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Make the uprising Companion Gear Sellable

sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
Out of the 180 different choices we have for companion gear in Uprising, getting the one you want can be a long grind, especially if you have no Alts.

Why not make these sellable for those who are too busy to grind with 10 characters and instead would like to buy them out? All end game players would want the 1000 ilvl with 2 slots, so they take priority.

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  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User
    @sobi#1980

    That mindless grind is actually the only content added with MOD 17 for 90% of whats left of the game population.

    I belive you still remember how devs artificially extended use of MOD 16 expeditions with the add of Watcher set? Without that expeditions would be viable for a month leaving no other content for players not ready for LOMM.

    Now its similar situation - tons of gear, most of it already obsolete gated behind oceans of grind.
    Thats the only devs proposal for new/average players - and to make it clear its been over a year since there was content for average non end game players.

    Just take a look on facts - Castle Ravenloft, Lair of Mad Mage not to mention new trial TOMM are not for average players - so no wonder that devs do what they can to make fillers like expeditions as grindy as possible to keep average/casual players busy, as long as possible.

    On the other heand tho - @fight is also correct.

    MOD 17 is the most unfair mod ever released.

    Its not even about TOMM being gated for so many with both IL/ratings and difficulty.

    Its unfair becouse as you noticed - regular player cannot sell his good drop from expedition on AH (and belive me BIS end game player would gladly buy what you dropped - me included as I hate grind)

    while those tiny elite witch gona be able to finish TOMM would have oportunity to sell legendary rings dropping it TOMM.

    And before some1 will type something stupid like - those average/casual players need to "git gud" and improve their toons and learn TOMM mechanics - just think about how many players not ready for Castel Ravenloft with its release are able to succesfully finish it after a year since release.

    I had many different hopes related with this game rework.
    Now, when I see all of this I feel sorrow.



  • fyrstigorfyrstigor Member Posts: 299 Arc User
    CR was hard, but not to hard. The main reason many didnt do CR very much was because the weapons from there took way to much RNG, the shard was way to low droprate, and the last boss had so many bugs, and badly coordinated mechanics and it often costs a lot of scrolls if u took the average players though. Even the strong groups often had to rely on scrolls for some of the bugs. Everyone i know stay away from the place because of those reasons, not because it was hard, not because it was a slow run if u wanted to take 1 or 2 average players in there.

    LoMM wasnt a true endgame dungeon when it came out, and after enchantment increase and HP drops on everything, it was 100% a casual dungeon for average players. And it still is. I do many runs with a lot of players who are casual, not BiS, not doing what they should with their itemlvl, and none of them have any issues doing LoMM.

    Personally i think its good the pet gear is bound. Pet gear have much bigger impact that gear for on ur toon. If gear was unbound i could see many just selling it because they want some AD, when its bound they can use it or throw it away, and that should somewhat force some of the average geared players to look at the gear, consider whats good, and improve their toons with it.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    fyrstigor said:

    CR was hard, but not to hard. The main reason many didnt do CR very much was because the weapons from there took way to much RNG, the shard was way to low droprate, and the last boss had so many bugs, and badly coordinated mechanics and it often costs a lot of scrolls if u took the average players though. Even the strong groups often had to rely on scrolls for some of the bugs. Everyone i know stay away from the place because of those reasons, not because it was hard, not because it was a slow run if u wanted to take 1 or 2 average players in there.

    LoMM wasnt a true endgame dungeon when it came out, and after enchantment increase and HP drops on everything, it was 100% a casual dungeon for average players. And it still is. I do many runs with a lot of players who are casual, not BiS, not doing what they should with their itemlvl, and none of them have any issues doing LoMM.

    Personally i think its good the pet gear is bound. Pet gear have much bigger impact that gear for on ur toon. If gear was unbound i could see many just selling it because they want some AD, when its bound they can use it or throw it away, and that should somewhat force some of the average geared players to look at the gear, consider whats good, and improve their toons with it.

