Crafting: Option to turn off +1 Rewards or fix MW turn in to recognize +1 items

vordayn
vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
edited November 2018 in Player Feedback (PC)
I would prefer it if there was an option to toggle off the +1 version when you don't require it. Or at least fix it so that MW NPC tasks (and guild coffer donations) accept +1 versions.

When completing a MW task chain, it asks for a certain item, but it will not recognise the +1 versions. With getting a high enough proficiency to complete the task, the focus is also fairly high, which means that those items with the +1 version (often around 50% focus) are not counted! It's a complete waste of time and resources.

Focus also seems very buggy: 1) bugged interaction with focus supplements and proficiency values, and also 2) failures with 100% proficiency but less than 100% focus.
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Comments

  • kiraskytower
    kiraskytower Member Posts: 455 Arc User
    I second this .... working on Masterwork IV alchemy on my CW earlier I ended up making several batches of +1 potions. unfortunately they didn't count towards the potions I needed to complete the task, so 3 successful batches of potions wasted.
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  • mdarkangel#4696
    mdarkangel#4696 Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    The required item <b>should</b> be the +1 version. This is Masterworks after all, and they've never asked for an inferior product before. It always had to be the best. Why should now be any different?
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited November 2018

    The required item should be the +1 version. This is Masterworks after all, and they've never asked for an inferior product before. It always had to be the best. Why should now be any different?

    Then you'll go through two layers of RNG just to get the item. Well, it's the same as it is now, except besides just RNG, you gotta work through the bugs. Getting the required items to hand in now is a mess ...

    It should just accept both. That was the only layer of RNG required prior to Mod 15.
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  • arcanjo86
    arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,092 Arc User
    were you using a low focus artisan for the task to prevent more +1 items?
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    arcanjo86 said:

    were you using a low focus artisan for the task to prevent more +1 items?

    I tried to maximize proficiency so used the highest proficiency artisan, wasn't looking at focus. But now, I may need to find a high proficiency/low focus artisan just to complete these MW quest chains ... :/
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  • someonedies
    someonedies Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    So that everyone who has already created +1 top-tier MW quest unlock items should be HAMSTER now?

    Do you suggest we just discard "manticore +1" like armor? Nice..
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  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User

    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    So that everyone who has already created +1 top-tier MW quest unlock items should be HAMSTER now?

    Do you suggest we just discard "manticore +1" like armor? Nice..
    No I think he means just for the +1 items being recognised when handing in to NPCs / for quests.
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  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    Appreciate the response @asterdahl! :)

    I also would like to point out that the +1 items are not recognised by:

    1. Handing to the Stronghold NPCs for final MW quest chain items (e.g. Cashmere Carpet +1 is not accepted).
    2. Handing to Steward for the MW III Recipes.
    3. Exchanging with Stronghold vendors for MW resources (e.g. Dark Lacquer not accepting Lacquer Branch +1 at the Atelier etc).
    4. Donating to the Guild Coffer.


    A related MW issue is that some SH guild vendors only sell you various items if you have Mailsmithing Rank III (and I also suspected Rank I) unlocked, but Mailsmithing has already been combined with Armorsmithing, so it is a relic from pre-Mod 15 and is unobtainable:



    There are two 'Armorsmithing Recipes III' books available at the artisan - one which requires 20 Adamant Rings (the former Mailsmithing task) and the other 20 Adamant Plate (former Platesmithing).



    I'm hoping the former recipe book will unlock 'Mailsmithing Recipes III', which may or may not work, but I'm trying for this recipe book. Crafting 20 Adamant Rings and discarding the +1 versions (or selling on the AH) is going to take a bit longer but I'll test it. I can also buy it from the SH vendor, but I suspect that if I hadn't unlocked Mailsmithing Rank I in a prior mod, some of those items will not be able to be bought at the SH vendor.
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  • minotaur2857
    minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    This shows somebody who doesn't have a clue about their own game, look at the AH, the +1s sell for less than the normal versions (and possibly less than the cost of making them) because nobody wants to wear them with better available, just wanted for the quest.

    The issue is that most people just use a forgehammer to get the chance of making up, and this on its own gives you a significant chance of the +1.

