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Another topic about a way to decrease the huge Zen Market queue

exgardianexgardian Member Posts: 253 Arc User
edited March 2019 in Player Feedback (PC)
Well, today (28/3/19), the Zen Market exchanger is 36 million and raising very fast.

My opinion about that, is that every new incoming module, people become insecure about what to come, what to change, and after that, what to do to keep your toon strong and playable.

So, the best way to prepare yourself for the incoming changes, is to stock as many resources you can (AD, refinement points and Zen). And actually, almost all players think the same thing: Buy Zen with Astral Diamonds. Along these last 2 years, this situation never changed.

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A good solution to incentive players to sell more Zen and slowly revert this situation, is to remove from Zen Store all useful and most used items by the players, and put all of then in Wondrous Bazaar in a new separate tab, (without the VIP 8~12 benefits).


Classic examples (no more or no less Astral Diamonds. It is the true value):

Coalescent Ward = 500k
3x Coalescent Wards pack = 1,35m (suggested new item)
10x Preservation Wards = 50k
90x Preservation Wards = 420k (suggested new item)
Runic Bag = 800k
Companion Upgrade Mini-Pack = 250k (Increase the Tokens to 25, up from 15)
Companion Helper Pack = 700k (Increase the Tokens to 60, up from 45, and change the Bonding Runestone Rank 7 to a Rank 10)
Epic Insignia Pack = 250k

Based on this topic, create a new box that give you a random transmutable item (armors, cloaks and weapons) called Legacy Treasures Box = 100k (suggested price)

All companions, services, VIP, mounts, packs, enchanted keys, and SH stuff remain in Zen Store normally.

Suggestion about VIP: Add a rank 13 VIP, avaliable only if you brought the 6-months VIP item. Only in the first 2 months after you buy the 6-month VIP, you get one extra enchanted keys per day, and 3 extra Reroll Reward token.

Suggestion about the Auction House: Put again to sell more legendary companions pack like Alphonse Knox, but also add more unique legendary companions with a fixed price (with BoA status, to prevent resseling).

If the idea is to get players to sell more Zen, you will need very strong incentives for it using all the features that the game offers.

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That's all. No more ideas ^^ Thank you for reading this.
Post edited by exgardian on
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Comments

  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,214 Arc User
    Cryptic doesn't make money from people spending AD. They only get money from people buying zen.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Cryptic doesn't make money from people spending AD. They only get money from people buying zen.

    I think his reason is to reduce the amount of player held AD buy moving the highly desired items off the zen market and putting them on an NPC where players spend the ad there which essentially removes or deletes the AD spent. Rather than allowing players to build ad wealth by spending Zen and selling Zen items to other players in exchange for AD.

    His solution would reduce the amount of player held AD.

    The effect it will have by reducing the over all pool of ad in the game means the value of zen will go back up. When zen is worth less than 500 Ad per 1 zen the exchange will start trading again and players will have an incentive to purchase Zen to trade for AD.

    Currently players go around the zen exchange. Instead they buy Zen packs and sell those items to players on the AH to make their ad because zen is worth more than 500 ad per 1 zen.

    Basically his premise is to shrink the over all pool of ad in the game by introducing a higher demanded sink. Cryptic has attempted to do this but they underestimate players desire. One of the major ways they attempted to do this was through the new mod 15 crafting system. It has failed. Players realize if they spend 5 million AD on the final upgrade to their work shop they got basically no value out of that 5 million ad. The workshop isnt worth spending AD on, your return on AD is practically nothing.

    They have attempted for years to use companion upgrading as a major ad sink but it too has failed. Its just SO expensive that players either never upgrade their companions, or they go another easier less expensive route. Ill try to explain what I mean.