    Making it bound doenst make ppl consider more whats good, or improve their toons. The only thing it does, is it makes it impossible for some players to get usefull pet gear, since there will be always a portion of the playerbase with bad RNG.

    Im all for making every drop in the game unbound! This would make the game way way way better, while also beeing the perfect solution to the Backlog, because its draining AD from the game.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    gripnir78 said:

    @sobi#1980

    That mindless grind is actually the only content added with MOD 17 for 90% of whats left of the game population.

    I belive you still remember how devs artificially extended use of MOD 16 expeditions with the add of Watcher set? Without that expeditions would be viable for a month leaving no other content for players not ready for LOMM.

    Now its similar situation - tons of gear, most of it already obsolete gated behind oceans of grind.
    Thats the only devs proposal for new/average players - and to make it clear its been over a year since there was content for average non end game players.

    Just take a look on facts - Castle Ravenloft, Lair of Mad Mage not to mention new trial TOMM are not for average players - so no wonder that devs do what they can to make fillers like expeditions as grindy as possible to keep average/casual players busy, as long as possible.

    On the other heand tho - @fight is also correct.

    MOD 17 is the most unfair mod ever released.

    Its not even about TOMM being gated for so many with both IL/ratings and difficulty.

    Its unfair becouse as you noticed - regular player cannot sell his good drop from expedition on AH (and belive me BIS end game player would gladly buy what you dropped - me included as I hate grind)

    while those tiny elite witch gona be able to finish TOMM would have oportunity to sell legendary rings dropping it TOMM.

    And before some1 will type something stupid like - those average/casual players need to "git gud" and improve their toons and learn TOMM mechanics - just think about how many players not ready for Castel Ravenloft with its release are able to succesfully finish it after a year since release.

    I had many different hopes related with this game rework.
    Now, when I see all of this I feel sorrow.



    Most of us were able to do MEs hundreds of times to get what we wanted - so stop crying and keep trying :D
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User

    gripnir78 said:

    @sobi#1980

    That mindless grind is actually the only content added with MOD 17 for 90% of whats left of the game population.

    I belive you still remember how devs artificially extended use of MOD 16 expeditions with the add of Watcher set? Without that expeditions would be viable for a month leaving no other content for players not ready for LOMM.

    Now its similar situation - tons of gear, most of it already obsolete gated behind oceans of grind.
    Thats the only devs proposal for new/average players - and to make it clear its been over a year since there was content for average non end game players.

    Just take a look on facts - Castle Ravenloft, Lair of Mad Mage not to mention new trial TOMM are not for average players - so no wonder that devs do what they can to make fillers like expeditions as grindy as possible to keep average/casual players busy, as long as possible.

    On the other heand tho - @fight is also correct.

    MOD 17 is the most unfair mod ever released.

    Its not even about TOMM being gated for so many with both IL/ratings and difficulty.

    Its unfair becouse as you noticed - regular player cannot sell his good drop from expedition on AH (and belive me BIS end game player would gladly buy what you dropped - me included as I hate grind)

    while those tiny elite witch gona be able to finish TOMM would have oportunity to sell legendary rings dropping it TOMM.

    And before some1 will type something stupid like - those average/casual players need to "git gud" and improve their toons and learn TOMM mechanics - just think about how many players not ready for Castel Ravenloft with its release are able to succesfully finish it after a year since release.

    I had many different hopes related with this game rework.
    Now, when I see all of this I feel sorrow.



    Most of us were able to do MEs hundreds of times to get what we wanted - so stop crying and keep trying :D
    Now, its nice to see that you still remeber how I commened your previous cries about expedition drops:D.

