We should talk, i know you dont want to talk but.......

benyr

Ok I strongly suspect this is going to get moderated, but given the lack of communication from customer services i'm not sure where else to seek clarification.
I am of course referring to the recent exploit / subsequent bans. I don't want to talk about the rights and wrongs, this definitely isn't the place for that but i do have some questions that i think Cryptic / Perfect World needs to address for the communities piece of mind.
There have been no winners in this debacle, some people have lost their accounts, those that haven't have almost certainly lost friends or guild members or at the very least are finding random groups harder to find, and a game that rely's on a critical mass of players has lost a lot of dedicated accounts and suffered a PR disaster.
Whilst I'm sure there were reasons for the serious delay in addressing the exploit and the decision to not make a public announcement about it the was probably taken in best intentions, in hind site it was a bad decision to take and only exacerbated the extent of the problem. I think as a player base we require an apology for the way its been handled and assurances that lessons have been learnt, and going forward on a best endeavour's basis they will not be repeated. As customers of Cryptic / Perfect world we need to know out time and financial investment is in safe hands.
We also need to know what is being done to handle the fall out for players still in the game. I'm in a guild (that's also an alliance helm guild) where the entire leadership has been perma banned. The guild is in limbo, will provisions be made to allow for existing members to take ownership? or are we all expected to walk away from a guild we've spent years building?

greywynd

30 days and a rank 6 should be able to take over the guild.

benyr

Thank you

kvet

When all Rank 7s of a guild are inactive for a period of time (I don't recall the number of days off the top of my head... 14 I think?) then another member of the guild can claim leadership when they log in. I don't know exactly how that works, to be honest - whether it's only Rank 6s, or if *any* member can claim it, but there is already a provision for guilds whose leaders have left the game (willingly or not) to self-rescue.

As to the others issues... I'm not sure whether this was really handled poorly or not. Seems to me people that deserved bans or other penalties for cheating got what was coming to them. My guild/alliance appears to be just as active as it was before, though it remains to be seen if any random individuals were effective, and I haven't had any additional issues pulled together groups for RQs. I'm not really sure I'd see it as a PR disaster to be honest. Are players upset? Sure - especially the ones that cheated, got caught, and now have no accounts. But, a game that properly polices itself and prevents cheaters from ruining the gaming experience of legitimate players who actually follow the rules (including the one where you don't exploit bugs in the game) seems to be to be a game that has effective oversight. EVERY game will have exploits and bugs, so yes, Cryptic - like every game company - can always do better at catching those, but at the same time, it is CHEATING to capitalize on their mistakes regardless and players should simply know better than to exploit bugs that are clearly bugs. And this hunt exploit was clearly an exploit (unlike, say, the chest bug where it really wasn't clear to anyone that that wasn't WAI, the opposite actually since it felt very much like that's how things should be working - which is why Cryptic didn't ban people over it).

So... I guess in general, I disagree with the premise of your post. I agree it's important for Cryptic to keep the lines of communication open, and they could have done better in that respect in this case. But on the whole, I think they handled this situation effectively. At the end of the day, cheaters (aka people that were ruining the game for people that don't cheat) were penalized and that, to me, is the most important thing.

Final note: Anyone that really thinks this will be the end of the game and Neverwinter is done for, all I can say is: LOL

benyr

Many thanks for your advice re the guild.
Like i said i dont want to talk about rights and wrongs of the bans, its a surefire way to get the post removed 😉, i just can't shake the feeling that by standing idly by for such a long period of time whilst knowledge of the exploit spread, cryptic/ perfect world whoever were complicit in just how badly the situation got out of hand, and id like some assurances that they wont let a problem like this run and run again in the future for everyones benefit.

meirami

Some players are like looters during a hurricane, but crazy enough to leave their name, home address, and how much they took.

kvet

Ok, fair enough - but I guess I'm saying that... while Cryptic's communication out to it's customers (aka players) could certainly be better, on the whole I don't think this situation was handled particularly poorly (again -aside from it's communications). PWE took extra time to analyze what happened so they could minimize false positives, and they handed out punishments for violating the rules.