    Its over a million AD to upgrade 1 companion to legendary. However; if you were to spend that same amount of AD on companion boxes, you can get upgrade tokens and other goodies which will net you, not just one upgrade but multiple companion upgrades. A player has more incentive to circumvent the AD sink and essentially make other players wealthy instead. No ad was destroyed in the making of this transaction. One player traded a way their ad to another player who held the companion box. So that ad is still in the game circulating around.

    Essentially every time Cryptic has tried to introduce an AD sink into the game they have failed because they either over do it like the workshop upgrade or they underestimate the players who will find an alternative solution that gets them the same result at a cheaper ad cost.

  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    How much does Cryptic lose in the meanwhile?

    Why should Cryptic be so concerned about the AD/Zen exchange that they decide it's more important than the business making money until they drain the vast AD reserves from so many players?


  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    If I am Cryptic, I don't really care about Zax backlog is huge. The longer the waiting, the higher the incentive people will pay cash to get Zen. Even if they buy stuff from Zen store and then resell in AH to get higher amount of AD, I still get my money.
    For my bottom line (as I am Cryptic), I just want people to spend money to buy Zen. I don't really want people to use AD to buy Zen although I allow it.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    If I am Cryptic, I don't really care about Zax backlog is huge. The longer the waiting, the higher the incentive people will pay cash to get Zen. Even if they buy stuff from Zen store and then resell in AH to get higher amount of AD, I still get my money.
    For my bottom line (as I am Cryptic), I just want people to spend money to buy Zen. I don't really want people to use AD to buy Zen although I allow it.

    It isn't just a one way street. Its from a players incentive. Why does a player buy zen? They want items or they want AD. The thing is, the zen items being sold on the AH carry with it a demand. IF the player doesn't want those items, those items don't get sold on the AH. However players generally want Zen, so a player who wants zen and are willing to trade a way their AD to a player selling zen then its a much more efficient means of obtaining either one. So you can't just look at it from Cryptics perspective. Sure they want the cash for the zen but you have to consider player incentive to buy zen in the first place.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    krumple01 said:

    If I am Cryptic, I don't really care about Zax backlog is huge. The longer the waiting, the higher the incentive people will pay cash to get Zen. Even if they buy stuff from Zen store and then resell in AH to get higher amount of AD, I still get my money.
    For my bottom line (as I am Cryptic), I just want people to spend money to buy Zen. I don't really want people to use AD to buy Zen although I allow it.

    It isn't just a one way street. Its from a players incentive. Why does a player buy zen? They want items or they want AD. The thing is, the zen items being sold on the AH carry with it a demand. IF the player doesn't want those items, those items don't get sold on the AH. However players generally want Zen, so a player who wants zen and are willing to trade a way their AD to a player selling zen then its a much more efficient means of obtaining either one. So you can't just look at it from Cryptics perspective. Sure they want the cash for the zen but you have to consider player incentive to buy zen in the first place.

    I would say those who pays dollar to buy Zen would want both the item and AD.
    So, they bought some for personal use and let some to sell.

    What is player's incentive to buy Zen?
    They want something that is only in Zen store which is not available in the game. For example, VIP, lockbox key, bank slot, ...
    There is something that is cheaper to buy from Zen store than from AH such as p-ward, c-ward.
    Does anyone really go to Zen store to buy RP packs? I hope not because AH is cheaper than Zen store.
    People looks for a better deal.

    How should player get Zen?
    There are two ways, (1) pay with money and (2) exchange with AD (Zax)

    How do wallet warrior buy their AD using money "officially"? Use Zax.


    Can the whole economy continue if they get rid of Zax?
    Yes, they can but this game will hardly be free to play.

    Now, how can the wallet warrior get their AD "officially" if the Zax is gone?
    Buy AD from Zen store such as AD pack.
    Unofficially, they will need to find an item that can allow them to sell with a higher AD/Zen ratio.

    What I am trying to point out is: Cryptic does not have to keep the Zax. Hence, for them, there is no good incentive to improve Zax waiting time. At least, not a priority.