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/13112041

    Unfortunately my comment in this thread has nothing to do with complaining about grind, so using my own citation against me is not well placed here :D but feel free to keep trying


    Its about bigger picture here.
    It actually circles around @adinosii comments form the start of MOD 16.
    Back than he stated that new mod put most of veteran players to the point where their previous achievements and efforts was almost irrelevant. He claimed that its all about new players - to make their life easier.
    And truth is It was hard to disagree with him - back then.

    BUT lots have changed since MOD 16 release (enchantments and legendary mounts rework etc.) and with new TOMM requirements its more then clear that the gap between new and veteran players is not closing at all.


    I am aware that TOMM is not meant for every one - but it is current top end trial, and its requirements both, IL and ratings are real end game border.
    I doubt that any other content added in the future will have lesser requirements - so it is a point to aim in toons building, at lest for now.

    In my opinion, feel free to disagree, now its harder then ever to be able to close in to BIS end game players level.

    First of all pre MOD 16 veteran BIS slot player is either in game wealthy or spends tons of real money or both. For me and few other end gamers I know it was a matter of days after MOD 16 release to have all sats maxed out. Then I had to repeat it twice if I remember well, to adjust to changes in both companions and enchantments. I dont remember but I guess I made about 15 legendary companions before it stabilized. But most of my guild m8s are still strugling with this (especially due to campanion enchantments changes) cos their resurces were small and they refuse to spent real money. Add still diwindling options to get ADs and here is your picture - a game witch only seems to be new player friendly. That is also why there is a few veterans, lot of new players but almost no "middle class" players around.

    Any1 who think different should create a new account and try to get to his current toon progress. I wonder how much time it will consume, and keep in mind - you are already experienced and know what to do and what to avoid witch is a great handicap over realy new player.

    So not BtC or BtA companion items form new expeditions would be great alternative for a new players to earn some additional ADs - and thats exactly why it wont happen.



  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    I think for all that time and effort and real money that veteran players have spend on this game, they deserve some acknowledgement, this should be the case for any MMORPG. The devs will try to prioritise new players because the possibility of them spending more in the upcoming future is higher than for example a veteran that is already BIS in gear.

    But TOMM was a good reminder by the Dev's that end game players matter and as a person who recently started playing this game in MOD 16, i am in my journey to reaching BIS and it makes me happy that there will always be something for me to do (emphasis added).

    However, i absolutely hate the grind that is time gated with bad RNG. The dev's clearly need money to run the game (no brainer), so they should just be direct about this and not get us playing the game for longer so that we end up spending more. In other words, allow us to at least buy the BIS companion gear. The RNG could be bad, but at least when i am grinding everyday for all that AD, i am relieved that eventually i may save up enough for the companion gear i want. This option is also available for players that do not want to spend, so i don't see why anyone would not want the game to allow more gear to be unbound, unless they are a miserable person and have gotten the gear they want and don't desire the same for others.

    I mean as a casual player who works and studies, i am in my holidays for studies so i have some time to spend on the game. I don't want this time to do ME's only to be able to get the gear i want. I can do LOMM easily but TOMM is a different story without the BIS gear and i absolutely thrive on challenge and so do most veteran players. The game has become more about skill than it was before, if i am right on that but many would agree. For end game players skill should be above gear and trust me, i have seen 25k ilvl players do less damage than 20k. Therefore, you can say that Ilvl is indirectly correlated with DPS i.e. higher ILVL does not mean higher DPS and that's a simple fact when all your stats except power/hp can be capped. This is where skill matters and why you see a 20k out dps a 25k.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User
    sobi#1980 said:

    I think for all that time and effort and real money that veteran players have spend on this game, they deserve some acknowledgement, this should be the case for any MMORPG. The devs will try to prioritise new players because the possibility of them spending more in the upcoming future is higher than for example a veteran that is already BIS in gear.

    But TOMM was a good reminder by the Dev's that end game players matter and as a person who recently started playing this game in MOD 16, i am in my journey to reaching BIS and it makes me happy that there will always be something for me to do (emphasis added).

