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AD Sinks

taugnedtaugned Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10 Arc User
Looking at ZAX the game is in need of some new AD sinks.
The AD sink should not hit new players.
So for example the keys for next end game dungeon.
You can buy 1 key per week for whatever currency.
If you want to buy more than one you have to pay that currency + HAMSTER amount of AD.
Remove that AD costs once the next end game dungeon gets released.
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Comments

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    It will not do anything. How much AD are you talking about? A million AD to get a key? People will just don't buy it if it is expensive. If it is not expensive, it will not change a thing.
    In the end of the day, Zax will not be lower because of that. Not even a dent.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • silvershard#4275 silvershard Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    For a key to act as a sink, economically, it would have to cost more than the value of the reward otherwise it literally still makes more AD.
    If the reward is worth even a bit more than the cost of the key it's not a sink, it's just a marginally slower way of gaining AD... a way that would be generally ignored by most people who would rather use more convenient methods of gaining AD.

    Potential sinks could be a bank vault for shared Professions, or something similar to the charts available from R5 Guild Marketplace, and... of course... the elusive "Player Housing" notion that has been occasionally hinted at by players since... oh... pretty much day 1.
  • johonxgaltjohonxgalt Member Posts: 93 Arc User

    For a key to act as a sink, economically, it would have to cost more than the value of the reward otherwise it literally still makes more AD.
    If the reward is worth even a bit more than the cost of the key it's not a sink, it's just a marginally slower way of gaining AD... a way that would be generally ignored by most people who would rather use more convenient methods of gaining AD.

    Potential sinks could be a bank vault for shared Professions, or something similar to the charts available from R5 Guild Marketplace, and... of course... the elusive "Player Housing" notion that has been occasionally hinted at by players since... oh... pretty much day 1.

    The value of the key has to be greater than the AD reward of the chest, not the total value of the items in the chest. The items in the chest that are not AD and end up on the auction house do not create AD, just move it from player to player with a small AD sink built into the transaction.
  • taugnedtaugned Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10 Arc User

    For a key to act as a sink, economically, it would have to cost more than the value of the reward otherwise it literally still makes more AD.
    If the reward is worth even a bit more than the cost of the key it's not a sink, it's just a marginally slower way of gaining AD... a way that would be generally ignored by most people who would rather use more convenient methods of gaining AD.

    Potential sinks could be a bank vault for shared Professions, or something similar to the charts available from R5 Guild Marketplace, and... of course... the elusive "Player Housing" notion that has been occasionally hinted at by players since... oh... pretty much day 1.

    You do not get it. It is to remove AD away from the economy, it does not matter what you do with the rewards. The AD you paid are removed from game.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 3,041 Arc User
    "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
    In other words, when the Devs or the Management make bad decissions, players stop spending money.

    And as mentioned before in all those other AD sink threads, they should simply improve the Wondrous Bazaar and give us something worth spending AD on.

    Btw. why would the Devs even want a faster working ZAX, when it's driving at least some players to buy ZEN with real money at some point?
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • johonxgaltjohonxgalt Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    taugned said:

    For a key to act as a sink, economically, it would have to cost more than the value of the reward otherwise it literally still makes more AD.
    If the reward is worth even a bit more than the cost of the key it's not a sink, it's just a marginally slower way of gaining AD... a way that would be generally ignored by most people who would rather use more convenient methods of gaining AD.

    Potential sinks could be a bank vault for shared Professions, or something similar to the charts available from R5 Guild Marketplace, and... of course... the elusive "Player Housing" notion that has been occasionally hinted at by players since... oh... pretty much day 1.

    You do not get it. It is to remove AD away from the economy, it does not matter what you do with the rewards. The AD you paid are removed from game.
    You are missing a point, if you charge 5k AD for a key but the chest that it opens give a player 10k Rough AD it is not a sink at all. 5k was taken out of the game but 10k was added back in from the reward chest the player used the key on.
  • taugnedtaugned Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10 Arc User

    taugned said:

    For a key to act as a sink, economically, it would have to cost more than the value of the reward otherwise it literally still makes more AD.
    If the reward is worth even a bit more than the cost of the key it's not a sink, it's just a marginally slower way of gaining AD... a way that would be generally ignored by most people who would rather use more convenient methods of gaining AD.

    Potential sinks could be a bank vault for shared Professions, or something similar to the charts available from R5 Guild Marketplace, and... of course... the elusive "Player Housing" notion that has been occasionally hinted at by players since... oh... pretty much day 1.

