Mod 16 - No Group Synergy = Less Engaging Game

mebengalsfan

What makes a MMO fun and engaging with a group is the synergy between classes and roles when in a group. NWO has reduced group synergy which has made combat more tedious and boring. Prior mods with going with 4 support and 1 dps was all do to group synergy; now without having much of any group synergy we are left with combat becoming plain and boring.

I rather have 1 true DPS with a buffing healer, buffing tank and 2 buffing DPS that made group synergy so much fun in prior mods that it made combat fun and engaging. Significant reduction in how group abilities interact has made the game combat less engaging and more repetitive without much of reason to even consider using any ability or feat that would result in group synergy. Those feats and abilities that are designed to provide some form of group synergy are not worth using as it would hinder the damage dealer true nature of being a damage dealer or it takes a major needed healing spell from the healer.

With having only 3 encounters to select I hope the devs consider modifying the encounters a bit in mod 17 to improve them so that the game provides more group synergy than what is available in mod 16.

darthpotater

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

What makes a MMO fun and engaging with a group is the synergy between classes and roles when in a group. NWO has reduced group synergy which has made combat more tedious and boring. Prior mods with going with 4 support and 1 dps was all do to group synergy; now without having much of any group synergy we are left with combat becoming plain and boring.

I rather have 1 true DPS with a buffing healer, buffing tank and 2 buffing DPS that made group synergy so much fun in prior mods that it made combat fun and engaging. Significant reduction in how group abilities interact has made the game combat less engaging and more repetitive without much of reason to even consider using any ability or feat that would result in group synergy. Those feats and abilities that are designed to provide some form of group synergy are not worth using as it would hinder the damage dealer true nature of being a damage dealer or it takes a major needed healing spell from the healer.

With having only 3 encounters to select I hope the devs consider modifying the encounters a bit in mod 17 to improve them so that the game provides more group synergy than what is available in mod 16.

You define group sinergy as "I have something in my build that impact others" AKA buffing. Buffs were out of hand, I think we all agree here, so buffs had to be reduced to minimum.

Other players may define group sinergy as some teamplay, tank being tank, healer being healer, and dps doing their stuff.

You say that mod 16 is repetitive but mod 15 was the same "buff buff buff, the DPS uses his rotation, Boss dead in 6 secs" That was also repetitive and for me that was not fun.

I understand that some people would have fun melting mobs and bosses in seconds but I think that when you have to learn and use mechanics in boss fights other than Buff + DPs is much more fun for everyone. In mod 15 most people bypassed the mechanics just with Buffs to dmg and dmg reduction.

I dont know about you but when I started playing this game in the Beta, the game was much more like mod 16 than mod 15. And I loved that and boss mechanics that made every dungeon unique.

mebengalsfan

darthpotater said:

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

What makes a MMO fun and engaging with a group is the synergy between classes and roles when in a group. NWO has reduced group synergy which has made combat more tedious and boring. Prior mods with going with 4 support and 1 dps was all do to group synergy; now without having much of any group synergy we are left with combat becoming plain and boring.

I rather have 1 true DPS with a buffing healer, buffing tank and 2 buffing DPS that made group synergy so much fun in prior mods that it made combat fun and engaging. Significant reduction in how group abilities interact has made the game combat less engaging and more repetitive without much of reason to even consider using any ability or feat that would result in group synergy. Those feats and abilities that are designed to provide some form of group synergy are not worth using as it would hinder the damage dealer true nature of being a damage dealer or it takes a major needed healing spell from the healer.

With having only 3 encounters to select I hope the devs consider modifying the encounters a bit in mod 17 to improve them so that the game provides more group synergy than what is available in mod 16.

You define group sinergy as "I have something in my build that impact others" AKA buffing. Buffs were out of hand, I think we all agree here, so buffs had to be reduced to minimum.

Other players may define group sinergy as some teamplay, tank being tank, healer being healer, and dps doing their stuff.

You say that mod 16 is repetitive but mod 15 was the same "buff buff buff, the DPS uses his rotation, Boss dead in 6 secs" That was also repetitive and for me that was not fun.

I understand that some people would have fun melting mobs and bosses in seconds but I think that when you have to learn and use mechanics in boss fights other than Buff + DPs is much more fun for everyone. In mod 15 most people bypassed the mechanics just with Buffs to dmg and dmg reduction.

