Once more into the Breach. . . New Professions

grogthemagnif

The Workshop Curse continues. Too many players are making stuff in The Workshop and paying Gold, silver, coppers, or Guild marks for Master Works Items or AD for Reinforcement jewels or stones and selling them on the AH for WAY LESS THAN THEY PAID FOR THE ITEM TO MAKE IT.

All it takes is a few simple calculation to see if you are making OR LOSING money on the AH offered price.

1000 AD = 5 GM, 1 Gold = 2 GM, therefore 1 Gold = 400 AD

Examples: If you paid 200 GM + materials to a Temporary SH Vendor your cost is the cost of materials in Gold PLUS 40,000 AD. (1000 AD * (200/5)) AD + whatever you paid to gather and or craft the other materials needed to make the Item and the deducted Auction House Fee, if you paid 400 GM then it's Gold + 80,000 AD + AH Fee.

If you paid 3 Gold to gather and craft an item then you should not follow the AH recommendation to sell the item for 144 AD ( you just lost 1056 AD plus the Auction House fee) and somebody else GOT A GREAT DEAL AT YOUR EXPENSE .

If you crafted the item to sell to a Vendor, you van probably make a small profit if you ate selling potions or Rare (Blue items) of up to level 20, blue items above level 20 sell for the same price (34 sp 18 cp) as all other Rares, but costs more as the level goes up until the Vendor price is less that the crafting cost.

In DnD 5(e) a suit of Plate Armor, Helm, Chest piece, Arm pieces, and Boots costs 750 gp to make and sells for 1500 gp. The same items in Steel cost about 2 Gold and sell to a Vendor for. . . (wait for it) 1gp 36sp 72 cp.

Under the previous Professions system the cost of making an item WAS ZERO!!! So any income was a profit. Now that artisans are being paid the compensation system for the players is skewed against the players. Vendors paying 34sp 18cp for Blue (Rare) items at all levels was fine when the cost was ZERO, when the cost is more than 34sp 18cp the players are losing game money. That is why many quit. Potions at all levels is mostly profitable because the costs are scaled and so are the sell prices.

FIX PROFESSIONS SO THAT ALL ITEMS, COMMON (WHITE), UNCOMMON (GREEN), RARE (BLUE), EPIC (PURPLE), LEGENDARY (ORANGE) AND MYTHIC (TEAL) CAN BE SOLD AT A PROFIT ON THE AH AND THOSE WHO CHOOSE TO SELL AT LESS THAN A PROFIT SHOULD FOR A QUICK SALE RECEIVE A QUICK SALE AND A MAGNANIMOUS 1 AD COMPENSATION FOR THEIR 'SHODDY GOODS' THAT THEY WANTED TO SELL FOR 'LESS THAN MARKET PRICE' SOLD FOR AN APPROPRIATE 1 AD LESS THAN MARKET PRICE. THIS SHOULD BE PROGRAMMED INTO THE AH PROGRAM THAT THERE ARE MINIMUM PRICES IN AD FOR EACH GATHERED AND CRAFTED ITEM IN THE PROFESSIONS AND THOSE POSTED BELOW THE MINIMUMS WILL BE QUICKLY SOLD FOR 1 AD AS 'SHODDY GOODS'.

BY THE WAY, 50 CP FOR A LEGENDARY ITEM IS AN INSULT.

kreatyve

This would remove the "free market" aspect of the AH and the economy. I don't think that they would do that, but I'll make sure they see the thread regardless.

grogthemagnif

Thank you. Yes, but it would simulate a 'Guild Controlled' market where the Guilds had standards of products and masters sold Shoddy goods at their own peril. The standard would be what could a 0% Commission, 0% Speed Artisan produce and make a profit from.

kharkov58

They are the same shoddy goods as are being sold for double or triple the price by other players. No difference in quality. And no one gets to tell us how much we can sell something for.

mordekai

Hold on...
Let me get this right.

