The State of Mod 17 PVP (First Week of Mod 17 Being Live)

trgluestickz

The following is a summary for both players and devs looking for info on the state of mod 17 PVP:

A lot of the PVP changes mentioned in the mod 17 patch notes and elseware aren't in the live build for mod 17 at all. It sounds like the devs are going to release the missing PVP changes and possibly others we don't know about yet within upcoming patches over the next few weeks. The PVP season rewards and new boons are among the things that are missing right now on live and it looks like the PVP season event is going to start in 1 month.

Players across the board do a lot more damage than they did in mod 16. This is because the critical severity tenacity debuff was disabled during mod 17. Most players and at least some devs thought it had already been disabled in mod 16 but this later turned out to be wrong.

A critical hit for a high damage encounter power or daily power can one shot players with around 300k HP and this happens relatively often now.

This means this mod is shifting to favor more offense oriented builds and playstyles over defensive ones. Critical strike has become even more important than it was last mod and the incentive to add some critical severity and critical avoidance to your character is also stronger now.

Tanks and healers got several nerfs this mod. So far, all the players I've encountered are killable now. Some players I fought today are still tanky but most I've seen haven't adjusted yet and are made of glass right now.

Warlock healers seem to be mostly unchanged from how they were in mod 16.

The leaderboard is currently disabled right now and glory gain is still bugged.

The reduction to stamina regen in PVP is also important to be aware of. You now have to pay closer attention to you and your opponent's stamina since it takes longer to get it back.

A lot more players than usual are queing for PVP so far.
A lot of players seem to like mod 17's PVP more than mod 16's PVP so far but its still considered broken and unfinished.

khandran

A lot of players prefer mod 17 to mod 16 pvp..seriously? mod 16 was so bad that anything is better...oh wait...in mod 17 they removed crit sev depression and comps still work in dom. also who ever asked for stamina nerf?

cilginordek

Why should anyone ever pick a tank path? You get a -10% damage debuff and nothing to show for it.
Whoever though that was a good idea?
Thomas keeps saying in streams that they don't want to make any sweeping changes, and then they go ahead and sweep tank paths under the rug.

trgluestickz

khandran#2092 said:

A lot of players prefer mod 17 to mod 16 pvp..seriously? mod 16 was so bad that anything is better...oh wait...in mod 17 they removed crit sev depression and comps still work in dom. also who ever asked for stamina nerf?

To my knowledge, nobody asked for the stamina nerf. My guess is the devs chose this nerf because of how too much avalable HP, the lack of healing depression, and shields were working off of eachother. Its also possible that this was intended to make dodging classes spam their dodges less and start using them in a more skillful way.

That said, this nerf does present some issues.
Reducing player's stamina regen means that issues with CCs in PVP will probably get worse for all classes since both dodging and shields help protect players from CCs. Because of all the buggy CCs, neither shields nor dodges were reliable against CCs but they did still help a lot. This unreliability also contributed to the tankyness issues in mod 16 because if you can't avoid or block a CC lockdown, you build tankyer instead to try and outlast it. Sadly these same buggy CCs also reduce how effective the stamina nerf would be at adding another skill check of sorts to PVP.

Solutions to the CC and stamina issue above would be to fix the CC bugs that make them do things like go through immunity frames and dodges. Another option would be to make the stamina nerf only apply to sources of stamina regen you add to your character instead of including natural stamina regen.

One of the preview patches for mod 17 listed companions are now disabled in PVP as one of the fixes. This fix appears to have been put into the wrong patch or it failed since it didn't show up in that patch. This hasn't been fixed yet on the live server either.

As for the bit about PVPers liking mod 17 more than mod 16, this seems to be because a lot of these players find it refreshing to have to play in a more alert way and are happy they can now kill the players that used to be immortal. PVP getting updated again also has increased hopes for some players, which cheers them up some.

Crit severity probably does need to reduced some in PVP but I do like that damage output in PVP increased. One of the issues presented by crit sev being stronger is that tank roles will probably start building even more into damage now since its not just the dps roles who got a damage raise. The dps roles will get a boost here and their role will be more pronouced but tank roles will become less pronounced.