I dont know about you but when I started playing this game in the Beta, the game was much more like mod 16 than mod 15. And I loved that and boss mechanics that made every dungeon unique.

I have no problem with mechanics or using them. I have no issues with combat taking longer. I have no complaints that healers are needed, though tanks now can be forgotten and another DPS can be brought in for most content to simply melt content faster.

What I'm talking about is how powers interact with each other. For instance a Wizard add chill to a target and after the target reaches 5 stacks another damage dealing class (Ranger, Rogue, Barbarian, Fighter, Warlock, or Cleric) are able to use a specific encounter or at will that will shatter the target. This results in AoE damage and spreading the chill effect to other targets or it could increase the damage of the ability used by say 25%.

Other games have it where classes can work together to form synergy and produce more damage, not over the top damage but more. Once the extra damage is produced you would have to reapply chill for instance to have it work again. This type of synergy would allow groups to bring in player who may focus on setting up the high damaging hits so that the other two damage dealers can produce more damage. The 3rd damage dealer would still be producing decent damage but he or she would be helping the other two produce more. Or all players could run an ability to setup others and than the others would get bonus damage.

Another method I seen is where you have Class A provide XY, Class B provides YZ, and Class C provie ZA types of effects. Other classes would not be able to provide the effect but they have abilities that gain bonus damage when a specific effect is in place. This way classes could apply an effect which could be part of the build but another class would get the bonus damage from the effect.

We had synergy in the prior mod all do to how buffs and debuffs worked; yeah it was overboard and something had to be done. Mod 16 stripped that down and we are basically now playing generic tank, generic healer with 3 generic cookie cutter damage dealers. This makes the combat of the game boring and tedious. The synergy that this group has is as basic and boring as it gets.

adinosii

You are absolutely correct. Class synergy is gone. However, I think this is an intentional design decision. I suspect this is a part of making the game more appealing to a younger, less experienced and less patient audience.

All the simplification, all the free "good enough" gear that is handed out, it all points in the same direction - "just jump in, and you will be ready for end-game in a week. Ah, you are not powerful enough...well, just spend a bit of money".

There is little need for communication in groups any more. There is no need to synchronize buffs or anything...every player just does his/her thing in his/her corner. There are a few exceptions, like during the first boss in LoMM, but that's it.

So is this bad? It makes the game less appealing to some, but more attractive to others. ...I'm not sure what the final result will be, though.

vorphied

I see other games I play also moving away from class synergy because it contributes to increasingly damaging balance problems, and I generally agree. If X class has a special interaction that benefits Y class and/or vice versa, Z class is often left out of the meta as a result.

Role synergy is a safer way to go, and while some already exists (e.g. really obvious things, like a tank's threat control increasing team safety and promoting consistent CA), there may be opportunity to expand on this.

arazith07

There still are some powers that benefit others in the group, like an Arbiter's BtS increasing magical and ranged damage by 10% for 10 seconds (50% up time). But they are limited and only affect some. Taking the above power, you can bring 2 Arbiters and a Wizard and have 100% uptime on bts with coordination, supporting the Wizard's damage on the boss, helping the Paladin deal damage and holding aggro, etc. Synergy exists, it's just been cut back tremendously so we don't have what happened in M15 where mechanics are completely ignored.

Unknown

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mebengalsfan

vorphied said:

I see other games I play also moving away from class synergy because it contributes to increasingly damaging balance problems, and I generally agree. If X class has a special interaction that benefits Y class and/or vice versa, Z class is often left out of the meta as a result.

Role synergy is a safer way to go, and while some already exists (e.g. really obvious things, like a tank's threat control increasing team safety and promoting consistent CA), there may be opportunity to expand on this.

This game has potential and unfortunately we have Cryptic managing it. I'm not alone when I felt that this mod was going to be great than it landed on pre-view and eventually was deployed to PC. When it landed on preview what was delivered IMO was more inline with what you would expect for developer testing region for coding changes - typically a region where the test can make changes and run them to see the out come. That is what pre-view got. When it landed on PC they got not player ready content but content designed for QA team to review. Again, not a product ready for its consumers but still going through the various stages of testing, updating, etc... The product that landed on consoles again is not ready 100% for consumers; it is more in line with alpha play testing. What we have now is an alpha player product. This product should be tweaked to fix all known bugs and than that should be what lands on preview with a few minor bugs being fixed. Alpha could have helped create some type of synergy like CA or other types.