Here's a scenario.
I'm working towards hitting a new rank of Mastercrafting and I need 4 of a certain item, and send my artisan to make a bunch of them overnight, expecting the success rate to see 4 or 5 items, and a couple of failures. Now, if that artisan manages to make 6 and I've got two left over that I don't, and will never, need I can't decide to sell them cheap to earn some bonus AD for me and give someone else a cheaper way to get the item?

And if I DO decide to do that, my Mastercrafted goods are deemed "Shoddy" and I get 1AD??

Is that what you mean?

Yeah, sorry... that whole idea sucks eggs.

You sell at your price, I'll sell at mine, and let the market decide eh?

micky1p00

For every time people ask for Devs to listen more to the community, here is the definitive counter argument.

namelesshero347

Something isn't profitable or there is too much competition? Then don't make them. That's how it works in the real world.

eugeeco

OP would not do well on Shark Tank.

plasticbat

namelesshero347 said:

Something isn't profitable or there is too much competition? Then don't make them. That's how it works in the real world.

+1. I don't even understand why this topic was brought up. If it is a clearly bad deal, don't do it. Even when I was leveling profession, I only chose to make the stuff that had the best opportunity cost and that practice was also applied before the new profession system.

tassedethe13

DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOUR CAPS LOCK KEY TO ?

I FEEL THE SAME

ecrana

Didn't get past the part of OP's post where he was complaining because obviously someone was undercutting his market.

Sale price of crafted items is the decision of the player.

Devs, keep moving along. This is just another bad idea.

cherryman1

All this is that someone is placing their goods on the market at a loss and taking the hit so that they can put that AD into something else that they really want. Maybe the part of the market your in is too saturated that they are planning to sell off their portfolio of stock in that item to buy into doing something else. Or, they are buying that shiney new setup of companions they will need in the new mod and are just clear selling all of their market share of those items. I say let the market stay where it is.

grogthemagnif

kharkov58 said:

They are the same shoddy goods as are being sold for double or triple the price by other players. No difference in quality. And no one gets to tell us how much we can sell something for.

I do. Don't sell Shoddy Goods, kharkov58!

I'm not talking about Treasure Drops, their value is ZERO and any AD is better than none.

grogthemagnif

mordekai#1901 said:

Hold on...
Let me get this right.

Here's a scenario.
I'm working towards hitting a new rank of Mastercrafting and I need 4 of a certain item, and send my artisan to make a bunch of them overnight, expecting the success rate to see 4 or 5 items, and a couple of failures. Now, if that artisan manages to make 6 and I've got two left over that I don't, and will never, need I can't decide to sell them cheap to earn some bonus AD for me and give someone else a cheaper way to get the item?

And if I DO decide to do that, my Mastercrafted goods are deemed "Shoddy" and I get 1AD??

Is that what you mean?

Yeah, sorry... that whole idea sucks eggs.

You sell at your price, I'll sell at mine, and let the market decide eh?

So, you are actually admitting that you DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COST OF PRODUCTION IS. Where in your post was the cost or the proposed sale price?

Yes, 1AD, that's what your fellow Guildmasters would have decreed.

grogthemagnif

namelesshero347 said:

Something isn't profitable or there is too much competition? Then don't make them. That's how it works in the real world.

You sound like comedian Will Rogers, who once said, "Buy Good Stocks and when they go up, sell them. If they don't go up, don't buy them."

grogthemagnif

eugeeco said:

OP would not do well on Shark Tank.

OP is not interested in going on Shark Tank.

grogthemagnif

plasticbat said:

namelesshero347 said:

Something isn't profitable or there is too much competition? Then don't make them. That's how it works in the real world.

+1. I don't even understand why this topic was brought up. If it is a clearly bad deal, don't do it. Even when I was leveling profession, I only chose to make the stuff that had the best opportunity cost and that practice was also applied before the new profession system.

