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My opinion for Cryptic Studio on Class Overhaul in mod 16.

kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User
edited February 26 in PvE Discussion
Since the developer are making a major overhaul to the class, here are something that I want to point out. I understand that developer design this game to be an arcade style game. So things have to be simple and complex D&D rules does not fit in. Thus the developer team have to come out with a set of rule of their own design so that this game can maintain its arcade playstyle. I can respect that since designing a new rule set for a game isn't easy and will need several trial and error in order to perfect it. With that said, I wanted to point out several problem that are in current mod so it does not carried into the next mod.

Although the developer seems to have figure several problem out on their own such as lifesteal & crit stat. Lifesteal had been known for destroying the reason for healing in this game for a very long time. Removing it is a wise choice. Then there is 100% cirtical hits. Its a mistake brought to the game by mod6. It makes the player happy but at the same time, render crit pointless. Its no longer called a dice when all the sides are painted "20". So with that, I'll give the developer credit for a job well done!

Even with those addresses, there are still things that concern me. Since this game are to be an arcade style, pretty much all class must be made viable so each of them gets to involve in the game. Currently there is a meta where few selected class with build that could provide heavy buffing potential to the party is picked by the community. That leaves several other class that are incapable of providing such buff to be left out on the shelves. In my opinion, this game shouldn't be focusing on buffs and debuff. Instead it should focus more on individual class strength so every class are unique and viable. Putting too much focus on buff & debuff is what causing the current meta. With the best buff hand picked by the player put together, the damage is amplified to a point of gamebreaking numbers and no other class is a necessity anymore.

With all that said, I suggest that group buffs that stacks should have their value cut down to a point that even with all possible buff stack up it does not amplified the damage more than 50% of its original output. For example, if without buff the damage is 3mil, then with all the best buff put together, the damage should not be boosted more than 4.5mil. With the buff tone down, those class that provide those buff will need a new role to fill to be viable again. Since lifesteal are gone and healing are back on business, I suggest that healing be brought back into the game.

I sincere hope that all class viability be brought back in the next mod with each class able to involve in the game and most importantly, each of them are able to boast their own special ability and uniqueness. I am most happy if this game could stress more on class uniqueness that could played out to be fun in group content rather than excite the player with power creep that could break the game further.

Comments

  • silverkeltsilverkelt Posts: 4,129Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    wall of text..

    too many words!

    Wait until preview then you can actually comment on whats up..
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 1,955Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    kangkeok said:


    Although the developer seems to have figure several problem out on their own such as lifesteal & crit stat. Lifesteal had been known for destroying the reason for healing in this game for a very long time. Removing it is a wise choice. Then there is 100% cirtical hits. Its a mistake brought to the game by mod6. It makes the player happy but at the same time, render crit pointless. Its no longer called a dice when all the sides are painted "20". So with that, I'll give the developer credit for a job well done!

    Agreed with both accounts on broken Lifesteal and devalued Critical hits, though I can't say I agree with the way Lifesteal was handled (we'll have to see if the replacement for Lifesteal is sufficient enough too keep you healthy during solo stuff).
    kangkeok said:


    Even with those addresses, there are still things that concern me. Since this game are to be an arcade style, pretty much all class must be made viable so each of them gets to involve in the game. Currently there is a meta where few selected class with build that could provide heavy buffing potential to the party is picked by the community. That leaves several other class that are incapable of providing such buff to be left out on the shelves. In my opinion, this game shouldn't be focusing on buffs and debuff. Instead it should focus more on individual class strength so every class are unique and viable. Putting too much focus on buff & debuff is what causing the current meta. With the best buff hand picked by the player put together, the damage is amplified to a point of gamebreaking numbers and no other class is a necessity anymore.

    This I half agree with and half disagree with.

    I agree that buffs are a little dumb, with being able to delete bosses/enemies in the blink of an eye is a bit of a design oversight.

    On the fairly reasonable assumption that buffs will be adjusted with a sledgehammer (see: Mod 15 TR nerfs, killing off TI, and so on for huge overadjustments), I do not think buffs should be completely gone. The dev blog on the class roles insinuates that buffs/debuffs and utility of different DPSers will be flat out gone ("some classes have developed clear advantages...") and I think that will be a problem.

    Personal opinions on uniqueness aside, the problem with DPSers lacking decent utility is that you have 0 incentive to bring the DPS classes that aren't the top damage dealers.

