IDEA - Add new PVP "fair and square" mode

theothergaliusz

Fair and square PVP MODE:

I picked this topic as reference:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1250948/make-pvp-according-to-item-level

pros and cons

• IL level does not matter
  
• PVP builds NERFED automaticly by team members
  
• Items stats shared
  
• Items effects, classes, teamwork, bugs -> will have impact on win rate
  
• FIX a group fight 1vs 3
  
• OLD ITEMS BIG comeback
  

Explained MODE rules:

0) Storage the highest IL level that character got in the game in some variable - let name it MAX_IL.
When player put item ON... we update the IL score so we could save the value, but we only update variable when the IL score increase.

1)any player QUEQUE into PVP game.
Let say we have 15 K IL and 25 k IL in the starting match, and average 23k IL for other participants.
Some kind of algoritm will put the wekest player with the strongest player so when we SUM up MAX_IL of two groups they will be somehow balanced with error of 4K IL. It does not matter in Fair and square MODE. What metter is that we have experience player with less experience beginer together in one team. (Of course IL score does not mean experience in PVP - let skip that)

CORE mechanizm of the MODE is to create a temporary 1 per MAP character sheet - lets call it PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET.
When player open his character sheet in PVP match he will see PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET. Each player will see the same stats:

Creating PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET
example with Power stats: 100k power for 8 people, 50k(15kIL) power and 150 power(25kIL)
in the PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET_POWER = power_player1 +...+ power_player10/10
PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET_POWER = 100k and each player will have 100k.
cons of this MOD is that highest IL player lose 50k power, and the beginer gain 50k power and they are in the same team.
This one character will not 1 shot a player and the beginner player wont be killed easly.

This balance will be done for ALL THE STATS in PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET.
EVEN if we have 2 TANK or 2 HEALERS in one group should be able to kill each other.
IF tank stop putting armor penetration, max the DEFENSE STATS - they will still get average armor penetration from all players in the match

What make you win the game are probably ITEMS -> You can get Mirage weapon that are outofDate at the moment with IL score lower than current BIS weapons. IN PVP they will be equals
In this mod THEY WILL HAVE A VALUE as the STATS will be balnced by all players.
RING of vission - to spot invisible players all the Demogorong rings could be bring back to the game and wont be only for refinment or GuidMarks.

I dont want to remove current PVP style, but make a new MODE PVP that can have LOW IL player play with HIGH IL PLAYERS together. it also help recycle old items and make USE of them in the game AGAIN.

This is a RAW IDEA, maybe it will bring PVE players closer to the PVP world and will make place for new players.

SPECIAL CASES:
ONE PLAYER WAS KICKED or quit and is replaced by a new player... THIS Player will use PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET that was calculated at the begining of the match.

This stats balance will bring up diffrence in power from all classes, but it will not request to have 10 enchantmenr socket with POWER, but the best encounters in slot.

the HP stats should not be in PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET - if you have 800k HP paladin or 500k HP TR.
Probably Stamina, AP gain, recovery as well as Physilca/Magical % damage should be unieqe for each player?

PVP BOONS/Guild BOONS should not be calculated in PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET, but should create diffrences between players.

Quetionable is how to take care of temporary stats from potions, spells they also should not be taken into calculation PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET.

There probably a lot of special cases that only some experience player can point out. Give you hate or love for this IDEA. The implementation details should be left in DEV hands. They are experience with Counter stats so this should be piece of cake.

Have FUN PVP game everyone!

kalina311

this is not good idea cause it is impossible to make/plan a stable pvp build/ loadouts if stats keeps changing each match
aside from the fact that this is needlessly way too complicated..

i mean you are proposing a fair and "square mode" but dont want to calculate guild boons as variable between a level 1 guild guy and a level 20 guild guy ...how is that"fair and Square" tens of thousands of stat points difference .. ... your logic is flawed .. Epic proposal failure ..why just why ?

and how are going to do this by locking players items and powers in pvp? *shakes head* that wont go over well either
a player need to be able to change his build and gear to adapt who he is facing . / or switch loadouts at the campfire

Why not just scale everyone enchantments to level 10 for example
guild boons / mount powers / insignia / artifacts ..not that that is the best idea either.

the dev already said that if things go well he wants to make a progression style pvp "PVP CHARACTER_SHEET* where you level up a dedicated character only for Pvp campaign and every one starts out the same /equalized and everything is earned thru pvp

theothergaliusz

kalina311 said:

this is not good idea cause it is impossible to make/plan a stable pvp build/ loadouts if stats keeps changing each match
aside from the fact that this is needlessly way too complicated..

i mean you are proposing a fair and "square mode" but dont want to calculate guild boons as variable between a level 1 guild guy and a level 20 guild guy ...how is that"fair and Square" tens of thousands of stat points difference .. ... your logic is flawed .. Epic proposal failure ..why just why ?

