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M15, Guild Progression, and You
nunya
Member Posts: 933 Arc User
I know we're all concerned about how small and mid-sized guilds are going to fare with the coming professions changes. I'm going to try to put together as comprehensive a set of information as possible. Hopefully, this will help someone other than just me.
As far as I'm concerned, making gems and gold using the new profession system is going to be cost-prohibitive in terms of the gold/silver/copper cost required to actually make these resources. Furthermore, the number of steps required to make Crates of Transmuted Gold in the new system is burdensome, to be nice about it. Therefore, my perspective in this discussion is one of relying on the SH temporary buildings as much as possible to meet a guild's needs for these resources. I'll also discuss what I've learned about meeting the guild's needs for other, previously craftable resources. Finally, part of my goal is to maximize the opportunity for continued character progression in the face of the loss of Leadership RP, which means I'm going to assume that if you are making gems using Jewelcrafting, then you are doing so to provide RP for your character(s).
So, to start, here are the numbers we are dealing with. NOTE: These costs do not account for any alliance discounts.
I have opted not to look at coffer maximums beyond level 12/13 because that is the point at which your coffer maximums with a L1 warehouse are high enough to store all the resources you need if you invite the Assayer, Gemcutter, and Recruiter to your SH on the same day. A L1 Warehouse increases your coffer maximums by 30%, which is a big deal. My opinion is that you should at least build one L1 Warehouse as soon as possible after the fifth production plot opens for your SH.
I have also opted not to look at SH resource production beyond L6 buildings because that is the point at which you can exceed your food, metal, stone, and wood needs for the three temporary structures and still have enough surplus production to afford construction projects.
Here are my assumptions:
1. Your guild never has enough Influence and will rely on the Recruiter almost non-stop.
2. You'll be using the Gemcutter to pay the Assayer's gem costs.
3. The Lumberyard, Farm, Mine, Quarry, and Marketplace will be five buildings you'll keep at maximum available level as your guild increases in level.
4. That you know the Guild Hall counts as one of the buildings required for the "# of buildings at X level" requirements.
Goals:
1. Eventually keep the Assayer, Gemcutter, and Recruiter in the SH without interruption. (This assumes your coffer is not full in these categories.)
2. Bring the Assayer, Gemcutter, and Recruiter to the SH on the same day.
3. Level the guild while building/upgrading the minimum number of buildings necessary to meet requirements.
I am prioritizing being able to keep the Recruiter and Gemcutter in the SH week after week, before you arrive at the point where you'll also be keeping the Assayer around long-term. This is what I am going to be doing with my own guild. Obviously, while your guild is growing, you'll have to make some choices about which of these three resources are most important to your guild in the moment.
If you keep your Lumberyard, Farm, Mine, Quarry, and Marketplace at maximum level, then you can reach level 9 without building any other buildings. Since you don't need huge coffer maximums, I would build a L1 Warehouse somewhere between GL5 and GL9 in order to give you a good boost to your storage. After that, I would ignore it for a while.
The food required to bring all these buildings is very low. It's basically affordable from level L2 and, if you keep the Farm at maximum available level, you'll never really struggle to afford the food cost for the Recruiter.
Wood will be the next most affordable cost for these temporary structures. Since only two of them require wood, you can store enough wood for both at GL6 with a L1 Warehouse. If you don't build a Warehouse, then you'll need to reach GL10 before you can store enough to afford both on the same day. The lowest level buildings required to produce enough wood for both buildings is a L4 Lumberyard and a L4 Milling Yard. Personally, I won't be doing this and I wouldn't recommend it. Once you're able to get your Lumberyard to L6, you only need a L2 Milling Yard. Since wood costs are so low, I would simply accept that you won't be able to keep both the Gemcutter and the Recruiter in the SH at the same time and without interruption to either - until you reach GL12 and have a L6 Lumberyard.
