Other than one for PVP by @jonkoca, I have not seen a Mod 15 PVE archery build. I have a hybrid archery build that I'm planning on updating for Mod 15, but as I'm on console, I'll need a little more time since Mod 15 has not released yet on my platform. But here is a link to my Mod 14 build: http://bit.ly/Yarrows-Hybrid-Archery-Build. This should be viable even if some updates will be made later.
A hybrid build like Yarrow's is pretty much the only way you're going to make some version of PvE Archery viable IMO. Combat is still where it's at for optimal DPS, but hopefully Cryptic will continue to make improvements to make Archery more competitive on its own.
They never will. A pve archer's problem is not getting party buffs. To rectify this the devs would have to make archers somehow self-buffing, to the extent they could compete with party-buffed toons...
...now imagine an archer who has been made able to compete, alone with no buffs beyond those self-generated, with a full-on pve gwf, in pvp.
They never will. A pve archer's problem is not getting party buffs. To rectify this the devs would have to make archers somehow self-buffing, to the extent they could compete with party-buffed toons...
...now imagine an archer who has been made able to compete, alone with no buffs beyond those self-generated, with a full-on pve gwf, in pvp.
What they would need to do is to make more improvements that allow the Archer to be good in PvE, but not reliant on range. There's no reason why they can't design a decent Archer when other "ranged" characters function fully while in melee range.
They never will. A pve archer's problem is not getting party buffs. To rectify this the devs would have to make archers somehow self-buffing, to the extent they could compete with party-buffed toons...
...now imagine an archer who has been made able to compete, alone with no buffs beyond those self-generated, with a full-on pve gwf, in pvp.
What they would need to do is to make more improvements that allow the Archer to be good in PvE, but not reliant on range. There's no reason why they can't design a decent Archer when other "ranged" characters function fully while in melee range.
right, just like in tabletop there's feats to prevent attacks of oppurtunity for using a bow in melee range
I wish the HR could work like the SW in close range as an archer but we get no love in quick casting. Archer is playable and can do good dps and top paingiver in a few dungeons but it takes practice. I enjoy the archer play style which was hard to lvl but practice and occasional friend to help makes it fun. Have to play at edge of buff range ~15ft away with occasional up close for top results. I still need to work on my rotations. My HR build that needs an update is posted here (https://scionofunity.enjin.com/mobile/forum/viewthread/m/47714898/id/32229927-rushans-hr-guide-to-archery). I am still playing with class powers but aspect of pack and seekers vegence are what I normally run. My single target dps still needs help but mob dps is quite good. Hope to update and probably move my build to a better site (maybe on the forum here or mmoguided?). Not a fan of enjin and their pay to use platform.
to many changes to archery to make a mod 14 viable from my understanding
The biggest change from an archery feats perspective is to Stillness of the Forest, which the build I shared earlier does not use at all. Other than that, Bottomless quiver has a stronger effect on cooldowns and Predator now has a damage buff rather than a debuff. I've been studying the various changes and for the most part my Mod 14 hybrid build will still be viable as is, though certainly I will be making some updates to it. Everything else that has changed in Mod 15 is largely about the HR powers, which are of course quite easy to change out in our rotations. If you prefer to be a range, the build I shared does have rotations included for that. Mostly the build is described as being close-range oriented, but really you can use it from any range you like.
To make archery viable, they'd need to make the ranged attacks viable within the buff circle, and remove all reliance on range to max dps amounts. Also, most viable archery attacks tend to be very very slow both in animation and in recharge. This would need to sped up to allow more mobility, which is imperative at close range. Doubtful they will ever make the needed changes, however since this would inevitably lead to complaints from melee oriented players.
Doubtful they will ever make the needed changes, however since this would inevitably lead to complaints from melee oriented players.
There's no reason to expect pushback; most players realize that melee range is where you need to be regardless of ranged capability. People would complain only if Archer spec suddenly jumped to the top of the charts.
how does this look for a purely solo archery build?
