The discussion you are having revolves around the question, "Should a single Paragon DPs be as useful at DPS at a duel spec DPS?"
I think we need to know what the devs aims were for each class before deciding whether classes are equally viable. The most obvious "Worse class in a given scenario" has to be Paladin in solo/leveling as it has no DPS option. Because it can NOT switch paragons in queue based content, it is bound to feel "weaker" in general play.
When it comes to group play, because no one can switch paragons, any DPS should offer the same potential as any other fotr the benefit of the rest of the group.
(My very old PC has had a hissy fit. Something about getting too hot... might be best if I pay attention this time...)
Could someone do me a huge favour and have a look on preview and let me know what the new Mount Bonuses are on the Barovia Mounts; "Swarm" and "Mistform"? I'm struggling to find compiled data on the overhaul, (People seem to prefer to create annoying Youtube videos about the End of The World...) which is a pain in the HAMSTER when I can't get on... (Yes... YES... I know... I could have done some myself when I HAD access, but I'm a dumbass OK...)
Thanks in advance.
I have them equipped, but don't have the raw items directly and can't find them in collections. It looks like the Life Steal Severity bonuses in my mount bonus list have been converted to Critical Resistance though. The main Life Steal stat on other items also looks like it's been converted to Crit Resist.
Everywhere I've looked, it looks like LS/LSS has turned into Crit Resist, and Recovery has turned into Accuracy.
Here are the item cards for @mordekai#1901 if that helps.
Cheers dude.
I kind of thought those replacements would be across the board, but wanted to be sure.
I'm buying a fire extinguisher this afternoon so I can risk turning my PC on.
In reality all that will happen if this is enforced in private queues is people will leave the dungeon, change their paragon outside the dungeon then get reinvited.
Unless they enforce a temporary time lock on rejoining a group after leaving IF you switch Role (so accidental DC or similar doesn't impact). Only a couple of minutes, 5 tops, but enough to deter people from doing as you describe. Or just switch them back automatically to the Role they began with when they rejoin.
And, frankly, if they don't do that or something similar to maintain the integrity of "Once you choose your role, you stick to it!", they might as well give up any pretence and allow full Role switching at will and wave ta-ta to CW, HR, and TR being considered by anyone while LFG for end game content.
And then we're back to the question of "What's the point of those three classes in end game dungeons, when clearly better - more versatile- options exist?"
And if we attempt to balance that by the notion that DPS/DPS be better for DPS than DPS/Support we are just fostering general inequality of class before the notion of trap feats enters the debate. If DPS/DPS classes should have better DPS potential than DPS/Support, then Support/Support should, by the same rationale, be better at Support than DPS/Support. Ergo the Paladin should be both optimal Healer, and optimal Tank, and that's clearly stupid.
And even if it weren't stupid, the DPS/DPS would need to SERIOUSLY outperform the DPS/Support for it to overcome the obvious benefit of having TWO Roles.
When in a dungeon, Tank classes should all be as viable as each other, all Healer classes should be as viable as each other and all DPS classes, should be as viable as each other. All that should be irrelevant of any other role they may have access to at other times.
To try to balance classes in the scenario of making DPS/DPS "more DPSy" than DPS/Support in order to exactly balance it against classes that are able to switch roles mid content is going to be nigh on impossible. Meaning that either DPS/DPS or DPS/Support will be manifestly "Better" options for those same groups where lockouts for certain classes has long been an issue. And the "Meta" group will be reborn.
6
minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
I legit am getting the impression that many of these changes that lock players into specific party roles are tailored to weed out solo players. I want to continue to love the game and stick wiith it but so far i am anything but reassured by what i have been shown.
This is me exactly, particularly the lack of any reassurance by what we've seen/heard thus far.
I don’t understand this.
What are you concerned about exactly?
That solo play on a Paly will be too hard? (It’s not, and I’ve played near best case and near worst case)
Same with Warlock.
I’ll reserve judgement on Barbarian and Fighter because I haven’t played enough of either of them, but so far so good.
DC is no different on preview than live in terms of effectiveness of its 2 specs, so again I’m confused by the comment(s).