Metal and Stone you need in more or less the same quantities. So when the second support plot opens up for you, pick either a Smelter's Yard or a Masonry Guild and build that. I built a Smelter's Yard on this support plot for three reasons. First, it was the building my guild could afford. Second, the coffer maximum for metal is currently much higher than for other resources. Third, it doesn't matter which one I built because I'll need the other one as soon as the third support plot opens. Depending upon which of these you build, you'll be just 1300 short of the weekly cost for both the Recruiter and the Gemcutter together. (You'll have a L4 Mine/Quarry around this time.)
As far as I'm concerned, making gems and gold using the new profession system is going to be cost-prohibitive in terms of the gold/silver/copper cost required to actually make these resources. Furthermore, the number of steps required to make Crates of Transmuted Gold in the new system is burdensome, to be nice about it. Therefore, my perspective in this discussion is one of relying on the SH temporary buildings as much as possible to meet a guild's needs for these resources. I'll also discuss what I've learned about meeting the guild's needs for other, previously craftable resources. Finally, part of my goal is to maximize the opportunity for continued character progression in the face of the loss of Leadership RP, which means I'm going to assume that if you are making gems using Jewelcrafting, then you are doing so to provide RP for your character(s).
So, to start, here are the numbers we are dealing with. NOTE: These costs do not account for any alliance discounts.
SH Temporary Structure Individual Costs |
||||||
Resources Required |
||||||
Structure |
Gems |
Profession Resources (Labor) |
Food |
Metal |
Stone |
Wood |
| Recruiter | 0 | 12000 | 38000 | 27000 | 24000 | 32000 |
| Gemcutter | 0 | 23000 | 0 | 31000 | 34000 | 40000 |
| Assayer | 21000 | 9000 | 0 | 46000 | 47000 | 0 |
SH Temporary Structure Total Costs |
||||||
Resources Required |
||||||
Structures |
Gems |
Profession Resources (Labor) |
Food |
Metal |
Stone |
Wood |
| Recruiter, Gemcutter | 0 | 35000 | 38000 | 58000 | 58000 | 72000 |
| Recruiter, Assayer | 21000 | 21000 | 38000 | 73000 | 71000 | 32000 |
| Gemcutter, Assayer | 21000 | 32000 | 0 | 77000 | 81000 | 40000 |
| Recruiter, Gemcutter, Assayer | 21000 | 44000 | 38000 | 104000 | 105000 | 72000 |
Resource Production (Food, Metal, Stone, Wood) |
||||
Rank |
Support Modifier % |
Production (Base/Modifier/Total) Per |
||
Hour |
Day |
Week |
||
| 1 | 12.5% | 240/30/270 | 5760/720/6480 | 40320/5040/45360 |
| 2 | 25% | 257/64.25/321.25 | 6168/1542/7710 | 43176/10794/53970 |
| 3 | 37.5% | 277/108.875/380.875 | 6648/2493/9141 | 46536/17451/63987 |
| 4 | 50% | 300/150/450 | 7200/3600/10800 | 50400/25200/75600 |
| 5 | 75% | 327/245.25/572.25 | 7848/5886/13734 | 54936/41202/96138 |
| 6 | 100% | 360/360/720 | 8640/8640/17280 | 60480/60480/120960 |
Coffer Maximums |
||||||
Resources (no warehouse/with L1 warehouse) |
||||||
Guild Level |
Gems |
Profession Resources (Labor) |
Food |
Metal |
Stone |
Wood |
| 2 & 3 | 79k/-- | 28k/-- | 40k/-- | 40k/-- | 40k/-- | 40k/-- |
| 4 & 5 | 118k/153400 | 42k/54600 | 50k/65000 | 50k/65000 | 50k/65000 | 50k/65000 |
| 6 & 7 | 248k/322400 | 115k/149500 | 63k/81900 | 75k/97500 | 63k/81900 | 63k/81900 |
| 8 & 9 | 273k/354900 | 150k/195000 | 69k/89700 | 83k/107900 | 69k/89700 | 69k/89700 |
| 10 & 11 | 301k/391300 | 165k/214500 | 91k/118300 | 91k/118300 | 76k/98800 | 76k/98800 |
| 12 & 13 | 332k/431600 | 198k/257400 | 101k/131300 | 101k/131300 | 97k/126100 | 114k/148200 |
I have also opted not to look at SH resource production beyond L6 buildings because that is the point at which you can exceed your food, metal, stone, and wood needs for the three temporary structures and still have enough surplus production to afford construction projects.