Partly true, in the previous Professions the Artisan cost was ZERO for non-Masterworks. At least you have some idea of Economics, which is lacking in the Developer who set the system up.

grogthemagnif

cherryman1 said:

All this is that someone is placing their goods on the market at a loss and taking the hit so that they can put that AD into something else that they really want. Maybe the part of the market your in is too saturated that they are planning to sell off their portfolio of stock in that item to buy into doing something else. Or, they are buying that shiney new setup of companions they will need in the new mod and are just clear selling all of their market share of those items. I say let the market stay where it is.

I presume they don't know and you assume they do.

karvare

Well, you may feel the right to set prices for other players, however those who commented disagree.
I will reiterate Karkov58's statement, no one gets to set the AH price for other players.

grogthemagnif

karvare said:

Well, you may feel the right to set prices for other players, however those who commented disagree.
I will reiterate Karkov58's statement, no one gets to set the AH price for other players.

That's not true. The original AH programmer DID set the price recommendations and therefore a new programmer can redo the algorithm to "Make it so." (setting price to reflect cost minimums)

karvare

What is not true? They never set a min price, you are a player and we players do not get to tell others how to price. My statement was true and my feeling to this idea. I accept that you want your way, accept that those who have commented do not want your suggestion. Price recommendations is not a set price and should not be.

lantern22

Let the market set the price

greywynd

I was always under the impression that market history set the suggested sell point.

b4t1b4t

That would also depend on what one is crafting and selling and for what price that one person spent to craft the item.
Example for me I can take 50K AD and craft 3 Fang Needles so why not sell them for lets say 100K AD each? I still get back that 50K I used plus profit so really I did not waste any thing.
The same can be said about many items that are being sold in AH masterwork or other wise.
Its all about how much was spent to craft the item.

plasticbat

greywynd said:

I was always under the impression that market history set the suggested sell point.

Yes, I believe that is the case and you can 'adjust' that too. I usually don't use the suggested price. I usually post above the minimum price in the market. Usually, when I do that a few times, the suggested price would be raised.

grogthemagnif

karvare said:

What is not true? They never set a min price, you are a player and we players do not get to tell others how to price. My statement was true and my feeling to this idea. I accept that you want your way, accept that those who have commented do not want your suggestion. Price recommendations is not a set price and should not be.

I never implied that I would be the one to set min. prices, but that would be left to the programmer/developers using the info already set up in the new professions to create minimum prices for items made in Professions and sold in the AH. The Devs are going to have to do the work.

The AH price is not set by the cost minimum, it's set by Sale volume. 400 + lots of the same item has a lower recommended price than 14 or 1 item.

Once on Preview, I put up 99 skill kits - recommended price 300+ Million AD. Nice if you can get it. For something about a Maximum price of 100 Million AD cap, my item was rejected, so i sold it for my regular price on the NW AH and received my usual net cost.

grogthemagnif

b4t1b4t said:

That would also depend on what one is crafting and selling and for what price that one person spent to craft the item.
Example for me I can take 50K AD and craft 3 Fang Needles so why not sell them for lets say 100K AD each? I still get back that 50K I used plus profit so really I did not waste any thing.
The same can be said about many items that are being sold in AH masterwork or other wise.
Its all about how much was spent to craft the item.

I have no problem with your making a profit, but usually costs are in Gold, Silver, Copper and/or Guildmarks [for maps to materials and to vendors for making the pieces], and sometimes the cost is in AD too and the AH uses AD as an exchange.

Answer this: What is the Gold cost to make a Suit of Steel Plate Armor, [ 1 helm, 2 arm pieces, 1 chest piece and 2 Foot pieces] in Gold, Silver and Copper (including gathering costs for the materials needed to be gathered) and how much does that translate into AD to make a profit after the 10% AH fee is deducted. And show your work.

grogthemagnif

greywynd said:

I was always under the impression that market history set the suggested sell point.

Yes it does and that was fine when all the costs were ZERO. The costs are not zero now and some items cost more to make than you can sell them to a vendor for and other items are sold for way less than the cost of production, because the AH prices are based on market history, not real costs.