correct but damage is applied later than intended. Same thing happens on Deft Strike - it should damage once teleported behind foe but there is still a slight delay that gives enough time to dodge it.
On Whisperknife it's much more visible when using Shadow Strike or Impact Shot. There is a clear difference between casting a power and landing a hit.
Well, do I need to say that I got those today just because I can? If anything, nerfing will come too late for me to regret my choices. So far my K/D ratios suddenly became close to 1:1 and is at over 3:1 in IWP, up from 2:1.
If defense build doesn't give advantage over other DPS why couldn't MyerS kill me in 1v1 where I managed to do so?
n IWP so far all wizards I faced in 1v1 had to use their sigil at least 3 times before killing me with a lucky crit via daily on hold/freeze and Seraphine can't even kill me there without use of Xuna - and nearly everyone BIS in IWP has better builds than me right now. I'm not powerful, I'm smart about what I do.
Your claims are both inaccurate and misleading. While you have killed me in IWD, it has not been because you ware smart about what you do. You have (though I haven't seen it recently) used Xuna. You routinely use scrolls of life and stones of health outside of the fenced off area. There have been times where I have killed you 4 - 5 times but you've popped up from using a scroll before I could stomp on you. You have just continued until you got a high end crit with something like assassinate, which I've seen hit for over 300K in IWD.
That's not skill, that's RNG.
I don't care what happens in IWD, I just want to echo MP3's statement that it is not a good metric for the state of PvP.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited November 2019
its funny how a thread about skills and broken items in pvp evolved to stating/bragging how good a person is in open world pvp with companions and other broken items
iwd open world pvp is not a good metric for anything ..
Hey, and what do you know about IWP PvP? Last time I had a stone slotted was in 3v1 when the healer was using those. Scrolls of life: Because no one else is using those. Totally no one is suddenly popping right back up.
"Oh no! he does open world PvP! He uses broken items...!" said the immortal wizard that just gave out an example on broken companion power as well... Hypocrisy on it's finest. It is not a thread whether I am good or not. These items are broken and if suddenly becoming nearly unkillable after swapping to defensive build - just because I could - today doesn't mean anything then I don't know what does. And crying about me using companion powers that everyone else is using with the same companion won't change anything.
If you want to discuss open world PvP and it's 1v1s that can take 30+ minutes then go make a thread instead of insulting me.
I think your inspection shows wrong stats. Need to add PvP boons there. That is my character, who is a node holder, and was doing well enough against you.
Edit: It was after my quick change to WK, which is doing much better than assassin on defense build. +10k Crit Avoid, +5k Defense missing because I forgot to retrain boons
Edit 2 because I won't up the topic without need. Glass cannon DPS are the ones who fall to me after I switched to defense build. If I didn't know who you were in game I'd really think you are Brutal. But guess all you think about is juicy kills instead of trying to think a little. Seen you leaping away from me more than enough.
Meta classes from mod 6 to mod 15 killed pvp what are you talking about? 95% of the community was trs, hrs, hrs, dcs and cws lol. At least you have barbarians actually playing and not going 1 and 20 every match.