My gut tells me mod 16 release was on their calendar deploy if it is ready or not, PERIOD. That is how it felt and the cost of doing that decision without listening to feedback has cost them players and revenue. Why did PC players get the free dev pack because mod 16 that launched was not consumer ready product and PC players deserved that award given how crappy mod 16 was on launch day.

Console still have to deal with some of the issue because the devs have no idea on to properly debug their code and resolve ongoing issues. I mean the Tamed Raptor and many other companions not working as intended. Feats not working after the full revamp, etc... these are items that would show up during Alpha testing that could be ironed out by the time the game hit production.

With all of that said, as much as I would like to see more synergy I think that is beyond the capabilities of the small team or maybe the application itself cannot handle such coding. Either way I think mod 17 will give us less than more and that means further reduction in any complexity.

croixx

I told them when I was playing on preview before launch, the same thing. Ok, they switched up new gear and lvl cap to 80....ok good something to work for. They changed companions and how they work, sweet. The added content was ok and interesting with ok dialog. All those I expected and didn't really bother me, even the bugs that naturally go with it.

Scaling I really don't need to say anything about that because its been fubar from the start with mod 16. Not sure what its like now, but im sure its better. Now the to the meat and potatoes of the issue that really turned me off from the game entirely......the group buffing and synergy. I know and everyone else that has played this game before mod 16 knows that group buffing was out of control. They needed to do something with it for sure, however, to take it out entirely with a complete rework of abilities with slow cool downs sealed the deal. Again, i don't know what its like now as I won't play the game again till i see what im looking for. NO GROUP COORDINATION whatsoever is the end of it till it changes for me. Its an MMO and we are supposed to work together in different ways to overcome challenges as a whole. What it is now is something i continue to monitor on the forums and elsewhere. The group endgame is what made the game fun, guild raids, pug groups, it didn't matter to me as i had fun win or lose. No thinking and using at wills with occasional ability use pissed me off to no end. Well there you have it. its not about loot, ad, gold, best gear......its the game mechanics within endgame groups. just my own opinion take it for what it is.

kangkeok

I certainly don't want to go back to mod 15 where boss die in seconds or classes being left out of meta or mechanics being bypassed by buffs. Mod 16 fix alot of that and i felt its fun again playing in dungeon when people respect the game mechanic again.

However I do agree that cryptic isn't doing the best job when reworking the classes. There are some class that are fun to play while there are classes which has been turn blatant, boring and completely misunderstood. That is why I completely disagree with the dev decision to have different person in charge of different classes. I mean the person who has the ability to understand a class are going to make the class they incharge fun while the person who misunderstood the class are going to make it horrible and end up with decision that makes no sense. Its better to have all of them sit together and go through each class. Only when all changes are finalize and times for executing the changes and bug fix, they should be given charge of each class. Atm the whole class balance feels awkward to me.

Unknown

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tom

kangkeok said:

I certainly don't want to go back to mod 15 where boss die in seconds or classes being left out of meta or mechanics being bypassed by buffs. Mod 16 fix alot of that and i felt its fun again playing in dungeon when people respect the game mechanic again.

I cant speak for other ppl, but for me the Dungeons are as easy if not easier then in mod 15. Just ran Tong and it was totally lame, the enemys deal so low dmg that its harder to die then to stay alife. And bosses still die, not in seconds, but still very fast.

In Lomm this is even more noticable, if u run it with a rather good group, the phases of the 2cnd boss are so short, not even all dps players are able to finish their 3 encounters and he is alrdy immune again.

If they wanted to increase difficulty they have failed big time. The only mildly "difficult" Dungeon is CR cause its buggy AF.

kangkeok

tom#6998 said:

kangkeok said:

I certainly don't want to go back to mod 15 where boss die in seconds or classes being left out of meta or mechanics being bypassed by buffs. Mod 16 fix alot of that and i felt its fun again playing in dungeon when people respect the game mechanic again.

I cant speak for other ppl, but for me the Dungeons are as easy if not easier then in mod 15. Just ran Tong and it was totally lame, the enemys deal so low dmg that its harder to die then to stay alife. And bosses still die, not in seconds, but still very fast.

In Lomm this is even more noticable, if u run it with a rather good group, the phases of the 2cnd boss are so short, not even all dps players are able to finish their 3 encounters and he is alrdy immune again.

