test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

DC near useless in ToMM?

13»

Comments

  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    devilxjk said:


    Want me to show you the proof of me spending over $200? Its gone higher now btw. I don't know what you mean by Bis can be pruchased by $200 because a Bis leg mount is 11mil AD minimum! That alone is $119 lmao.
    Then one r15 enchantment is 2.5mil i.e. radiants. That alone is ... do the maths for each enchantment and bondings. Its way over $200.

    Sarcasm whoosh.
    I will drop the sarcasm and speak plainly.
    Anyone trying to buy their way into endgame viability is doing it wrong.
    Despite popular myth, NWO is not pay-to-win, especially after the Mod16 nerfs.
    It's "pay-for-convenience" at best.
    If you thought paying $200 buys you smooth sailing through the newest and hardest endgame content, that is the problem.
    devilxjk said:


    Also, i joined after the jubilee sale and i am 21.6k AC with mostly Bis gear and baphomet set. Just doing my boons at the moment which should easily take me to 22.5k +. A small buffs is all we asking, why have you got your pants on fire for?

    And here is the second misconception: newest/highest endgame dungeons/raids are not for everyone... not right away anyway.
    And certainly not for a toon who has not finished most of the other campaigns:
    "Just doing my boons at the moment " is the same as saying "my toon isn't completely built up yet".
    Why would you expect an incomplete toon to breeze through the hardest new endgame content?
    It isn't for brand new toons at all.
    That's what happened w LoMM and CR and CODG and ToNG.
    "It was just released. Unfair that everyone cannot run it easily immediately."
    Finish your toon first, mate.
    Plenty of campaigns and content that you have to run yet.
    Then debate if ToMM is fair for your class.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • paulamyo#4926 paulamyo Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    To the people saying: Ey, the group that made it several times had a DC.

    Yeah, I know that. And perhaps if I switch that DC with mine and do it with the same group I can do it. I´m not saying otherwise.

    The problem is that even if with my guild or other groups we have a party of well geared, mechanics knowing people we have it much more difficult if we dont have a healer paladin and most of the DPSs are from the "not-best" classes.

    Its the almost mandatory classes thing that bothers me here.

    In my opinion, it is almost as mandatory to have a DC/SW in the group as did with a pally. While pally shield is good, the group still need a high magnitude healer just in case big shield don't proc or got eaten up by huge damage faster than the pally could proc a new shield.

    Also, in a 10 man trial, 2 spot are for healer class. That means the role for shield provider and high healing rate healer could co-exist. Why fighting for the spot when the role of those 2 type of healer are different? One is to provide shield while the other are to provide heals? Why compare an apple with an orange on which is better? Why feel that DC are less needed in Tomm than a pally when the role that they fill are different? If u want to fill the role of a shield provider, u could just play as a pally.
    Because if shield is mandatory, there should not be only ONE class providing it.

    Is so difficult to understand?
  • paulamyo#4926 paulamyo Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    Let´s make a simple exersize of counting.

    Imagine, is weekend and many people want to enter ToMM. For simplicity let´s assume that there are 3000 healers with the gear and experience necessary to enter ToMM with some chance. Again for simplicity let´s assume that there aren´t population differences between people´s main characters so we have:

    1000 OPs
    1000 DCs
    1000 SWs

    The first thing to take into account is that not all those people will enter as healer. Lets be generous and say that only 20% OPs enter as tank. And lets be generous again and say that 5% of the DCs and SWs have some group that enters ToMM at top level and let them enter as DPS.

    So now we have these healers:

    800 OPs
    950 DCs
    950 SWs

    OP´s shield are almost mandatory, lets be generous again and assume that 90% of those groups wont enter until they have an OP, in reality it will be near 100%, but lets be generous again and assume that there are a 10% of top groups wiling to beat ToMM that will accept entering without an OP.

    That makes 800 possible parties with an OP healer and 88 parties without an OP healer (90% and 10%).

    So now all the OPs are asigned and we have 800 parties with one healer spot open and 88 parties with the 2 healer spots open.

    If we assign all those open spots equaly to the DC and SW, thats 444 for each class.

    So now we have 888 parties completed and these healers without party:

    0 Orphan OPs
    506 Orphan DCs
    506 Orphan SWs

    And that is after being generous with ALL the calculations.

    Note: I talk about healers because DPS DC is a no-go, and people are saying in ths post: enter as healer.
    I want to enter as both!
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    1000 OP :)
    The game is far smaller than you think. Fryday evening, 5 dungeons active in tomm, one group farming the rest trying.