From what i tested so far, doing both solo dom and some 1v1s, going full glass cannon DPS on barbarian (let's say almost 50k arp, 70k+ crit, 70k+ power), without sigil and using wheel, didn't perform better than the same build with some more defense and HP. On other classes might be more viable, but for fighters it seemed to me that going full DPS glass cannon might be viable only if you compensate for survivability using sigil. While rogues and rangers can be glass cannon and use journal or other dps artifacts, and perform well (more stealth, more gap-closing powers, ability to strike from stealth or from distance exc...), fighters need to be able to take some more punishment. Someone in the past said "you deal 0 damage if you are dead". So far, my guess ( i do not test in IWD or on preview, i test while i play, when i can) is that OP sigil is indeed performing way better than other artifacts, and are needed for specific builds (glass cannon barbarian is in my opinion one of them) to survive enough and be viable in PvP. Pretty much all the top fighters/barbs i've faced so far use sigil. And when i read that something is "not that overpowered", my experience with old t.fey-t.neg combo tells me that the item might be indeed overperforming in PvP. I'm playing a OP and it's at lvl 62 now, so might waste some refining points and AD and test mythic sigil vs wheel off season, later. But one interesting thing might be if those top fighters and barbarians would stop using sigil and use wheel or journal or staff instead. Would help us commoners see what comes from a build and what comes from that specific artifact or enchant. That's also the best way to solve the dilemma. If you can still perform that well without sigil, then you've the proof that it's not that impactful on PvP performance. The best thing would still be to deactivate mount bonuses, SH boons, and make all artifacts epic or legendary at best, when you enter PvP. That way you take away the largest sources of stat difference (5k more stats from legendary mount, 8k from SH boons) which are harder to get (ToMM rings, some of them at least, can be bought and some are in a decent price range any player can reach doing randoms and refining RADs for 5-10 days), and increase artifacts cooldown, reducing their impact on balance (a mythic sigil vs epic sigil is a whole different story). Would love to see the devs do that.
About CWs with shield, it's the same as old situation when they were using old t.fey and t.neg when the combo surfaced for the first time in old module...3? 4?Don't remember... That's how it seems to me... Any old player can remember. The last time CWs were among the tankiest classes while being a ranged class, was in that period. Correct me if i'm wrong.
I do agree however that PvP is way more balanced now than in the past modules. And more fun to play.
About new players: i still think a proper tutorial, may be designed with the help of veteran PvPers, might help new players to understand how PvP works, tactics exc... And veteran/ top PvPers might actually write guides about how to build and play their class in PvP, rather than complaining about how pugs don't know how to build their toon or play. On forums, on other sites where guides are posted...nobody is stopping them from writing PvP guides, same as PvE players write PvE guides for each class.
I do agree however that PvP is way more balanced now than in the past modules. And more fun to play.
About new players: i still think a proper tutorial, may be designed with the help of veteran PvPers, might help new players to understand how PvP works, tactics exc... And veteran/ top PvPers might actually write guides about how to build and play their class in PvP, rather than complaining about how pugs don't know how to build their toon or play. On forums, on other sites where guides are posted...nobody is stopping them from writing PvP guides, same as PvE players write PvE guides for each class.
I've written multiple rogue guides for PVP over the last few mods and spend a lot of time answering questions. While its true that some veteran players don't do much to help newcomers, its also true that veteran players can only help people who actually care and don't have their head stuck up their HAMSTER.
I often hear players gripe about how veteran players don't do enough to educate newcommers and just complain about the pugs being bad. What doesn't get talked about as much is when pugs simultaneously gripe about us not making any effort to teach them but reject or ignore the help when we give it. You've also got a lot of players who's bad performance is stagnant and they don't really take any initiative to improve, even after years of play. Sometimes this is just them being shy about asking questions or lost but I've seen my fair share of the more irritating cases as well.
Another thing that usually doesn't get taken into account for these sort of conversations is that we can't afford to type detailed help over chat mid match, if we stop that long, we make the team lose or at least get killed. We can sometimes type some shorthand directions but a lot of times, we need to be outside of a match before we can say much.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
You'll always have players who do not care about learning and listening. But you also have many players who look for informations. This section used to have guides and builds posted by experienced and dedicated PvPers. I don't see them anymore. In the past some guides were posted. I think i posted a guide for beginners years ago, and many other players did so, discussing how to move, rotate on nodes, exc... Now it's been years since i last PvPed on my main (i think i stopped PvPing in module 6 or so), but it seems to me that this section is pretty empty. If the game mode is trying to come back, then some guides might actually be useful. And if some players want to attract more players to re-form a premade community with those interested in playing competitive PvP, then it's easier if there are guides around, rather than talking to a specific player in-game and ask for tips. And a tutorial you're forced to complete before going to queue for PvP, created with the help of expert PvPers and veterans, that explains basic strategy and builds for PvP, in my opinion might help a lot. Cause some players usually just "try" PvP, meaning they queue knowing absolutely nothing about PvP. I've talked to some players who said they wanted to try PvP cause they wanted something different from the usual PvE. A good tutorial might help them.
