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M15, Guild Progression, and You

nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
I know we're all concerned about how small and mid-sized guilds are going to fare with the coming professions changes. I'm going to try to put together as comprehensive a set of information as possible. Hopefully, this will help someone other than just me.

As far as I'm concerned, making gems and gold using the new profession system is going to be cost-prohibitive in terms of the gold/silver/copper cost required to actually make these resources. Furthermore, the number of steps required to make Crates of Transmuted Gold in the new system is burdensome, to be nice about it. Therefore, my perspective in this discussion is one of relying on the SH temporary buildings as much as possible to meet a guild's needs for these resources. I'll also discuss what I've learned about meeting the guild's needs for other, previously craftable resources. Finally, part of my goal is to maximize the opportunity for continued character progression in the face of the loss of Leadership RP, which means I'm going to assume that if you are making gems using Jewelcrafting, then you are doing so to provide RP for your character(s).

So, to start, here are the numbers we are dealing with. NOTE: These costs do not account for any alliance discounts.

SH Temporary Structure Individual Costs

 

Resources Required

Structure

Gems

Profession Resources (Labor)

Food

Metal

Stone

Wood

Recruiter 0 12000 38000 27000 24000 32000
Gemcutter 0 23000 0 31000 34000 40000
Assayer 21000 9000 0 46000 47000 0

SH Temporary Structure Total Costs

 

Resources Required

Structures

Gems

Profession Resources (Labor)

Food

Metal

Stone

Wood

Recruiter, Gemcutter 0 35000 38000 58000 58000 72000
Recruiter, Assayer 21000 21000 38000 73000 71000 32000
Gemcutter, Assayer 21000 32000 0 77000 81000 40000
Recruiter, Gemcutter, Assayer 21000 44000 38000 104000 105000 72000

Resource Production (Food, Metal, Stone, Wood)

Rank

Support Modifier %

Production (Base/Modifier/Total) Per

 

Hour

Day

Week

1 12.5% 240/30/270 5760/720/6480 40320/5040/45360
2 25% 257/64.25/321.25 6168/1542/7710 43176/10794/53970
3 37.5% 277/108.875/380.875 6648/2493/9141 46536/17451/63987
4 50% 300/150/450 7200/3600/10800 50400/25200/75600
5 75% 327/245.25/572.25 7848/5886/13734 54936/41202/96138
6 100% 360/360/720 8640/8640/17280 60480/60480/120960

Coffer Maximums

 

Resources (no warehouse/with L1 warehouse)

Guild Level

Gems

Profession Resources (Labor)

Food

Metal

Stone

Wood

2 & 3 79k/-- 28k/-- 40k/-- 40k/-- 40k/-- 40k/--
4 & 5 118k/153400 42k/54600 50k/65000 50k/65000 50k/65000 50k/65000
6 & 7 248k/322400 115k/149500 63k/81900 75k/97500 63k/81900 63k/81900
8 & 9 273k/354900 150k/195000 69k/89700 83k/107900 69k/89700 69k/89700
10 & 11 301k/391300 165k/214500 91k/118300 91k/118300 76k/98800 76k/98800
12 & 13 332k/431600 198k/257400 101k/131300 101k/131300 97k/126100 114k/148200
I have opted not to look at coffer maximums beyond level 12/13 because that is the point at which your coffer maximums with a L1 warehouse are high enough to store all the resources you need if you invite the Assayer, Gemcutter, and Recruiter to your SH on the same day. A L1 Warehouse increases your coffer maximums by 30%, which is a big deal. My opinion is that you should at least build one L1 Warehouse as soon as possible after the fifth production plot opens for your SH.

I have also opted not to look at SH resource production beyond L6 buildings because that is the point at which you can exceed your food, metal, stone, and wood needs for the three temporary structures and still have enough surplus production to afford construction projects.

Here are my assumptions:
1. Your guild never has enough Influence and will rely on the Recruiter almost non-stop.
2. You'll be using the Gemcutter to pay the Assayer's gem costs.
3. The Lumberyard, Farm, Mine, Quarry, and Marketplace will be five buildings you'll keep at maximum available level as your guild increases in level.
4. That you know the Guild Hall counts as one of the buildings required for the "# of buildings at X level" requirements.

Goals:
1. Eventually keep the Assayer, Gemcutter, and Recruiter in the SH without interruption. (This assumes your coffer is not full in these categories.)
2. Bring the Assayer, Gemcutter, and Recruiter to the SH on the same day.
3. Level the guild while building/upgrading the minimum number of buildings necessary to meet requirements.