    BTW,if anyone want to know what some player run inside, press O write tower of mad, press enter. You can estimate wich player will succeed and wich not simply by inspecting their gear.
    So did I and watched @gonzalo 's DC..endgear and all stones and gear perfectly arranged. You see some tanks same as dps, mount and insignia are self declaring. When you don' t have that HP boon take the one with 15% incoming healing =bigger blue comfortzone

    I also think critical about implementing an endgear dungeon in a small game like this where 95% of player and guilds have no setup to succeed. But it is what it is and cryptic will have to deal with it or pay the bill in the end if things run wrong way. But I gear up and give it a try once without complaints, even though it is near impossible to get a group setup with a chance to succeed...the game is or went too much into casual direction, tons of equipped and good performing player left since long.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    1000 OP :)

    The game is far smaller than you think. Fryday evening, 5 dungeons active in tomm, one group farming the rest trying.



    BTW,if anyone want to know what some player run inside, press O write tower of mad, press enter. You can estimate wich player will succeed and wich not simply by inspecting their gear.

    So did I and watched @gonzalo 's DC..endgear and all stones and gear perfectly arranged. You see some tanks same as dps, mount and insignia are self declaring. When you don' t have that HP boon take the one with 15% incoming healing =bigger blue comfortzone



    I also think critical about implementing an endgear dungeon in a small game like this where 95% of player and guilds have no setup to succeed. But it is what it is and cryptic will have to deal with it or pay the bill in the end if things run wrong way. But I gear up and give it a try once without complaints, even though it is near impossible to get a group setup with a chance to succeed...the game is or went too much into casual direction, tons of equipped and good performing player left since long.

    There are 2 groups farming tomm, not just 1 but yes, everyone has their gear for the most part sorted.
  • paulamyo#4926 paulamyo Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited August 2019

    1000 OP :)

    The game is far smaller than you think. Fryday evening, 5 dungeons active in tomm, one group farming the rest trying.



    It was just an hipothetical example to make the numbers. If I start with 10 OPs, numbers enter into the decimals quite fast :P
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited August 2019

    1000 OP :)

    The game is far smaller than you think. Fryday evening, 5 dungeons active in tomm, one group farming the rest trying.



    It was just an hipothetical example to make the numbers. If I start with 10 OPs, numbers enter into the decimals quite fast :P
    maybe we get there in time :)
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited August 2019

    1000 OP :)

    The game is far smaller than you think. Fryday evening, 5 dungeons active in tomm, one group farming the rest trying.



    BTW,if anyone want to know what some player run inside, press O write tower of mad, press enter. You can estimate wich player will succeed and wich not simply by inspecting their gear.

    So did I and watched @gonzalo 's DC..endgear and all stones and gear perfectly arranged. You see some tanks same as dps, mount and insignia are self declaring. When you don' t have that HP boon take the one with 15% incoming healing =bigger blue comfortzone



    I also think critical about implementing an endgear dungeon in a small game like this where 95% of player and guilds have no setup to succeed. But it is what it is and cryptic will have to deal with it or pay the bill in the end if things run wrong way. But I gear up and give it a try once without complaints, even though it is near impossible to get a group setup with a chance to succeed...the game is or went too much into casual direction, tons of equipped and good performing player left since long.

    There are 2 groups farming tomm, not just 1 but yes, everyone has their gear for the most part sorted.
    When I pressed "O- tomm"yesterday, there was one group actively farming, so my asssumption. The rest tried to I think, and this estimation relies on the gear inspection... tank at 450k HP, warlock with 250k HP etc. :/
    DPS-Classes exclusively Hunter CW, TR, same as OP and DC as heal at that time, no Barbie tank and no heallock more due to overall small numbers ingame that focus on those path actually
  • aixis2000aixis2000 Member Posts: 211 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I edited my former post and regret it already...

    It has always been that the new endgame was hard but never was the cap that huge...
    2 groups finished it thats maybe around 50 ppl. Lets say there are still 50000 ppl in the game which means thats 0.1% of the playerbase are able to do it right now (only that matters nothing else)
    U sell ur loot in AH for very high prices...but in my opinion u could sell all that stuff even for 100 MIo cause it would be a nice AD sink to ppl with maybe 3,4 or more accounts with max AD stored..

    So: Cryptic made a whole dung only for 50 ppl. In the second/third line there are maybe 500-1000 ppl which can finaly do it end mod 17 or next mod. But the 0.1% already got bored, prices droped and they want new content and even more challenging...and maybe for the next endgame dungeon the 2./3. line will need 2 mods to catch up then...so far so good...