    Right now, I have a reason to bring a Combat HR or Renegade CW over bringing a pure DPS like GWF: the hybrid DPS offers group utility in exchange for having some slightly weaker raw damage output. If you completely get rid of buffs or differentiation of utility, what tangible reason am I offered to bring the DPS roles that aren't the best aside from fighting for my friends?

    You might ask, well, "aren't the devs going to balance the DPS roles so that everyone deals roughly the same damage?"

    To be honest, I do not think that will happen.

    Unless you make every DPS role 100% identical to each other in terms of feats, passives, powers, and damage numbers, you will never obtain the coveted perfect balance that everyone clamors for. There will be some classes weaker and stronger relative to each other, and it doesn't help that there's fierce competition when there's 3 DPS slots to a team compared to 7 projected DPS roles (read: every class that isn't Paladin, and we don't know if Paladin has stronger DPS than any of the DPS roles...).

    You could argue that the best bet would be to get most classes to be close to each other , but I highly doubt that we will see a close margin given the history of the team (see: SW since Mod 9, TR being hit or miss for many modules, the awkward rise of DPS GF in Mod 9, CW being relatively weak after Mod 5 until the Mod 15 buff, etc.).
    kangkeok said:


    With all that said, I suggest that group buffs that stacks should have their value cut down to a point that even with all possible buff stack up it does not amplified the damage more than 50% of its original output. For example, if without buff the damage is 3mil, then with all the best buff put together, the damage should not be boosted more than 4.5mil. With the buff tone down, those class that provide those buff will need a new role to fill to be viable again. Since lifesteal are gone and healing are back on business, I suggest that healing be brought back into the game.

    I would not mind an adjustment on buffs like this, but then you run into a problem where pretty much all DPS classes hit that cap from self buffs alone (even if buff values get adjusted ...gg GWF for only dealing damage because of self buffs).
    kangkeok said:


    I sincere hope that all class viability be brought back in the next mod with each class able to involve in the game and most importantly, each of them are able to boast their own special ability and uniqueness. I am most happy if this game could stress more on class uniqueness that could played out to be fun in group content rather than excite the player with power creep that could break the game further.

    Yes to the bolded part.

    But I worry that the devblogs on things like the feats and class roles imply that they really want everyone to do everything almost exactly the same.

  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,521Member Arc User
    If the devs are smart they would remove buffing from damage dealer roles completely. Tanks and healer buffing should be reduced to 50% of its current value. I would also remove power sharing from the game. I would lower bonding stat sharing to around 125% with 3 R14.

    I would lower all enchantments stat so that each rank enchantment only provides 30 towards the stat; this way a 2 stat enchantment would give 15 and a 3 stat enchantment would give 10. A R14 Black Ice would provide 140 in each state or a R14 Azure would provide 420.

    I would remove all self buffs from classes and simply raise base damage. No more dagger buff for GWF, etc...

    I would add some type of synergy between damage dealing classes. This is where one player may add acid to the target and another player uses some type of fire damage that causes additional damage. Something along those lines.

    There is so much that could be done but it is already done and being tested. For those of us not in the know, we will have to wait and see what changed in the game and if we like it or not.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User
    You guys give a pretty good insight. However I think we should give the developer another chance to proof to us. What they wrote in the blog truly seem they a want to end the current imbalance meta.

    Have to agree with mebengalsfan, power sharing has to go. But, group or self buff doesn't need to be gone. They just need to be tone down a lot. Probably down to effectiveness around 5% for non stacking buff and 1-2% for stacking buff. Although I prefer they redesign the group buff so they wont stack by having each buffing a different stat.

    As for the absence of life steal, I don't think its a problem at all. In fact, I feel it has more benefit to the game. Player can still survive by healing themselves with pots. This add the challenge to solo combat. Since no more easy mode life steal, player need to learn to time their pots cooldown. It also creates gold sink since player are more rely on pots and it encourage player to party up especially with a personal healer just to saves up gold from buy pots.

    Regarding class uniqueness, there are many ways to do it. Developer just need to crack their brains out. There are many arcade style game out there that has done a great job in presenting their class uniqueness. Dragon Nest during its peak time is a great example. Because of the uniqueness and well balanced class, people are enjoying both PVE and PVP. Especially their pvp, Its a great success as its highly competitive and addictive. You can check it out on utube. They even have PVP tournament event just because of their level of competitiveness are very high with each class having their own pro and cons. When u have a game that involve with Esport, u can imagine how lucrative the business can be.

