Guardian Fighter changes needs some nerfing

grimah

Now that you fixed Jagged Blades for AoE it's through the aoe damage out of whack. It should atleast be toned down from 100%/200%/300%/400%/500% to 50%/100%/150%/200%/250%.

And also Griffon's Wrath is just absurd in design, 3 full encounters with the cooldown of one? It would be nicely balanced if it functioned the same as before with 3 charges but having cooldown reduction applying to the charges (minus DC cooldown reduction feat). Reducing the damage is not a solution, as it would just make it a clunky encounter easily replaceable with others (Commander strike, Anvil) so I don't see another way without reverting it to charges, or re-work the entire encounter.

As much fun as it is, I can clear trash easier than other DPS classes right now, and our single target is also buffed due to wrath's cooldown change, and we was fine with our single target damage before.

If anyone disagrees with me, post your reasoning and suggestions rather than whine.

Would be nice if Tactician and Protection could be buffed whilst you are at it.

rjc9000

The infinite Griffon's "feature" that was supposedly fixed on preview made it to live.

Could the devs please fix it before Mod 16?
(I don't know how to do it and do not feel like putting in the effort on re-producing it for bug reporting reasons.)

vordayn

grimah said:

Now that you fixed Jagged Blades for AoE it's through the aoe damage out of whack. It should atleast be toned down from 100%/200%/300%/400%/500% to 50%/100%/150%/200%/250%.

And also Griffon's Wrath is just absurd in design, 3 full encounters with the cooldown of one? It would be nicely balanced if it functioned the same as before with 3 charges but having cooldown reduction applying to the charges (minus DC cooldown reduction feat). Reducing the damage is not a solution, as it would just make it a clunky encounter easily replaceable with others (Commander strike, Anvil) so I don't see another way without reverting it to charges, or re-work the entire encounter.

As much fun as it is, I can clear trash easier than other DPS classes right now, and our single target is also buffed due to wrath's cooldown change, and we was fine with our single target damage before.

If anyone disagrees with me, post your reasoning and suggestions rather than whine.

Would be nice if Tactician and Protection could be buffed whilst you are at it.

Usually it's an issue in PvP that affects PvE, but this time it's the other way around.

There's videos up for the infinite Griffon's Wrath "feature" as well. PvP is a landmine again. One rotation with the press of one Flourish, critically hit proccing Jagged Blades. While you are being affected by flourish, you are constantly controlled. Then follow it up with infinite Griffon's Wrath if by (little) chance they are still alive.

At first I thought that the reason why GFs were dominating the PvP Leaderboard was because of the TR nerfs (you know, remove one predator, and another one takes it place), but no, there were actual really good buffs in place made for Mod 15!

I don't expect any changes made until near mod 16, what with the glacial pace of changes being made. Ah well, just know that while you can "clear trash easier than other DPS classes right now", that same 'trash' is pretty much any other class in PvP as well.

pitmonster

I don't play a GF as my main, only an alt so I am no expert. Since the changes were to balance the classes with other classes, what exactly are you comparing the damage ability being "too much" compared to what? GWF? SW? In your opinion has the class changes in Mod15 made the GF top DPS compared to comparable classes with the same game skill level of the player?

someonedies

GUARDIAN FIGHTER CHANGES NEEDS SOME NERFING
Did u mean: needs some love ❤?

giz

They can't fix Shield Warrior's Wrath...i don't think they want to fix or balance Griffon's. They made GF as powerful they are as intended.

grimah

rjc9000 said:

The infinite Griffon's "feature" that was supposedly fixed on preview made it to live.

Could the devs please fix it before Mod 16?
(I don't know how to do it and do not feel like putting in the effort on re-producing it for bug reporting reasons.)

I didn't mention the bug, because it's a bug that may or may not have been reported. I'm just commenting on the new version and the way it is intended, is still absurd in design.

callumf

pitmonster#5684 said:

I don't play a GF as my main, only an alt so I am no expert. Since the changes were to balance the classes with other classes, what exactly are you comparing the damage ability being "too much" compared to what? GWF? SW? In your opinion has the class changes in Mod15 made the GF top DPS compared to comparable classes with the same game skill level of the player?