    The quest needed to be rewritten like the either/ors where you can deliver one off a list to knox etc in the new campaign, 3 quests ideally all given simultaneously (but sequentially would not be terrible) where you can give (normal or +1 version) to NPCs would have sufficed.
  • someonedies
    someonedies Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    vordayn said:

    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.

    Appreciate the response @asterdahl! :)

    I also would like to point out that the +1 items are not recognised by:

    1. Handing to the Stronghold NPCs for final MW quest chain items (e.g. Cashmere Carpet +1 is not accepted).
    2. Handing to Steward for the MW III Recipes.
    3. Exchanging with Stronghold vendors for MW resources (e.g. Dark Lacquer not accepting Lacquer Branch +1 at the Atelier etc).
    4. Donating to the Guild Coffer.


    A related MW issue is that some SH guild vendors only sell you various items if you have Mailsmithing Rank III (and I also suspected Rank I) unlocked, but Mailsmithing has already been combined with Armorsmithing, so it is a relic from pre-Mod 15 and is unobtainable:



    There are two 'Armorsmithing Recipes III' books available at the artisan - one which requires 20 Adamant Rings (the former Mailsmithing task) and the other 20 Adamant Plate (former Platesmithing).



    I'm hoping the former recipe book will unlock 'Mailsmithing Recipes III', which may or may not work, but I'm trying for this recipe book. Crafting 20 Adamant Rings and discarding the +1 versions (or selling on the AH) is going to take a bit longer but I'll test it. I can also buy it from the SH vendor, but I suspect that if I hadn't unlocked Mailsmithing Rank I in a prior mod, some of those items will not be able to be bought at the SH vendor.
    Agree, I've already sent a ticket https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1244043/masterwork-armorsmithing-commission-recipes
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  • quickfoot#7851
    quickfoot#7851 Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    asterdahl said:

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    Can't ya'll just use a few AND, OR, or IN statements in your code to account for +1's? Seems like a pretty simple fix to me.

    I suppose if you're using some high level graphical tool create quests on the fly, it might be kind of difficult for the developers to account for +1 versions depending on how the tool works, but a tool should work for you. Just saying, if the tool is limiting your ability to solve problems, it's probably a crappy tool.

    I'd also like to suggest, stop reusing lairs for different quests all over the place, it's just plain lazy and really takes away from the quality of the game.

  • karamekos
    karamekos Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 47 Arc User
    I too am experiencing frustration with this and would like to see the above-noted compatibility implemented, please.
  • mushellka
    mushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests.

    Unfortunately there is no simple way to allow the quest to take either or a combination of high and normal quality results, as they are discreetly different items on the back end. We do plan to address this issue, however, it will take some time.

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue. I apologize for the inconvenience in the meantime.


    Here you are. Buy it from me. Because rather none of the players will be tempted by this type of doubtful and useless item. I managed to create it for the fifth time, it will be included in the price.




    Especially I used blue artisan with focus 320. 4 attempts burned (normal quality) the fifth made +1, despite the minimum chance of high quality.
    Just change the whole task. Or do not require the production of useless items that can not be sold.

    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • karamekos
    karamekos Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    I've seen the non +1 items be more expensive than their +1 variants. The market for non +1 items seems to be growing.

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  • neidanman#1423
    neidanman#1423 Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    asterdahl said:

    Thank you for the feedback. We chose not to require the high-quality results for these quests, so as not to further increase the difficulty of the masterwork quests in comparison with the pre-overhaul difficulty of these quests...

    In the meantime, if you do end up with any high-quality results we hope that you can manage to sell these on the auction house for a profit. If you use normal quality materials to make the items, your high-quality chance shouldn't be so high that this creates a serious issue...

    I get what you mean, but it is more difficult now that you can 'succeed' by making a +1 but that doesn't complete the quest. Also some of the +1 items are only useful as quest turn-ins afaik so they can't be sold for profit. Also because you can't trade +1 items to temp vendors that's another step of difficulty (cost) added.