Not too hard, just about as much fun as watching paint dry, soloing is dull and lifeless compared to M15.
hopefully there is a serious looking over of how to keep players locked into the paragon they choose to queue as once entered. I'm pretty sure it's relatively easy to put in place though. for example with ffxiv(last time I played), even though one character can become any job/class, once you've synced into an instance you're locked into that job until you beat whatever it is you're doing or you drop the group, but there's no getting back in once you drop out.
Last boss on SoT should get role in Tokio Drift movie. When he initiate his fire hand or whatever its called ( that cone AoE of his) he just slides across the arena. Not even mention that every other attack he aims at someone else. Whats the point of tank presence if despite being focus for him others are targeted.
Your browser does not support the video tag.
Other then that SoT suppose to be 8k IL dungeon, I'd like to see party with 8k that fights with that boss. I'm 14k and have to run around to stay alive, I;m a tank i should stand there and laugh at him atleast for some time and not die in 2 hits (that last hit was 110k, with stats reduction i have 140k on SoT). And its the lowest epic dungeon.
I don't know if anyone reported this, but will someone for the love of any deity please disable or lower down the sound of the negation enchantment. It is driving me bonkers.
also new head, hand and feet gear can't be use for changing appearance
The classes that can equip the gear have to be an exact match, even if you can equip the gear. While it doesn't seem to be a bug, it isn't what I consider a desirable arrangement.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
1
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
> @vida44 said: > I don't know if anyone reported this, but will someone for the love of any deity please disable or lower down the sound of the negation enchantment. It is driving me bonkers.
It's not called "Negation" anymore. They renamed it "Tinnitus".
It's funny, because causing an irritating buzzing sound in enemy ears would be a legtimate form of defense.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Last boss on SoT should get role in Tokio Drift movie. When he initiate his fire hand or whatever its called ( that cone AoE of his) he just slides across the arena. Not even mention that every other attack he aims at someone else. Whats the point of tank presence if despite being focus for him others are targeted.
Your browser does not support the video tag.
Other then that SoT suppose to be 8k IL dungeon, I'd like to see party with 8k that fights with that boss. I'm 14k and have to run around to stay alive, I;m a tank i should stand there and laugh at him atleast for some time and not die in 2 hits (that last hit was 110k, with stats reduction i have 140k on SoT). And its the lowest epic dungeon.
Party made of 5x 8k IL. And you're soloing it with 14k IL so you can't really compare difficulty.
0
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
Unless they enforce a temporary time lock on rejoining a group after leaving IF you switch Role (so accidental DC or similar doesn't impact). Only a couple of minutes, 5 tops, but enough to deter people from doing as you describe. Or just switch them back automatically to the Role they began with when they rejoin.
And, frankly, if they don't do that or something similar to maintain the integrity of "Once you choose your role, you stick to it!", they might as well give up any pretence and allow full Role switching at will and wave ta-ta to CW, HR, and TR being considered by anyone while LFG for end game content.
And then we're back to the question of "What's the point of those three classes in end game dungeons, when clearly better - more versatile- options exist?"
To try to balance classes in the scenario of making DPS/DPS "more DPSy" than DPS/Support in order to exactly balance it against classes that are able to switch roles mid content is going to be nigh on impossible. Meaning that either DPS/DPS or DPS/Support will be manifestly "Better" options for those same groups where lockouts for certain classes has long been an issue. And the "Meta" group will be reborn.
My fear also. It's a conundrum. But I think there will always be some form of Meta, even if there were no choices and all DPS were exactly equal. Someone will always strive for the combination that gives 0.1% improved efficiency. Hell, even the Arcade version of Gauntlet had a Meta. 2 Valkyries (fore and aft tank), 1 Wizard (ranged DPS for mobs/CC) and 1 Warrior (main DPS) Elves suck. Never take an Elf. Yes, I'm obsessed with Gauntlet. Anyway...