At Wills: Electric Shot / Aimed Shot Encounters: Rain of Arrows / Split the Shy / Cordon of Arrows Dailies: Forest Ghost / Cold Steel Hurricane Passives: Aspect of the Serpent / Stormstep Action
Heroic Feats: Predatory action 5/5, Weapon Mastery 3/3, Toughness 1/3, Swift Footwork 5/5, Endless Assault 3/3, Scoundrel Training 3/3, Disciple of Dexterity 3/3
ok, so having some discussions on another forum, I wanted to run an older pure archery build by you guys and see how it is today after the mod 15 patch. Since its a pure archery build, it'll be mostly for solo play and my daily random dungeon/skirmishes
@xmarik69x Since you appear to want to play ranged only and solo only, I will recommend the following:
First, since you do not seem to like melee, then if you really want to fight from range only, you will need to have a defender companion that will be able to hold aggro like a tank while you fire from a stand off position. Since Mod 15 has altered Stillness of the Forest, there is no particular reason to stand super far away. I think just 30 to 40 feet away would be fine. This will place you close enough to the enemy that your companion will engage in the fight and so your bonding stones will proc. Any farther away and your companion might not engage at all, which will cause the mob to immediately come after you. An inexpensive companion who can do this is the Earth Archon. I would also suggest a Black Ice Prospector as one of the active companions since its bonus will add +25% threat to your summoned Earth Archon to help it hold aggro. Note that if you should ever find yourself in a party, a real tank will likely prefer you not use this companion, because it will cause trouble for the party's tank to hold aggro. As you get into more advanced campaign areas, you are also going to find this strategy becomes increasingly difficult to pull off successfully. Sooner or later, you will be faced with melee situations. Cordon of Arrows helps a little with this problem by pinning a mob down. While it's pinned down, you can hit it with additional powerful AoEs like Rain of Arrows and Cordon and in this way you can usually blow them away pretty fast. Split the Sky is useful too when a mob is more dispersed.
If you do decide to run in parties regularly, then you probably should get a Chultan Tiger or Conartist for your summoned companion, since the party tank will handle the aggro. But do not attack before your party tank has a chance to attack first. Let him take aggro. Once he does, then you can unload your arsenal. Also in a party, you might want to use Longstrider's Shot and Hawkeye to help buff the party's damage output. DPS is not everything. Buffing is a great team player thing to do.
As far as the feats and powers you listed, and the Bloodtalon build, I will just suggest the following:
Fire Cordon of Arrows first, to pin the mob in place and to give your companion more time to secure aggro.
Use Disruptive Shot instead of Cold Steel Hurricane. It requires little action points and can be fired frequently. This is also great for parties because you can proc Shepperd's Devotion to buff the party.
Since you are not planning to do melee anyway, use Twin Blade Storm instead of Aspect of the Serpent. This works very well with AoEs.
Storm Step Action will probably be a help to your rotation, but if you were to stack more recovery, then that combined with Bottomless Quiver should take care of cooldowns. Then you could take Aspect of the Falcon for a damage bonus to your ranged attacks. At 30 to 40 feet, this will be an additional +6% to +8% damage.
Shift three points from Swift Footwork into Battlewise. This will enhance your companion's ability to take aggro. Stamina is helpful, but there are several boons you can get to help refill Stamina.
Shift 5 points from Hasty Retreat into Stillness of the Forest. Not that Hasty Retreat isn't helpful, but if you can get your companion to take aggro, then rather than you running away from the mob, you can just blast the hell out of the mob. So I say go for the extra DPS of Stillness of the Forest. Your AoEs are strong as an Archer, so rely on them to destroy the enemy. That will be your best defense.
You will need to stack lots of Crit, since archery feats do not provide as much crit as they used to. So I recommend using a lot of Azure enchantments on your companion (the bonding stones will amplify their effect) and choose gear that provides crit, armpen and power and a little recovery. Make sure your defense ignored (armpen) gets to 85% too!