I am prioritizing being able to keep the Recruiter and Gemcutter in the SH week after week, before you arrive at the point where you'll also be keeping the Assayer around long-term. This is what I am going to be doing with my own guild. Obviously, while your guild is growing, you'll have to make some choices about which of these three resources are most important to your guild in the moment.

If you keep your Lumberyard, Farm, Mine, Quarry, and Marketplace at maximum level, then you can reach level 9 without building any other buildings. Since you don't need huge coffer maximums, I would build a L1 Warehouse somewhere between GL5 and GL9 in order to give you a good boost to your storage. After that, I would ignore it for a while.

The food required to bring all these buildings is very low. It's basically affordable from level L2 and, if you keep the Farm at maximum available level, you'll never really struggle to afford the food cost for the Recruiter.

Wood will be the next most affordable cost for these temporary structures. Since only two of them require wood, you can store enough wood for both at GL6 with a L1 Warehouse. If you don't build a Warehouse, then you'll need to reach GL10 before you can store enough to afford both on the same day. The lowest level buildings required to produce enough wood for both buildings is a L4 Lumberyard and a L4 Milling Yard. Personally, I won't be doing this and I wouldn't recommend it. Once you're able to get your Lumberyard to L6, you only need a L2 Milling Yard. Since wood costs are so low, I would simply accept that you won't be able to keep both the Gemcutter and the Recruiter in the SH at the same time and without interruption to either - until you reach GL12 and have a L6 Lumberyard.

Metal and Stone you need in more or less the same quantities. So when the second support plot opens up for you, pick either a Smelter's Yard or a Masonry Guild and build that. I built a Smelter's Yard on this support plot for three reasons. First, it was the building my guild could afford. Second, the coffer maximum for metal is currently much higher than for other resources. Third, it doesn't matter which one I built because I'll need the other one as soon as the third support plot opens. Depending upon which of these you build, you'll be just 1300 short of the weekly cost for both the Recruiter and the Gemcutter together. (You'll have a L4 Mine/Quarry around this time.)
Post edited by nunya#5309 on

Comments

  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    To afford all three structures every week, you'll eventually need a L6 Mine, L6 Quarry, L5 Smelter's Yard, and L5 Masonry Guild. This won't leave you much surplus every week for other construction projects. So you might as well figure you're going to need all four buildings at L6 as soon as possible. This is also why I recommend you just build a L1 Warehouse and only level your Milling Yard to L2. You'll have a sixth production plot available to you by GL9 and if you want higher coffer maximums, I would put a second L1 Warehouse on this plot. This is much cheaper than leveling your first Warehouse to L2 and beyond.

    Anyway, as you can see, resource production is going to be more important than boons for small and mid-sized guilds or for guilds with low player contributions, generally. Unfortunately, it means there isn't a lot of room for boons until you reach GL12, unless you're willing to put up with even slower guild progression than you were previously expecting.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    When it comes to Profession Resources, previously called Labor, you're probably wondering what you're going to do now that there are no more crates from Corvee Labor. Don't panic! It's actually not as bad as you might think. If you're already going to have a high level of Gathering and unless/until the developers fix the bug preventing donations of +1 resources**, then my recommendation is to donate profession resources that you can get from the flowers in Chult and Omu. These have high value and, other than your time, are free to get. Since you'll be able to use those currencies to buy rough astral diamonds, you'll probably be spending time there, anyway.

    ** "+1 resources" are high quality resources. They'll be named something like "Copper Ore +1", "Gold Sand +1", "Teak +1", "Alum +1", and so on.

    If you are in an alliance with a guild of sufficient level, you can also use the Explorer Scrolls to harvest resources for donations. These are the scrolls that can be purchased from the Generalist and bestow resources used in MasterWork crafting. They are named things like "Explorer Scroll: Cold Run", "Explorer Scroll: Chult", etc. With M15, there will be +1 versions of these resources that can be gathered, as well. Since we cannot currently donate +1 resources, just sell these on the AH. MasterWork crafters are going to be interested in these resources anyway because they want to produce high quality products, and these resources help them with this goal. So this is a way to both boost your own AD purse and your guild's Profession Resources coffer holdings at the same time.

    Now, if you'd already gathered up a bunch of these MW resources and hadn't been able to sell them in the AH before M15, then you're in luck! Those resources will be able to be donated to the coffer as Profession Resources. (At least, as of the last time I checked, which was around 7pm US Central Time on 3 November.)