    I don't know how many people are now just sitting on savings waiting to see what will happen (I was really looking forward to this in M15 but now it feels like I just need to leave all money in the bank and wait,) but if you could do any kind of quick fix in the meantime it would be great. e.g. a vendor to trade +1 items for +0 versions 1 to 1 would be great, or as someone else mentioned, a consumable that sets focus to 0%, or a checkbox on the UI to say 'make a basic version only' etc
  • antok500#4237
    antok500#4237 Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    Isn't suggesting you sell useless items on the auction house for a profit an incitement to scam fellow players. I though cryptic was supposed to be banning scammers not encouraging them.
  • celthil#8842
    celthil#8842 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    Anyone else note the fact that you created a "newly minted gold coin+1" but it's only worth 50 cp? It's things like this that have made most of the crafting HAMSTER when your lvling. How do you make a gold coin which is like 10k cp but it only is worth 50cp? Kind of like the platinum "junk" items only being worth silver. Someone needs to reevaluate item values methinks.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,446 Arc User

    Anyone else note the fact that you created a "newly minted gold coin+1" but it's only worth 50 cp? It's things like this that have made most of the crafting HAMSTER when your lvling. How do you make a gold coin which is like 10k cp but it only is worth 50cp? Kind of like the platinum "junk" items only being worth silver. Someone needs to reevaluate item values methinks.

    Those are properly the gold coin Jim used to fill the basement. :)
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  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    The ongoing issue with +1 items and quest turning really should be addressed in some fashion.

    As other have pointed out, the +1 versions are often without any real value outside of quest completion.

    This is truly yet another level of possible failure in MC, which is already riddled with them.
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  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    @asterdahl - any word on how this is going?

    I've crafted three +1 sphene/silverspruce/rubellite amulets in a row now. Each time I had a proficiency of 77% and a focus of 9%. Yes you read that, 9% focus percentage, yet three +1 in a row. Yes I purposely waited and used a high proficiency/low focus artisan for the task.

    I know this is probably RNG, but the chances of getting this result is (0.77*0.09*)^3, is 1 in 3000, and my patience is wearing fairly thin. Especially since the +1 versions do not sell anymore in the auction house as they are only MW II items.

    It makes me skeptical that the focus value are accurate, especially since your focus/proficiency values are still bugged. I got the same proficiency with a 385 vs 375 proficiency artisan, and the focus values reflect proficiency (which they should not) i.e. they increase/decrease if only the proficiency value is changed.
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  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Here are the receipts:

    Note how I've produced all three +1 variants required for this MW Jewelcrafting task. Also note the 77% proficiency and 9% focus values (the best ratio that I can get). Still, this is a 1/3000 shot, so well done me?



    Next note how when I add a Workman's Cordial +1 (+60 Proficiency), it raises the focus by 1% even though focus remains 920/1300. What is going on here!?



    Finally, to conclude our stellar MW run devoid of glitches, notice how when I use a rare artisan (Boern Norrdal +385/+350 proficiency/focus) instead of a common one (Bree Underleaf +375/+320) I am left with the same proficiency of 77% but am hit with an increase in focus (which I don't want!) from 9% to 16%, demonstrating the uselessness of a better ranked artisan in this case.




    Everything is glitchy and counterintuitive. This is not a polished product. Please for the love of Moradin, fix it.
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  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    Not to mention that it is possible to create a +1 item with a 0% Focus rating.

    I suppose the most generous interpretation would be that the chance is actually “less than 1%,” but if it says 0, it should probably mean 0.
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  • mdarkangel#4696
    mdarkangel#4696 Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    Proficiency is correct. It would take a 14 point difference to see a full 1%.

    1035 out of 1350 is 76.6666666% (round up to 77)
    1045 out of 1350 is 77.407407% (round down to 77)

    Focus is another story. Too much going on behind the curtain.
  • minotaur2857
    minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    Not to mention that it is possible to create a +1 item with a 0% Focus rating.



    I suppose the most generous interpretation would be that the chance is actually “less than 1%,” but if it says 0, it should probably mean 0.

    Is also possible to fail a 100%, have had it a few times then the actual number is less than target by a few points, presume it's just rounded.
  • bigman99#8273
    bigman99#8273 Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    Can you please fix this problem? People are stacking up these "high quality" pieces that have no value whatsoever(can't turn them in for quest credit). Took 3 tries to create an item for mw and when it finally worked, it was +1(30% chance of high quality btw). and useless to turn in!!! What about just a temporary vendor in PE that will exchange high quality for normal, so at least we can take the lesser quality items for turn-ins.