    Anyway, its all up to the developer to decide their game direction. I m sure we all want this game to be as popular as League of Legend. The potential is there, its just that how they are gonna execute it.


  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Posts: 66Member Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    Although the developer seems to have figure several problem out on their own such as lifesteal & crit stat. Lifesteal had been known for destroying the reason for healing in this game for a very long time. Removing it is a wise choice. Then there is 100% cirtical hits. Its a mistake brought to the game by mod6. It makes the player happy but at the same time, render crit pointless. Its no longer called a dice when all the sides are painted "20". So with that, I'll give the developer credit for a job well done!

    Yes, they figured out a problem. But did they found a good solution? 40 - 50% critical chance doesn't feel satisfying. I hope somehow we can build for critical chance of exceeding 50%, like feats or weapon enchantments having an additional 5 - 10% chance. The cap on stats seems reasonable. Not a fan of opposing rolls, since their values are usually hidden from players without using tools and/or hours of testing (e.g. you need 30k crit stat against enemies in dungeon a for 50% crit chance and 50k crit stat against enemies in dungeon b for the same 50% chance).

  • apollo#5199 apollo Posts: 1Member Arc User
    edited February 28
    There is a fundamental flaw inherited in the "Only dps" system that I think a lot of people overlooked.

    1. If the devs manage to succeed in the "all dps equal" then groups will simply pick the highest IL since the gear will be the determining factor for damage output (higher and/or better gears = more damage if everything else is the same). All things being equal, why should one take a 15k gwf when they can take a 16k CW. Why take a 16K cw when they can take a 18k SW and so on and so forth.

    2. If the classes are not equal and we only have damage to show for (no buffs/utility), then groups will simply pick 3 of the top 2 dps classes if not only one class. IF for example CW and SW do more damage and the rest don't, why should one pick any other class?.

    Of course friends and guilds are excluded, but the general trend in the LFG will probably be like one of the above.

    I think going to much on the extreme either on one side (too much buff) or the other (no buff at all) is equally bad in the long run. Of course time will tell.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User
    edited February 28

    kangkeok said:

    Although the developer seems to have figure several problem out on their own such as lifesteal & crit stat. Lifesteal had been known for destroying the reason for healing in this game for a very long time. Removing it is a wise choice. Then there is 100% cirtical hits. Its a mistake brought to the game by mod6. It makes the player happy but at the same time, render crit pointless. Its no longer called a dice when all the sides are painted "20". So with that, I'll give the developer credit for a job well done!

    Yes, they figured out a problem. But did they found a good solution? 40 - 50% critical chance doesn't feel satisfying. I hope somehow we can build for critical chance of exceeding 50%, like feats or weapon enchantments having an additional 5 - 10% chance. The cap on stats seems reasonable. Not a fan of opposing rolls, since their values are usually hidden from players without using tools and/or hours of testing (e.g. you need 30k crit stat against enemies in dungeon a for 50% crit chance and 50k crit stat against enemies in dungeon b for the same 50% chance).

    Yeah..lame as it may seem, I think they are doing it for power creep. With each mod coming up, they are planning to gives better gear with better stat and harder monster. This system are just to keep the crit in check with each mod they release. Though the down side to this is player stat are going to be larger and larger with each passing mod with the crit % remain the same. As for build wise, I think the developer could do that by not giving stat through feats or boon but instead giving straight out % crit. I.E. instead of giving like + 400crit in a boon, they should give like + 1% crit.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User

    There is a fundamental flaw inherited in the "Only dps" system that I think a lot of people overlooked.

    1. If the devs manage to succeed in the "all dps equal" then groups will simply pick the highest IL since the gear will be the determining factor for damage output (higher and/or better gears = more damage if everything else is the same). All things being equal, why should one take a 15k gwf when they can take a 16k CW. Why take a 16K cw when they can take a 18k SW and so on and so forth.

    2. If the classes are not equal and we only have damage to show for (no buffs/utility), then groups will simply pick 3 of the top 2 dps classes if not only one class. IF for example CW and SW do more damage and the rest don't, why should one pick any other class?.

    Of course friends and guilds are excluded, but the general trend in the LFG will probably be like one of the above.