    However, i absolutely hate the grind that is time gated with bad RNG. The dev's clearly need money to run the game (no brainer), so they should just be direct about this and not get us playing the game for longer so that we end up spending more. In other words, allow us to at least buy the BIS companion gear. The RNG could be bad, but at least when i am grinding everyday for all that AD, i am relieved that eventually i may save up enough for the companion gear i want. This option is also available for players that do not want to spend, so i don't see why anyone would not want the game to allow more gear to be unbound, unless they are a miserable person and have gotten the gear they want and don't desire the same for others.

    I mean as a casual player who works and studies, i am in my holidays for studies so i have some time to spend on the game. I don't want this time to do ME's only to be able to get the gear i want. I can do LOMM easily but TOMM is a different story without the BIS gear and i absolutely thrive on challenge and so do most veteran players. The game has become more about skill than it was before, if i am right on that but many would agree. For end game players skill should be above gear and trust me, i have seen 25k ilvl players do less damage than 20k. Therefore, you can say that Ilvl is indirectly correlated with DPS i.e. higher ILVL does not mean higher DPS and that's a simple fact when all your stats except power/hp can be capped. This is where skill matters and why you see a 20k out dps a 25k.

    @sobi

    BIS veteran players are hardest group for developers to carry. They are experienced, demanding, bored and rich.
    This makes them perfect group as testers- developers simply use their commitment in game to get them to test beta versions - casual player dont bother with it. So they got free workers - you know proper QD personel is not cheap, so they are beneficial for the company.

    But - BIS veteran players are also the part of community wich in most cases have already "completed" most if not all the content, and it demands new one.
    In many cases that is also a gropu witch is rich/smart eanugh to not putting any money into the game any more. With such small game as Neverwinter is in therm of population, market and predictable events, veteran players dont need to spent a dime on this game and still with little to no effort got what they need.
    Thats make them pain in the hamster :D

    It is a bitter sweet from company point of view.

    Now grinding - its also a bitter sweet issue.
    Every MMO game have grind. Its intensity depends on many different aspects, but in general its really simple dependency - less content=more grind.
    Neverwinter in general is designed around a grind. If you would spent time to actually check the zones you would find that entire in game "life" is limited to couple of small locations. Rest of the world lies obsolete. Best example is last campaign - 5 zones, and you need like 12 hrs to finish storyline there, then you get some HE grinding and then what? If you not pushing alts trough it its dead places.

    Now look at the number of avilable dungeons/skirmishes/trials - looks ok unless you filter them according to your gear to enter and then if any of those are worthy spending time in them.

    Devs in almost every twitch are saying more or less openly that thay have limited resources. That leads to point when they are unable to create large chunks of content - so only solution to keep players in game is adding a mechanic to force them to repeat content again and again. Simple as that.
    Now, you asked quite resonable question - ok why I can buy what I dont want to grind.
    Seems obvious since you for example can buy campaign completitions or lot of stuff if you exchange ZEN for ADs right? Why they geating those comapnion items then?

    Becouse that would cut a time you spent in game. Just imagin how many players would stop bothering doing expeditions - witch in case of MOD 17 are ONLY avilable new content for most of game population.
    Its is a ghost town already, now imagine what will happen if one way or another you gona cut bonds of grinding..

    Now best part is TOMM - new trial is also a grind trap :D - this time even better then previous trials :D
    Yes sir - a trap - now I dont know how experianced you are but I do remember farming Tiamat, then Demogorgon, then Savrdbord, then Craddle - most of players I know was grinding this never to come back after they finished that - sometimes to help guildies but there was litteraly no reason to go back there ever again.
    So this times devs decided to add legendary rings not bounded. To keep trial alive after evry1 able to finish this will get their weapons out of it - with limited drop rate - in many already obsolete types - but it is nice ilusion that this time those efforts make sense :D - carrots in fron of the donkeys.....