The cure to the Meta is to make all compositions (not classes) so similar in efficiency that the majority of players will not care. Is DPS equity the way to do that? Dunno. And don't think NW can be fine-tuned across DPS classes to such precision. Someone will always have a bit more DPS. My point (and I do have one) is maybe get as close to the DPS equator as you can. Those who want + 0.1% Meta will take 2 Valkyries. The majority will not care and take that Elf.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
i seem to scale down at a redicilous rate when i enter a lvl 70 zone even tho i am only lvl 72 in total. is this intended or an isue??
edit: my general stats seem to scale down fine it is only my weapon enchant that is just redicilous. Generaly it should give -800 crit resist per stack but only gives 137 and the poisen dmg wnt from 3.5 percent to 0.7. this seems like a big nerf. Might be intended tho most zones seem to be harder ut still managable. (same goes for dungeons even tho some of those seem to have gotten a litlle to hard.
Unless they enforce a temporary time lock on rejoining a group after leaving IF you switch Role (so accidental DC or similar doesn't impact). Only a couple of minutes, 5 tops, but enough to deter people from doing as you describe. Or just switch them back automatically to the Role they began with when they rejoin.
And, frankly, if they don't do that or something similar to maintain the integrity of "Once you choose your role, you stick to it!", they might as well give up any pretence and allow full Role switching at will and wave ta-ta to CW, HR, and TR being considered by anyone while LFG for end game content.
And then we're back to the question of "What's the point of those three classes in end game dungeons, when clearly better - more versatile- options exist?"
To try to balance classes in the scenario of making DPS/DPS "more DPSy" than DPS/Support in order to exactly balance it against classes that are able to switch roles mid content is going to be nigh on impossible. Meaning that either DPS/DPS or DPS/Support will be manifestly "Better" options for those same groups where lockouts for certain classes has long been an issue. And the "Meta" group will be reborn.
My fear also. It's a conundrum. But I think there will always be some form of Meta, even if there were no choices and all DPS were exactly equal. Someone will always strive for the combination that gives 0.1% improved efficiency. Hell, even the Arcade version of Gauntlet had a Meta. 2 Valkyries (fore and aft tank), 1 Wizard (ranged DPS for mobs/CC) and 1 Warrior (main DPS) Elves suck. Never take an Elf. Yes, I'm obsessed with Gauntlet. Anyway...
The cure to the Meta is to make all compositions (not classes) so similar in efficiency that the majority of players will not care. Is DPS equity the way to do that? Dunno. And don't think NW can be fine-tuned across DPS classes to such precision. Someone will always have a bit more DPS. My point (and I do have one) is maybe get as close to the DPS equator as you can. Those who want + 0.1% Meta will take 2 Valkyries. The majority will not care and take that Elf.
I think the best they can aim for is parity enough that it is preferable to take the "slightly" lesser option than wait for ages for the perfect combination to line up. If someone's playing with their four friends and they establish the Uber Meta, then great... good luck to them. But the issue has for some time been those poor buggers waiting for someone who will welcome them into a pre-made into something like Castle Ravenloft, because they don't have enough friends online to form their own group, and they have failed the past 13 PUGs on CR because on every one of those PUGs 3 out of 5 members of the group were 13'100 IL and hoping they will be carried through.
When Mod 15 landed, my TR was about as welcome in those groups as a fungal infection. He'd always been the red headed step child next to the GWF, but at least he'd managed to get a few runs in. But post M15... nuthin'.
And I understood WHY. It's hard content, and can take a long time if you don't have the absolute optimum set up. And if you can GET the Meta, you TAKE it.
2
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
In reality all that will happen if this is enforced in private queues is people will leave the dungeon, change their paragon outside the dungeon then get reinvited.
I just don't know how anyone gets it into their mind that if the Fighter sucks at tanking they can just ask that player to switch to DPS and ask the DPS Barbarian to take over tanking and everything will be great.
Or that if the Warlock sucks at healing they can just switch over to DPS and the DPS Cleric will happily jump into the healing role and everything will go so much better.
Never mind the rare triple-switch, where the Paladin sucks at tanking so they take over heals, the Cleric that was on heals moves into DPS, and the DPS Barbarian moves to tank and suddenly what was an ineffectual group in now an unstoppable force.
When you are trying to get a group together are you bypassing Wizards and Rangers and Rogues that want to join your group just because you are thinking "but if our tank sucks we need someone that can switch to tank" or "if our healer sucks we need someone that can switch to heals"? What do the tank and healer think about that?