If they wanted to increase difficulty they have failed big time. The only mildly "difficult" Dungeon is CR cause its buggy AF.

Well it really depends on group and ilvl. I usually run in PUG so that's where my feedback came from. Compare to mod 15 when everything is a faceroll with DC around, mod 16 is pretty much a challenge especially dungeon like lostmauth and malabog. What I mean isn't about the mob is too hard to kill but Its more about u need to respect those red zone like lava pit and lightning breath. In short the mechanic is back in play again. But if its about power creep that's a different story to talk about.

Anyway, if playing with good group is too easy for u, u can always join a PUG. Its always a challenge playing with subpar group compare to premade group.

darthpotater

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

I have no problem with mechanics or using them. I have no issues with combat taking longer. I have no complaints that healers are needed, though tanks now can be forgotten and another DPS can be brought in for most content to simply melt content faster.

What I'm talking about is how powers interact with each other. For instance a Wizard add chill to a target and after the target reaches 5 stacks another damage dealing class (Ranger, Rogue, Barbarian, Fighter, Warlock, or Cleric) are able to use a specific encounter or at will that will shatter the target. This results in AoE damage and spreading the chill effect to other targets or it could increase the damage of the ability used by say 25%.

Other games have it where classes can work together to form synergy and produce more damage, not over the top damage but more. Once the extra damage is produced you would have to reapply chill for instance to have it work again. This type of synergy would allow groups to bring in player who may focus on setting up the high damaging hits so that the other two damage dealers can produce more damage. The 3rd damage dealer would still be producing decent damage but he or she would be helping the other two produce more. Or all players could run an ability to setup others and than the others would get bonus damage.

....

We had synergy in the prior mod all do to how buffs and debuffs worked; yeah it was overboard and something had to be done. Mod 16 stripped that down and we are basically now playing generic tank, generic healer with 3 generic cookie cutter damage dealers. This makes the combat of the game boring and tedious. The synergy that this group has is as basic and boring as it gets.

I can agree with you that more complex mechanics and synergy between classes could be good but is easy to fail doing this because it can be too complex to most players, so making the distance bigger between good and bad players, and is easy to make some classes undesired because they have worse synergies.

This is totally different than we had in mod 15. Buffs were not synergy were a total disaster, and more, they were neccesary to complete most dungeons, so we were obligated to use them and we had no choice about how to play our class.

Also, I understand that mod 16 is the base of a "new game", I spect that they will add more mechanics to the game in future modules. The problem is that people want everything, and fast.

For example with this new "simple" system, they could add with time a 3rd paragon for each class, that would be impossible in the old system, but now I think is viable. Or a new class.

I still have hope, because the game now is much more healthy than mod 15, and every class is viable (still need tweaks ofc). Maybe some people dont like it, I understand that but the game is much more in line whith mod 0-1-2 that where the gold age of Neverwinter.

wilbur626

> @darthpotater said:
> For example with this new "simple" system, they could add with time a 3rd paragon for each class, that would be impossible in the old system, but now I think is viable. Or a new class.
>

Specializations and/or multi-classing, let's go!

adinosii

On second though - too much emphasis on class synergy is probably a "bad thing".

This is because if players find that for maximum efficiancy you need class A doing X, class B doing Y and 3 people from class C doing Z, then those will be the only classes that are wanted...players of classes D, E, F, G and H need not apply.

As it is right now....all the tanking classes can tank, all the healing classes can heal and all the DPS classes can deliver DPS.

Sure, things are not perfect - Warlocks have a problem healing in a specific fight where they have to avoid doing damage, and Clerics might only do 75% of the DPS of a Wizard, but there is room for everyone, so to speak.

mebengalsfan

adinosii said:

On second though - too much emphasis on class synergy is probably a "bad thing".

This is because if players find that for maximum efficiancy you need class A doing X, class B doing Y and 3 people from class C doing Z, then those will be the only classes that are wanted...players of classes D, E, F, G and H need not apply.

As it is right now....all the tanking classes can tank, all the healing classes can heal and all the DPS classes can deliver DPS.

Sure, things are not perfect - Warlocks have a problem healing in a specific fight where they have to avoid doing damage, and Clerics might only do 75% of the DPS of a Wizard, but there is room for everyone, so to speak.