    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    krumple01 said:

    If I am Cryptic, I don't really care about Zax backlog is huge. The longer the waiting, the higher the incentive people will pay cash to get Zen. Even if they buy stuff from Zen store and then resell in AH to get higher amount of AD, I still get my money.
    For my bottom line (as I am Cryptic), I just want people to spend money to buy Zen. I don't really want people to use AD to buy Zen although I allow it.

    It isn't just a one way street. Its from a players incentive. Why does a player buy zen? They want items or they want AD. The thing is, the zen items being sold on the AH carry with it a demand. IF the player doesn't want those items, those items don't get sold on the AH. However players generally want Zen, so a player who wants zen and are willing to trade a way their AD to a player selling zen then its a much more efficient means of obtaining either one. So you can't just look at it from Cryptics perspective. Sure they want the cash for the zen but you have to consider player incentive to buy zen in the first place.

    I would say those who pays dollar to buy Zen would want both the item and AD.
    So, they bought some for personal use and let some to sell.

    What is player's incentive to buy Zen?
    They want something that is only in Zen store which is not available in the game. For example, VIP, lockbox key, bank slot, ...
    There is something that is cheaper to buy from Zen store than from AH such as p-ward, c-ward.
    Does anyone really go to Zen store to buy RP packs? I hope not because AH is cheaper than Zen store.
    People looks for a better deal.

    How should player get Zen?
    There are two ways, (1) pay with money and (2) exchange with AD (Zax)

    How do wallet warrior buy their AD using money "officially"? Use Zax.


    Can the whole economy continue if they get rid of Zax?
    Yes, they can but this game will hardly be free to play.

    Now, how can the wallet warrior get their AD "officially" if the Zax is gone?
    Buy AD from Zen store such as AD pack.
    Unofficially, they will need to find an item that can allow them to sell with a higher AD/Zen ratio.

    What I am trying to point out is: Cryptic does not have to keep the Zax. Hence, for them, there is no good incentive to improve Zax waiting time. At least, not a priority.

    Why dont they just sell a "I win" item then. Sell it for $1000 usd and when you double click the item in your inventory, you win. Game over.

    Selling AD packs basically don't prevent players from getting millions of easy AD. The exchange at least requires getting the AD that is already in the game. If they sell AD packs they are essentially introducing more AD into the economy that isn't already there. With the exchange its moving AD from one player and to another player. So selling those AD packs would cause massive inflation, because there would be several cash cow players who will dump lots of money to get millions of AD. This would further divide the line between new players and veteran players. The exchange is a better system than selling AD packs because it prevents inflation. All its doing is trading who owns the AD. So selling AD packs would be a terrible idea. I think Cryptic is well aware that selling AD packs would be terrible and probably why they don't.

    Even when they allow players to sell Zen pack items on the AH there is no AD being created out of nothing. Its just trading an item for ad that already exists.

    The thing cryptic has failed to do is make reasonable AD sinks that are worth destroying AD for. Most players either find their current sinks too expensive or there is a way around those sinks that don't cost as much.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    krumple01 said:

    krumple01 said:

    If I am Cryptic, I don't really care about Zax backlog is huge. The longer the waiting, the higher the incentive people will pay cash to get Zen. Even if they buy stuff from Zen store and then resell in AH to get higher amount of AD, I still get my money.
    For my bottom line (as I am Cryptic), I just want people to spend money to buy Zen. I don't really want people to use AD to buy Zen although I allow it.

    It isn't just a one way street. Its from a players incentive. Why does a player buy zen? They want items or they want AD. The thing is, the zen items being sold on the AH carry with it a demand. IF the player doesn't want those items, those items don't get sold on the AH. However players generally want Zen, so a player who wants zen and are willing to trade a way their AD to a player selling zen then its a much more efficient means of obtaining either one. So you can't just look at it from Cryptics perspective. Sure they want the cash for the zen but you have to consider player incentive to buy zen in the first place.