    I think going to much on the extreme either on one side (too much buff) or the other (no buff at all) is equally bad in the long run. Of course time will tell.

    Frankly, I would rather the community to pick based on gear level rather than based on class. It just isn't fair for those player that put in lots of time, money and effort into their class, only to be out pick by a DC that just hit level cap 5min ago. Also, picking player based on gear are a common thing in MMO. Picking player based on class might signify class balance issue or some exploit is going on. Either way, both are involve in broken powers. IMO class shouldn't get obsolete but gear should.
  • klangeddinklangeddin Posts: 862Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 2
    Just came from the test server, and quite frankly it does not look good.
    At wills are pathetic, Ap generation is through the roof and dailies are spammed continuosly to carry you through content, since they are so much stronger than everything else now.
    Encounter also feel somewhat satisfying yes, but they are too "scarce" now, with cooldowns being so long, and the fact that we can still slot only 3... the combat feels slower in pace and clunkier (your goal is pretty much to get AP and wipe everything with a daily?) maybe they should allow us to slot 4 encounters, and cooldowns could use a 25% reduction all across the board...
  • zachcampbell85zachcampbell85 Posts: 20Member Arc User
    The issue with the concept of a crit:
    It is based on RNG which is a gambling mechanic. Brain releases dopamine in anticipation of a reward. Reward is a crit. Everyone now training their brains to embrace a gambling addiction. 100% crit chance = less chance of psychological damage.
    As a doctor I can say this change is very unhealthy.
  • barbie#2808 barbie Posts: 77Member Arc User
    edited March 6
    I do think that the changes are overall good, the way the classes were revamped has been done was to improve and also break the limitation that the game set for each class, it puts alot of power into the individual and then the individual will contribute to the group. Again the holy trinity is quite spectacular, but thats not all of it, i do hope that this is just phase 1, and i am just wanting a phase 2 and a phase 3.
    Like you said currently on Live the game is all about buffs 4x support and 1x DPS, that is true, and also some classes like @rjc9000 mentioned are bringing more to the group besides buffs, they bring DPS = hybrid, pretty much all of these are things that aren't controlled to the whole spectrum of the class balance, so here is what i think or things will play out, or should play out on the bigger picture of the game.

    First Phase:
    1. Revamping the classes and creating roles for the content: TANK, HEALER and DPS.
    currently this phase isn't finished as there are so many things to tweak on the classes, like rjc mentioned achieving a proper equality wouldn't be possible, but the distance will be closer than ever, developers can tweak powers based on their performance : magnitude, cooldown, aoe (cone, 180 degree, straight line) , single target and added effect (bonuses of those powers) , the final result might have some classes perform better as DPS, some won't, but ofc this can be regarding the content in which they are facing, maybe the content isn't that friendly with their Range style or with their Melee style, anyway point is that i belive a final state will still be better than mod 15 pile of buff HAMSTER.

    2. Stats and Mechanics
    Currently i do not agree with how the stats are handled, these stats should be focused more on the Roles, rather as treating everything the same, because that is the point of these changes, to create diversity, when they set up a high cap of crit 50% and deflect 50%, then you clearly do not hv room to customize or use your tank build at it's highest, not to mention the downside of a low cap set at 0% meaning that some roles will never crit, or they will never deflect, or they will never benefit over combat advantage, now i wrote something in the official feedback thread, which i will repost it here:


    Correct me if I am wrong, but that isn't the best way to "max out". I am not trying to be pessimistic here, I truly enjoy Mod 16 and am looking forward to it. I am going to ignore the defensive ratings as I am focused on "maxing out" a DPS character's potential here. Please help me understand if there is something I am missing.

    Min/maxing your character is not the same as maxing out the effectiveness of a stat.

    My post was in response to someone discussing maxing out the potential of each rating, those are the values to achieve that. That doesn't suggest how someone should build out their character to maximize the effectiveness for their play style.
    Hello, i had my post burried in this thread and haven't been replied to, and another one that got deleted by the spam filter cause i edited too fast. Anyway i will take the opportunity to repeat it:

    These fundamental mechanics like Deflect, Combat Advantage, Critical, aswell as the counter parts of them, in some builds and within some players will not ever be seen in lvl 80 content. I think adding a high cap isn't bad, but the way that you guys want to implement this is for everyone to have the same high cap and 0% low cap, so let's add a compromise on this matter shall we.

