So 'Common Cause' Neverdeath version got nerfed...

tribbulater
tribbulater Member Posts: 179 Arc User
Was in Neverdeath yesterday to pick up 'Defeating Dragons' quickly. Guy was asking for help with Ghost Stories. I helped but also told him in future if he was stuck on it, he can just pick up the Common Cause quest which gives Swapping Gravestones, Dead Men Tell No Tales, and Ghost Stories; and if he couldn't do Ghost Stories he could just pick up Gravestones and No Tales, do those two, and it would complete (takes a couple days to get both quests).

He said no, he only got Dead Men and Ghost stories and no third option (which is the way all the higher level Common Cause quests work iirc, in Ebon Downs, Whispering Caverns etc). So the only way to complete it is to run the daily quest and Ghost Stories.

I don't have any low level characters atm, so can't check if this applies all the way down. It was my understanding that Neverdeath version of Common Cause had the 'easy' complete option because it is available at low level to players starting their first campaign - who might have considerable difficulty completing Ghost Stories on their own.

It allowed lower players to complete the daily quest without having to wait for higher people to volunteer to run the content with them.

If anybody with lower players could check on this (does this apply to everyone now?) and also maybe on how hard Ghost Stories is to complete at lower levels, that information would be good to know.

Comments

  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,451 Arc User
    Ghost Stories was aimed at L70 even though it was given earlier. Still requires a party until you can solo it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • tribbulater
    tribbulater Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Ghost Stories was aimed at L70 even though it was given earlier. Still requires a party until you can solo it.

    I'm not sure what your point is?

    I was noting that previously, low level players were given the Neverdeath version of Common Cause, and if they were unable to complete it due to it being set for level 70, they had the option of waiting a couple days and picking up the other daily task, completing both daily tasks, and thereby completing Common Cause at low level without needing to wait for a group willing to do Ghost Stories with them. (If you have never stood around Neverdeath LFGing a GS group... it can take quite a while at times.)

    Basically they have removed the option for players to solo-complete the Common Cause quests they receive at what, level 20 ish? And forcing them to team up with higher players in order to complete it.

  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,451 Arc User
    I never saw that option. The easiest, best option was to always ask for a party going in.

    They may not have 'nerfed' it, so much as plugging an exploit that was never intended to exist if they fixed it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • pitshade
    pitshade Member Posts: 5,417 Arc User
    Common Cause has never worked that way. You are assigned a zone and tasked with completing the non-dragon daily quest (Grave Swapping or Dead Men Tale No Tales for Neverdeath) there and also Culling the Cultists. If you are at the minimum level for it (was 60 before mod 16, not sure now) you are also required to do the lair in the same zone. The quest tracker shows exactly what needs to be done and there has never been any substitution of quests shown there. If someone found a way to do that, it wasn't intentional. AFAIK, the only thing that ever changed with CC quest is the removal of the daily dragon requirement.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • tribbulater
    tribbulater Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    Common Cause has never worked that way. You are assigned a zone and tasked with completing the non-dragon daily quest (Grave Swapping or Dead Men Tale No Tales for Neverdeath) there and also Culling the Cultists. If you are at the minimum level for it (was 60 before mod 16, not sure now) you are also required to do the lair in the same zone. The quest tracker shows exactly what needs to be done and there has never been any substitution of quests shown there. If someone found a way to do that, it wasn't intentional. AFAIK, the only thing that ever changed with CC quest is the removal of the daily dragon requirement.

    Ah, well, sorry to inform you, but they start giving Common Cause at like level 25 or something. And until this most recent patch, when you got the Neverdeath version of it, it gave you Grave Swapping, Dead Men Tell No Tales, and Ghost Stories. Completing any two of those 3 completed the quest - which meant that the quest was actually solo-able for low players when they first got it. Assuming they were willing to wait an extra couple days to pick up the second of the two zone tasks.

    It is not a 'substitution' of a quest since it was given with all 3 options. Perhaps it was unintentional, although it has been that way for at least 3 years - because I did it that way myself with all new chars I have started in the past 3 years. My post already pointed out that other, higher zones versions of Common Cause does require the zone lair.