    I would say those who pays dollar to buy Zen would want both the item and AD.
    So, they bought some for personal use and let some to sell.

    What is player's incentive to buy Zen?
    They want something that is only in Zen store which is not available in the game. For example, VIP, lockbox key, bank slot, ...
    There is something that is cheaper to buy from Zen store than from AH such as p-ward, c-ward.
    Does anyone really go to Zen store to buy RP packs? I hope not because AH is cheaper than Zen store.
    People looks for a better deal.

    How should player get Zen?
    There are two ways, (1) pay with money and (2) exchange with AD (Zax)

    How do wallet warrior buy their AD using money "officially"? Use Zax.


    Can the whole economy continue if they get rid of Zax?
    Yes, they can but this game will hardly be free to play.

    Now, how can the wallet warrior get their AD "officially" if the Zax is gone?
    Buy AD from Zen store such as AD pack.
    Unofficially, they will need to find an item that can allow them to sell with a higher AD/Zen ratio.

    What I am trying to point out is: Cryptic does not have to keep the Zax. Hence, for them, there is no good incentive to improve Zax waiting time. At least, not a priority.

    Why dont they just sell a "I win" item then. Sell it for $1000 usd and when you double click the item in your inventory, you win. Game over.

    Selling AD packs basically don't prevent players from getting millions of easy AD. The exchange at least requires getting the AD that is already in the game. If they sell AD packs they are essentially introducing more AD into the economy that isn't already there. With the exchange its moving AD from one player and to another player. So selling those AD packs would cause massive inflation, because there would be several cash cow players who will dump lots of money to get millions of AD. This would further divide the line between new players and veteran players. The exchange is a better system than selling AD packs because it prevents inflation. All its doing is trading who owns the AD. So selling AD packs would be a terrible idea. I think Cryptic is well aware that selling AD packs would be terrible and probably why they don't.

    Even when they allow players to sell Zen pack items on the AH there is no AD being created out of nothing. Its just trading an item for ad that already exists.

    The thing cryptic has failed to do is make reasonable AD sinks that are worth destroying AD for. Most players either find their current sinks too expensive or there is a way around those sinks that don't cost as much.

    The "I win" item is kind of exist in Zen store already and allows you to skip a lot of grinding. Every item that you can buy to skip part of the game is an "I win" item IMO.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    By creating the AD boxes which are buyable through Zen, the part of the playerbase which still doing this through the exchange to skip the grind, will be able get this currency. Make the ration they want Zen be compared to AD and everybody is happy. problem solved.

    No, offering AD boxes from Zen store would cause massive inflation of AD in the game. It wouldn't solve anything and it would cause prices on the AH to skyrocket. This means the f2p players would end up quitting not being able to afford anything on the AH or remain f2p. Once these players drop out what do the p2w players do? It will kill the economy and kill the game to sell AD boxes.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    krumple01 said:

    By creating the AD boxes which are buyable through Zen, the part of the playerbase which still doing this through the exchange to skip the grind, will be able get this currency. Make the ration they want Zen be compared to AD and everybody is happy. problem solved.

    No, offering AD boxes from Zen store would cause massive inflation of AD in the game. It wouldn't solve anything and it would cause prices on the AH to skyrocket. This means the f2p players would end up quitting not being able to afford anything on the AH or remain f2p. Once these players drop out what do the p2w players do? It will kill the economy and kill the game to sell AD boxes.

    I did not say that. I re-quote that for you.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 452 Arc User
    The fundamental problem is and always has been too much AD and not enough sinks. Wards are a zen item .. for every one bought Cryptic makes money so there is zero chance they will ever put that in a vendor for AD. Not only that, there is no reason for them to do so as they have similar items for sale with AD in the game - Marks of Potency (Required for upgrades, just as wards are). The problem is that instead of leaving these items as a pure AD sink, they put them in loot tables and (worst of all) in lockboxes, flooding the market and AH with these (so their effective AD sink is only 10% of what was intended).

