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DPS DC feels very weak - always out of divinity - change divinity costs or buff damage

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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited July 2019

    HR in terms of aoe maybe, in focus damage that class drops of a bit from my experience, but if anyone wants to know how to play Arbiter I recommend to ask her, awesome dps.

    maybe we just don't have great trs and wizzies on console for the most part (there are some but few and far between from what I've witnessed), but most of the lomms I've been in are dominated by hrs. we have no problem against bosses or mobs. and a fair amount of the time I don't end up with top damage I do end up with top damage taken and can confirm I was the one holding aggro thru the match so wasn't able to position correctly. (and I don't do things to steal aggro on purpose.. tanks just can't seem to hold aggro a lot of the time. hard to find good tanks. )


    I'm sure there are strong dps dcs out there. I've seen screenshots. but I haven't played with one. My dc feels weak to me, but he's not built anywhere near as well as my hr or wiz. (i.e there is reason for him to feel weak) that said, I didn't bother with him because I don't like the class mechs of the dps dc. it's complex but not in a good way.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Also people should stop clinging to the idea that since they've been playing a long time, that their current knowledge about the game/class is the best one, but have not thoroughly tested the changes made with feats encounters dailys at wills companions artifacts and mount powers.

    for sure, I think this mod has seen the lowest amount of theory testing build posting of any mod in history of this game. I think there is probablya lot of damage left on the table for all classes because of this
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    > freya [email protected] a good friend of mine.
    > I often am top dps when I actually play it on my Cleric, but I am a really good healer so I mostly play DC.
    > you can also check out my guide on mmominds https://nw.mmominds.com/2019/04/30/parwen/

    If freya is your good friend, do you not run with him that much? He plays really well and you can ask him his rotation and stuff and see what he is doing, against what you are doing, and find out how to better refine on how to do damage as an arbiter?
  • tgwolftgwolf Member Posts: 468 Arc User
    I've topped the Paingiver charts in every dungeon that I've run Arbiter in.

    Divine Glow - Feated
    Break the Spirit
    Searing Javelin (For mobs)/Forgemasters Flame (For ST/Bosses)

    You can replace DG for Prophesy of Doom for bosses if your luck or Judgement management is good.

    - When repositioning that doesn't require dodging, do so while Praying.
    - If you use SJ or FF 3 times in a row because of Piercing Javelin proc. or good RNG then use Conflagrate x2 > Pray > Conflagrate > Pray. This will restore your Divinity.
    - When using SJ, dash backwards then use it, especially if Aggro'd. This causes enemies to line up for a moment.
    - Full Judgement stacks is Optimal but don't only cast then, Piercing Javelin proc. should be immediately followed by a cast of SJ regardless. If you can DG for full Judgement then do it first but do it regardless.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    onlymat said:


    not sure if I miss something here (xbox player) but 45 Million Damage in a lomm run? Seems not very high - in what time was it done? was ist a 30 minute run? a 25 minute run? and how much Damage did the other classes like CW or HR?

    Cleric did as much as my Arcanist build.

    So, no, it didn't beat my Thaum build and I don't believe it could, but to actually beat my Arcanist build is a skill since I play extremely aggressively with Arcanist with constant spell changing and strategy manipulating for each type of the enemy. With my Arcanist build I'm on-par with some other Thaum builds on the srvr.

    From my perspective, a good DPS.

    On a scale from 1 to 10, a solid 7. High tiered Thaums would be 9. Regular Thaums would be 6-7, my Arcanist is 6. SWs would outperform a bit, but it is a close battle imho. Barbies would be 4. TRs anything between 4 and 9. HR would be 7-8.

    Playing alongside with this DC felt like playing with a trapper HR from previous mods. You just don't get the chance to kill things and it feels like a new year cause of all Cleric effects around. Fancy.

    The diff was around 8 mil if I remember correctly, but don't hold me on that. IMHO, amazing.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User

    onlymat said:


    not sure if I miss something here (xbox player) but 45 Million Damage in a lomm run? Seems not very high - in what time was it done? was ist a 30 minute run? a 25 minute run? and how much Damage did the other classes like CW or HR?

    Cleric did as much as my Arcanist build.