    The problem is less ppl means the company will invest less ressouces but always focused on new stuff....to please 50 ppl but they dont pay money to the game...others do while struggling with bugs and some of them not fixed for years already...

    I really doubt that this way will last very long....
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    so what is the group formation then? 1 heals 3 tanks and 6 deeps?
  • devilxjkdevilxjk Member Posts: 97 Arc User

    devilxjk said:


    Want me to show you the proof of me spending over $200? Its gone higher now btw. I don't know what you mean by Bis can be pruchased by $200 because a Bis leg mount is 11mil AD minimum! That alone is $119 lmao.
    Then one r15 enchantment is 2.5mil i.e. radiants. That alone is ... do the maths for each enchantment and bondings. Its way over $200.

    Sarcasm whoosh.
    I will drop the sarcasm and speak plainly.
    Anyone trying to buy their way into endgame viability is doing it wrong.
    Despite popular myth, NWO is not pay-to-win, especially after the Mod16 nerfs.
    It's "pay-for-convenience" at best.
    If you thought paying $200 buys you smooth sailing through the newest and hardest endgame content, that is the problem.
    devilxjk said:


    Also, i joined after the jubilee sale and i am 21.6k AC with mostly Bis gear and baphomet set. Just doing my boons at the moment which should easily take me to 22.5k +. A small buffs is all we asking, why have you got your pants on fire for?

    And here is the second misconception: newest/highest endgame dungeons/raids are not for everyone... not right away anyway.
    And certainly not for a toon who has not finished most of the other campaigns:
    "Just doing my boons at the moment " is the same as saying "my toon isn't completely built up yet".
    Why would you expect an incomplete toon to breeze through the hardest new endgame content?
    It isn't for brand new toons at all.
    That's what happened w LoMM and CR and CODG and ToNG.
    "It was just released. Unfair that everyone cannot run it easily immediately."
    Finish your toon first, mate.
    Plenty of campaigns and content that you have to run yet.
    Then debate if ToMM is fair for your class.
    you Failed the quote, XD that's not my post
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited August 2019

    so what is the group formation then? 1 heals 3 tanks and 6 deeps?

    2 tanks, 2 healers, 6 dps. You can also run 2 tanks, 1 healer and 7 dps but it is not a preferred setup (read: it is very stressful for the 1 healer).
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 322 Arc User
    As I wrote in Class Forums that the DPS DC is too weak many people told me I´m wrong.
    Good to see that I was not - and especially I know why the DC is too weak.

    Its the only class who needs to mange 3 pipes. Divinity Pipe Radiant and Fire Damage. It will never be possible to be a good DPS. Especially in the future. I can live with fire and radian management but then the whole divinity part needs to be removed. If this is not removed you never will be able to do damage. It´s especially sad for all the players who played a DO DC forever. They are now only healing bots :(
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    Noone said DC is equal to CW, TR Hunter, all said Arbiter is in the same boat like the rest.

    Why is the general recommandation Def +crit avoidance nerd to be capped? Is deflect from no use, or in other words. Is an avoided crit less damage than a deflected hit?
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    Noone said DC is equal to CW, TR Hunter, all said Arbiter is in the same boat like the rest.



    Why is the general recommandation Def +crit avoidance nerd to be capped? Is deflect from no use, or in other words. Is an avoided crit less damage than a deflected hit?

    Hypothermia always targets the clerics. If hypothermia crits the cleric, it crits the whole team. This is why it is recommended.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited August 2019

    so what is the group formation then? 1 heals 3 tanks and 6 deeps?

    2 tanks, 2 healers, 6 dps. You can also run 2 tanks, 1 healer and 7 dps but it is not a preferred setup (read: it is very stressful for the 1 healer).
    that makes more sense to me. I was reading this thread and it seemed like everyone was saying one healer. one spot.. and it was reaffirming my thought that being a healer must realllly suck lol and I was also t hinking what exactly are the rolls then. what does anyone need with 3 tanks!
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User

    so what is the group formation then? 1 heals 3 tanks and 6 deeps?