    Why not use different high caps and add aswell low caps based on roles: TANK, DPS and Healer.

    Think of a Hexagonal Skill Graph and at each corner you have the Offensive stats, and also think of another Herxagonal Skill Graph for Defensive stats, now whenever you would choose to play one of the 3 roles: Tank, Healer or DPS, they will move towards the purpose of your Role.
    The point of a low cap is to not make some Mechanics worthless, even if some roles will benefit just a little bit out of it, but atleast they will. For example a low cap for TANKS on offensive stats can be something like
    5% combat advantage
    10% Critical Chance
    What would mean that if they want to stack above 5% combat advantage, all they have to do is stack Combat Advantage, like having 0 stats in combat advantage will do nothing for them, but gettin 2.500 combat advantage then they will get the 5%, what this means that the first 2.500 combat advantage can't be brought to 0% by the opposint stat Awarness of the Mob, so let's say that the TANK will have up to 18.000 combat advantage and the enemy has 24.000 Awarness, the TANK will not be brought down to 0%, but down to 5%, and this is how you can set up the low caps based on Roles. I think it's way better than making a overall 50% crit chance high cap and 50% Deflect chance high cap, and some roles will never benefit over the CORE MECHANICS of the game.

    Second Phase:
    ADDing a Third and Fourth Role
    Buffs to increase damage, and decrease the incoming damage, and CONTROL , while both of them are more or less a subcategory of TANKing, these are needed to create more diversity, thats why maybe in the future, when the current 3 roles will feel better, we can have them released as Roles and be used as a 3rd Path or 4th Path for some Classes. The game needed the whole class revamp overhaul, because there needed to be some limitations placed for each class, currently in mod 15 in both content PVP and PvE you have classes that do to many things at most, the abberation is seen mostly in PvP when 2 different classes are placed to fight against eachother, you have classes that are supposed to be DPS and feel tankier than the tank. So module 16 changes are taking that away, are normalizing the system, and it's trying to grow. Neverwinter needs growth and these phases are ultimately needed and they are tied up togheter

    Third Phase:
    Released Content, the whole content needs to be released to consider the class ROLES, from Dungeons to PVP maps, they need to make all of the roles to feel needed, this is the only way to achieve and make the game feel good and even better than before, will everyone accept this? i pretty sure they will, like with everything they need time to adjust, and once they see the new system is better than the old one, they will enjoy PvE and PVP again.

  • tholthertholther Posts: 103Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I wonder what kind of gear have those who say that it is a good thing lifesteal is going away. Speaking for myself and many others I spoke with 11-13 k IL, taking lifesteal away is going to make really very hard to do the campaigns. Your only argument is that this change is good for the Healing aspect of the game but you forget that when you are doing campaign quests you normally go solo. So you DON'T have a healer with you to heal you and save you. The potions won't help either.
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 3,294Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    If you haven't, load up preview and take a look around. Do the test drive. I've run the new campaign on my CW. Only died a few times.
    But what a fool believes, he sees
    No wise man has the power to reason away

    With your shield or on it.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User
    tholther said:

    I wonder what kind of gear have those who say that it is a good thing lifesteal is going away. Speaking for myself and many others I spoke with 11-13 k IL, taking lifesteal away is going to make really very hard to do the campaigns. Your only argument is that this change is good for the Healing aspect of the game but you forget that when you are doing campaign quests you normally go solo. So you DON'T have a healer with you to heal you and save you. The potions won't help either.

    I played with my old 9k toon with elven raid gear and I can say losing lifesteal isn't a big deal and I rarely use any pots. I think it really comes down to ones playstyle. With the new mod, u need to have at least 1 cc or defense encounter on your slot. Face tanking red zone is no longer an option. Healing companion sometimes help too if u are still struggling.
  • tgwolftgwolf Posts: 209Member Arc User
    tholther said:

    I wonder what kind of gear have those who say that it is a good thing lifesteal is going away. Speaking for myself and many others I spoke with 11-13 k IL, taking lifesteal away is going to make really very hard to do the campaigns. Your only argument is that this change is good for the Healing aspect of the game but you forget that when you are doing campaign quests you normally go solo. So you DON'T have a healer with you to heal you and save you. The potions won't help either.

    I have the Gear/Enchants to be 17k+.