    You do not get it. It is to remove AD away from the economy, it does not matter what you do with the rewards. The AD you paid are removed from game.
    You are missing a point, if you charge 5k AD for a key but the chest that it opens give a player 10k Rough AD it is not a sink at all. 5k was taken out of the game but 10k was added back in from the reward chest the player used the key on.
    if you charge 100 k and rewards are Ac
    count or Char bound u do. And 100 K AD is nothing for end game players.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    taugned said:

    taugned said:

    For a key to act as a sink, economically, it would have to cost more than the value of the reward otherwise it literally still makes more AD.
    If the reward is worth even a bit more than the cost of the key it's not a sink, it's just a marginally slower way of gaining AD... a way that would be generally ignored by most people who would rather use more convenient methods of gaining AD.

    Potential sinks could be a bank vault for shared Professions, or something similar to the charts available from R5 Guild Marketplace, and... of course... the elusive "Player Housing" notion that has been occasionally hinted at by players since... oh... pretty much day 1.

    You do not get it. It is to remove AD away from the economy, it does not matter what you do with the rewards. The AD you paid are removed from game.
    You are missing a point, if you charge 5k AD for a key but the chest that it opens give a player 10k Rough AD it is not a sink at all. 5k was taken out of the game but 10k was added back in from the reward chest the player used the key on.
    if you charge 100 k and rewards are Ac
    count or Char bound u do. And 100 K AD is nothing for end game players.
    It does not mean they will waste 100K AD for a key unless the reward worth at least 100K in average in their mind.
    Even if there are people do that, that won't be many especially there is a free key every week. That won't make a dent.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    What's the backlog like these days?

    I was thinking of something else that might or might not be a good sink.
    What about some kind of lottery or raffle? 1,000 AD to enter - buy up to ten or something. At the end of the week, someone wins the pool. Neverember skims 35%, and the winner gets the rest.
  • robai#6206 robai Member Posts: 344 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    Good idea, just put a mythic mount into the lottery (and make it the only way to get it) then lots of AD will be gone :)
  • jelara1jelara1 Member Posts: 52 Arc User

    What's the backlog like these days?

    Almost 26 million. Order I placed on 1/18 was fulfilled yesterday 2/16. So 29 days.
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 838 Arc User

    What's the backlog like these days?

    I was thinking of something else that might or might not be a good sink.
    What about some kind of lottery or raffle? 1,000 AD to enter - buy up to ten or something. At the end of the week, someone wins the pool. Neverember skims 35%, and the winner gets the rest.

    I posted a bid back on 1/29. Still waiting.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,405 Arc User
    I question why there are not more unique transmutes available for AD.

    They don't affect game balance, fulfills a very requested need, and are consumed upon use as a transmute (forcing players to drop, aka, removing more AD from the economy).

    There was a good start with the unique hairstyles, but I think placing them in the Zen market was not very bright move. Will it drive some players to drop some cash and make some revenue to keep the lights on? Sure.

    But keep in mind that there is also the f2p populace that would want these Zen exclusive hairstyles ... which means there's more demand for Zen on the Zen AD exchange. Then you consider the fact that the people that got Zen already bought the item directly and have no need to use the exchange...

    I would hope future unique transmutes/hairstyle options will be placed in the Wonderous Bazaar or a similar AD only vendors as a way to help combat inflation and expand our options of playing dress up.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    miguelfdz said:

    Reducing the sources of AD doesn't work it's proven, and a measure for AD sink it's just palliative.

    As far as I concern, it works exactly what it is as less AD is created. It is other people's fantasy to think it can help Zax.
    Personally, I still do not consider the current stage of Zax is an issue at all. Sure, you need to wait but you will get the Zen you want. It is only one month wait at the moment. I used to wait for 3 months to half a year.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    jelara1 said:

    Almost 26 million. Order I placed on 1/18 was fulfilled yesterday 2/16. So 29 days.

    I posted a bid back on 1/29. Still waiting.

    Thanks! Then it's grown by nearly a million every month since AD was capped?
    But before that, it seems it was growing at a rate of just over 1,300,000 every month (I believe November 2017 saw a backlog of 12 million. May 2018 saw 20 million).

    So at least last year's changes have slowed its growth somewhat. That's 150 million less AD getting dumped into the exchange every month.

    Waiting a month to convert, though... geez...