    If the developers do fix the problem with donating high quality resources, then Copper Ore (or any other L1 Gathering task item) is going to be pretty much the cheapest and fastest way to fill your guild's Surplus Equipment coffer. It'll cost you an unmodified 1 silver 98 copper to run that task non-stop for three hours, giving you 432 Profession Resources in that time. This is more cost-effective and time efficient than higher level tasks. No, really. I checked. It's true.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    Finally, let's talk about Surplus Equipment. This is going to be another sticking point. Unfortunately, this is one where you'll definitely have to choose between character progression and guild progression some of the time. All the currently salvageable gear can be donated to the guild coffer as Surplus Equipment. This true both before and after M15, and the coffer values don't change. Epic/purple gear is worth 810 Surplus Equipment, and this includes the gear you can currently get from the Seal Vendor in PE. I didn't check rare/blue gear, yet.

    I'm figuring that people are sometimes going to have to choose gear from the Seal Vendor or rough astral diamonds. Also, looted epic gear can now be sold to vendors for gold. (Maybe that's also currently possible. I haven't really paid attention because who'll sell it for gold instead of salvaging it? Well, ok, maybe if you have millions on millions of AD, but then you're probably not the target audience here.) So I think we won't be struggling that badly for Surplus Equipment after M15 because those of us who aren't into MW won't need a ton of gold for crafting.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    Have you checked what you can buy from the bloomery etc in SHs and whether you can donate what you buy with guild marks ?
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    I just checked. The Bloomery has only three items that can be purchased for guild marks. The cheapest one is Iron Rust at 200 guild marks per one. The item cannot be donated to the SH for Profession Resources.
  • tazz4nowtazz4now Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    @nunya#5309 thank you for doing all of this research, it is very helpful with all of the changes happening in mod 15.

    I really wish they would remove the cap on "influence", and allow us to use the "jubilee trader" during all events, that alone would be one big help to those of us with small strongholds, they really need to help us out on something, I am currently GH lvl 4 (this is only how far I have been able to get since SH's started) and need almost 180,000 influence, that is a lot and at that rate it will probably be another 6 mths to a year before I see that amount

    I understand that the bigger guilds had to get the higher amounts of stuff to get to the levels they are at, but if the devs would lift some of the caps on stuff needed, after all of this time that SH's have been around, those of us with the smaller guilds could have some relief

  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    @tazz4now You're welcome. I'm glad it helps. When it comes to farming Influence, if you are able to stomach it, run a bunch of HE's on days you have lots of time to play. Then on days you don't, just be sure to claim 5 of them every day. You'll get the Influence even though you earned the award on a different day. Also, you should be able to invite the Recruiter to your guild. Your coffer's big enough to store enough for it, and your base production rate with L2 buildings is high enough, as well. If you're able to tend the Recruiter three to four times a day and not let it sit full for long periods, then that's an easy 15k to 16k Influence per week. I'm hoping there's a guild update coming in the near future. Unfortunately, I worry it will end up being a Corrupt-A-Wish like the professions system.
  • tazz4nowtazz4now Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    @nunya#5309 thank you again, I will do that, right now it's me playing regularly and a few friends every once in awhile in my guild, I didn't know about saving the HE reward for other days, so yes that will help and I will start using the Recruiter, I have almost 80,000 influence but with almost 100,000 still needed it's discouraging to say the least, but I love this game and will just keep pushing forward, even with the new professions (maybe) lol
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    @nunya#5309

    Any idea what happens to Labor Crates? As in, if I have some, should I donate them before this goes live, or will I still be able to donate them after?
  • rifter1969rifter1969 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 516 Arc User
    @nunya#5309

    This is truly an awesome guide. Thanks for the time it took to put together.

    Your insights and advice are greatly appreciated. I have recently started putting a recruiter in my SH, but thanks to your guide I will start looking at the others as well. Silly me, I thought, aside from the Mysterious Merchant, all they did was MW stuff.

    I have a question though in regards to surplus.
    What about the bags you get from Quartermaster Enchants, are they still donateable?

    I have a few hundred of those buggers littering my inventory.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    tazz4now said:

    @nunya#5309 thank you again, I will do that, right now it's me playing regularly and a few friends every once in awhile in my guild, I didn't know about saving the HE reward for other days, so yes that will help and I will start using the Recruiter, I have almost 80,000 influence but with almost 100,000 still needed it's discouraging to say the least, but I love this game and will just keep pushing forward, even with the new professions (maybe) lol

    The same strategy (not to claim it when you finish it) applies to many places in this game.
    To maximize daily reward, you just claim enough for the day and leave the unclaim for another day.

    e.g.
    You should only claim enough to get the daily 100% in Barovia an omu and leave the unclaims for the other day to maximize your daily reward. Same for claiming 3 quests (in WoD, Dread Ring, Sharanadar, ...) to get the SH daily quest rewards.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User

    @nunya#5309



    Any idea what happens to Labor Crates? As in, if I have some, should I donate them before this goes live, or will I still be able to donate them after?