    So .. want to decrease the amount of AD in the game? Let the sinks already in the game do their job and remove marks of potency from loot tables and from lockboxes. It won't fix the ZAX immediately, but it will go a long way towards getting rid of some of the absurd amounts of AD in the system.
    PandorasMisfits_Logo_175_zpskpytcqxc.png
    Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
    Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    The fundamental problem is and always has been too much AD and not enough sinks. Wards are a zen item .. for every one bought Cryptic makes money so there is zero chance they will ever put that in a vendor for AD. Not only that, there is no reason for them to do so as they have similar items for sale with AD in the game - Marks of Potency (Required for upgrades, just as wards are). The problem is that instead of leaving these items as a pure AD sink, they put them in loot tables and (worst of all) in lockboxes, flooding the market and AH with these (so their effective AD sink is only 10% of what was intended).

    So .. want to decrease the amount of AD in the game? Let the sinks already in the game do their job and remove marks of potency from loot tables and from lockboxes. It won't fix the ZAX immediately, but it will go a long way towards getting rid of some of the absurd amounts of AD in the system.

    Technically, p-ward and c-ward are also in the loot table except they are account/character bound.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • exgardianexgardian Member Posts: 253 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    As I said before, I believe that adding a new NPC (or adding then in Wondrous Bazaar) selling these sink items like P-Wards, C-Wards, Companion Tokens and Insignia Packs with your real value (C-Ward at 500k per example) with BoA status, that's enough to gradually "fix" the ZAX.

    Currently, the most common player base (including myself) who want to enjoy the game, and need to exchange AD for ZEN just to buy a 1-month VIP, they'll find a huge ZAX stratospheric wall to climb. And in the end, in my case, I end up buying VIP using my mythic Mastercard artifact, because the ZEN comes almost 2 months later.

    Addind these items, will incentive players to keep online much more time to farm their AD, and save resources for the next modules and contents <3, and the ZAX wall will shatter little by little.

    No need to add more than this stuff, and this will not break the game's economy because the Zen Store will remain intact. Who wants to buy C-Ward and P-wards for example using ZEN, will continue to buy there normally as it has always been. But we need a second option to buy these stuffs for AD ! Adding some BoA exclusive stuffs in AH helps too.

    Think about that: It's us, the players, that keep this game online! If something isn't right, what we, players, do ? We'll give the feedback or post something about in Bug Reports forums, so that action is taken on top of that. Although it doesn't seem for some people, things won't work like "I would do it and not that, just because it's better for us". Please NO !! Things don't work that way, and should never work like that ! A QoL economy change is needed, and it's up to us, the players, to push the staff to make it happen ASAP.
    2fv72Fw.png
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    exgardian said:

    As I said before, I believe that adding a new NPC (or adding then in Wondrous Bazaar) selling these sink items like P-Wards, C-Wards, Companion Tokens and Insignia Packs with your real value (C-Ward at 500k per example) with BoA status, that's enough to gradually "fix" the ZAX.

    Currently, the most common player base (including myself) who want to enjoy the game, and need to exchange AD for ZEN just to buy a 1-month VIP, they'll find a huge ZAX stratospheric wall to climb. And in the end, in my case, I end up buying VIP using my mythic Mastercard artifact, because the ZEN comes almost 2 months later.

    Addind these items, will incentive players to keep online much more time to farm their AD, and save resources for the next modules and contents <3, and the ZAX wall will shatter little by little.

    No need to add more than this stuff, and this will not break the game's economy because the Zen Store will remain intact. Who wants to buy C-Ward and P-wards for example using ZEN, will continue to buy there normally as it has always been. But we need a second option to buy these stuffs for AD ! Adding some BoA exclusive stuffs in AH helps too.