    By contrast, the PS4 exchange has less than 1 million zen available atm, and trading's currently in the mid 490s.
    Post edited by frogwalloper#6494 on
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited February 2019

    You know, i am just sick of it, people are talking about AD sinks, meanwhile others crashing the whole economy with every MOD. Barovia disaster!!! And now the new professions. Was trying to farm guildmarks the usual way, by spending hours, days, weeks grinding for influence, epic gear, doing SH dailys, just to see the MW materials going down in price like crazy. How can this happens? Are so many people doing the maps? And how on earth are they getting so many guildmarks in the short time. Ofc, another broken thing Crytic came along with MOD 15. I mean 1gold=800 guildmarks, really? This company will never get their HAMSTER done.

    It is always not that hard to get guild mark if your alliance has SH events (e.g. DF) all the time.
    Also, if the coffer is pretty empty, dumping gems to it is easy. Gem is cheap.
    It is about if it worthwhile to run the map.
    I have tons of map because of Guild Mark overflow before mod 15. i.e I have stockpile of maps.
    I just never bother to run them before the new profession.
    Now, I personally run just enough to get stuff to level up MW instead of selling. Others may sell.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited February 2019

    Okay, you are playing content for the guildmarks. This is how it should be done in my opinion. But, if the game allows you to trade gold very cheap in auction house and you have only to buy materials from a vendor and donate them into mimics and get a huge amount of guildmarks and repeat this, its wrong in so many ways and hitting the economy and all the affort other players have done.

    One gold only worth 2 Guild mark. One gold bar (1 gold) worth 300 AD in AH.
    For 1000 Guild mark, it will cost 150K AD (if you buy gold bar from AH and dump to coffer).
    It is hardly cheap to get 1000 Guild mark for me.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    Anything you buy with AD can fluctuate. There is no set conversion rate between the various currencies.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    --- deleted ... I probably should not mention this in the public forum ---
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,651 Arc User

    Good idea, just put a mythic mount into the lottery (and make it the only way to get it) then lots of AD will be gone :)

    Better idea, Put it on the AH and then charge the winning bid for players who were unsuccessful (or didn't even bid) would get a chance to buy the item for the same outrageous price.
  • andyy22andyy22 Member Posts: 20 Arc User

    Was trying to farm guildmarks the usual way, by spending hours, days, weeks grinding for influence, epic gear, doing SH dailys, just to see the MW materials going down in price like crazy. How can this happens?

    Thats rather simple, so let me explain.

    Most MW resources are used mainly for the BiS MW items or good alternatives, compared to other sources. So after the MW IL changes, we saw a surge in demand, since the new IL meant MW5 stuff was now BiS and MW3 at IL540/550 was still better than most other endgame stuff (CR, marks, events). This also meant that MW resources spiked.
    Now after several months the market is saturated with MW items and everyone that could afford such items have bought them. At this point only new, uninformed, impatient or rich players buy MW items, everyone else waits for mod16. Its not clear if mod16 adds new MW stuff or just level 80 blue items. We also don't know how many and which of the old MW resources might be used and in demand. So the MW prices will crush even more, since its just too risky to sit on them atm.

    The only old MW resources that might be more stable are resources used in MW potions and MW unlock related stuff.

    PS: You can also speculate and assume new BiS MW items will be added or +2/3 variants, so we will see a huge demand again in mod16. At this point its everyone's guess.

  • andyy22andyy22 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2019

    @andyy22 this could be one side of the coin, but i believe there was another, which worked over monthes for some players, who have known how to abuse the guildsystem to create millions of guildmarks. And as more and more people found this way, the materials went down to 1/5, some even lower.

    I do a lot of MW stuff (retired as of today yay!) and a few "canari" items would become inflated rather quickly. The items in question are MW GM only resources and needed by almost all MW items (Red Rouge, Potash, Coke, Alkali, Tincal).

    The price of those over the last months followed a normal supply/demand curve, they spiked at 35-44k ad after MW patch, than there was the GM event and prices dropped to 12-16. Than they recovered to 22-25 and now at the end of this mod they are around 16-20.
    The only "whale" i noticed was around the GM event by "Apollo", he/she is a big resource player and from time to time seem to drop mats worth millions AD, but does it in big piles. I have not seen any MW material dumping so far outside of events, the mats follow my tracked demand curve.

    PS: So those "abusers" must be a very disciplined cabal of business players, if they managed to drop millions GM worth of MW mats, without actually crashing the market.
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