Tbs vs bs

eliybeats

I don't have act atm but will download soon to see if I can test, but is there any way to compare the difference between both blade storms dmg and twin blade storm's damage buff? Obviously twin blade storm is situational but I want to ask is... Say I wanted to keep aspect of the pack on at all times and I have one slot left and I'm getting ready to fight hoards of monsters in msp. Is there a point where blade storm starts to outperform twin blade storm (or vice versa) due to the amount of enemies present? Also is careful attack still broken? Please help me out here its bugging my mind lol

artifleur

Before mod15, TBS and BS gave similar results.

With mod15, BS got a big buff, TBS a small one.

I don't think TBS is gonna be better than BS, but that's only speculations.

wizardlvl80

artifleur said:

Before mod15, TBS and BS gave similar results.

With mod15, BS got a big buff, TBS a small one.

I don't think TBS is gonna be better than BS, but that's only speculations.

Last I checked on preview, I reported TBS was not working. Unfortunately no one from devs gave a HAMSTER about it, so I couldn't care less to check if it was fixed.

eliybeats

I hope it works I'll test later on preview I guess.

rjc9000

I don't think the Blade Storm buff is as big as people were hoping for it to be.

The Peanut Gallery's Synergy guide gives a way to calculate/compare things that proc for (x)% of your damage vs. a flat damage buff as:

100/(100-% of Damage) = % damage buff

The reasoning is as follows (credits to Janne for explanation), but I know math puts people off, so I'll spoiler it.

Say we think about deathbabby. Assuming nobody else does damage except for you (and ignoring phase changes blah blah blah), you will always need to deal 1.1 billion damage to kill the fetus, but that 1.1 comprised of different sources of damage (think of the pie chart of an ACT log). If you use a flat % damage buff that applies to all damage (coughcoughthornedrootscoughcough), all of those different sources are buffed by the same damage multiplier. That should not change the proportions too much.

But if we replace said damage buff with a proc of damage, then we would notice a different distribution of our pie chart due to a new source of damage being introduced. What wouldn't change is that we would still need to deal a total of 1.1 billion damage to end the babby and get our UES disappointment.

What we want to know is how much. We know that we have the following:

Damage Source * Buff = 100% of the damage dealt during the run
(Damage Source + Proc Damage) = 100% of the damage dealt during the run

By the power of algebra, we can set the equations equal to each other and solve for

Damage Source * Buff =(Damage Source+Proc Damage)
Damage Source * Buff = (100% of Damage dealt during the run)
Buff = (100% of Damage Dealt During Run)/Damage Source

Then we need a way to get (Damage Source) including (Proc Damage).

(100% of ...) =(Damage Source) + (Proc Damage)
(100% of ...) - (Proc Damage) = Damage Source

Buff = (100% of ...)/(100% of ... - Proc Damage)

where Proc Damage is equal to what % of your damage came from the proc.

For Blade Storm to beat the max buff of Pack offhand, you will need Blade Storm to equal 7.5% or more of your total DPS, on the assumption you will have a source of CA with or without Pack (obviously, if Pack is the only consistent source of CA in the team, Pack wins by default).

1.08 = (100)/(100-x)
108-1.08x=100
-1.08x=-8
x=7.407...

As for analysis, I found that Blade Storm is not that great for situations that you kill enemies quickly with just your abilities. In those situations, you walk in, press a few buttons, and the enemies are dead by your Plant Growths/Blade Hurricanes/Split Strikes alone, which doesn't give Blade Storm many times to proc and thus reducing the % of damage that comes from Blade Storm in those sections. Also worth noting: on bosses/places where you introduce AoC + Split the Sky, Blade Storm will do worse due to your damage being split amongst many more powers.

Of course, you can just flat out get lucky and get Blade Storm to proc all the time, but I spent all my blessings on dueling the burger king, so most of my distributions on mobs/squishy bosses tended to look like this:



In longer fights (or in fights where you attack many times), I found Blade Storm to be much more useful. This is because, in longer fights, you actually have to attack many times, and the law of large numbers will ensure that you will start getting more Blade Storm procs, thus making Blade Storm consist of a larger % of your damage. I ran a rAQ SP (above log is from same run, had GF tank) and this was the result of a full pull at the end:



(huh, maybe that's why I got luna'd 5x in a row, stupid burger king)

Haven't tried/tested much of Twin Blade Storm, or NW in general (aside from lololshieldwarrior'schallenge). Last I checked, the damage buff only applied on attacks that hit multiple targets, though I don't think that's too much of an issue on AoE (since if you only have a single enemy left, you're close to moving on to a new set of mobs anyways). Assuming it is functioning, I would not hesitate to say Twin Blade Storm is better than Blade Storm on AoE.

eliybeats

@rjc9000! Thank you again for posting this bro! I really appreciate it. I've been experimenting more with twin blade and find it is indeed better except for situations like sp pulls. I even experiment and use both tbs and bs and allow other classes like tank to give ca or I just position myself better if I can. This gives me another question to ask. Let's say on that last pull on msp that you charted that I had pack and blade storm. I see on your act log blade storm was 22% of your damage in that pull and since that was a big pull it allowed blade storm to proc more making it do most of your damage My question is if you use twin blade storm for the 20% buff would it be more efficient in the sense that it would take less time to kill the mobs because you are already buffed. Lol my head is spinning with questions like these.

rjc9000

In order for Blade Storm to be better than Twin Blade Storm (assuming they are competing for the same class feature slot), Blade Storm needs to be ~17% or more (16.70%, rounded) of your overall DPS.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=(100/(100-x))=1.20

On that pull, Blade Storm would come out on top compared to TBS. No reason not to use both on AoE if you got someone else in the team giving CA.

eliybeats

Awesome! Ty bro. This has been very educational