Here are my assumptions:
1. Your guild never has enough Influence and will rely on the Recruiter almost non-stop.
2. You'll be using the Gemcutter to pay the Assayer's gem costs.
3. The Lumberyard, Farm, Mine, Quarry, and Marketplace will be five buildings you'll keep at maximum available level as your guild increases in level.
4. That you know the Guild Hall counts as one of the buildings required for the "# of buildings at X level" requirements.
Goals:
1. Eventually keep the Assayer, Gemcutter, and Recruiter in the SH without interruption. (This assumes your coffer is not full in these categories.)
2. Bring the Assayer, Gemcutter, and Recruiter to the SH on the same day.
3. Level the guild while building/upgrading the minimum number of buildings necessary to meet requirements.
I am prioritizing being able to keep the Recruiter and Gemcutter in the SH week after week, before you arrive at the point where you'll also be keeping the Assayer around long-term. This is what I am going to be doing with my own guild. Obviously, while your guild is growing, you'll have to make some choices about which of these three resources are most important to your guild in the moment.
If you keep your Lumberyard, Farm, Mine, Quarry, and Marketplace at maximum level, then you can reach level 9 without building any other buildings. Since you don't need huge coffer maximums, I would build a L1 Warehouse somewhere between GL5 and GL9 in order to give you a good boost to your storage. After that, I would ignore it for a while.
The food required to bring all these buildings is very low. It's basically affordable from level L2 and, if you keep the Farm at maximum available level, you'll never really struggle to afford the food cost for the Recruiter.
Wood will be the next most affordable cost for these temporary structures. Since only two of them require wood, you can store enough wood for both at GL6 with a L1 Warehouse. If you don't build a Warehouse, then you'll need to reach GL10 before you can store enough to afford both on the same day. The lowest level buildings required to produce enough wood for both buildings is a L4 Lumberyard and a L4 Milling Yard. Personally, I won't be doing this and I wouldn't recommend it. Once you're able to get your Lumberyard to L6, you only need a L2 Milling Yard. Since wood costs are so low, I would simply accept that you won't be able to keep both the Gemcutter and the Recruiter in the SH at the same time and without interruption to either - until you reach GL12 and have a L6 Lumberyard.
Metal and Stone you need in more or less the same quantities. So when the second support plot opens up for you, pick either a Smelter's Yard or a Masonry Guild and build that. I built a Smelter's Yard on this support plot for three reasons. First, it was the building my guild could afford. Second, the coffer maximum for metal is currently much higher than for other resources. Third, it doesn't matter which one I built because I'll need the other one as soon as the third support plot opens. Depending upon which of these you build, you'll be just 1300 short of the weekly cost for both the Recruiter and the Gemcutter together. (You'll have a L4 Mine/Quarry around this time.)
Post edited by nunya#5309 on
1
Comments
Anyway, as you can see, resource production is going to be more important than boons for small and mid-sized guilds or for guilds with low player contributions, generally. Unfortunately, it means there isn't a lot of room for boons until you reach GL12, unless you're willing to put up with even slower guild progression than you were previously expecting.
** "+1 resources" are high quality resources. They'll be named something like "Copper Ore +1", "Gold Sand +1", "Teak +1", "Alum +1", and so on.
If you are in an alliance with a guild of sufficient level, you can also use the Explorer Scrolls to harvest resources for donations. These are the scrolls that can be purchased from the Generalist and bestow resources used in MasterWork crafting. They are named things like "Explorer Scroll: Cold Run", "Explorer Scroll: Chult", etc. With M15, there will be +1 versions of these resources that can be gathered, as well. Since we cannot currently donate +1 resources, just sell these on the AH. MasterWork crafters are going to be interested in these resources anyway because they want to produce high quality products, and these resources help them with this goal. So this is a way to both boost your own AD purse and your guild's Profession Resources coffer holdings at the same time.