    Think about that: It's us, the players, that keep this game online! If something isn't right, what we, players, do ? We'll give the feedback or post something about in Bug Reports forums, so that action is taken on top of that. Although it doesn't seem for some people, things won't work like "I would do it and not that, just because it's better for us". Please NO !! Things don't work that way, and should never work like that ! A QoL economy change is needed, and it's up to us, the players, to push the staff to make it happen ASAP.</p>

    The part you are missing is why players buy zen in the first place. Some will buy it for items they use themselves but others do it to obtain AD. Currently they use the AH to make that AD by selling zen store items.

    If you make an NPC that sells these as an AD sink and remove the ability for players to sell on the AH. Then players will simply stop buying zen. You think fixing the exchange will help keep players buying zen? No, the exchange cap is not set HIGH enough for players to net the return on AD that they KNOW zen is worth.

    So if you allow players to continue buying zen items and selling on the AH then your solution solves nothing because players will sell these items on the AH for less than the NPC is selling them for. Just look at the enchanting stones. There is an NPC that sells enchanting stones yet the AH sells them for less AD so no player buys them off the NPC.

    If you remove the ability for players to trade zen pack items on the AH and force players to go through an NPC only for p-wards, c-wards, ect as you proposed then you leave the exchange as the only trading source. NO player will do it because Zen is worth more than 500 ad currently. So you never get past the players who first incentive is to get Zen to make AD. But you have removed this incentive through your solution.

    Also you have to consider the impact that NPC only items that hinder progress. Currently you can get pres wards through other means, invoking, and experience reward, and occasionally a dungeon reward. Also there are several events that give pres wards as a reward. If you remove these then players see that the only way to progress is to dump their AD onto an NPC that has no fluctuating prices. This burns players out and they quit. What is the point in running some events that use to have pres wards as rewards and now that has been removed because they want their NPC ad sink to work. No one will run those events.

    The AH keeps this aspect alive because players can trade pres wards they don't need for AD so they can get the items they DO need. Essentially your solution would remove this from happening. It also means less rewards all around. You are reducing the loot tables to what? Nothing of value.

  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,611 Arc User
    I wonder what would happen if the AD cap was dropped to 200 AD/Zen?
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,214 Arc User
    Probably more people would leave.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • exgardianexgardian Member Posts: 253 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    My guild leader told me today that in early February, he put 5,000 of ZEN to buy at ZAX. Just to buy stuff to support the guild (vouchers and shards). Now it's already the second week of April and his ZEN hasn't come yet. And this situation only tends to get worse and worse every day.

    For anyone who tries to put their AD to buy ZEN in ZAX today, the waiting time will take at least 4 months.

    If this continues, as we approach the end of this year, the waiting time to buy ZEN will go from 100kk easily, to the point that it becomes completely unfeasible if nothing is done about this!

    When that finally happens, no one will ever want to buy ZEN using ZAX. Would you use ZAX to buy ZEN, even though you will have to wait 8 months or more? Me, never ! Then the game will become more and more like a p2w game, because in the end, you will be forced to buy your VIP, or that Coalescent Ward that you need so much, using real money at all times.
    2fv72Fw.png
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,214 Arc User
    So spend real money to get what you want. You get what you want. The company gets money to keep going. Win all around.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,611 Arc User
    Part of the problem is the artificial $15/hour minimum wage in CA which hugely raises prices, which requires higher wages to pay for the stuff which requires higher wages to pay the newer higher prices, etc. etc.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    Part of the problem is the artificial $15/hour minimum wage in CA which hugely raises prices, which requires higher wages to pay for the stuff which requires higher wages to pay the newer higher prices, etc. etc.

    I think minimum wage in California is $12. For the cities that has higher minimum pay, I thought the reason is the other way around as the lower pay job cannot have people who can afford to stay in the city to do the job.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Member Posts: 452 Arc User

    Part of the problem is the artificial $15/hour minimum wage in CA which hugely raises prices, which requires higher wages to pay for the stuff which requires higher wages to pay the newer higher prices, etc. etc.