    You'll still be able to donate them, @mdarkangel#4696 . They will get renamed "Box of Profession Resources", but the icon is the same and their value is unchanged. The same is true for the value of things like Crates of Precious Jewelry, Crates of Adamantine Spears, and other surplus equipment type crates from other professions.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User

    @nunya#5309

    This is truly an awesome guide. Thanks for the time it took to put together.

    Your insights and advice are greatly appreciated. I have recently started putting a recruiter in my SH, but thanks to your guide I will start looking at the others as well. Silly me, I thought, aside from the Mysterious Merchant, all they did was MW stuff.

    I have a question though in regards to surplus.
    What about the bags you get from Quartermaster Enchants, are they still donateable?

    I have a few hundred of those buggers littering my inventory.

    You're welcome, @rifter1969 ! I'm glad it's helpful!

    The QM bags work the same way they currently do. So I'd just hold onto them and use them either for donating or for enchantments when you need RP.
  • tazz4nowtazz4now Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    @plasticbat I use to do that when I was doing the dragon in WoD and totally forgot LOL, sometimes I can be a complete blonde (yes I am also female too lol), I took a bit of a break after SKT (which not only burned me out for a bit but put me way behind on the mods), I was still logging in and doing professions daily and running some stuff for the SH.
    I am now in Chult trying to get that part done (still haven't finished SKT yet), then on to Omu and then Barovia, it looks like mod 15 may have me running that and trying to catch up also, I do appreciate any and all advice and want to thank you for yours. With some luck (and hopefully some time to play more) I should catch up fairly quick, maybe I'll even go back to SKT and finish it one day (it's the only campaign I got tired of, not even mod 6 burned me out as much as that one lol)
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    tazz4now said:

    @plasticbat I use to do that when I was doing the dragon in WoD and totally forgot LOL, sometimes I can be a complete blonde (yes I am also female too lol), I took a bit of a break after SKT (which not only burned me out for a bit but put me way behind on the mods), I was still logging in and doing professions daily and running some stuff for the SH.
    I am now in Chult trying to get that part done (still haven't finished SKT yet), then on to Omu and then Barovia, it looks like mod 15 may have me running that and trying to catch up also, I do appreciate any and all advice and want to thank you for yours. With some luck (and hopefully some time to play more) I should catch up fairly quick, maybe I'll even go back to SKT and finish it one day (it's the only campaign I got tired of, not even mod 6 burned me out as much as that one lol)

    For SKT, you don't need the last 2 boons. I have only one character finished the whole SKT campiagn. The others stopped after they got the ring.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • tazz4nowtazz4now Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    ok thanks, that is exactly what I have left, my main has the ring and that's where I said enough, that campaign was just too much work for so little gain weekly, even the original tiamat "get a million linu's" didn't bother me as much as SKT did, at least with tiamat and WoD, there were some decent rewards for your trouble
  • bayaz#7892 bayaz Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    OK, guys.

    Maybe i am thinking wrong, but the Assayer produces arround 102 Gold every week (7 Days=168 hours, divided by 5=34 times 3=102).

    The elemental thingies can be sold for 80 silver if i am not mistaken, so a stack is worth 800 gold. I am not sure about the prices in the AH right now, but i doubt the costs for a stack are over 80k. So you could potentially invest just 10k of ADs per week and get the same ammount of gold. 10% of the possible income of a given day per week. Probably less depending on the price in the AH.

    I know that ADs are needed for lots of stuff, but this does not seem like a bad deal, especially since you can save your guild the gemcutter too. You wrote his main purpose was to supply the gems needed for the assayer.

    Anything wrong with my math?


    Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    @bayaz I don't see anything wrong with your math. The Gemcutter's main purpose would be paying that part of the Assayer's cost if you use the Assayer. If not, then the Gemcutter is 24k gems per week at the cost of a little bit of Profession Resources and a couple of minutes a few times a day to tend it. For myself, my goal is to remove the need to use actual astral diamonds for providing gems or gold. I'd rather use it to upgrade enchantments on my character, or for buying vouchers for other resources that my guild gains slowly.
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    @bayaz#7892
    If you tend it religiously you'll get 100 gold for the week (168/5=33.6, that .6 works out to 1.8 gold)

    If the option is to spend 10k AD for 100 gold or put the Assayer up, I'll opt to put the Assayer up and donate the 10k AD to the coffer.
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