The tank paths losing their role based HP bonus instead of HP being stripped from the game in other places also will contribute to tank roles becoming less pronounced.

Its also possible tanks and healers got nerfed to much but I'm still on the fence on that one since its still very early in the mod.

gweddry

A nice summary, though it's fairly early to judge as you mentioned. What is certain is that there's less super tanky/invincible builds than in many previous mods (such as m16), which is a good thing.
I would personally like to see companions and the buggy cc stack system removed first, along with fixing control resist (and related to that, elven battle enchantment). At some point, it will probably be necessary to reintroduce critical severity depression and increase healing depression, but those changes shouldn't happen all at once. We need some time for the meta to settle before changes are made.

stark760

Much more kills now in PVP for everyone, which is good. Glory still giving almost nothing, and leaderboard not there and says 4 weeks until pvp season 1 starts. As a fighter tank, losing the 40% hp buff is a big change, go from 545k to 400k. Stamina drain is biggest change now. Now that players know this stamina change, more are running drain overloads to make it even worse. Incoming healing is dropped a lot, but I don't use OP sigil. Those that do, still heal a large amount. In ACT 20 min test, solo 1 v 1 with one of stronger OP players: OP sigil healed as much as pally shield(almost 5 mil each). Companions still work, except for allure ioun stone. More players are involved, which is good. Leaderboard and rewards need to be updated, waiting 4 weeks for season 1, will lose most of interest by then. And if glory doesn't get fixed, getting newer gear almost impossible.

jonkoca

Done my first few matches in months, seems a lot better atm. Couldn't dodge worth a damn though.

trgluestickz

stark760 said:

Much more kills now in PVP for everyone, which is good. Glory still giving almost nothing, and leaderboard not there and says 4 weeks until pvp season 1 starts. As a fighter tank, losing the 40% hp buff is a big change, go from 545k to 400k. Stamina drain is biggest change now. Now that players know this stamina change, more are running drain overloads to make it even worse. Incoming healing is dropped a lot, but I don't use OP sigil. Those that do, still heal a large amount. In ACT 20 min test, solo 1 v 1 with one of stronger OP players: OP sigil healed as much as pally shield(almost 5 mil each). Companions still work, except for allure ioun stone. More players are involved, which is good. Leaderboard and rewards need to be updated, waiting 4 weeks for season 1, will lose most of interest by then. And if glory doesn't get fixed, getting newer gear almost impossible.

The devs stated that some sources of healing including the paladin sigil will be fixed, but evidently that fix didn't make it to live either.

The last time I tested companions on preview, all companion active bonuses worked on the new map. On the hotenow domination map, several pet active bonuses were disabled but not all of them. Incoming healing pets and raptor didn't work in hotenow dom but the HP and stat granting pets I tested did. The build on live is probably the same way.

I recently asked the devs to remove the stamina drain overloads from the game but I don't know if they will yet.

animamundi24

cilginordek said:

Why should anyone ever pick a tank path? You get a -10% damage debuff and nothing to show for it.

i think the whole "Vanguard path" ability was disabled in PvP, meaning both +40% HP bonus and -10% dmg debuff is out of order. Regardless, it's nothing to opportunate against Dreadnought path, which has same HP but +20% extra dmg from "Revenge" scale, and +30% extra dmg from "Swing of executioner" feat, and +50% extra dmg by Anvil of Doom from "Burden of revenge" feat.

jonkoca

Tbh. Pvp was pretty good for the first week or so, but now it seems to have died completely, haven't had a queue pop in 3 or 4 days. Sad.

animamundi24

jonkoca said:

Tbh. Pvp was pretty good for the first week or so, but now it seems to have died completely, haven't had a queue pop in 3 or 4 days. Sad.

Here is no reason to take part in PvP, whether on your server with ToMM rings acquired already, or on our server with Shadowclad + Sigil of Hamster abuse.

kiraskytower

animamundi24 said:

jonkoca said:

Tbh. Pvp was pretty good for the first week or so, but now it seems to have died completely, haven't had a queue pop in 3 or 4 days. Sad.

