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My opinion for Cryptic Studio on Class Overhaul in mod 16.
kangkeok
Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
Since the developer are making a major overhaul to the class, here are something that I want to point out. I understand that developer design this game to be an arcade style game. So things have to be simple and complex D&D rules does not fit in. Thus the developer team have to come out with a set of rule of their own design so that this game can maintain its arcade playstyle. I can respect that since designing a new rule set for a game isn't easy and will need several trial and error in order to perfect it. With that said, I wanted to point out several problem that are in current mod so it does not carried into the next mod.
Although the developer seems to have figure several problem out on their own such as lifesteal & crit stat. Lifesteal had been known for destroying the reason for healing in this game for a very long time. Removing it is a wise choice. Then there is 100% cirtical hits. Its a mistake brought to the game by mod6. It makes the player happy but at the same time, render crit pointless. Its no longer called a dice when all the sides are painted "20". So with that, I'll give the developer credit for a job well done!
Even with those addresses, there are still things that concern me. Since this game are to be an arcade style, pretty much all class must be made viable so each of them gets to involve in the game. Currently there is a meta where few selected class with build that could provide heavy buffing potential to the party is picked by the community. That leaves several other class that are incapable of providing such buff to be left out on the shelves. In my opinion, this game shouldn't be focusing on buffs and debuff. Instead it should focus more on individual class strength so every class are unique and viable. Putting too much focus on buff & debuff is what causing the current meta. With the best buff hand picked by the player put together, the damage is amplified to a point of gamebreaking numbers and no other class is a necessity anymore.
With all that said, I suggest that group buffs that stacks should have their value cut down to a point that even with all possible buff stack up it does not amplified the damage more than 50% of its original output. For example, if without buff the damage is 3mil, then with all the best buff put together, the damage should not be boosted more than 4.5mil. With the buff tone down, those class that provide those buff will need a new role to fill to be viable again. Since lifesteal are gone and healing are back on business, I suggest that healing be brought back into the game.
I sincere hope that all class viability be brought back in the next mod with each class able to involve in the game and most importantly, each of them are able to boast their own special ability and uniqueness. I am most happy if this game could stress more on class uniqueness that could played out to be fun in group content rather than excite the player with power creep that could break the game further.
Although the developer seems to have figure several problem out on their own such as lifesteal & crit stat. Lifesteal had been known for destroying the reason for healing in this game for a very long time. Removing it is a wise choice. Then there is 100% cirtical hits. Its a mistake brought to the game by mod6. It makes the player happy but at the same time, render crit pointless. Its no longer called a dice when all the sides are painted "20". So with that, I'll give the developer credit for a job well done!
Even with those addresses, there are still things that concern me. Since this game are to be an arcade style, pretty much all class must be made viable so each of them gets to involve in the game. Currently there is a meta where few selected class with build that could provide heavy buffing potential to the party is picked by the community. That leaves several other class that are incapable of providing such buff to be left out on the shelves. In my opinion, this game shouldn't be focusing on buffs and debuff. Instead it should focus more on individual class strength so every class are unique and viable. Putting too much focus on buff & debuff is what causing the current meta. With the best buff hand picked by the player put together, the damage is amplified to a point of gamebreaking numbers and no other class is a necessity anymore.
With all that said, I suggest that group buffs that stacks should have their value cut down to a point that even with all possible buff stack up it does not amplified the damage more than 50% of its original output. For example, if without buff the damage is 3mil, then with all the best buff put together, the damage should not be boosted more than 4.5mil. With the buff tone down, those class that provide those buff will need a new role to fill to be viable again. Since lifesteal are gone and healing are back on business, I suggest that healing be brought back into the game.
I sincere hope that all class viability be brought back in the next mod with each class able to involve in the game and most importantly, each of them are able to boast their own special ability and uniqueness. I am most happy if this game could stress more on class uniqueness that could played out to be fun in group content rather than excite the player with power creep that could break the game further.
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Comments
too many words!
Wait until preview then you can actually comment on whats up..
I agree that buffs are a little dumb, with being able to delete bosses/enemies in the blink of an eye is a bit of a design oversight.
On the fairly reasonable assumption that buffs will be adjusted with a sledgehammer (see: Mod 15 TR nerfs, killing off TI, and so on for huge overadjustments), I do not think buffs should be completely gone. The dev blog on the class roles insinuates that buffs/debuffs and utility of different DPSers will be flat out gone ("some classes have developed clear advantages...") and I think that will be a problem.
Personal opinions on uniqueness aside, the problem with DPSers lacking decent utility is that you have 0 incentive to bring the DPS classes that aren't the top damage dealers.