Bloodtalen's build reads nice, but it's not as good as it sounds. First of all, I would suggest firing many more Encounter attacks than At-Wills. Don't just stand there firing Aimed Shot. Instead, crush the enemy upfront with an immediate heavy artillery attack with all three Cordon charges, Rain of Arrows, Disruptive Shot, and Split the Sky. As needed, sprinkle in Electric Shot. Rarely should you need Aimed Shot, but once in a while is ok. Aimed Shot is just too slow to be very practical.
my HR melee build is for group content, I'm not in groups when soloing, thus I'm trying to build a solo ranged build which is what the HR is supposed to originally be... there's a reason a bow is 'main hand', and the blades are 'off-hand'...lol
really? BloodTalon's guide says only use if a trapper or combat, never as an archer
Use Disruptive Shot instead of Cold Steel Hurricane. It requires little action points and can be fired frequently. This is also great for parties because you can proc Shepperd's Devotion to buff the party.
once again, says its situational and mainly for pvp builds
Since you are not planning to do melee anyway, use Twin Blade Storm instead of Aspect of the Serpent. This works very well with AoEs.
i did take off serpent, and as of my previous post was asking only about bloodtalon's guide, so no aspect of serpent here
Storm Step Action will probably be a help to your rotation, but if you were to stack more recovery, then that combined with Bottomless Quiver should take care of cooldowns. Then you could take Aspect of the Falcon for a damage bonus to your ranged attacks. At 30 to 40 feet, this will be an additional +6% to +8% damage.
almost never use dailies in the build, doesn't help
Shift three points from Swift Footwork into Battlewise. This will enhance your companion's ability to take aggro. Stamina is helpful, but there are several boons you can get to help refill Stamina.
Shift 5 points from Hasty Retreat into Stillness of the Forest. Not that Hasty Retreat isn't helpful, but if you can get your companion to take aggro, then rather than you running away from the mob, you can just blast the hell out of the mob. So I say go for the extra DPS of Stillness of the Forest. Your AoEs are strong as an Archer, so rely on them to destroy the enemy. That will be your best defense.
no swiftfootwork used, i'm only asking about bloodtalon's guide I completely respecced to using blacktalon's guide
You will need to stack lots of Crit, since archery feats do not provide as much crit as they used to. So I recommend using a lot of Azure enchantments on your companion (the bonding stones will amplify their effect) and choose gear that provides crit, armpen and power and a little recovery. Make sure your defense ignored (armpen) gets to 85% too!
Bloodtalen's build reads nice, but it's not as good as it sounds. First of all, I would suggest firing many more Encounter attacks than At-Wills. Don't just stand there firing Aimed Shot. Instead, crush the enemy upfront with an immediate heavy artillery attack with all three Cordon charges, Rain of Arrows, Disruptive Shot, and Split the Sky. As needed, sprinkle in Electric Shot. Rarely should you need Aimed Shot, but once in a while is ok. Aimed Shot is just too slow to be very practical.
Hope this helps!
not really, as i don't use cordon as per guide, i had a few other HR players on different forums and in game point me to bloodtalon's, that's why I brought this to this forum. I do respect the advice you give @Typo, I've read many different class threads with your input, but it just seems to me that you're saying bloodtalon's guide is complete HAMSTER, as you keep suggesting things that goes completely against the guide
@xmarik69x Having a melee loadout is great. So then my feedback above still would apply for the feats you listed in terms of solo range playing. You can just ignore the parts that mention what-ifs about being in a party. And the feats from Bloodtalen's build would be good too for a pure archer.
When loadouts were introduced to the game, one of the things I did was make an archery loadout. I reviewed a number of builds and read a range of posts and comments on the subject. Just like you, I discovered finding a good build was slim pickings. Somewhere along the way, I reviewed/tried Bloodtalon's build (there is even an old comment from me), and as I reviewed build after build, even old or crappy ones, and experimented with them, I slowly combined the best of the best. Eventually the process led me to the hybrid build I shared earlier. Even though that build talks a lot about melee, it does include information on playing in a strictly ranged position, including the rotations for both mobs and single targets.