    The minimum wage has NOTHING to do with this problem. Do you really think any of the developers make minimum wage? Programmers/computer scientists usually have at least a Bachelor's degree and the going rate for a computer scientist with any kind of experience is several times minimum wage. I have no idea what Cryptic pays it's staff, but most of the programmers/computer scientists I work with pull down anywhere from 30 dollars an hour (Junior programmer) to 70 dollars an hour (Senior level).

    The reason the ZAX exchange is totally backed up at the moment is a simple one .... nobody is spending money to buy zen. And why should they? You are better off waiting until Mod 16 drops and then spending your zen on the new stuff ...
    PandorasMisfits_Logo_175_zpskpytcqxc.png
    Winter Lily (CW) / Winter Rose (DC) / Winter Ivy (HR)
    Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,629 Arc User

    Part of the problem is the artificial $15/hour minimum wage in CA which hugely raises prices, which requires higher wages to pay for the stuff which requires higher wages to pay the newer higher prices, etc. etc.

    I think minimum wage in California is $12. For the cities that has higher minimum pay, I thought the reason is the other way around as the lower pay job cannot have people who can afford to stay in the city to do the job.
    It's kinda both. Introducing high-end wages to a new area that is not ready for it artificially inflates the housing market. This causes the prices of most things to rise also. People cannot afford to live without the higher wages. But companies that suddenly see an increase in their payroll (one of the largest business expenditures in most fields) suddenly have a choice to make: reduce the number of staff, or reduce the number of hours the current staff works. Either option stresses the local economy. Also, the workforce becomes less stable as they are forced to either enter a saturated job market (where supply & demand does NOT favor the employee), or adjust to a temporary/seasonal/part-time work environment.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,629 Arc User

    Part of the problem is the artificial $15/hour minimum wage in CA which hugely raises prices, which requires higher wages to pay for the stuff which requires higher wages to pay the newer higher prices, etc. etc.

    The minimum wage has NOTHING to do with this problem. Do you really think any of the developers make minimum wage? Programmers/computer scientists usually have at least a Bachelor's degree and the going rate for a computer scientist with any kind of experience is several times minimum wage. I have no idea what Cryptic pays it's staff, but most of the programmers/computer scientists I work with pull down anywhere from 30 dollars an hour (Junior programmer) to 70 dollars an hour (Senior level).

    The reason the ZAX exchange is totally backed up at the moment is a simple one .... nobody is spending money to buy zen. And why should they? You are better off waiting until Mod 16 drops and then spending your zen on the new stuff ...
    Cryptic doesn't have janitorial staff? Office supplies? Maintenance staff? Their employees don't eat lunch in the community? I know for damn sure they pay a whopping electric bill!
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,214 Arc User
    I wouldn't say no one is buying zen. People probably still are. What they are not doing is dropping any of it into the zax.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,931 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Well, they should start with ZEN charge promotions that go from start to finish without all those problems in between that only result in players having to fight with the support to get the rewards they were promised... and bring back those account wide rewards again too.

    Then rework/update the Wondrous Bazaar with stuff that is reasonable priced and usefull to most players, so that a good portion of the AD created by players is drained out of the game again.

    Last but not least, when some game changing updates (mod 16) have to be done to the game... at the very least acknowledge the investment (time/money) made by players to your game, and give them something/anything to balance their losses in return.
    Post edited by regenerde on
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    Part of the problem is the artificial $15/hour minimum wage in CA which hugely raises prices, which requires higher wages to pay for the stuff which requires higher wages to pay the newer higher prices, etc. etc.

    Wow someone who actually gets it. Yes you are 100% right on this. Most people think raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour will solve so many problems but it doesn't solve anything. It just makes prices of goods and services go up. For example to those who still don't understand this; Lets say there is a restaurant that currently has a cook being paid $15 dollars as a standard wage for them and the dishwasher makes $10.50 as minimum wage, then they introduce the $15 minimum wage increase.