If you have a Fighter and Barbarian on DPS in the group already and just need a tank, are you turning down Paladins that offer to join as a tank because they can not take over the DPS role if things go badly?
"No, sorry. We can't take them and get started because if you suck I want a replacement on-hand". Yeah, that should go over well.
Is keeping these strangers in a group so important? Keep in mind that these are strangers who have failed so badly at the job they signed up for that you have decided that the dungeon simply can not be completed with them in that role.
"Yeah, but they will be great at DPS and the other guy will be a great tank. I just know it!". But what if the others do not share that bright outlook?
What makes you think that the other players will be willing to stick it out as you conduct your role-swap experiments? If someone queues up, messes up, and decides to switch roles, what incentive is there for the rest of the group that did not mess up to keep them around in the new role?
In reality all that will happen if this is enforced in private queues is people will leave the dungeon, change their paragon outside the dungeon then get reinvited.
I just don't know how anyone gets it into their mind that if the Fighter sucks at tanking they can just ask that player to switch to DPS and ask the DPS Barbarian to take over tanking and everything will be great.
Or that if the Warlock sucks at healing they can just switch over to DPS and the DPS Cleric will happily jump into the healing role and everything will go so much better.
Never mind the rare triple-switch, where the Paladin sucks at tanking so they take over heals, the Cleric that was on heals moves into DPS, and the DPS Barbarian moves to tank and suddenly what was an ineffectual group in now an unstoppable force.
When you are trying to get a group together are you bypassing Wizards and Rangers and Rogues that want to join your group just because you are thinking "but if our tank sucks we need someone that can switch to tank" or "if our healer sucks we need someone that can switch to heals"? What do the tank and healer think about that?
If you have a Fighter and Barbarian on DPS in the group already and just need a tank, are you turning down Paladins that offer to join as a tank because they can not take over the DPS role if things go badly?
"No, sorry. We can't take them and get started because if you suck I want a replacement on-hand". Yeah, that should go over well.
Is keeping these strangers in a group so important? Keep in mind that these are strangers who have failed so badly at the job they signed up for that you have decided that the dungeon simply can not be completed with them in that role.
"Yeah, but they will be great at DPS and the other guy will be a great tank. I just know it!". But what if the others do not share that bright outlook?
What makes you think that the other players will be willing to stick it out as you conduct your role-swap experiments? If someone queues up, messes up, and decides to switch roles, what incentive is there for the rest of the group that did not mess up to keep them around in the new role?
It's less about, "If Barbarian sucks at Tanking, Fighter can swap from DPS and take over." type situations. It's about building a group with 3 Tanks, 3 Healers and 4 DPS who can morph into various combinations thereof as the encounter demands. Paladin, 2 from Barb/Fighter and 2 from Cleric/Warlock offers that group build. If such versatility were allowed and players could drop in and out of the dungeon in order to switch Role, the "Other Three" would become that... the OTHER three... unsuitable for end game Meta due to lack of versatility. There might be the real Gandalf, Grey Mouser and Robin Hood standing in PE "LFG - CR" and they would be deemed "PUG only."
This is a random idea i just had while working, but hear me out @asterdahl - if youre finding it hard to balance out solo with group content - give role bonuses in group content that would make the class play right.
Eg, in solo, OP and HR have rougly the same capabilities, while in say FBI, the HR gets lets say a 50% damage bonus, and the OP gets more HP or Defense or something, that wouls make the HR unable to solo due to not being tanky enough, and OP wouldnt be able to deal competitive damage, and solo content woulnt be so insanely hard for one specific class. And it would make classes actually need each other ro complete the group content.
I was just watching a video on YT about mod 16. Are the feature trees gone?
Yes. Feature trees along with the variety of builds they allow have been removed. Encounter powers also have now been redistributed among the paragon paths with some remaining universal, usable by either path.
Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
I legit am getting the impression that many of these changes that lock players into specific party roles are tailored to weed out solo players. I want to continue to love the game and stick wiith it but so far i am anything but reassured by what i have been shown.
This is me exactly, particularly the lack of any reassurance by what we've seen/heard thus far.
I don’t understand this.
What are you concerned about exactly?
That solo play on a Paly will be too hard? (It’s not, and I’ve played near best case and near worst case)
Same with Warlock.