So about Cordon, Bloodtalen says it is "useless." But I know I lot of pure archers who would disagree with her on that. Here is a quick little video example in which I am using Cordon of Arrows in the Ballad of Baphomet. Not really useless, I would say. It is one of the archer's highest damage powers.
But I do understand the desire to play a pure archer and fire from range. I think Bloodtalon's build would be fine as a basis to start from, especially since there is not a lot out there. But there are a few issues you should consider:
Bloodtalon's build was never finished. If you read thru the comments, there are numerous requests for her to finish the build (begging her to finish it) but it has now been well over a year since anyone has heard from her. You could probably fill the gaps in her build by referring to my build for the missing information on boons, equipment, companions, mounts, and insignias. Those things should mostly translate pretty well to working with her build.
Bloodtalon's build is based on Mod 11, so it's now out of date and is soon to be very out of date for Mod 15. All her points about Stillness of the Forest will be invalid because that feat has been totally reworked in Mod 15.
But you could use her build to start with and then build upon it. Some of my suggestions above would probably help tremendously, especially the part about companions.
I don't want to say Bloodtalen's build is "HAMSTER" but honestly the thing was just never finished. So the issue with companions and bonding stones, for example, is a pretty big one. I don't know what she would have suggested. But I think my suggestion in my earlier comment does solve the problem and it also takes into account the Mod 15 changes to feats.
@xmarik69x Hopefully I didn't discourage you or anything from that last comment. Anyway, here is something you might find helpful. Since there are not just a lot of pure PVE archery builds out there, I decided to write up a pure archery build. It is up to date with mod 15 and it's a complete build with all the things included that were missing from Bloodtalon's build, as listed in my earlier comment. http://bit.ly/Yarrows-Pure-Archery-Build
Note: I'll be making some updates to this soon, but thought I would share it anyway.
They never will. A pve archer's problem is not getting party buffs. To rectify this the devs would have to make archers somehow self-buffing, to the extent they could compete with party-buffed toons...
...now imagine an archer who has been made able to compete, alone with no buffs beyond those self-generated, with a full-on pve gwf, in pvp.
What they would need to do is to make more improvements that allow the Archer to be good in PvE, but not reliant on range. There's no reason why they can't design a decent Archer when other "ranged" characters function fully while in melee range.
The problem here isn't with archery tree. The problem here is how PVE combat mechanic in this game affect player positioning during combat. Ever wonder why in PVP people are more spread out in a fight than PVE? Did u notice how rigid PVE combat positioning in this game look these days? Are there any other PVE combat position variant in this game other than hugging each other? What if the reason to hug each other is removed. Will people still fight hugging each other or will we see more freedom in positioning? I don't think anyone like their freedom to be constricted or being constricted by someone else. I dare say we have more freedom on how we fight in a dungeon 5years ago than today. IMO, that's a downgrade.
The mistake this game made,
1) giving too much credit to group buffs. It should be tone down significantly as describe in 3)
2) Having too little hp pool to withstand blows to make healing in this game viable or having too much value in mob damage to make hp viable to be healed ( to sum it up, healer need to have appropriate amount of reaction time to heal someone before he dies.)
3) Too many group buff in this game. Even the tank & dps have them. Its easier to balance a class if all the buff are made into self buff (except that of DC) and group buff are made a lot less effective than self buff. Probably around 10-15% of self buff since buff are stackable. For example longtrider boost its caster dmg by 20% while BTS buff party damage by 3% to all party member within the DC sight and it stacks with other DC power that boost damage. However with all possible damage buff encounter and dailies a DC could equip at one time, should not generate more than a total of 15% boost to the party.
4) life steal being a general stat. Life steal should be made exclusive as a class skill for warlock.