    So, no, it didn't beat my Thaum build and I don't believe it could, but to actually beat my Arcanist build is a skill since I play extremely aggressively with Arcanist with constant spell changing and strategy manipulating for each type of the enemy. With my Arcanist build I'm on-par with some other Thaum builds on the srvr.

    From my perspective, a good DPS.

    On a scale from 1 to 10, a solid 7. High tiered Thaums would be 9. Regular Thaums would be 6-7, my Arcanist is 6. SWs would outperform a bit, but it is a close battle imho. Barbies would be 4. TRs anything between 4 and 9. HR would be 7-8.

    Playing alongside with this DC felt like playing with a trapper HR from previous mods. You just don't get the chance to kill things and it feels like a new year cause of all Cleric effects around. Fancy.

    The diff was around 8 mil if I remember correctly, but don't hold me on that. IMHO, amazing.
    ahm Arcanist build..... you know its bugged? And you know that Thaum is the way to go?
    To outdps an Arcanist is...... well easy!
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    I only can share some data from a random run with Arbiter vs lock and a TR if you are interested.
    Bottom line Arbiter could need some more focus damge and warlock some more aoe abilities.
    TR and CW are ahead all classes, Hunter is in a similar position like Arbiter imo, lacks in focus damage a bit and has very good aoe.
    But in the end nothing like this will take place in an acceptable ammount of time, so it´s on you to accept actual state of classes. This game will never reach an acceptable balance for classes or path, it never did imo.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    onlymat said:


    ahm Arcanist build..... you know its bugged? And you know that Thaum is the way to go?
    To outdps an Arcanist is...... well easy!

    You're taking it out of the context after asking a question and then proceed to question my ability to play this game because I deliberately chose a weaker option in a Wizard build for the sake of messing with people like you who can't grasp a simple fact that not everything is about paingiver chart nor dps.

    Make of that what you will. I'm staying with the fact that beating my Arcanist build is not at all easy. So Kudos to the Cleric who did it.

    Next time when you say that something is bugged, look at the chart for Rimefire Smolder and see just how much damage it does overall.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • drakostar83drakostar83 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    have seen a arcanist build tht makes a lot of damage. DPS of a Cleric is not bad i thought but nothing compared to HR, TR or CW´s at the same skill
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    My main issue with the Arbiter DPS is with trash clearing, and short, easy fights in general. The Arbiter does not have the time to build up the pips to use an encounter at full power, while some other classes may enter the fight with a hard-hitting encounter off cooldown. By the time the Arbiter has built up 6 pips, the group may be dead.

    Being able to get the same DPS in boss fights as a Ranger or Rogue (but not a wizard - they are 15% above the rest). does not make up for the inferior performance when cleaning trash, so overall, Clerics will underperform by a bit, yes.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    My main issue with the Arbiter DPS is with trash clearing, and short, easy fights in general. The Arbiter does not have the time to build up the pips to use an encounter at full power, while some other classes may enter the fight with a hard-hitting encounter off cooldown. By the time the Arbiter has built up 6 pips, the group may be dead.

    Being able to get the same DPS in boss fights as a Ranger or Rogue (but not a wizard - they are 15% above the rest). does not make up for the inferior performance when cleaning trash, so overall, Clerics will underperform by a bit, yes.

    I start off using Daunting Light and if it works out for me I get 6 pips and than I use searing javelin. It works about 50% of the time.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User


    I start off using Daunting Light and if it works out for me I get 6 pips and than I use searing javelin. It works about 50% of the time.

    It may work, yes, but then you miss out using DL for divinity management - that is, getting 6 pips to convert when you really need them. Still, I can see this approach work nicely in some circumstances.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User

    onlymat said:


    ahm Arcanist build..... you know its bugged? And you know that Thaum is the way to go?
    To outdps an Arcanist is...... well easy!

    I deliberately chose a weaker option in a Wizard build for the sake of messing with people like you who can't grasp a simple fact that not everything is about paingiver chart nor dps.