I main a GF and no way I am top paingiver [not mainly setup for DPS - a hybrid of DPS and survivability]... unless the other players are HAMSTER or WAY below my iL - a 12k GWF still out dps a 15k GF from what I have seen

spidey

giz#2086 said:

..i don't think they want to fix or balance Griffon's. They made GF as powerful they are as intended.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11014963

"Combat and Powers

Classes and Balance

Guardian Fighter: Griffon's Wrath can no longer be used infinitely."

So they fix the bug. If they wanna balance it? Who knows.

wizardlvl80

I agree with the OP. The whole "dps GF" thing went too far. Nowdays our fellow GFs don't even raise a shield and are first to die in the dungeon runs. When I ran raq FBI on my GF, people from my party were thanking me that I use KV, cause they haven't seen GF using it in a while.

I think that dps GF is a playstyle that very few in this game can utilise properly (I'm definitely not one of them) and because of the conqueror hypetrain and one rotation bosses videos, most of the community is playing DPS GF cause they want the fame too.

While I don't mind GF doing some dps, I would happily see some nerfs for the Conqueror path and buffs for the both Protector and Tactician.

grimah

wizardlvl80#5963 said:

I agree with the OP. The whole "dps GF" thing went too far. Nowdays our fellow GFs don't even raise a shield and are first to die in the dungeon runs. When I ran raq FBI on my GF, people from my party were thanking me that I use KV, cause they haven't seen GF using it in a while.

I think that dps GF is a playstyle that very few in this game can utilise properly (I'm definitely not one of them) and because of the conqueror hypetrain and one rotation bosses videos, most of the community is playing DPS GF cause they want the fame too.

Well that has nothing to do with the spec, that's purely up to the person. I tank with KV on and off, depending on my assessment of the party. And dying because of not blocking is always the risk you take. Some GFs are better than others at it, I myself am not perfect and make bad calls. But that's the joy about being a GF, the dance of death if you want to maximise your DPS and survive.

I just hope the new changes don't take that away from the class. It's rare to find such gameplay in an MMO.

callumf

grimah said:

wizardlvl80#5963 said:

I agree with the OP. The whole "dps GF" thing went too far. Nowdays our fellow GFs don't even raise a shield and are first to die in the dungeon runs. When I ran raq FBI on my GF, people from my party were thanking me that I use KV, cause they haven't seen GF using it in a while.

I think that dps GF is a playstyle that very few in this game can utilise properly (I'm definitely not one of them) and because of the conqueror hypetrain and one rotation bosses videos, most of the community is playing DPS GF cause they want the fame too.

Well that has nothing to do with the spec, that's purely up to the person. I tank with KV on and off, depending on my assessment of the party. And dying because of not blocking is always the risk you take. Some GFs are better than others at it, I myself am not perfect and make bad calls. But that's the joy about being a GF, the dance of death if you want to maximise your DPS and survive.

I just hope the new changes don't take that away from the class. It's rare to find such gameplay in an MMO.

Also as a fairly mediocre GF myself, with mostly DPS build, you got to time your shield raising an ddecide when to drop your shield and do DPS if the party DPS is worse than your own.

Also timing your swings and stuff so you can avoid the big red splats.

And being the "tank" and getting all the criticism in low DPS parties because you can't keep everyone alive and protected. Frankly looking back I wish I had chosen a proper tank class or a DPS class

crazeecracka

All I know is , I set my gf up around my gryphon encounter and chose the feats that give me extra strikes. HOW DO THEY TAKE THE STRIKES AWAY AND NOT GIVE A MAJOR BONUS IN RETURN? are my feat points I used now worthless? Am I supposed to pay for a F'n retraining token to fix my Toon? Te encounter is so slow and jerky I can't even get the 3 strikes out. Needs fixed or this lvl 12 vip is done. I'm sick of these commies.

checkmatein3

GF was mostly untouched in this round of class balance. Protector line is still useless at capstone, Tactician capstone is poorly understood and has diminishing returns with higher max HP (which is counter intuitive).

I have never been dps GF. I don't spec for it; I don't run it. But others enjoy it. From the setup, it requires specific choices of gear and feats to max out, choices which most players will not take the time to grind out.

If they fix Griffon's infinite (and it looks like they have), and break nothing else, I will be satisfied until the GF gets better attention on making the Protector line and the Tactician line more viable.