    I use Gear/Enchants to stay around 14k.

    90% of players above approx~ 14.5k are terrible at the game and have little to no knowledge of how their Class works. They rely entirely on 15k being the point at which all content becomes a complete joke so they can brute force their way through everything.

    LS only exists because we need it to counter what the Devs. had to design the enemies around to counter the fact we have LS, the same goes for Recovery. Without it they are able to re-balance the enemies, removing much of the over inflated strength they required to deal with us in our current state.

    Survival in Mod16 will be mostly about how well you know and understand your Class and less on how overgeared you are, gear will no longer save terrible players and amidst the hundreds of people complaining on these forums, some born without patience, some just confused and others born to make everyone else miserable you can see the terrified players who know that being overgeared was the only thing saving them, if you know where to look and it is those people who most want to oppose the changes.

  • tholthertholther Posts: 103Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Some people think this game has to be played like a science. Making a study of it like you were at school. Well, you are wrong. The majority of the players do not play games to break their heads on them. They play for FUN. And if they don't like it then they leave, that easy.
    If you die too often you do not have fun. If you lower the defence of the classes making and at the same time the enemies more damaging then you are going to die too often. Then the fun is gone and normal people will leave the game.
  • draugkirdraugkir Posts: 42Member Arc User
    Youre wrong.
    D&D rules can easly be applied to an online game. DDO ( Dungeons and Dragons Online ) is a proof of it.

    This making up of a new system ( wich in fact is not new.. more like a version of 'n' existing and outdated game systems ) is a delirium made by peopel that dont really understand D%D and only want to profit. Nothing else.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User
    edited March 8
    draugkir said:

    Youre wrong.
    D&D rules can easly be applied to an online game. DDO ( Dungeons and Dragons Online ) is a proof of it.

    This making up of a new system ( wich in fact is not new.. more like a version of 'n' existing and outdated game systems ) is a delirium made by peopel that dont really understand D%D and only want to profit. Nothing else.

    U don't seem to understand. It isn't about the possibility of implementing D&D rules. Its about the choice of genre the developer want this game to be. They want it to be an action MMO and not a more complex RPG MMO like DDO. That's why u only have few button to press in NWO to suit their theme and not a screen full of toolbar to press like DDO.

    As reference to the video below, start from 2:27 for the explanation.
    Post edited by kangkeok on
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,632Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 8
    tholther said:

    Some people think this game has to be played like a science. Making a study of it like you were at school. Well, you are wrong. The majority of the players do not play games to break their heads on them. They play for FUN. And if they don't like it then they leave, that easy.

    What if you find that fun?
    tholther said:


    If you die too often you do not have fun. If you lower the defence of the classes making and at the same time the enemies more damaging then you are going to die too often. Then the fun is gone and normal people will leave the game.

    Some people like hard content that challenges them too. Here is a page from a game I played quite a bit of and enjoyed recently, see their definition of fun.
    Post edited by thefabricant on
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,521Member Arc User
    After testing out the changes the combat is slow, tedious, boring and no longer fun. Character customization has greatly been reduced and it is worst than some loot shooters now for customization.

    The game design went from RPGMMO to loot shooter fantasy type game but with a horrible design for combat.

    I asked for a revamp, not an overhaul where Cryptic killed character customization and has made combat tedious, slow, and boring.

  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User

    After testing out the changes the combat is slow, tedious, boring and no longer fun. Character customization has greatly been reduced and it is worst than some loot shooters now for customization.

    The game design went from RPGMMO to loot shooter fantasy type game but with a horrible design for combat.

    I asked for a revamp, not an overhaul where Cryptic killed character customization and has made combat tedious, slow, and boring.

    I m only strongly disagree with the developer on simplification of character creation. I'm fine with the other though, as long as the dev keep the balance between each role and make sure everyone gets to play.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,521Member Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    After testing out the changes the combat is slow, tedious, boring and no longer fun. Character customization has greatly been reduced and it is worst than some loot shooters now for customization.

    The game design went from RPGMMO to loot shooter fantasy type game but with a horrible design for combat.

    I asked for a revamp, not an overhaul where Cryptic killed character customization and has made combat tedious, slow, and boring.