5) achieving 100% crit is possible. Whats the point of crit stat?
6) there is more but it all I can think of for now.
Comments
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
...now imagine an archer who has been made able to compete, alone with no buffs beyond those self-generated, with a full-on pve gwf, in pvp.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
At Wills: Electric Shot / Aimed Shot
Encounters: Rain of Arrows / Split the Shy / Cordon of Arrows
Dailies: Forest Ghost / Cold Steel Hurricane
Passives: Aspect of the Serpent / Stormstep Action
Heroic Feats:
Predatory action 5/5, Weapon Mastery 3/3, Toughness 1/3, Swift Footwork 5/5, Endless Assault 3/3, Scoundrel Training 3/3, Disciple of Dexterity 3/3
Archery Feats:
Ghost Walker 5/5, Broadhead Arrow 5/5, Storm Caller's Arrow 5/5, Longshot 5/5, Hasty Retreat 5/5, Bottomless Quiver 5/5, Unflinching Aim 5/5, Rising Focus 5/5, Predator 1/1
https://nw.mmominds.com/2017/07/02/bloodtalons-pve-archer-hr-dps-build/
First, since you do not seem to like melee, then if you really want to fight from range only, you will need to have a defender companion that will be able to hold aggro like a tank while you fire from a stand off position. Since Mod 15 has altered Stillness of the Forest, there is no particular reason to stand super far away. I think just 30 to 40 feet away would be fine. This will place you close enough to the enemy that your companion will engage in the fight and so your bonding stones will proc. Any farther away and your companion might not engage at all, which will cause the mob to immediately come after you. An inexpensive companion who can do this is the Earth Archon. I would also suggest a Black Ice Prospector as one of the active companions since its bonus will add +25% threat to your summoned Earth Archon to help it hold aggro. Note that if you should ever find yourself in a party, a real tank will likely prefer you not use this companion, because it will cause trouble for the party's tank to hold aggro. As you get into more advanced campaign areas, you are also going to find this strategy becomes increasingly difficult to pull off successfully. Sooner or later, you will be faced with melee situations. Cordon of Arrows helps a little with this problem by pinning a mob down. While it's pinned down, you can hit it with additional powerful AoEs like Rain of Arrows and Cordon and in this way you can usually blow them away pretty fast. Split the Sky is useful too when a mob is more dispersed.
If you do decide to run in parties regularly, then you probably should get a Chultan Tiger or Conartist for your summoned companion, since the party tank will handle the aggro. But do not attack before your party tank has a chance to attack first. Let him take aggro. Once he does, then you can unload your arsenal. Also in a party, you might want to use Longstrider's Shot and Hawkeye to help buff the party's damage output. DPS is not everything. Buffing is a great team player thing to do.
As far as the feats and powers you listed, and the Bloodtalon build, I will just suggest the following:
- Fire Cordon of Arrows first, to pin the mob in place and to give your companion more time to secure aggro.
- Use Disruptive Shot instead of Cold Steel Hurricane. It requires little action points and can be fired frequently. This is also great for parties because you can proc Shepperd's Devotion to buff the party.
- Since you are not planning to do melee anyway, use Twin Blade Storm instead of Aspect of the Serpent. This works very well with AoEs.
- Storm Step Action will probably be a help to your rotation, but if you were to stack more recovery, then that combined with Bottomless Quiver should take care of cooldowns. Then you could take Aspect of the Falcon for a damage bonus to your ranged attacks. At 30 to 40 feet, this will be an additional +6% to +8% damage.
- Shift three points from Swift Footwork into Battlewise. This will enhance your companion's ability to take aggro. Stamina is helpful, but there are several boons you can get to help refill Stamina.
- Shift 5 points from Hasty Retreat into Stillness of the Forest. Not that Hasty Retreat isn't helpful, but if you can get your companion to take aggro, then rather than you running away from the mob, you can just blast the hell out of the mob. So I say go for the extra DPS of Stillness of the Forest. Your AoEs are strong as an Archer, so rely on them to destroy the enemy. That will be your best defense.