I’ll reserve judgement on Barbarian and Fighter because I haven’t played enough of either of them, but so far so good.
DC is no different on preview than live in terms of effectiveness of its 2 specs, so again I’m confused by the comment(s).
The current builds for Ranger kick a$$ in M16. In particular the Hunter (Archer) build I'm using is doing massive dps, at only 13.5k in the first levels of the Undermountain campaign (and everywhere else). Hoping they keep the build as-is, but you never know when the nerf hammer will fall.
The biggest loser in terms of class builds I've seen so far is the vanilla Destroyer GWF - the similar Barbie build in M16 cannot do the same lazy old 'stand your ground' style of play with lifesteal, unstoppable and WMS. Do that in M16 (w/o lifesteal) and you will consistently get wiped by trash mobs, much less bosses.
0
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
> @gromovnipljesak#8234 said: > This is a random idea i just had while working, but hear me out @asterdahl - if youre finding it hard to balance out solo with group content - give role bonuses in group content that would make the class play right. > > Eg, in solo, OP and HR have rougly the same capabilities, while in say FBI, the HR gets lets say a 50% damage bonus, and the OP gets more HP or Defense or something, that wouls make the HR unable to solo due to not being tanky enough, and OP wouldnt be able to deal competitive damage, and solo content woulnt be so insanely hard for one specific class. And it would make classes actually need each other ro complete the group content. > > Toodles.
That's a clever idea. I can imagine a queue with role bonuses. Like a basketball team with 5 jerseys. One DPS jersey. Put it on and get +X% Dps. One tank jersey... gives +X% Defense and passive threat. One healer jersey... +X% healing. And two... i dunno... neutral? Wild card?
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
> @dread4moor said: > > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said: > > This is a random idea i just had while working, but hear me out @asterdahl - if youre finding it hard to balance out solo with group content - give role bonuses in group content that would make the class play right. > > > > Eg, in solo, OP and HR have rougly the same capabilities, while in say FBI, the HR gets lets say a 50% damage bonus, and the OP gets more HP or Defense or something, that wouls make the HR unable to solo due to not being tanky enough, and OP wouldnt be able to deal competitive damage, and solo content woulnt be so insanely hard for one specific class. And it would make classes actually need each other ro complete the group content. > > > > Toodles. > > That's a clever idea. > I can imagine a queue with role bonuses. > Like a basketball team with 5 jerseys. > One DPS jersey. Put it on and get +X% Dps. > One tank jersey... gives +X% Defense and passive threat. > One healer jersey... +X% healing. > And two... i dunno... neutral? > Wild card? >
I imagine an all around would be better. That way you can run as many people of whatever roles you want
I have an impression that text-to-speech technology is used for Undermountain. The things itself is neither good nor bad. At least it is better than initial SKT voices that possibly were just some untrained people from the street (I do not know if it was fixed or not). But there are two major problems with it now. 1: Pauses on comma and dot are too long and unnatural, the speech is not fluid enough. 2: Speech is too dull, please use some emotion annotations if technology allows for it (or change technology if it does not). Speech for all dialogues was a strong point of Neverwinter, please make quality speech for new mod as well. The current implementation just breaks immersion.
0
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
combatant's maneuver do not increase combat advantage damage when i look the character sheet ca is not affected.
I see little point of forcing role. Cleric joining as DSP and switching to heal if party dies on some boss? This is called flexibility and it could be runsaver in critical pieces.
The same with SW. Most of dungeon as DPS and switching to heal after wipe on last boss is also useful to have.
Other case is when 4 clerics join Folly as heals (I was there as OP tank ). The would need a feature to switch to DPS otherwise there will be no gold.
It's less about, "If Barbarian sucks at Tanking, Fighter can swap from DPS and take over." type situations. It's about building a group with 3 Tanks, 3 Healers and 4 DPS who can morph into various combinations thereof as the encounter demands. Paladin, 2 from Barb/Fighter and 2 from Cleric/Warlock offers that group build. If such versatility were allowed and players could drop in and out of the dungeon in order to switch Role, the "Other Three" would become that... the OTHER three... unsuitable for end game Meta due to lack of versatility. There might be the real Gandalf, Grey Mouser and Robin Hood standing in PE "LFG - CR" and they would be deemed "PUG only."