Here is no reason to take part in PvP, whether on your server with ToMM rings acquired already, or on our server with Shadowclad + Sigil of Hamster abuse.

The ToMM rings are not a huge factor in either PvP or PvE. They are item level 1010 items ... previously available rings were item level 980 for protege rings or 880 for the Ebonized rings (which generally had better bonuses, like +3% to ranged damage, etc.). So you are talking about potentially a few hundred stat points - maybe a 1% difference between the Ebonized rings and the ToMM rings in total performance.

PvP is dead for a simple reason .... the rewards are simply not worth suffering the abuse, the drains and imbalanced items like shadowclad. The devs really need to add some better rewards to PvP. If you can spend 30 min in TONG and maybe earn a rank 6 enchanting stone .... why can't you maybe earn one for spending 30 min in a PvP match?

animamundi24

kiraskytower said:

The ToMM rings are not a huge factor in either PvP or PvE. They are item level 1010 items ... previously available rings were item level 980 for protege rings or 880 for the Ebonized rings (which generally had better bonuses, like +3% to ranged damage, etc.). So you are talking about potentially a few hundred stat points - maybe a 1% difference between the Ebonized rings and the ToMM rings in total performance.

Excuse me, but you are wrong.
Protege's or Ebonized ring has an incorrect item level. 1 item level is meant to be 20 stat points. You can check any insignias or enchantments for example, their total amount of stats divided by 20 is their item level.
ToMM rings has 20200 stats / 20 = 1010 item level. That is correct and what it meant to be.
Protege's has 11760 / 20 = must be 588 item level. Declared 980 I.L. is nothing but falsification.

So in reality, for example, Dragoturtle Scale Ring is a much more powerful in comparison with Lifebringer's Ring of Protege.

Even through only 30 item level difference, it has +8440 total stat points and +30 Total Rating score, whatever it is.
Lv 15. Enchantments in Attack/Defence slots does not count in gear comparison, so +8440 are a pure stats.
And for two rings total, it will be +16880 additional stat points in total performance.

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lardeson

A gear based pvp where a fresh lvl80 can be put up against an endgame pvp built player? Aha, sounds fair enough.

For pvp to be fun and fair, there has to be a 'fair' mode where everyone is more or less on the same level and skill is the ultimate difference, not gear or broken classes.

kalina311

lardeson said:

A gear based pvp where a fresh lvl80 can be put up against an endgame pvp built player? Aha, sounds fair enough.

For pvp to be fun and fair, there has to be a 'fair' mode where everyone is more or less on the same level and skill is the ultimate difference, not gear or broken classes.

That is what the Dev in th elive stream said he could like to work on next . a progression based pvp where all start out with nothing/ the same stuff

stark760

kiraskytower said:

animamundi24 said:

jonkoca said:

Tbh. Pvp was pretty good for the first week or so, but now it seems to have died completely, haven't had a queue pop in 3 or 4 days. Sad.

Here is no reason to take part in PvP, whether on your server with ToMM rings acquired already, or on our server with Shadowclad + Sigil of Hamster abuse.

The ToMM rings are not a huge factor in either PvP or PvE. They are item level 1010 items ... previously available rings were item level 980 for protege rings or 880 for the Ebonized rings (which generally had better bonuses, like +3% to ranged damage, etc.). So you are talking about potentially a few hundred stat points - maybe a 1% difference between the Ebonized rings and the ToMM rings in total performance.

PvP is dead for a simple reason .... the rewards are simply not worth suffering the abuse, the drains and imbalanced items like shadowclad. The devs really need to add some better rewards to PvP. If you can spend 30 min in TONG and maybe earn a rank 6 enchanting stone .... why can't you maybe earn one for spending 30 min in a PvP match?

A few hundred stats points? The 990 rings have close to 20k stat vs 12k total from ebonized ring. That's a touch more than a few hundred. With 2 rings like that, 16k stat swing. Cmon man.