    .
    not everything is about paingiver chart? You want to proove that DPS of cleric is ok, because it beats a very weak wizard? Are you serious? Read the topic:

    "DC feels weak"

    And yes If I`m DPS I want to be able to top the DPS chart against other DPS classes! Thats why it´s an DPS. They removed the BUFFS and if you choose to play DPS now you should be able to be as good as all others if you have the skill too. With a cleric you can´t beat TOP DPS CW or TOP DPS HR! Its not possible!
    So if this is impossibel - why there is a DPS path of a cleric? It makes no sense - and what you tried to prove makes also no sense!
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    UPDATE: I invited @pariswinters#7118 to do a lomm since i saw him in a channel. we were 4 people in queue, then went REQ. After the first boss has died.. this guys rage quits.

    Here are some screenshots.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/488044419187212316/606329273069993985/SPOILER_parwen.png

    and

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/488044419187212316/606329257924231184/SPOILER_parwen_2.png

    The 2nd one is just there to justify that DCs can dps. 21k itemlevel, no legendary mount nor insignias, ~half boons are missing, but using proper gears that give +% damage bonus and capping the offensive stats(except CA cause its hard), even without orcus set(using tiamat set for the +heal since my arbiter is there for fun but mostly heals when cant find healers to run with).

    If the run was finished then we could have clearly seen how underperforming you were and with it comes room for improvement that we couldve discussed but well you ragequitted and got butthurt because the TANK DOES DAMAGE?

    Complain if the tank does damage and neglects tanking, but that one was doing his job as a tank and doing damage at the same time.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    I invited you to see first hand on how you do on dungeons. I had high hopes actually, that you'd do more damage than me, and then if you did then your statement of dps dc feels weak would be something that I can understand then.

    EXACTLY that tank had all the maxed out enchants, watcher set and gear. Why is it suprising that he can deal damage too?

    If by the end of the dungeon the tank outdpsed me, then your argument that dps dcs are weak would be valid, but he isnt outdpsing me. He does a lot of damage, and that speeds things up and I see no problem with it.



    the tank had watcher set and all r15 enchants, 180k+ power. and i feel like you just invited me to upset me. we get past arcturia and the tank is still #2 in dps? yea I left. to me that's not fun. what's the point of dps even? apparently i "HAVE" to have a vorpal enchantment or i might as well just run healer.

  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    This is getting a bit too personal, and not really relevant to class-specific issues....
    Hoping for improvements...
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    > @adinosii said:
    > This is getting a bit too personal, and not really relevant to class-specific issues....

    But it is. There were 2 arbiters on that run. One feels that dps dc does not feel weak, while the other does. One dc is fine with the tank being able to do damage, while the other is not.

    If one arbiter can outdps the tank that outdpses the other arbiter, then does this not clear things up about the misconception of dps dc feels weak that its not a problem with the class, but more on how the class is played and utilized and that it is possible to perform much better than how it currently is?

    I am concerned that since posts like this always pop up in the forums, that mostly new players, and people who dont really take the time to try stuff themselves and just relies on guides and whatever statements made by youtubers or twitch or whichever, are really, really misguided and in no way helps the community aside from being toxic and negative about the game.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    > @pariswinters#7118 said:
    > i don't take kindly to people testing me. you were rude for not saying that in the first place. I had bronzewood enchantment on and about 25k less power then i would have had if I was in a knowing dps race. I find something very wrong when the person queued as "TANK" is doing more damage then someone queued as "DPS" let alone 2 people.

    Was there ever any mention of a dps race? Did someone in the queue group or the random queuer say something to you about the run being a dps race?

    As far as we(the people who queued REQ as a group and the random person we got as a fifth) know, you typed words after the first boss, then left the queue.

    And people complain about people leaving random queues.

    I didnt plan to like record a run and post it afterwards, i wanted to see how come you felt like dps dc was weak when you showed a screenshot of doing it as top dps in 30 mins and maybe offer some advice at the end of the dungeon, but we never made it that far, with you rage quitting after the first boss.

    You were the one overly concerned about the paingiver chart and decided to rage quit.

    Like my earlier posts way back before we even ran, i stand by my statement that DPS Clerics can hold their own and do much more under the DPS paragon.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,343 Arc User
    Like I have stated before, and/or in other threads. Arbiter Cleric has a higher skill curve than other classes, but it's got the potential for some really nice dps.
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