Class synergy does exist as someone pointed out. For example RoE when on Mastery provide damage bonus for magical based attack this would include Warlock, Cleric, Wizard; clerics also have the same feature on an encounter. Using these two classes together you can stack buffs and than land a bigger hit with a daily if properly timed. This isn't like mods of old but it still there.

I don't think that type of synergy is good as it encourages only magical based damage dealers to be in a group. The synergy I am talking about is based on a control effect or a simple buff.

I am willing to even go as far and state that all buffs should be removed from all current roles, period. This would allow the devs to create a Buffer role where that role responsibilities is around providing group buffs. The buffer will be like a 3rd damage dealer but does around 75% of standard damage dealer.

Using a wizard as an example we have Arcanist and Thaum as the paragon path. I would like to see one of these builds go full on buffer/debuffer. With this build providing the group a 10-15% damage buff (to all not just magic based attacks), and providing 2-3 debuffs such a damage reduction, defense reduction, etc...

I would make sure that the game has just as many buffers as it does tank and healers.

mebengalsfan

kangkeok said:

tom#6998 said:

kangkeok said:

I certainly don't want to go back to mod 15 where boss die in seconds or classes being left out of meta or mechanics being bypassed by buffs. Mod 16 fix alot of that and i felt its fun again playing in dungeon when people respect the game mechanic again.

I cant speak for other ppl, but for me the Dungeons are as easy if not easier then in mod 15. Just ran Tong and it was totally lame, the enemys deal so low dmg that its harder to die then to stay alife. And bosses still die, not in seconds, but still very fast.

In Lomm this is even more noticable, if u run it with a rather good group, the phases of the 2cnd boss are so short, not even all dps players are able to finish their 3 encounters and he is alrdy immune again.

If they wanted to increase difficulty they have failed big time. The only mildly "difficult" Dungeon is CR cause its buggy AF.

Well it really depends on group and ilvl. I usually run in PUG so that's where my feedback came from. Compare to mod 15 when everything is a faceroll with DC around, mod 16 is pretty much a challenge especially dungeon like lostmauth and malabog. What I mean isn't about the mob is too hard to kill but Its more about u need to respect those red zone like lava pit and lightning breath. In short the mechanic is back in play again. But if its about power creep that's a different story to talk about.

Anyway, if playing with good group is too easy for u, u can always join a PUG. Its always a challenge playing with subpar group compare to premade group.

I ran some 100% pug groups. I got into eToS for my intermediate q. I ended as a wizard with most healing out. Yup; the healer was that bad; he had half o my healing out as a healer. Damage in; I had the most damage in on my wizard, 3x of that as the tank. Looking at the threat bar; I had threat the whole run; tank could not hold threat. The synergy is a tank hold threat, the healer heals and the damage dealers do damage. That is a standard group synergy for a very BASIC mmo. Mod 16 seems to have removed that as many players are not able to do their role well enough in dungeons, random dungeons and that makes content harder than it needs to be.

As a wizard with a Thaum build I do provide some damage synergy with control momentum and Swath of Destruction. On bosses if I run my Thaum build I also use Ray of Enfeeblement for another damage buff.

From what I saw with my fighter I can buff the melee based damage dealer but not the magical ones. Making a Fighter preferred for non-magical damage dealers as a tank. If you run with a Fighter tank don't run with any magical based characters as the buffs are melee focused. Again this is a type of synergy but not all classes get the buff. This makes Warlock, Wizard and Clerics less effective when they run with a Fighter tank.

The buffs in mod 16 are more focused on the type of damage than just damage in general. I believe this was done on purpose to form specific group make up. The thing is though, if that is the case and players learn the group makeup that can speed run through content do to group synergy than a new meta will form and leave all other classes outside looking in like prior mods. It is only a matter of time before this happens.

Unknown

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currentdragoon

I ran some 100% pug groups. I got into eToS for my intermediate q. I ended as a wizard with most healing out. Yup; the healer was that bad; he had half o my healing out as a healer. Damage in; I had the most damage in on my wizard, 3x of that as the tank. Looking at the threat bar; I had threat the whole run; tank could not hold threat. The synergy is a tank hold threat, the healer heals and the damage dealers do damage. That is a standard group synergy for a very BASIC mmo. Mod 16 seems to have removed that as many players are not able to do their role well enough in dungeons, random dungeons and that makes content harder than it needs to be.