The magnitude is not Cryptic's or PWE's fault. It's noteworthy, perhaps, if indeed the numbers are high but that's irrelevant. The game will certainly recover and be better for having fewer cheaters in play. The fact is, from my viewpoint, Cryptic and PWE handled this situation about as well as they could have, and the only thing missing was a formal statement once everything was done stating exactly what the exploit was (no risk since it was fixed) and that bans and penalties have been handed out to those found in violation of the Terms of Service, etc etc... and if that was you and you have further questions, here's the link to PWE Customer Service because, IMPORTANT NOTE: Cryptic doesn't actually handle this stuff, PWE CS does, so please talk to them if you feel the need.

benyr

I dont think were particularly differing in our opinions, neither of us is arguing against bans and both think the communication should have been better. The only difference is that i think the time taken to act was unacceptable and you dont.
Put it down to backgrounds, i work in a heavily regulated environment. If my company had an issue with our systems and took a fraction of the time to resolve it, the regulatory body would not only pursue those that exploited the system, they would also hold my employer and key employees accountable for enabling the ongoing exploits by not closing down the loop hole fast enough. Maybe behind the scenes perfect world are lettng cryptic know theyre not happy with the time taken to resolve? Thats where my personal opionion that we need assurances the inaction wont be repeated again come from. Not that we will get any of course, just felt the need to air my frustration.

kvet

I definitely get the need to air frustration. I'm very impressed by the soft touch approach the community team has taken thus far, I think it go a long way to helping the situation.

constantmule

benyr said:

Ok I strongly suspect this is going to get moderated, but given the lack of communication from customer services i'm not sure where else to seek clarification.
I am of course referring to the recent exploit / subsequent bans. I don't want to talk about the rights and wrongs, this definitely isn't the place for that but i do have some questions that i think Cryptic / Perfect World needs to address for the communities piece of mind.
There have been no winners in this debacle, some people have lost their accounts, those that haven't have almost certainly lost friends or guild members or at the very least are finding random groups harder to find, and a game that rely's on a critical mass of players has lost a lot of dedicated accounts and suffered a PR disaster.
Whilst I'm sure there were reasons for the serious delay in addressing the exploit and the decision to not make a public announcement about it the was probably taken in best intentions, in hind site it was a bad decision to take and only exacerbated the extent of the problem. I think as a player base we require an apology for the way its been handled and assurances that lessons have been learnt, and going forward on a best endeavour's basis they will not be repeated. As customers of Cryptic / Perfect world we need to know out time and financial investment is in safe hands.
We also need to know what is being done to handle the fall out for players still in the game. I'm in a guild (that's also an alliance helm guild) where the entire leadership has been perma banned. The guild is in limbo, will provisions be made to allow for existing members to take ownership? or are we all expected to walk away from a guild we've spent years building?

actually my guild and alliance is doing just fine, im getting randoms even faster, the chat is less toxic in zone..and the lag is better...... yes..we the legit players ALL won. if you cheat you should be perma banned. that goes for all online games.

tripsofthrymr

Discussion of guild ownership logistics in light of leaders who are perma-banned is fine. Please keep it on topic and avoid blaming/ranting/flaming.

greywynd

From what I understand it is 30 days/rank under 7. Rank 6 30 days. Rank 5 60 days. etc.

benyr

Many thanks for the clarification, so there is a small guild in our alliance that had very few leaders. Their highest remaining rank is rank 3 so 120 days before leadership can be resolved for them. Does anyone know if this can expediated in light of the recent events?

meirami

You should definitely send a ticket to the customer service: https://support.arcgames.com/app/support_center

They're the only ones that can help.

benyr

Thanks, will do

thevampinator

Well I hope for your guild maybe you will need to take up a leadership role its sad, maybe some of the leaders will be able to come back. Well got to look on the bright-side and have hope. Your guild is most likely not alone. With so many guilds effected. I'm sure you will need to try and take up the leadership position yourself. You might have difficulties with that. But well I hope your guild is able to recover along with most of the guilds effected by this.

kvet

It's incredibly unlikely CS will step in - but you never know and it's definitely worth asking

kvet

I asked CS about it this morning, here’s what they said:

——
After 30 days of inactivity, leadership should fall to the next highest ranking player at that time.

If they are inactive, it will continue to fall until an active player can claim leadership.
——

I don’t know if it’s 30 days per rank, or if it just automatically cascades down until a rank has an active member to claim it. But there’s the official word on it anyway.

benyr

Many thanks for the clarification. Guess ill just see what happens in 30 days and take it from there

tazz4now

I, too, believe it's 30 days for each rank in a guild, the small guild you are talking about might be able to get customer support to expedite this to unlock certain abilities, they might want to name the leaders in their message, just in case.

I also want to add something regarding the situation that has caused a lot of confusion and anger, just a thought I had about all of this (since we, as players, have no clue about inner workings), it is possible that the perma bans were done due to them continuing after the announcement was made on this forum by Julia, since we only know about ourselves and real world friends, it would be hard for us to know, but it's just a thought I had....sorry if this shouldn't have been added here