What have we seen to indicate that a dungeon will not be doable by the standard set-up of 3 DPS, 1 tank, and 1 healer?
Because that is where this all needs to start at.
If that is what is required to do a dungeon then just how long do you think people will be willing to wait for someone to put the "perfect" group together? How much longer will they want to wait while someone leaves the group, switches roles, re-joins the group, re-enters the dungeon, and catches up to the group, only to repeat the process once that particular encounter is done (never mind that trading DPS for a second healer or tank will slow the fight down), and then repeat that however many times during the dungeon?
I think that you are looking at a small minority of people. The same people that won't want a (insert class here) in the group because "testing" showed that (insert different class here) was "better".
The majority of players will probably be quite content with forming a group and letting everyone just fill the roles that they signed up as, no matter their class.
And your solution? Giving DPS/DPS classes more DPS? That will only marginalize the dual-role DPSers in the eyes of that majority. A tank/DPSer or heal/DPSer would have no more luck finding groups in their DPS role than a Paladin would as a DPSer.
If the devs design a 5-player dungeon that requires a second tank or second healer then shame on them, but until such a thing comes along you created a solution searching for a problem.
1
silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
The biggest loser in terms of class builds I've seen so far is the vanilla Destroyer GWF - the similar Barbie build in M16 cannot do the same lazy old 'stand your ground' style of play with lifesteal, unstoppable and WMS. Do that in M16 (w/o lifesteal) and you will consistently get wiped by trash mobs, much less bosses.
I think if a "lazy" style of gameplay is gone, then that is a win. My Barbarian is a lot more fun to play then his Destroyer incarnation.
The biggest loser in terms of class builds I've seen so far is the vanilla Destroyer GWF - the similar Barbie build in M16 cannot do the same lazy old 'stand your ground' style of play with lifesteal, unstoppable and WMS. Do that in M16 (w/o lifesteal) and you will consistently get wiped by trash mobs, much less bosses.
I think if a "lazy" style of gameplay is gone, then that is a win. My Barbarian is a lot more fun to play then his Destroyer incarnation.
I'm of the opinion that a "lazy option" should be available, but suboptimal.
Comments
And, frankly, if they don't do that or something similar to maintain the integrity of "Once you choose your role, you stick to it!", they might as well give up any pretence and allow full Role switching at will and wave ta-ta to CW, HR, and TR being considered by anyone while LFG for end game content.
And then we're back to the question of "What's the point of those three classes in end game dungeons, when clearly better - more versatile- options exist?"
And if we attempt to balance that by the notion that DPS/DPS be better for DPS than DPS/Support we are just fostering general inequality of class before the notion of trap feats enters the debate.
If DPS/DPS classes should have better DPS potential than DPS/Support, then Support/Support should, by the same rationale, be better at Support than DPS/Support.
Ergo the Paladin should be both optimal Healer, and optimal Tank, and that's clearly stupid.
And even if it weren't stupid, the DPS/DPS would need to SERIOUSLY outperform the DPS/Support for it to overcome the obvious benefit of having TWO Roles.
When in a dungeon, Tank classes should all be as viable as each other, all Healer classes should be as viable as each other and all DPS classes, should be as viable as each other. All that should be irrelevant of any other role they may have access to at other times.
To try to balance classes in the scenario of making DPS/DPS "more DPSy" than DPS/Support in order to exactly balance it against classes that are able to switch roles mid content is going to be nigh on impossible.
Meaning that either DPS/DPS or DPS/Support will be manifestly "Better" options for those same groups where lockouts for certain classes has long been an issue.
And the "Meta" group will be reborn.
Last boss on SoT should get role in Tokio Drift movie. When he initiate his fire hand or whatever its called ( that cone AoE of his)
he just slides across the arena. Not even mention that every other attack he aims at someone else. Whats the point of tank presence if despite being focus for him others are targeted.
Your browser does not support the video tag.