I also do not find it of any use to go on with the talk about "pugs". Point is, most players in NW are NOT dedicated PvPers, premade players or "proper PvPers" (whatever that means). Cause it's a PvE game with some PvP. In this game, 1% of the players play PvP now. Of that 1%, there's a 10% of competitive, dedicated PvPers/ premade players. Even in the glory days of PvP the community was a very small portion of the whole community; and out of that tiny portion, only a small % were premade players and guilds...But whenever PvP is discussed, it always sounds as if PvP should be balanced around BiS builds of competitive PvPers. Now, in my opinion, it's not like that. You must balance PvP on 2 different levels: the main level should balance PvP for non-dedicated, non-competitive PvPers. Cause it's the only way to attract new players to PvP. After that, you balance builds at BiS level and create stuff for the small but active competitive community.
One easy way to do so is this: - solo or duo queue for occasional players, with all i've posted above (no mount bonus, no SH boons, artifacts cooldown raised to 2 or 3 minutes) to drastically reduce the power creep/ gear gap. - premade queue where you queue with a team of 5 players, and where everything is active except companions same as it is now. - a season same as we have now with solo queue - team tournaments for PMvsPM players
But if you try to force all players who enter PvP to be competitive or dedicate lots of time and effort to the game mode, you'll most likely discourage them. Which is what happened in the past and the reason why PvP died,in my opinion. It's a fact that players left PvP when normal queue was the only option, and partially came back when solo queue was introduced. It's also a fact that given a choice between normal (premade) and solo queue, NW community migrated to solo queue. Should ring a bell about what the community of this game wants from PvP...So in my opinion it's better to do what i've written above. What i've always seen, is that what might be balanced, or unbalanced, at BiS level, in NWO is often not unbalanced (or balanced) for less geared players. GWF (now barbarian) was a clear example of this. Being a very gear-hungry class, in some modules we got BiS GWFs which were very very powerful, and less geared GWFs who were cannon fodder. Cause the class literally sucked at low gear, but would transform once geared enough. Some of the most unbalanced builds in the past were possible only when the player got enough gear to hit a specific "threesold", usually stats or a specific combo of gear (for example, fey and neg in old modules, which would become unbalanced only after a certain rank, cause some new effects would become available), or a mix of both.
Just my opinion, however. But i'm no good player so i know nothing. Will let those who reign over the PvP realm (and made it bloom for 17 modules), discuss stuff. Back to stealth mode XD
Comments
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Let me give you examples.
In IWP so far all wizards I faced in 1v1 had to use their sigil at least 3 times before killing me with a lucky crit via daily on hold/freeze and Seraphine can't even kill me there without use of Xuna - and nearly everyone BIS in IWP has better builds than me right now. I'm not powerful, I'm smart about what I do.
Predictions, mind games, correct timing: this is what should matter in PvP instead of gear check.
Why call me a chicken when I use terrain to my advantage or keep in reasonable distance but away from people? Do people think that when I'm on my offensive Whisperknife build there I'm just going to take all the control to face? With that God awful stealth recharge?
I have been 14 minutes in a 3v1 against a healer paladin, barbarian and wizard, killing 2 out of 3, on my defense anti-control assassin, died only when wizard got that lucky daily while I had low HP. They all had equipment capable of killing me with similar bonuses. What took so long to kill me then? Lack of skill. With smoke bomb, assassinate and dazing strike I could hold back barbarian while wizard's control powers were healing me. Once I was out of encounters for a moment, stealth. Too low HP? Wheel and objects.
I'd say IWP takes more skill due to increased damage from all classes and knowing when to use daily to not just have bulette pup proc or leave enough for paladin sigil to fix them right back up. It's still taking ridiculously long to win in a 1v1 battle, but at least you do stand a chance even on full glass cannon if you play smart. Something that I didn't really see in other people's play styles inside domination. Doesn't take much skill to hit an ice knife on a held target with how quick it procs, or to get that encounter damage via unavoidable stun. Even one of cleric's encounter pierces immunity frames if not dodged on cast which is just before sound appears. There is a reason why in many non-meta matches I use elven battle if there are no clerics or wizards (which is very rare).