and how are going to do this by locking players items and powers in pvp? *shakes head* that wont go over well either
a player need to be able to change his build and gear to adapt who he is facing . / or switch loadouts at the campfire

Why not just scale everyone enchantments to level 10 for example
guild boons / mount powers / insignia / artifacts ..not that that is the best idea either.

the dev already said that if things go well he wants to make a progression style pvp "PVP CHARACTER_SHEET* where you level up a dedicated character only for Pvp campaign and every one starts out the same /equalized and everything is earned thru pvp

Well that is your opinion and false rumors

In first part you make it that it is wrong to allow players changing guild Boons in PVP match and then you say i proposed some system that not allow changing gear? Did i write something like that? Your imagination toke control . Also i just create a simple title and you make fun of it with so little ( ) arguments. I could named it MEDIAN stats PVP mode.

I think you don't understand the idea. The MAIN point is not to make PLAN and BUILD PVP character, but to enter tournament without thinking that i lack stats. if you slot DARK enchantment ONLY, then you will somehow benefit from Enchantment from diffrent people. You will get median_value for the stats and each friend or foe will have the same stats. If you want to switch to mirage weapons to get the cloning effect then you can still do that... If weapon is GREEN and not legendary grade -> then when you change it... the stats will be the same as for the legendary grade but the DAMAGE will be of the same as GREEN. If you change loadout then you will still have the same stats, but access to diffrent power.
Some guilds dont have pvp boons because players dont do PVP, because they are getting killed by the veternas or full-pvp-geared players.

On the last part you say that DEV will make they own PVP progression. This is still just IDEA and not set plan for the future.
And what i give them is just a magic solution that will be implemented with more knowledge game geeks who is also developer and he will transform it into a completly new system base on what i wrote, but name it after his grandfather. This is called inspiration.

I will just clarify one thing. I have typed this topic because i got bored waiting for PVP match to start. In the end i did not get into match that day and ended up with this topic and presed POST.

"We shall see what future has storage for us. Will this be the END or.. "
I was probably rude to kalina311. I am so sorry!

kalina311

at 1500+ post mostly about Pvp I more then understand your "ideas"

the only way you can do such calculations to figure out the median/ Fair and square before the match is to lock gear or will that be dynamically changing as the match goes on as players change gear/ enchantments ? no my imagination did not take control ..one is contingant on the other calculation of a mean item level/enchantments level/ power level before the match to plug into your formulas so cause gear must be locked ..if not people can swap it or enchantments .

"
PVP BOONS/Guild BOONS should not be calculated in PVP_CHARACTER_SHEET, but should create differences between players."

this means its not fair and square ..all boons even from guild should be averaged in your formula if that is what you are going with. I said nothing about locking guild boons

theothergaliusz said
"I think you don't understand the idea. The MAIN point is not to make PLAN and BUILD PVP character, but to enter tournament without thinking that i lack stats. "

half the fun in pvp or pve is on planning and making different builds for different situations.

If you want to have a pvp mode that is cookie cutter builds mode that player pick from premade characters that is another
facet as well ..

so people can put stats in the hampster places and you get to share and benfit from their poor build planing and layout .. I get it
your method eliminates people to be able to go full defensive mode or glass cannon mode . sorry but i dont like it at all it removes build diversity which the devs already did by dumbing down character creation boons power and stats

different character classes can uses and benefit from stats/ dump stats differently what are you going to average out all players hit points as well and all players bad build designs..it just wont work dude but thanks for putting some input

theothergaliusz

We have both diffrend point of view. From programmer point of view the engine is the limit, but environment tool kit have many possibilities. You cant make a flying mount fly with current engine? The answer is yes you can, but not in the easy way that does not create unwanted problems.

watch out for off-topic below:

You just so happend to say what you like about PVP and I like the same thing you do. But its look like each person have diffrent tase base on age and experience in the game. I was thinking to elminate the bad experience for the majority of players, but it would probably also create lash back because of my poor planing. In my alliance 90% people was not fished by the change in PVP campain or the seazon rewards, because the pvp did not change in term of fairness. Also i meet the same player each time i did the PVP so my timezone probably have less interest in that part of the game. People ask in the chat if PVP is better but they heard the negative answer so people give up instead of trying it.

In the past my guild organized NAKED PVP for fun experience and it was more fun than entering competition with people5x stronger than you. We could create 4 teams in 10min, but if you try making 1 team for normal pvp in your guild how hard will it be?

I could be labeled as the bad guy who hunt poor players and take their candies of happienes. The poor players was not having so much fun as i had as I ended up with xx kills 0 death and that was at the start of the PVP seazon, then i think last week people lose interest as the game got more chalending. It became harded to enter PVP. (i was not in the first or second page at the end of the seazon)

I would like to heard the statistic about the interest of players in PVP from the start to the end of the seazon 0 as announcement or not if the result is very bad. lets keep it quite and take the secrete to the grave.

nagasablade

If you really want to make PVP fair, make everyone's base stats equal and let their build whose good or not