As a wizard with a Thaum build I do provide some damage synergy with control momentum and Swath of Destruction. On bosses if I run my Thaum build I also use Ray of Enfeeblement for another damage buff.

From what I saw with my fighter I can buff the melee based damage dealer but not the magical ones. Making a Fighter preferred for non-magical damage dealers as a tank. If you run with a Fighter tank don't run with any magical based characters as the buffs are melee focused. Again this is a type of synergy but not all classes get the buff. This makes Warlock, Wizard and Clerics less effective when they run with a Fighter tank.

The buffs in mod 16 are more focused on the type of damage than just damage in general. I believe this was done on purpose to form specific group make up. The thing is though, if that is the case and players learn the group makeup that can speed run through content do to group synergy than a new meta will form and leave all other classes outside looking in like prior mods. It is only a matter of time before this happens.



I agree with you. Players right now do not know how to play the new roles. I am on console and I did the Many Coins Bank Heist the other night with my paladin and did not receive a single heal. Everyone ended up abandoning. Pre-mod 16, I was able to in let's say Castle Never, in the final boss fight against Orcus, I would park my pally in front of him and hold his attention the entire fight. With all the new changes, don't think that's possible until players figure out the mechanics of their respective toons.

tassedethe13

MOD 16 Synergy:

Boss pop, dps pop their artefacts, 5 lengendary mounts summoned ( T-Rex, bats ...), then 5 seconds window dps.
Repeat 1 min after

mebengalsfan

Been playing for a month now and here are my thoughts on the game with regards to buffs, debuffs, etc... and game play.

I miss buffing greatly. I miss knowing that a well time AA, use of an artifact, ITF, etc... all allowed my group to kill enemies quicker. With proper group communication and timing from buffs a group could one phase almost all bosses in the game but it required communication.

Now, why even communicate. The only thing you need to do is be close enough to the healer to ensure you get heals. Outside of that buffs are very limited to the point it doesn't matter if you debuff an enemy or buff the group up because both do very little to the overall effective of the team. In fact, its better as a tank or healer to do more damage than buff the group.

I also noticed that the groups I use to run with we use to communicate openly to ensure we max our buffs, now, no communicating. Even during our first LoMM dungeon communication was limited.

As for mechanics, players ignore them still all do to well being able to stack everyone near the healer and heal through any damage we receive.

Time to complete a boss for combat is about the same not because enemies health have been greatly reduced. Outside of that, combat overall is rather dull, boring and way less engaging than in prior mods. In prior mods if I timed things just right, do to buffs, I could land a multi million damage hit now even with all the right timing the difference in damage is minimal and well not worth trying to time it.

This game needs a buff role added to it. It would help bring about more group synergy; I would also work towards ensuring that only one group buffer can be in the group as adding another would simply override the other buffer buffs, making the group be 1 Tank, 1 healer, 1 buffer, and 2 DPS.

mebengalsfan

croixx said:

I told them when I was playing on preview before launch, the same thing. Ok, they switched up new gear and lvl cap to 80....ok good something to work for. They changed companions and how they work, sweet. The added content was ok and interesting with ok dialog. All those I expected and didn't really bother me, even the bugs that naturally go with it.

Scaling I really don't need to say anything about that because its been fubar from the start with mod 16. Not sure what its like now, but im sure its better. Now the to the meat and potatoes of the issue that really turned me off from the game entirely......the group buffing and synergy. I know and everyone else that has played this game before mod 16 knows that group buffing was out of control. They needed to do something with it for sure, however, to take it out entirely with a complete rework of abilities with slow cool downs sealed the deal. Again, i don't know what its like now as I won't play the game again till i see what im looking for. NO GROUP COORDINATION whatsoever is the end of it till it changes for me. Its an MMO and we are supposed to work together in different ways to overcome challenges as a whole. What it is now is something i continue to monitor on the forums and elsewhere. The group endgame is what made the game fun, guild raids, pug groups, it didn't matter to me as i had fun win or lose. No thinking and using at wills with occasional ability use pissed me off to no end. Well there you have it. its not about loot, ad, gold, best gear......its the game mechanics within endgame groups. just my own opinion take it for what it is.