    To me, it made sense that Neverdeath had a method of completion that involved patience/waiting, since you are only in your 20s when you get it, and you can't solo the lair or even do it with a less-than-full party of similar levels. You need to beg high levels to help you complete it, essentially.

    Just as a tip, for both responders: just because you never saw something, and never tried it, does not mean it didn't exist.

    Regardless, thank you for the responses and thoughts.
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,451 Arc User
    Tyranny starts at L26. Tasks required at lower levels were of the "do this for X in zone Y". Ghost Stories becomes available some time around L60.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • pitshade
    pitshade Member Posts: 5,417 Arc User
    If you get the quest before you are of the appropriate level, you aren't tasked with Ghost Stories. That is the only change. I don't know where you got the idea that it used to act that way but it didn't. Not in Mod 4 when it came out or any point after that.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • tribbulater
    tribbulater Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    Well, the OP isn't actually about Ghost Stories, it's about whether 'Common Cause' can be completed without Ghost Stories by doing Grave Swapping and Tell No Tales. Especially by lower levels, which I asked if anyone could test since I don't currently have any.

    Regardless, I went into Neverdeath this morning to see if I could find some people to test it. A couple people confirmed that it was working 'oddly' on Friday and Sat, and probably Thursday... but as of this morning it seems to be back to working 'normally'. Will test further to see if it remains working 'normally' later this week.

    For now, everything back to normal, nothing to resolve.
  • kreatyve
    kreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    edited July 2019
    I believe it's completable without Ghost Stories until level 60. That USED to be the case. I don't know if they have changed that or not.

    Not closing the thread just yet, just in case there is some issue, maybe on certain days?
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  • tribbulater
    tribbulater Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    I believe it's completable without Ghost Stories until level 60. That USED to be the case. I don't know if they have changed that or not.

    Not closing the thread just yet, just in case there is some issue, maybe on certain days?

    I'm having a little difficulty self-testing this, because all my characters are level 80. So far I haven't found anyone who can help test that is below level 70.

    However, so far I have gotten report that for a level 72 and another level 80 who happened to get it (you get different versions of Common Cause depending on the day), on Friday and Saturday last week it was giving the version that gives:
    -Assist the Harpers in Neverdeath
    -Culling the Cultists
    -Ghost Stories
    -Grave Swapping

    Today, Monday, it is back to giving this limited/restricted version to the level 80 guy.

    Thus, no task for Dead Men Do Tell Tales, and that makes Ghost Stories a must for completion. Which isn't too bad for these guys, as at level 70+ they should be able to either solo it or only need one helper.

    For roughly the past 3 years, it has been giving the above list, plus Dead Men Tell Tales, which means people can complete that version of Common Cause without doing Ghost Stories simply by waiting an extra day or two to pick up the second zone task. On Sunday, it was definitely giving out that version of Common Cause-Neverdeath.

    Apparently it also makes a difference how far your character has advanced in the Tyranny campaign. I'm 2/3 complete, so I get a different Common Cause version each day (usually, Zone+Cultists+Today's Zone Task+Zone Lair). Other people say they have only gotten one or two Tyranny tasks done, and so they get Common Cause- Neverdeath every time, because they've never advanced beyond it.

    Anyways, it's not a big issue, as said in the OP I was just wondering if any lower levels could test how it was working for them. Maybe I'll get around to doing it myself, but I'm sort of on strike with new characters because I still feel ripped off by the Neverember Recruit rewards ending early.


  • tribbulater
    tribbulater Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    Dug through my characters yesterday, found one who, although level 80, hadn't advanced far in Tyranny campaign. So he can pick up the Common Cause - Neverdeath version.

    Confirmed what the other level 80 found, that yesterday, Common Cause - Neverdeath offered only Grave Swapping/Cultists/Ghost Stories.

    Today, on that same level 80 char, same quest (I haven't dropped or abandoned it), it offers Cultists/Grave Swapping/Tell No Tales/Ghost Stories.

    So the quest is actually auto-changing between different versions, on different days.
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,451 Arc User
    That isn't uncommon. Advance further in Tyranny and it will add in the other zones as you go.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.