    And the best part is - those new items as you already noticed wont replace a skill :D
    But years of simplest possible dungeons mechanics led to a point when any added mchanics start to be a challenge, that combined with many players coviction that best replacment for skill is to grind better gear makes perfect combination to keep players busy with little effort and minimal content...
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    gripnir78 said:

    sobi#1980 said:



    Now best part is TOMM - new trial is also a grind trap :D - this time even better then previous trials :D
    Yes sir - a trap - now I dont know how experianced you are but I do remember farming Tiamat, then Demogorgon, then Savrdbord, then Craddle - most of players I know was grinding this never to come back after they finished that - sometimes to help guildies but there was litteraly no reason to go back there ever again.
    So this times devs decided to add legendary rings not bounded. To keep trial alive after evry1 able to finish this will get their weapons out of it - with limited drop rate - in many already obsolete types - but it is nice ilusion that this time those efforts make sense :D - carrots in fron of the donkeys.....

    And the best part is - those new items as you already noticed wont replace a skill :D
    But years of simplest possible dungeons mechanics led to a point when any added mchanics start to be a challenge, that combined with many players coviction that best replacment for skill is to grind better gear makes perfect combination to keep players busy with little effort and minimal content...

    That's what all f2p MMO's do, trap you in a grind. That's why subscription based MMO's are the top MMO's of all times and more so at this day and time.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    gripnir78 said:

    gripnir78 said:

    @sobi#1980

    That mindless grind is actually the only content added with MOD 17 for 90% of whats left of the game population.

    I belive you still remember how devs artificially extended use of MOD 16 expeditions with the add of Watcher set? Without that expeditions would be viable for a month leaving no other content for players not ready for LOMM.

    Now its similar situation - tons of gear, most of it already obsolete gated behind oceans of grind.
    Thats the only devs proposal for new/average players - and to make it clear its been over a year since there was content for average non end game players.

    Just take a look on facts - Castle Ravenloft, Lair of Mad Mage not to mention new trial TOMM are not for average players - so no wonder that devs do what they can to make fillers like expeditions as grindy as possible to keep average/casual players busy, as long as possible.

    On the other heand tho - @fight is also correct.

    MOD 17 is the most unfair mod ever released.

    Its not even about TOMM being gated for so many with both IL/ratings and difficulty.

    Its unfair becouse as you noticed - regular player cannot sell his good drop from expedition on AH (and belive me BIS end game player would gladly buy what you dropped - me included as I hate grind)

    while those tiny elite witch gona be able to finish TOMM would have oportunity to sell legendary rings dropping it TOMM.

    And before some1 will type something stupid like - those average/casual players need to "git gud" and improve their toons and learn TOMM mechanics - just think about how many players not ready for Castel Ravenloft with its release are able to succesfully finish it after a year since release.

    I had many different hopes related with this game rework.
    Now, when I see all of this I feel sorrow.



    Most of us were able to do MEs hundreds of times to get what we wanted - so stop crying and keep trying :D
    Now, its nice to see that you still remeber how I commened your previous cries about expedition drops:D.

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/13112041

    Unfortunately my comment in this thread has nothing to do with complaining about grind, so using my own citation against me is not well placed here :D but feel free to keep trying


    Its about bigger picture here.
    It actually circles around @adinosii comments form the start of MOD 16.
    Back than he stated that new mod put most of veteran players to the point where their previous achievements and efforts was almost irrelevant. He claimed that its all about new players - to make their life easier.
    And truth is It was hard to disagree with him - back then.

    BUT lots have changed since MOD 16 release (enchantments and legendary mounts rework etc.) and with new TOMM requirements its more then clear that the gap between new and veteran players is not closing at all.


    I am aware that TOMM is not meant for every one - but it is current top end trial, and its requirements both, IL and ratings are real end game border.
    I doubt that any other content added in the future will have lesser requirements - so it is a point to aim in toons building, at lest for now.