    I m only strongly disagree with the developer on simplification of character creation. I'm fine with the other though, as long as the dev keep the balance between each role and make sure everyone gets to play.
    Even with the game being simplified balance is still not there. We actually had better balance in mod 15 than what is on preview. Devs need much more time to iron out the many bugs and issues. However, I think what we see in preview will make it to live and it will get patched within a week of launch. Than followed by other patches within another couple weeks. It will take 6 months to a full year after its launch to even get the game to be reasonable to what we now see in mod 15.

    Since this game tends to be buggy with each update, I can't expect anything less than a bug riddled mod 16. IMO, this update may not kill the game but you will see probably the biggest exist of players in the game history. Probably more people leaving in mod 16 than what happened during the mod 6 era.

  • kangkeokkangkeok Posts: 830Member Arc User

    kangkeok said:

    After testing out the changes the combat is slow, tedious, boring and no longer fun. Character customization has greatly been reduced and it is worst than some loot shooters now for customization.

    The game design went from RPGMMO to loot shooter fantasy type game but with a horrible design for combat.

    I asked for a revamp, not an overhaul where Cryptic killed character customization and has made combat tedious, slow, and boring.

    I m only strongly disagree with the developer on simplification of character creation. I'm fine with the other though, as long as the dev keep the balance between each role and make sure everyone gets to play.
    Even with the game being simplified balance is still not there. We actually had better balance in mod 15 than what is on preview. Devs need much more time to iron out the many bugs and issues. However, I think what we see in preview will make it to live and it will get patched within a week of launch. Than followed by other patches within another couple weeks. It will take 6 months to a full year after its launch to even get the game to be reasonable to what we now see in mod 15.

    Since this game tends to be buggy with each update, I can't expect anything less than a bug riddled mod 16. IMO, this update may not kill the game but you will see probably the biggest exist of players in the game history. Probably more people leaving in mod 16 than what happened during the mod 6 era.

    I prefer to leave my judgement to the end results so I can wait. Though I have to disagree that we have better balance in mod 15. Even at its crude phase, mod16 shows more potential in term of balance than mod 15. At least the current broken meta is gone that's for sure and its definitely the main reason I look forward in mod16.
  • krumple01krumple01 Posts: 352Member Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    With all that said, I suggest that group buffs that stacks should have their value cut down to a point that even with all possible buff stack up it does not amplified the damage more than 50% of its original output.

    You have just made an arbitrary restraint on the game. Its like if you stepped into a chess match and told the players they can only take 3 pawns and that's it. Its an arbitrary rule attempting to "fix" what you perceive to be broken. Why 50%, why not just make it 25% or 10% instead?

    The thing is, it wasn't actually simple to get 100% crit chance and some classes had to do more work to get it. You needed things it wasn't like you could just step into 100% chance.

    These fixes are tossed in because the game is fundamentally broken. The thing is they have taken it to the extreme meaning now progress is not even progress, its an illusion. IF they know players have 50% crit they can just grant a mob 50% awareness and that causes all characters to revert back to the baseline of 5% crit chance. It becomes silly. It would be like I said before, stepping into a chess match between two players and telling one of them they are not allowed to take any pawns, they must work around them. Its so arbitrary that it becomes obviously static.

    Whats the point in getting a mount or companion that gives you 50% crit chance if it ultimately gets reduced to 5% since that is the minimum you can be reduced to? Might as well just give every character a static 5%, no higher, no lower. Oh wait then they can't sell you a mount or companion that gives crit chance. It becomes a bait and switch tactic where they can hide the fact that using that companion does nothing for you except on trash mobs that can be easily killed anyways without needing 50% crit chance.

    By using this tactic you are taking a way player incentive to excel.. There is no goal to achieve if 50% is the arbitrary cap. Its no longer a game at that point, well not an RPG. It just becomes a static output under the illusion that you have some ability to be more than the average player. No, you will no longer be able to excel over other players in any way.

    They basically want to make it so a 90 year old grandmother who cares nothing for the game can run the same content as a veteran player. Part of the fun was having the ability to try out different builds but with this paper and plastic choices it makes the choices so limited and that the feats really don't add anything significant that you are equal to a player who made all the wrong feat choices.

    They might as well just get rid of all the feats and boons and just give static additions to the character at this point. Because they are just hiding this fact from the players anyways. Its giving the impression that you are actually gaining something when those gains are so little you really are no different than you were.

    They will further hide this by level scaling through the content. Its not a solution, its just and overly controlled system at this point.
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