Right now, I have a reason to bring a Combat HR or Renegade CW over bringing a pure DPS like GWF: the hybrid DPS offers group utility in exchange for having some slightly weaker raw damage output. If you completely get rid of buffs or differentiation of utility, what tangible reason am I offered to bring the DPS roles that aren't the best aside from fighting for my friends?
You might ask, well, "aren't the devs going to balance the DPS roles so that everyone deals roughly the same damage?"
To be honest, I do not think that will happen.
Unless you make every DPS role 100% identical to each other in terms of feats, passives, powers, and damage numbers, you will never obtain the coveted perfect balance that everyone clamors for. There will be some classes weaker and stronger relative to each other, and it doesn't help that there's fierce competition when there's 3 DPS slots to a team compared to 7 projected DPS roles (read: every class that isn't Paladin, and we don't know if Paladin has stronger DPS than any of the DPS roles...).
You could argue that the best bet would be to get most classes to be close to each other , but I highly doubt that we will see a close margin given the history of the team (see: SW since Mod 9, TR being hit or miss for many modules, the awkward rise of DPS GF in Mod 9, CW being relatively weak after Mod 5 until the Mod 15 buff, etc.). I would not mind an adjustment on buffs like this, but then you run into a problem where pretty much all DPS classes hit that cap from self buffs alone (even if buff values get adjusted ...gg GWF for only dealing damage because of self buffs). Yes to the bolded part.
But I worry that the devblogs on things like the feats and class roles imply that they really want everyone to do everything almost exactly the same.
I would lower all enchantments stat so that each rank enchantment only provides 30 towards the stat; this way a 2 stat enchantment would give 15 and a 3 stat enchantment would give 10. A R14 Black Ice would provide 140 in each state or a R14 Azure would provide 420.
I would remove all self buffs from classes and simply raise base damage. No more dagger buff for GWF, etc...
I would add some type of synergy between damage dealing classes. This is where one player may add acid to the target and another player uses some type of fire damage that causes additional damage. Something along those lines.
There is so much that could be done but it is already done and being tested. For those of us not in the know, we will have to wait and see what changed in the game and if we like it or not.
Have to agree with mebengalsfan, power sharing has to go. But, group or self buff doesn't need to be gone. They just need to be tone down a lot. Probably down to effectiveness around 5% for non stacking buff and 1-2% for stacking buff. Although I prefer they redesign the group buff so they wont stack by having each buffing a different stat.
As for the absence of life steal, I don't think its a problem at all. In fact, I feel it has more benefit to the game. Player can still survive by healing themselves with pots. This add the challenge to solo combat. Since no more easy mode life steal, player need to learn to time their pots cooldown. It also creates gold sink since player are more rely on pots and it encourage player to party up especially with a personal healer just to saves up gold from buy pots.
Regarding class uniqueness, there are many ways to do it. Developer just need to crack their brains out. There are many arcade style game out there that has done a great job in presenting their class uniqueness. Dragon Nest during its peak time is a great example. Because of the uniqueness and well balanced class, people are enjoying both PVE and PVP. Especially their pvp, Its a great success as its highly competitive and addictive. You can check it out on utube. They even have PVP tournament event just because of their level of competitiveness are very high with each class having their own pro and cons. When u have a game that involve with Esport, u can imagine how lucrative the business can be.
Anyway, its all up to the developer to decide their game direction. I m sure we all want this game to be as popular as League of Legend. The potential is there, its just that how they are gonna execute it.
1. If the devs manage to succeed in the "all dps equal" then groups will simply pick the highest IL since the gear will be the determining factor for damage output (higher and/or better gears = more damage if everything else is the same). All things being equal, why should one take a 15k gwf when they can take a 16k CW. Why take a 16K cw when they can take a 18k SW and so on and so forth.
2. If the classes are not equal and we only have damage to show for (no buffs/utility), then groups will simply pick 3 of the top 2 dps classes if not only one class. IF for example CW and SW do more damage and the rest don't, why should one pick any other class?.
Of course friends and guilds are excluded, but the general trend in the LFG will probably be like one of the above.
I think going to much on the extreme either on one side (too much buff) or the other (no buff at all) is equally bad in the long run. Of course time will tell.
At wills are pathetic, Ap generation is through the roof and dailies are spammed continuosly to carry you through content, since they are so much stronger than everything else now.
Encounter also feel somewhat satisfying yes, but they are too "scarce" now, with cooldowns being so long, and the fact that we can still slot only 3... the combat feels slower in pace and clunkier (your goal is pretty much to get AP and wipe everything with a daily?) maybe they should allow us to slot 4 encounters, and cooldowns could use a 25% reduction all across the board...
It is based on RNG which is a gambling mechanic. Brain releases dopamine in anticipation of a reward. Reward is a crit. Everyone now training their brains to embrace a gambling addiction. 100% crit chance = less chance of psychological damage.