Other then that SoT suppose to be 8k IL dungeon, I'd like to see party with 8k that fights with that boss. I'm 14k and have to run around to stay alive, I;m a tank i should stand there and laugh at him atleast for some time and not die in 2 hits (that last hit was 110k, with stats reduction i have 140k on SoT). And its the lowest epic dungeon.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
> I don't know if anyone reported this, but will someone for the love of any deity please disable or lower down the sound of the negation enchantment. It is driving me bonkers.
It's not called "Negation" anymore.
They renamed it "Tinnitus".
It's funny, because causing an irritating buzzing sound in enemy ears would be a legtimate form of defense.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
You look like Wilson The Volleyball from Castaway.
Don't float away from us... it will make us cry.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
But I think there will always be some form of Meta, even if there were no choices and all DPS were exactly equal.
Someone will always strive for the combination that gives 0.1% improved efficiency.
Hell, even the Arcade version of Gauntlet had a Meta.
2 Valkyries (fore and aft tank), 1 Wizard (ranged DPS for mobs/CC) and 1 Warrior (main DPS)
Elves suck. Never take an Elf.
Yes, I'm obsessed with Gauntlet. Anyway...
The cure to the Meta is to make all compositions (not classes) so similar in efficiency that the majority of players will not care. Is DPS equity the way to do that?
Dunno. And don't think NW can be fine-tuned across DPS classes to such precision. Someone will always have a bit more DPS.
My point (and I do have one) is maybe get as close to the DPS equator as you can.
Those who want + 0.1% Meta will take 2 Valkyries.
The majority will not care and take that Elf.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
edit: my general stats seem to scale down fine it is only my weapon enchant that is just redicilous. Generaly it should give -800 crit resist per stack but only gives 137 and the poisen dmg wnt from 3.5 percent to 0.7. this seems like a big nerf. Might be intended tho most zones seem to be harder ut still managable. (same goes for dungeons even tho some of those seem to have gotten a litlle to hard.
If someone's playing with their four friends and they establish the Uber Meta, then great... good luck to them.
But the issue has for some time been those poor buggers waiting for someone who will welcome them into a pre-made into something like Castle Ravenloft, because they don't have enough friends online to form their own group, and they have failed the past 13 PUGs on CR because on every one of those PUGs 3 out of 5 members of the group were 13'100 IL and hoping they will be carried through.
When Mod 15 landed, my TR was about as welcome in those groups as a fungal infection. He'd always been the red headed step child next to the GWF, but at least he'd managed to get a few runs in.
But post M15... nuthin'.
And I understood WHY.
It's hard content, and can take a long time if you don't have the absolute optimum set up. And if you can GET the Meta, you TAKE it.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Or that if the Warlock sucks at healing they can just switch over to DPS and the DPS Cleric will happily jump into the healing role and everything will go so much better.
Never mind the rare triple-switch, where the Paladin sucks at tanking so they take over heals, the Cleric that was on heals moves into DPS, and the DPS Barbarian moves to tank and suddenly what was an ineffectual group in now an unstoppable force.
When you are trying to get a group together are you bypassing Wizards and Rangers and Rogues that want to join your group just because you are thinking "but if our tank sucks we need someone that can switch to tank" or "if our healer sucks we need someone that can switch to heals"? What do the tank and healer think about that?
If you have a Fighter and Barbarian on DPS in the group already and just need a tank, are you turning down Paladins that offer to join as a tank because they can not take over the DPS role if things go badly?
"No, sorry. We can't take them and get started because if you suck I want a replacement on-hand". Yeah, that should go over well.
Is keeping these strangers in a group so important? Keep in mind that these are strangers who have failed so badly at the job they signed up for that you have decided that the dungeon simply can not be completed with them in that role.
"Yeah, but they will be great at DPS and the other guy will be a great tank. I just know it!". But what if the others do not share that bright outlook?
What makes you think that the other players will be willing to stick it out as you conduct your role-swap experiments?
If someone queues up, messes up, and decides to switch roles, what incentive is there for the rest of the group that did not mess up to keep them around in the new role?
It's about building a group with 3 Tanks, 3 Healers and 4 DPS who can morph into various combinations thereof as the encounter demands.
Paladin, 2 from Barb/Fighter and 2 from Cleric/Warlock offers that group build.