There are people who can confirm my 1v5 victory against a bunch of 24k+ with soulforged cleric and rogue, tankbarian, dps tank cleric and yet another rogue. I'm not bragging about it, but I used motherlode and pillars as a way to hide. It was incredibly difficult to win since healer was protected by smoke bombs.
-----
Anyway, end of rant that somewhat related to what I said here. Picking up on Marigold's comment about missing powers that I didn't see earlier. The issue is noticeable on all classes for me at times. It seems like it procced correctly but no effects are applied.
That issue can't be related to ping, mine is in borders of 100-120 and it does happen against other people in my time zone - who should not be able to dodge this easily. Even been testing that out last night, seems like cast time is correct but damage is applied later than intended. Same thing happens on Deft Strike - it should damage once teleported behind foe but there is still a slight delay that gives enough time to dodge it.
On Whisperknife it's much more visible when using Shadow Strike or Impact Shot. There is a clear difference between casting a power and landing a hit.
If defense build doesn't give advantage over other DPS why couldn't MyerS kill me in 1v1 where I managed to do so?
That's not skill, that's RNG.
I don't care what happens in IWD, I just want to echo MP3's statement that it is not a good metric for the state of PvP.
iwd open world pvp is not a good metric for anything ..
"Oh no! he does open world PvP! He uses broken items...!" said the immortal wizard that just gave out an example on broken companion power as well... Hypocrisy on it's finest. It is not a thread whether I am good or not. These items are broken and if suddenly becoming nearly unkillable after swapping to defensive build - just because I could - today doesn't mean anything then I don't know what does. And crying about me using companion powers that everyone else is using with the same companion won't change anything.
If you want to discuss open world PvP and it's 1v1s that can take 30+ minutes then go make a thread instead of insulting me.
Edit: It was after my quick change to WK, which is doing much better than assassin on defense build. +10k Crit Avoid, +5k Defense missing because I forgot to retrain boons
Edit 2 because I won't up the topic without need. Glass cannon DPS are the ones who fall to me after I switched to defense build. If I didn't know who you were in game I'd really think you are Brutal. But guess all you think about is juicy kills instead of trying to think a little. Seen you leaping away from me more than enough.
But one interesting thing might be if those top fighters and barbarians would stop using sigil and use wheel or journal or staff instead. Would help us commoners see what comes from a build and what comes from that specific artifact or enchant. That's also the best way to solve the dilemma. If you can still perform that well without sigil, then you've the proof that it's not that impactful on PvP performance.
The best thing would still be to deactivate mount bonuses, SH boons, and make all artifacts epic or legendary at best, when you enter PvP. That way you take away the largest sources of stat difference (5k more stats from legendary mount, 8k from SH boons) which are harder to get (ToMM rings, some of them at least, can be bought and some are in a decent price range any player can reach doing randoms and refining RADs for 5-10 days), and increase artifacts cooldown, reducing their impact on balance (a mythic sigil vs epic sigil is a whole different story). Would love to see the devs do that.
About CWs with shield, it's the same as old situation when they were using old t.fey and t.neg when the combo surfaced for the first time in old module...3? 4?Don't remember... That's how it seems to me...
Any old player can remember. The last time CWs were among the tankiest classes while being a ranged class, was in that period. Correct me if i'm wrong.
I do agree however that PvP is way more balanced now than in the past modules. And more fun to play.
About new players: i still think a proper tutorial, may be designed with the help of veteran PvPers, might help new players to understand how PvP works, tactics exc...
And veteran/ top PvPers might actually write guides about how to build and play their class in PvP, rather than complaining about how pugs don't know how to build their toon or play.
On forums, on other sites where guides are posted...nobody is stopping them from writing PvP guides, same as PvE players write PvE guides for each class.