Now, if you'd already gathered up a bunch of these MW resources and hadn't been able to sell them in the AH before M15, then you're in luck! Those resources will be able to be donated to the coffer as Profession Resources. (At least, as of the last time I checked, which was around 7pm US Central Time on 3 November.)
If the developers do fix the problem with donating high quality resources, then Copper Ore (or any other L1 Gathering task item) is going to be pretty much the cheapest and fastest way to fill your guild's Surplus Equipment coffer. It'll cost you an unmodified 1 silver 98 copper to run that task non-stop for three hours, giving you 432 Profession Resources in that time. This is more cost-effective and time efficient than higher level tasks. No, really. I checked. It's true.
I'm figuring that people are sometimes going to have to choose gear from the Seal Vendor or rough astral diamonds. Also, looted epic gear can now be sold to vendors for gold. (Maybe that's also currently possible. I haven't really paid attention because who'll sell it for gold instead of salvaging it? Well, ok, maybe if you have millions on millions of AD, but then you're probably not the target audience here.) So I think we won't be struggling that badly for Surplus Equipment after M15 because those of us who aren't into MW won't need a ton of gold for crafting.
I really wish they would remove the cap on "influence", and allow us to use the "jubilee trader" during all events, that alone would be one big help to those of us with small strongholds, they really need to help us out on something, I am currently GH lvl 4 (this is only how far I have been able to get since SH's started) and need almost 180,000 influence, that is a lot and at that rate it will probably be another 6 mths to a year before I see that amount
I understand that the bigger guilds had to get the higher amounts of stuff to get to the levels they are at, but if the devs would lift some of the caps on stuff needed, after all of this time that SH's have been around, those of us with the smaller guilds could have some relief
Any idea what happens to Labor Crates? As in, if I have some, should I donate them before this goes live, or will I still be able to donate them after?
This is truly an awesome guide. Thanks for the time it took to put together.
Your insights and advice are greatly appreciated. I have recently started putting a recruiter in my SH, but thanks to your guide I will start looking at the others as well. Silly me, I thought, aside from the Mysterious Merchant, all they did was MW stuff.
I have a question though in regards to surplus.
What about the bags you get from Quartermaster Enchants, are they still donateable?
I have a few hundred of those buggers littering my inventory.
To maximize daily reward, you just claim enough for the day and leave the unclaim for another day.
e.g.
You should only claim enough to get the daily 100% in Barovia an omu and leave the unclaims for the other day to maximize your daily reward. Same for claiming 3 quests (in WoD, Dread Ring, Sharanadar, ...) to get the SH daily quest rewards.
The QM bags work the same way they currently do. So I'd just hold onto them and use them either for donating or for enchantments when you need RP.
I am now in Chult trying to get that part done (still haven't finished SKT yet), then on to Omu and then Barovia, it looks like mod 15 may have me running that and trying to catch up also, I do appreciate any and all advice and want to thank you for yours. With some luck (and hopefully some time to play more) I should catch up fairly quick, maybe I'll even go back to SKT and finish it one day (it's the only campaign I got tired of, not even mod 6 burned me out as much as that one lol)
Maybe i am thinking wrong, but the Assayer produces arround 102 Gold every week (7 Days=168 hours, divided by 5=34 times 3=102).
The elemental thingies can be sold for 80 silver if i am not mistaken, so a stack is worth 800 gold. I am not sure about the prices in the AH right now, but i doubt the costs for a stack are over 80k. So you could potentially invest just 10k of ADs per week and get the same ammount of gold. 10% of the possible income of a given day per week. Probably less depending on the price in the AH.
I know that ADs are needed for lots of stuff, but this does not seem like a bad deal, especially since you can save your guild the gemcutter too. You wrote his main purpose was to supply the gems needed for the assayer.
Anything wrong with my math?
If you tend it religiously you'll get 100 gold for the week (168/5=33.6, that .6 works out to 1.8 gold)
If the option is to spend 10k AD for 100 gold or put the Assayer up, I'll opt to put the Assayer up and donate the 10k AD to the coffer.