If such versatility were allowed and players could drop in and out of the dungeon in order to switch Role, the "Other Three" would become that... the OTHER three... unsuitable for end game Meta due to lack of versatility.
There might be the real Gandalf, Grey Mouser and Robin Hood standing in PE "LFG - CR" and they would be deemed "PUG only."
Eg, in solo, OP and HR have rougly the same capabilities, while in say FBI, the HR gets lets say a 50% damage bonus, and the OP gets more HP or Defense or something, that wouls make the HR unable to solo due to not being tanky enough, and OP wouldnt be able to deal competitive damage, and solo content woulnt be so insanely hard for one specific class. And it would make classes actually need each other ro complete the group content.
Toodles.
I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
The biggest loser in terms of class builds I've seen so far is the vanilla Destroyer GWF - the similar Barbie build in M16 cannot do the same lazy old 'stand your ground' style of play with lifesteal, unstoppable and WMS. Do that in M16 (w/o lifesteal) and you will consistently get wiped by trash mobs, much less bosses.
> This is a random idea i just had while working, but hear me out @asterdahl - if youre finding it hard to balance out solo with group content - give role bonuses in group content that would make the class play right.
>
> Eg, in solo, OP and HR have rougly the same capabilities, while in say FBI, the HR gets lets say a 50% damage bonus, and the OP gets more HP or Defense or something, that wouls make the HR unable to solo due to not being tanky enough, and OP wouldnt be able to deal competitive damage, and solo content woulnt be so insanely hard for one specific class. And it would make classes actually need each other ro complete the group content.
>
> Toodles.
That's a clever idea.
I can imagine a queue with role bonuses.
Like a basketball team with 5 jerseys.
One DPS jersey. Put it on and get +X% Dps.
One tank jersey... gives +X% Defense and passive threat.
One healer jersey... +X% healing.
And two... i dunno... neutral?
Wild card?
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
> > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
> > This is a random idea i just had while working, but hear me out @asterdahl - if youre finding it hard to balance out solo with group content - give role bonuses in group content that would make the class play right.
> >
> > Eg, in solo, OP and HR have rougly the same capabilities, while in say FBI, the HR gets lets say a 50% damage bonus, and the OP gets more HP or Defense or something, that wouls make the HR unable to solo due to not being tanky enough, and OP wouldnt be able to deal competitive damage, and solo content woulnt be so insanely hard for one specific class. And it would make classes actually need each other ro complete the group content.
> >
> > Toodles.
>
> That's a clever idea.
> I can imagine a queue with role bonuses.
> Like a basketball team with 5 jerseys.
> One DPS jersey. Put it on and get +X% Dps.
> One tank jersey... gives +X% Defense and passive threat.
> One healer jersey... +X% healing.
> And two... i dunno... neutral?
> Wild card?
>
I imagine an all around would be better. That way you can run as many people of whatever roles you want
combatant's maneuver do not increase combat advantage damage when i look the character sheet ca is not affected.
The same with SW. Most of dungeon as DPS and switching to heal after wipe on last boss is also useful to have.
Other case is when 4 clerics join Folly as heals (I was there as OP tank
I'm strongly against role lock on.
Because that is where this all needs to start at.
If that is what is required to do a dungeon then just how long do you think people will be willing to wait for someone to put the "perfect" group together?
How much longer will they want to wait while someone leaves the group, switches roles, re-joins the group, re-enters the dungeon, and catches up to the group, only to repeat the process once that particular encounter is done (never mind that trading DPS for a second healer or tank will slow the fight down), and then repeat that however many times during the dungeon?
I think that you are looking at a small minority of people. The same people that won't want a (insert class here) in the group because "testing" showed that (insert different class here) was "better".
The majority of players will probably be quite content with forming a group and letting everyone just fill the roles that they signed up as, no matter their class.
And your solution? Giving DPS/DPS classes more DPS? That will only marginalize the dual-role DPSers in the eyes of that majority. A tank/DPSer or heal/DPSer would have no more luck finding groups in their DPS role than a Paladin would as a DPSer.
If the devs design a 5-player dungeon that requires a second tank or second healer then shame on them, but until such a thing comes along you created a solution searching for a problem.
Champions Online Advanced Forum Search