    In my opinion, feel free to disagree, now its harder then ever to be able to close in to BIS end game players level.

    First of all pre MOD 16 veteran BIS slot player is either in game wealthy or spends tons of real money or both. For me and few other end gamers I know it was a matter of days after MOD 16 release to have all sats maxed out. Then I had to repeat it twice if I remember well, to adjust to changes in both companions and enchantments. I dont remember but I guess I made about 15 legendary companions before it stabilized. But most of my guild m8s are still strugling with this (especially due to campanion enchantments changes) cos their resurces were small and they refuse to spent real money. Add still diwindling options to get ADs and here is your picture - a game witch only seems to be new player friendly. That is also why there is a few veterans, lot of new players but almost no "middle class" players around.

    Any1 who think different should create a new account and try to get to his current toon progress. I wonder how much time it will consume, and keep in mind - you are already experienced and know what to do and what to avoid witch is a great handicap over realy new player.

    So not BtC or BtA companion items form new expeditions would be great alternative for a new players to earn some additional ADs - and thats exactly why it wont happen.



    Objectively, making the gear unbound reduces grind. You are not a new player, so the way you benefit from changing the system is not from a new player angle, the way you benefit from it is by having reduced grind. Furthermore, even if you were a new player, being able to farm additional BiS items and sell them for AD reduces the amount of grind you have to do as it increases the rate at which you can earn AD. Finally, if you read your post you refer to the word grind twice, both with negative connotations attached to it.

    I think it is very clear where your agenda is here, your agenda is for, "reducing grind." The funny thing is, I don't even necessarily disagree with you, you just won't admit that you were damn well wrong. Not that it matters, I have dropped both the m17 1010 ilvl pet gear I need and the old gear from MEs, so you can just have fun grinding. A couple of 100 ME runs ought to do you some good and give you plenty of time for reflection.
  • fyrstigorfyrstigor Member Posts: 299 Arc User
    I find it funny how so many think only 1010 BiS works. It is better ofc, but u can balance a toon for ToMM with just the blue gear, even the green gear if ur super unlucky.
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    fyrstigor said:

    I find it funny how so many think only 1010 BiS works. It is better ofc, but u can balance a toon for ToMM with just the blue gear, even the green gear if ur super unlucky.

    If you damn get the right combinations. For example about 12k CA is mandatory in your companion gear and even then you will need more CA to cap. Crit is usually easily capped and not required but accuracy and Armpen are also mandatory. Apparently in TOMM you also require defence and critical avoidance and since you need defence, i presume deflect would also be useful. This is all from the perspective of a DPS player.

    If you get green gear, your missing out on 2 slots of empowered runestone and that's a lot of power. End game players want BIS because it only makes sense to do so.
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    Unbinding drops (keeping them BoE) is a quite good choice imo: could help casual/undergeared players, as it requires luck only basically to make ad, and will speed gearing for newcomers as buyable on ah. Want to add the RNG mitigation for unlucky people and/or the ones playing a toon only. That won't turn game into a p2w as knowing class and game mechanic is still most valuable resource in game atm.
    I'm confident the TotMM ring is an experiment that, if succesfull, will be implemented in future contents.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,402 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    ramesh84 said:

    Unbinding drops (keeping them BoE) is a quite good choice imo: could help casual/undergeared players, as it requires luck only basically to make ad, and will speed gearing for newcomers as buyable on ah. Want to add the RNG mitigation for unlucky people and/or the ones playing a toon only. That won't turn game into a p2w as knowing class and game mechanic is still most valuable resource in game atm.

    I'm confident the TotMM ring is an experiment that, if succesfull, will be implemented in future contents.

    Green and blue are unbound and can be sold in AH. These are good for casual/undergeared players comparing with what they were using already.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    > @plasticbat said:
    > (Quote)
    > Green and blue are unbound and can be sold in AH. These are good for casual/undergeared players comparing with what they were using already.

    read again please :)
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