    2 tanks, 2 healers, 6 dps. You can also run 2 tanks, 1 healer and 7 dps but it is not a preferred setup (read: it is very stressful for the 1 healer).
    that makes more sense to me. I was reading this thread and it seemed like everyone was saying one healer. one spot.. and it was reaffirming my thought that being a healer must realllly suck lol and I was also t hinking what exactly are the rolls then. what does anyone need with 3 tanks!
    Yup. I don't get why people are so particular about pally getting a spot when there are another spot open for DC/SW.
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    devilxjk said:


    Want me to show you the proof of me spending over $200? Its gone higher now btw. I don't know what you mean by Bis can be pruchased by $200 because a Bis leg mount is 11mil AD minimum! That alone is $119 lmao.
    Then one r15 enchantment is 2.5mil i.e. radiants. That alone is ... do the maths for each enchantment and bondings. Its way over $200.

    Sarcasm whoosh.
    I will drop the sarcasm and speak plainly.
    Anyone trying to buy their way into endgame viability is doing it wrong.
    Despite popular myth, NWO is not pay-to-win, especially after the Mod16 nerfs.
    It's "pay-for-convenience" at best.
    If you thought paying $200 buys you smooth sailing through the newest and hardest endgame content, that is the problem.
    devilxjk said:


    Also, i joined after the jubilee sale and i am 21.6k AC with mostly Bis gear and baphomet set. Just doing my boons at the moment which should easily take me to 22.5k +. A small buffs is all we asking, why have you got your pants on fire for?

    And here is the second misconception: newest/highest endgame dungeons/raids are not for everyone... not right away anyway.
    And certainly not for a toon who has not finished most of the other campaigns:
    "Just doing my boons at the moment " is the same as saying "my toon isn't completely built up yet".
    Why would you expect an incomplete toon to breeze through the hardest new endgame content?
    It isn't for brand new toons at all.
    That's what happened w LoMM and CR and CODG and ToNG.
    "It was just released. Unfair that everyone cannot run it easily immediately."
    Finish your toon first, mate.
    Plenty of campaigns and content that you have to run yet.
    Then debate if ToMM is fair for your class.
    LMAO, the topic went from your class just can't be DPS in TOMM to you can't pay to win in this game. What a ridiculous sense of humour you have my friend.

    Come to me as an AC and challenge me in dps and then talk HAMSTER back to me. I have spend countless hours just learning the mechanics of the class and so what if i pay to get the gear i want. Unlike some of you, i work full time and study at the same time. I play when i get the time so there is no way i am spending 10 years to reach BiS. I took my time with the game before i started paying and in 1 month or 2, i will be so busy i might have to take a break. So what's wrong to enjoy TOMM whilst i can?

    The discussion was never about my toon, you just changed the whole topic and put words into my mouth. I just don't want to go TOMM and be a burden to my guildies. Anyhow, i tried TOMM with my guildies with 140k power, we managed to complete the first phase until the glass crystal phase wiped us but the boss had 29% health left. My dps was lacking i must say but it was my first time so not too concerned at the moment. Again, its not about myself, i have 380k HP, and tactical enchantments and etc. Just Power is lacking but 140k is not too shabby.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    Some dungeons are better for some classes, some are not. No need to open a topic about it, it is not like DC needs to be a part of the group at all times and everywhere.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Noone said DC is equal to CW, TR Hunter, all said Arbiter is in the same boat like the rest.



    Why is the general recommandation Def +crit avoidance nerd to be capped? Is deflect from no use, or in other words. Is an avoided crit less damage than a deflected hit?

    Hypothermia always targets the clerics. If hypothermia crits the cleric, it crits the whole team. This is why it is recommended.
    I remember they did something with the everfrost resist but don't remember what? does it make sense for the clerics to use everfrost resist gems and things or pointless?
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User

    Noone said DC is equal to CW, TR Hunter, all said Arbiter is in the same boat like the rest.



    Why is the general recommandation Def +crit avoidance nerd to be capped? Is deflect from no use, or in other words. Is an avoided crit less damage than a deflected hit?

    Hypothermia always targets the clerics. If hypothermia crits the cleric, it crits the whole team. This is why it is recommended.
    I remember they did something with the everfrost resist but don't remember what? does it make sense for the clerics to use everfrost resist gems and things or pointless?
    It does not deal everfrost damage, so there is no reason to.
  • mrimsogoodmrimsogood Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    Coukd be your DC is just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and no one wants it
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    > @thefiresidecat said:
    > (Quote)
    > I remember they did something with the everfrost resist but don't remember what? does it make sense for the clerics to use everfrost resist gems and things or pointless?

    I think what you were referring to is: Everfrost has been removed from the game. (Good riddance.)

    Even before they removed it, Hypothermia never did did Everfrost damage in areas where it appeared outside of SKT content (eg. LoMM, ToMM).
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Sign In or Register to comment.