As a doctor I can say this change is very unhealthy.
I use Gear/Enchants to stay around 14k.
90% of players above approx~ 14.5k are terrible at the game and have little to no knowledge of how their Class works. They rely entirely on 15k being the point at which all content becomes a complete joke so they can brute force their way through everything.
LS only exists because we need it to counter what the Devs. had to design the enemies around to counter the fact we have LS, the same goes for Recovery. Without it they are able to re-balance the enemies, removing much of the over inflated strength they required to deal with us in our current state.
Survival in Mod16 will be mostly about how well you know and understand your Class and less on how overgeared you are, gear will no longer save terrible players and amidst the hundreds of people complaining on these forums, some born without patience, some just confused and others born to make everyone else miserable you can see the terrified players who know that being overgeared was the only thing saving them, if you know where to look and it is those people who most want to oppose the changes.
If you die too often you do not have fun. If you lower the defence of the classes making and at the same time the enemies more damaging then you are going to die too often. Then the fun is gone and normal people will leave the game.
D&D rules can easly be applied to an online game. DDO ( Dungeons and Dragons Online ) is a proof of it.
This making up of a new system ( wich in fact is not new.. more like a version of 'n' existing and outdated game systems ) is a delirium made by peopel that dont really understand D%D and only want to profit. Nothing else.
As reference to the video below, start from 2:27 for the explanation.
The game design went from RPGMMO to loot shooter fantasy type game but with a horrible design for combat.
I asked for a revamp, not an overhaul where Cryptic killed character customization and has made combat tedious, slow, and boring.
Since this game tends to be buggy with each update, I can't expect anything less than a bug riddled mod 16. IMO, this update may not kill the game but you will see probably the biggest exist of players in the game history. Probably more people leaving in mod 16 than what happened during the mod 6 era.
The thing is, it wasn't actually simple to get 100% crit chance and some classes had to do more work to get it. You needed things it wasn't like you could just step into 100% chance.
These fixes are tossed in because the game is fundamentally broken. The thing is they have taken it to the extreme meaning now progress is not even progress, its an illusion. IF they know players have 50% crit they can just grant a mob 50% awareness and that causes all characters to revert back to the baseline of 5% crit chance. It becomes silly. It would be like I said before, stepping into a chess match between two players and telling one of them they are not allowed to take any pawns, they must work around them. Its so arbitrary that it becomes obviously static.
Whats the point in getting a mount or companion that gives you 50% crit chance if it ultimately gets reduced to 5% since that is the minimum you can be reduced to? Might as well just give every character a static 5%, no higher, no lower. Oh wait then they can't sell you a mount or companion that gives crit chance. It becomes a bait and switch tactic where they can hide the fact that using that companion does nothing for you except on trash mobs that can be easily killed anyways without needing 50% crit chance.
By using this tactic you are taking a way player incentive to excel.. There is no goal to achieve if 50% is the arbitrary cap. Its no longer a game at that point, well not an RPG. It just becomes a static output under the illusion that you have some ability to be more than the average player. No, you will no longer be able to excel over other players in any way.
They basically want to make it so a 90 year old grandmother who cares nothing for the game can run the same content as a veteran player. Part of the fun was having the ability to try out different builds but with this paper and plastic choices it makes the choices so limited and that the feats really don't add anything significant that you are equal to a player who made all the wrong feat choices.
They might as well just get rid of all the feats and boons and just give static additions to the character at this point. Because they are just hiding this fact from the players anyways. Its giving the impression that you are actually gaining something when those gains are so little you really are no different than you were.
They will further hide this by level scaling through the content. Its not a solution, its just and overly controlled system at this point.
Like a loot shooter this game in cramming a bunch stats on our gear; making so we really have no decision on the gear we use as the higher level gear has much higher stats making that gear almost mandatory for us. Most gear does contain better stats but with how the game was setup in prior mods you may forgo some pieces of gear for a specific bonus; looking at you Enduring boots or the dusk set for the extra power. With how the game is moving forward in mod 16, best way to ensure you can do any content, simply get the highest level piece of gear you can to ensure you get the best stats. Kinda stupid and silly but that is the direction of the game in mod 16.
I spoken enough about my views on mod 16. Hopefully the devs listen to us as players and bring some character customization back into the game, because right now as it is in mod 16 it is pathetic and well my dog can figure it out.
at the very least currently on live there needs to be timing and having knowledge etc to be perfect at playing ur class but once mod 16 goes live all that is out of the window because of instead of waiting for right moment to execute your rotation u just press an encounter and wait for cooldown
it's true recovery wasn't perfect thing but it opened way to playstyles etc
i know devs don't like hearing this but they are going the wrong way about balance and nerfing everything won't help much this is becoming more of an obsolete MMO just like any other junk out there