I often hear players gripe about how veteran players don't do enough to educate newcommers and just complain about the pugs being bad. What doesn't get talked about as much is when pugs simultaneously gripe about us not making any effort to teach them but reject or ignore the help when we give it. You've also got a lot of players who's bad performance is stagnant and they don't really take any initiative to improve, even after years of play. Sometimes this is just them being shy about asking questions or lost but I've seen my fair share of the more irritating cases as well.
Another thing that usually doesn't get taken into account for these sort of conversations is that we can't afford to type detailed help over chat mid match, if we stop that long, we make the team lose or at least get killed.
We can sometimes type some shorthand directions but a lot of times, we need to be outside of a match before we can say much.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
This section used to have guides and builds posted by experienced and dedicated PvPers. I don't see them anymore. In the past some guides were posted. I think i posted a guide for beginners years ago, and many other players did so, discussing how to move, rotate on nodes, exc...
Now it's been years since i last PvPed on my main (i think i stopped PvPing in module 6 or so), but it seems to me that this section is pretty empty. If the game mode is trying to come back, then some guides might actually be useful. And if some players want to attract more players to re-form a premade community with those interested in playing competitive PvP, then it's easier if there are guides around, rather than talking to a specific player in-game and ask for tips. And a tutorial you're forced to complete before going to queue for PvP, created with the help of expert PvPers and veterans, that explains basic strategy and builds for PvP, in my opinion might help a lot. Cause some players usually just "try" PvP, meaning they queue knowing absolutely nothing about PvP. I've talked to some players who said they wanted to try PvP cause they wanted something different from the usual PvE. A good tutorial might help them.
I also do not find it of any use to go on with the talk about "pugs". Point is, most players in NW are NOT dedicated PvPers, premade players or "proper PvPers" (whatever that means). Cause it's a PvE game with some PvP. In this game, 1% of the players play PvP now. Of that 1%, there's a 10% of competitive, dedicated PvPers/ premade players. Even in the glory days of PvP the community was a very small portion of the whole community; and out of that tiny portion, only a small % were premade players and guilds...But whenever PvP is discussed, it always sounds as if PvP should be balanced around BiS builds of competitive PvPers. Now, in my opinion, it's not like that. You must balance PvP on 2 different levels: the main level should balance PvP for non-dedicated, non-competitive PvPers. Cause it's the only way to attract new players to PvP. After that, you balance builds at BiS level and create stuff for the small but active competitive community.
One easy way to do so is this:
- solo or duo queue for occasional players, with all i've posted above (no mount bonus, no SH boons, artifacts cooldown raised to 2 or 3 minutes) to drastically reduce the power creep/ gear gap.
- premade queue where you queue with a team of 5 players, and where everything is active except companions same as it is now.
- a season same as we have now with solo queue
- team tournaments for PMvsPM players
But if you try to force all players who enter PvP to be competitive or dedicate lots of time and effort to the game mode, you'll most likely discourage them. Which is what happened in the past and the reason why PvP died,in my opinion. It's a fact that players left PvP when normal queue was the only option, and partially came back when solo queue was introduced. It's also a fact that given a choice between normal (premade) and solo queue, NW community migrated to solo queue. Should ring a bell about what the community of this game wants from PvP...So in my opinion it's better to do what i've written above.
What i've always seen, is that what might be balanced, or unbalanced, at BiS level, in NWO is often not unbalanced (or balanced) for less geared players. GWF (now barbarian) was a clear example of this. Being a very gear-hungry class, in some modules we got BiS GWFs which were very very powerful, and less geared GWFs who were cannon fodder. Cause the class literally sucked at low gear, but would transform once geared enough. Some of the most unbalanced builds in the past were possible only when the player got enough gear to hit a specific "threesold", usually stats or a specific combo of gear (for example, fey and neg in old modules, which would become unbalanced only after a certain rank, cause some new effects would become available), or a mix of both.
Just my opinion, however. But i'm no good player so i know nothing. Will let those who reign over the PvP realm (and made it bloom for 17 modules), discuss stuff. Back to stealth mode XD