If the devs knew the older code a simple solution would have been placing hard caps on the amount of power shared, damage buffs, debuffs, etc... Instead we got mod 16 which feels like an alpha even in its current state.

cherryman1

hitchslapped said:

there's still some degree of synergy in the game, but it's more role based, or artifact based, than the old system where it was power based. the main issue isn't that there's an absence of things that players can do to work together and be more effective, it's that a lot of players don't understand what those things *are*, or how to do them.

Most of the things that increase damage take away from some other part of the damage that happens in the game as well. This means that if the damage the other players get vs. what is taken away isn't greater your doing less damage overall anyway. Most of this you do more damage stuff in the game is right now a net loss in damage so why run it.

mongol69

Any warlock synergy would be great in any form.

Instead 2 warlocks cross consuming each other. If one uses 10%DMG feat and other consumes then instant damage reduction. If one is about to use hadars grasp and another uses curse consume, say bye to 35% damage potential from ri stacks. If one consumes curse then curse bite cant activate till next rotation. Whatever small dots warlocks have left in this mod, whenever a curse consumed and they applied by another warlock, curse damage halts. Running 2 warlocks is just a continuous breaking of each warlocks feats, powers, and passives.

The exact opposite of synergy. Would be nice if they had personal curse and shared ri stacks as wizards do with arcane and chill stacks.

But highly doubt devs would even consider fixing issues like that or even the existing broken feats, mechanics and powers that have been around since th e beginning considering thier silence on warlock threads since initial preview.

mebengalsfan

mongol69 said:

Any warlock synergy would be great in any form.



Instead 2 warlocks cross consuming each other. If one uses 10%DMG feat and other consumes then instant damage reduction. If one is about to use hadars grasp and another uses curse consume, say bye to 35% damage potential from ri stacks. If one consumes curse then curse bite cant activate till next rotation. Whatever small dots warlocks have left in this mod, whenever a curse consumed and they applied by another warlock, curse damage halts. Running 2 warlocks is just a continuous breaking of each warlocks feats, powers, and passives.



The exact opposite of synergy. Would be nice if they had personal curse and shared ri stacks as wizards do with arcane and chill stacks.



But highly doubt devs would even consider fixing issues like that or even the existing broken feats, mechanics and powers that have been around since th e beginning considering thier silence on warlock threads since initial preview.

Welcome to NWO where bugs are known and rarely fixed.

mongol69

It's just a shame they took the si stack gimmick from damnation and made it the warlock class biggest self buff mechanic.

With only 1 encounter and 1 daily to even summon a soul pupper, then the wait to actually get a stack on rotation after getting a soul puppet. Warlocks are lucky to even get more than 3 stacks in actual combat since adds die fast and boss fights have phases, stuns, etc. where you loose all stacks.

Add a 2nd warlock and you are pretty much guaranteed to never get past 1 stack.

cherryman1

darthpotater said:

I still have hope, because the game now is much more healthy than mod 15, and every class is viable (still need tweaks ofc). Maybe some people dont like it, I understand that but the game is much more in line whith mod 0-1-2 that where the gold age of Neverwinter.

Every class was viable in end game in mod 15, that is still true in mod 16 but only due to how easy the end game content is at this time. The issue was that some players didn't like the way they were made viable in mod 15 and didn't want to play that way.

With the changes to mod 17 bringing harder content expect a really mad player base for the classes that aren't balanced correctly. If they don't get class balance right I expect to see another large migration of the player base out of the game.

rev

tassedethe13 said:

MOD 16 Synergy:

Boss pop, dps pop their artefacts, 5 lengendary mounts summoned ( T-Rex, bats ...), then 5 seconds window dps.
Repeat 1 min after

LMAO isn't this the same HAMSTER as mod 15? the only difference is that the boss would die on the first rotation, well HAMSTER i still see some of them on 'scalled epic dungeons dying on the first rotation

rev

The stuff you are talking about isn't class synergy its abusing overpowered HAMSTER like we players always do.
When perma buble was a thing we abused it until they nerfed it...
Then it came the AA era once again we abused it and they nerfed it... (well it was still good after the nerf but they did it)
Then you could abuse having 2 buff clerics on the party and they nerfed it ...

In mod 15 it was powershare + 2 other classes you could find or had preference for and that takes me back to the begining: thats not synergy because you had to have a paladin and a cleric on your party (for end game content at least)

I think the only thing they should have done was remove powershare, nerf debuffs and buff certain classes a bit, but thats a whole different conversation

Unknown

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