- You will need to stack lots of Crit, since archery feats do not provide as much crit as they used to. So I recommend using a lot of Azure enchantments on your companion (the bonding stones will amplify their effect) and choose gear that provides crit, armpen and power and a little recovery. Make sure your defense ignored (armpen) gets to 85% too!
- Bloodtalen's build reads nice, but it's not as good as it sounds. First of all, I would suggest firing many more Encounter attacks than At-Wills. Don't just stand there firing Aimed Shot. Instead, crush the enemy upfront with an immediate heavy artillery attack with all three Cordon charges, Rain of Arrows, Disruptive Shot, and Split the Sky. As needed, sprinkle in Electric Shot. Rarely should you need Aimed Shot, but once in a while is ok. Aimed Shot is just too slow to be very practical.
Hope this helps!When loadouts were introduced to the game, one of the things I did was make an archery loadout. I reviewed a number of builds and read a range of posts and comments on the subject. Just like you, I discovered finding a good build was slim pickings. Somewhere along the way, I reviewed/tried Bloodtalon's build (there is even an old comment from me), and as I reviewed build after build, even old or crappy ones, and experimented with them, I slowly combined the best of the best. Eventually the process led me to the hybrid build I shared earlier. Even though that build talks a lot about melee, it does include information on playing in a strictly ranged position, including the rotations for both mobs and single targets.
So about Cordon, Bloodtalen says it is "useless." But I know I lot of pure archers who would disagree with her on that. Here is a quick little video example in which I am using Cordon of Arrows in the Ballad of Baphomet. Not really useless, I would say. It is one of the archer's highest damage powers.
But I do understand the desire to play a pure archer and fire from range. I think Bloodtalon's build would be fine as a basis to start from, especially since there is not a lot out there. But there are a few issues you should consider:
- Bloodtalon's build was never finished. If you read thru the comments, there are numerous requests for her to finish the build (begging her to finish it) but it has now been well over a year since anyone has heard from her. You could probably fill the gaps in her build by referring to my build for the missing information on boons, equipment, companions, mounts, and insignias. Those things should mostly translate pretty well to working with her build.
- Bloodtalon's build is based on Mod 11, so it's now out of date and is soon to be very out of date for Mod 15. All her points about Stillness of the Forest will be invalid because that feat has been totally reworked in Mod 15.
- But you could use her build to start with and then build upon it. Some of my suggestions above would probably help tremendously, especially the part about companions.
I don't want to say Bloodtalen's build is "HAMSTER" but honestly the thing was just never finished. So the issue with companions and bonding stones, for example, is a pretty big one. I don't know what she would have suggested. But I think my suggestion in my earlier comment does solve the problem and it also takes into account the Mod 15 changes to feats.Note: I'll be making some updates to this soon, but thought I would share it anyway.
The mistake this game made,
1) giving too much credit to group buffs. It should be tone down significantly as describe in 3)
2) Having too little hp pool to withstand blows to make healing in this game viable or having too much value in mob damage to make hp viable to be healed ( to sum it up, healer need to have appropriate amount of reaction time to heal someone before he dies.)
3) Too many group buff in this game. Even the tank & dps have them. Its easier to balance a class if all the buff are made into self buff (except that of DC) and group buff are made a lot less effective than self buff. Probably around 10-15% of self buff since buff are stackable. For example longtrider boost its caster dmg by 20% while BTS buff party damage by 3% to all party member within the DC sight and it stacks with other DC power that boost damage. However with all possible damage buff encounter and dailies a DC could equip at one time, should not generate more than a total of 15% boost to the party.
4) life steal being a general stat. Life steal should be made exclusive as a class skill for warlock.
5) achieving 100% crit is possible. Whats the point of crit stat?
6) there is more but it all I can think of for now.
The above are all just my opinion.