    Do you think that cook is going to be happy knowing that now the dishwasher makes as much as them? No, they will want a wage increase too and not just a little one, like $16 or $17. So the entire company has to increase everyone's wages, which causes a massive increase in labor costs. So a restaurant like this would either raise their prices on their food, or get rid of how many employees they have. So it causes job losses, and also employers become increasingly more strict on who they hire. The only other option they have if they don't want to raise their prices on food or fire any of their employees is to use lower quality goods, instead of using real beef they use some byproduct HAMSTER that is cheaper to cut their costs.

    NO ONE WINS except the government when they raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    Part of the problem is the artificial $15/hour minimum wage in CA which hugely raises prices, which requires higher wages to pay for the stuff which requires higher wages to pay the newer higher prices, etc. etc.

    The minimum wage has NOTHING to do with this problem. Do you really think any of the developers make minimum wage? Programmers/computer scientists usually have at least a Bachelor's degree and the going rate for a computer scientist with any kind of experience is several times minimum wage. I have no idea what Cryptic pays it's staff, but most of the programmers/computer scientists I work with pull down anywhere from 30 dollars an hour (Junior programmer) to 70 dollars an hour (Senior level).

    The reason the ZAX exchange is totally backed up at the moment is a simple one .... nobody is spending money to buy zen. And why should they? You are better off waiting until Mod 16 drops and then spending your zen on the new stuff ...
    You are completely wrong on this. There are players buying zen and a lot of them. The thing is they don't use the ZAX to make their AD. They use the AH by selling zen item packs. Zen is worth more than 500 ad per 1 zen which is why no players use it.

    Here is another way to look at this issue. Lets say you have a little market and every day every customer that walks in the door buys the exact same item, maybe other items too but lets just call this item a cookie. Every customer that walks in the door buys one. You can't even keep the stock up because they sell out faster than you can resupply. Knowing good business sense this tells you the cookie is being sold for too little. You want this to slow down so it keeps up with your re-supply. So you raise the price on the cookie until not every customer who walks through the door buys one. Until your stock meets your re-supply.

    Now the opposite can happen, if you set the cookie price too high and no one buys them then your stock sits there and collects dust and mold. Now I know you might have reading comprehension issues here so I'll tell you I am well aware that zen can't or doesn't collect dust, its digital. The point is the reason the ZAX is not trading is because Zen is worth more than 500 ad per 1 zen. I bet they would have to raise the ZAX cap to 2000 before they would see it positively trading because I theorize by looking at other average prices on the AH that Zen is probably worth around 1200 to 1500 AD per 1 zen.

  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    I wouldn't say no one is buying zen. People probably still are. What they are not doing is dropping any of it into the zax.

    krumple01 said:

    There are players buying zen and a lot of them. The thing is they don't use the ZAX to make their AD. They use the AH by selling zen item packs. Zen is worth more than 500 ad per 1 zen which is why no players use it.

    I've wondered about this from time to time.
    Who's dropping zen into the exchange?

    Is it all coming from players who don't know any better, are simply too impatient, or maybe have money to burn?
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    greywynd said:

    I wouldn't say no one is buying zen. People probably still are. What they are not doing is dropping any of it into the zax.

    krumple01 said:

    There are players buying zen and a lot of them. The thing is they don't use the ZAX to make their AD. They use the AH by selling zen item packs. Zen is worth more than 500 ad per 1 zen which is why no players use it.

    I've wondered about this from time to time.
    Who's dropping zen into the exchange?

    Is it all coming from players who don't know any better, are simply too impatient, or maybe have money to burn?
    I am almost certain they are brand new players who are unaware that they can get their AD worth through the AH. It makes sense because they wouldn't know those items can be traded. So the trickle in of zen on the ZAX comes probably from brand new players.

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