I had said in the GF preview thread that the changes to GF would increase some of its dps, and I was laughed out of the thread. The reason why is that the change to jagged blades' crit on AoEs will increase damage for mobs, whereas specced dps GFs usually test on single target dummies (check the videos). This is why I always do my own testing under conditions that are more than a single dummy (or three or four) in a room. The changes to jagged blades will help hybrid Conq or hybrid Tacticians who run KV and run wide AoEs for aggro do a bit more dps in large mobs. It does not really help on single target bosses, but that is why I am against the OP asking for a nerf to the jagged blades AoE affect. It will not change how specced dps GFs run, but it might affect how other GF builds (especially the lower to mid range TIL GFs) help to hold aggro and do some dps through crit and jagged blades. And in hardcore dungeon runs where the choice is minimal TIL, such a boost will be welcomed. If you ask to nerf it by 50%, and you go min TIL run, you will find the ability to burn mobs even harder, the dungeon run much longer, etc. Leave the choice as it is, and let non dps GFs who setup for mobs do a bit more dps and fulfill their aggro/tank role.

In my dungeon runs where I setup as Hybrid Conqueror, I usually find my dps output in mobs higher than other dps (below 16k TIL), but on single boss targets, they out dps. In dungeon runs where I setup as Hybrid Tactician, I find my dps output helps to keep aggro against the damage or aggro of higher dps players (like maxed GWF, TR, SW, and even HR) or buffers (OP/DC) with appropriate marks and such.

I care not about Griffons Wrath since I rarely use it. It does not fit my desired rotation, not even for proccing Crushing Pin. So, nerf it, buff it, I don't care.

exgardian

Here's 2 solutions to the crying babies players: Remove GF's from Neverwinter, or remove 67%+ of all GF's base damage and change their class name to just "Guardian" (G without the F).

Why: Except by ITF, all things a GF can do, an OP do better, much better !

From there, they will only be a type of "playable npc's" holdind just some fancy shield without any use other than using Into the Fray and Commander's Strike. Is that what you want? Turning a FIGHTER class into a dead class just like the HR's in module 5 in all environments for many modules ?


Seriously talking, why GF's have high damage ?

Simple answer: They're a FIGHTER CLASS TOO, just like GWF's. GF's and GWF's are FIGHTERS ! The main difference compared to GWF's: Shield = Less attack, more defense and more control, just like their role. Any fighter class in any game aren't suppose to do mid-low damage.

Accept that, or learn again how to play with your class properly !

Period.

grimah

exgardian said:

Seriously talking, why GF's have high damage ?

Simple answer: They're a FIGHTER CLASS TOO, just like GWF's. GF's and GWF's are FIGHTERS ! The main difference compared to GWF's: Shield = Less attack, more defense and more control, just like their role. Any fighter class in any game aren't suppose to do mid-low damage.

Accept that, or learn again how to play with your class properly !

Period.

You didn't read my thread. I don't want them to remove the damage. Just tone it down a tad.

I'm a conqueror tank. As you said guardian fighter buff is like a bad OP. And I agree, it needs buffing. If you look at my previous posts I do mention this.

Right now I play as a DPS + tank + soft buff (itf/crushing pin only) which is great! You can carry almost any group through any dungeon, since you can heal yourself, kill everything and also tank the bosses. The problem is I'm not full DPS, I have around 260k hp, DR cap with survivor wraps on. But I'm surpassing other classes in things they should be doing better, whilst ALSO being able to tank the boss, it's pretty much two in one almost.

I'm just asking for a slight tone down to bring it back in line a bit.

The griffon's wrath is just because I think the new version is clunky as hell. It should at least display the charges you have. It just leaves too much in the dark (charges, cooldown timer before full refresh and sometimes doesn't show going on cooldown) I just think it's unrefined.

cilginordek

grimah said:

I just hope the new changes don't take that away from the class. It's rare to find such gameplay in an MMO.

A thousand times this.

My suggestion would be to make raising shield apply a 1-2 second buff to the GF, and if you get hit while you have that buff, you get a bonus for 20 seconds. This buff could have 5 second ICD to prevent people from just pressing shift up and down.

The bonus you get can depend on the capstone you take. 20% more damage for conqueror, 20% more AP gain for party from tactician, and 10% less damage taken for the party for Protector.



As for nerfing GF dps, all that needs to be done is to cut KC damage in half.

jonkoca

Okay, now I know why I'm dying more in pvp. GFs are more broken than usual. Thnx for the explaination grimah.

@Devs. Please break HRs next mod, I want to see page one completely green.