Defenses shouldn't be 100% against something someone had to buy.
This is actually one of the problems with drains: The opportunity cost to defend against them is higher than the opportunity cost to use them. Drains and drain wards have the same base cost.
If a player uses drains, he gets a benefit from doing so on any player not using drain wards. If he faces a player using drain wards, he still drains a bit.
Conversely, a player using drain wards pays the same cost, but does not gain any benefit unless he faces a player using drains, and even then it just offsets the drain but does not negate it. If he is engaged in combat with a player not using drains, the remaining duration of the drain wards is reduced and wasted.
At a minimum, wards should fully offset drains and should not have their remaining duration reduced unless they are actually up against drains. Because they also offer no intrinsic benefit, they should also be significantly cheaper than drains. And finally, to make the opportunity cost properly balanced, a single type of ward should protect against both AP and stamina drains.
Another option would be to have wards reflect the effect on the drain user, so they'd be draining themselves when they hit someone with wards. That would make the opportunity costs fair. A drainer facing a non-ward user gets an advantage against them. A ward user user facing a drainer gets an advantage against them. And a non-ward/non-drainer user gets an advantage against ward users by being able to benefit from other overloads instead. Rock, paper, scissors.
3
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited October 2019
and then some hamster player is going to wear one drain and one omni ward unless that combo is locked out too ..:D
dont forget there are players that are neither playing with rock paper or scissors with low guild levels that will just get drained anyways..easier just to cut them out of the game ..(the drains not the players lol )
these wards should probably be available for glory in the trade of blade regardless of guild or guild level if the devs are going to insist on keeping drains in ..or put a pack of wards in the season rewards prize pools for 1 token each for like a stack of 100 or allow only wards to be purchased in the auction house too / appear as rewards at the end of the pvp match ..whatever
@qwertyasdfguy dont expect any answer from @greywynd either on this he got owned with my reply and yours and is not an active neverwinter Pvp player he prefers "forum pvp "
I've played against Razorleaf, and one of the few players I can say earned a little respect by declining vote kicks. He doesn't play a lot of matches, but he wins, and as far as I know, doesn't use drains. He's very, very good. We can agree to disagree on the drains, but as a tank in PVP, id like to be able to stop the drain at least with a ward. The drains themselves are one thing, when they cause less to play(as do vote kicks to win), that's a problem. There's too much heals in PVP, and players resort to the drains(at least some) as a result. If they do nerf the heals, then more drains will come out. Presently the #4 person on board uses drains every round, boots people every round, and ignores everyone, so no communication on the team. Main problem is not enough people queing to play other players, its usually the same groups. If someone new...they get vote kicked, even if trying. Or they die 10+ times from drains and say wtf just happened.
Once more: it's ok with ammount of heals in PvP, but shadowclad enchantment which reduces damage taken by enemy up to x4 times just has to be changed.
just about every post i see from you is one line about shadowclad ... its getting old already .. got anything else to say or comment ?
how many players have shadow clad/ pally sigil vs how many players are using drains?? what should that tell you ..?\ and if a person only has one expensive armor enchantment for pvp/ pve they should take the shadow clad off and play naked pvp right ? what about all the pvp /pve players using broken soulforged in pvp why not tell them to dump thier only pve / pvp enchantment as well ? why not complain about that ?
why not actually put out a well proposed thread on how to balance the weapon enchants for pvp then and be part of the solutions instead of parroting the same things over an dover again ?
your logic is flawed you want to fight broken (drains ) with shadows clad armor enchant that is overwhelmingly accepted by the comunity ..that may need tweaking as many things do but its not even remotely on the same scale as bugged as drains a broken offensive item with a broken defensive counter wards/ measures (.. that you are trying to compare with a broken defensive item shadowclad )..
but because you consider it just as broken/ or moderately you use that to justify fighting more broken with less broken
fyi what armor enchant/ weapon enchantment and artifact do you use then that is not broken and acceptable ?
My only problems with Overload Enchantments including drains are that they were limited to Strongholds and not available from the PvP vendors, and that "possibly" a Ward ought to have the same strength as a Drain.
But, imo a having an equal mitigation/ward as a counter doesn't make sense to me because that's what drains are--they drain you like a mixed martial art, a grapple hold/clinch can be more just as effective as, or even more so than, an accurate, well-timed strike. ie. Player's probably should not be able to regenerate stamina if they are being attacked.
Comments
If a player uses drains, he gets a benefit from doing so on any player not using drain wards. If he faces a player using drain wards, he still drains a bit.
Conversely, a player using drain wards pays the same cost, but does not gain any benefit unless he faces a player using drains, and even then it just offsets the drain but does not negate it. If he is engaged in combat with a player not using drains, the remaining duration of the drain wards is reduced and wasted.
At a minimum, wards should fully offset drains and should not have their remaining duration reduced unless they are actually up against drains. Because they also offer no intrinsic benefit, they should also be significantly cheaper than drains. And finally, to make the opportunity cost properly balanced, a single type of ward should protect against both AP and stamina drains.
Another option would be to have wards reflect the effect on the drain user, so they'd be draining themselves when they hit someone with wards. That would make the opportunity costs fair. A drainer facing a non-ward user gets an advantage against them. A ward user user facing a drainer gets an advantage against them. And a non-ward/non-drainer user gets an advantage against ward users by being able to benefit from other overloads instead. Rock, paper, scissors.
dont forget there are players that are neither playing with rock paper or scissors with low guild levels that will just get drained anyways..easier just to cut them out of the game ..(the drains not the players lol )
these wards should probably be available for glory in the trade of blade regardless of guild or guild level
if the devs are going to insist on keeping drains in ..or put a pack of wards in the season rewards prize pools for 1 token each for like a stack of 100 or allow only wards to be purchased in the auction house too / appear as rewards at the end of the pvp match ..whatever
@qwertyasdfguy dont expect any answer from @greywynd either on this he got owned with my reply and yours
and is not an active neverwinter Pvp player he prefers "forum pvp "
how many players have shadow clad/ pally sigil vs how many players are using drains?? what should that tell you ..?\
and if a person only has one expensive armor enchantment for pvp/ pve they should take the shadow clad off and play naked pvp right ? what about all the pvp /pve players using broken soulforged in pvp why not tell them to dump thier only pve / pvp enchantment as well ? why not complain about that ?
why not actually put out a well proposed thread on how to balance the weapon enchants for pvp then and be part of the solutions instead of parroting the same things over an dover again ?
your logic is flawed you want to fight broken (drains ) with shadows clad armor enchant that is overwhelmingly accepted by the comunity ..that may need tweaking as many things do but its not even remotely on the same scale as bugged as drains a broken offensive item with a broken defensive counter wards/ measures (.. that you are trying to compare with a broken defensive item shadowclad )..
but because you consider it just as broken/ or moderately you use that to justify fighting more broken with less broken
fyi what armor enchant/ weapon enchantment and artifact do you use then that is not broken and acceptable ?
But, imo a having an equal mitigation/ward as a counter doesn't make sense to me because that's what drains are--they drain you like a mixed martial art, a grapple hold/clinch can be more just as effective as, or even more so than, an accurate, well-timed strike. ie. Player's probably should not be able to regenerate stamina if they are being attacked.