Tr in PvP. Attacking enemies while stealthed will reveal you to other players

kalina311

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1242595/m15-trickster-rogue-class-changes/p1

time for a new meta : D

This Might actually bring some back to pvp or force people to change thier class

easy mode = off

slysnow

I know a few people on ps4 that dropped alot of real cash building a tr for pvp. I know they're mad. Fair is fair though. Stealth, High CA, guaranteed crit, 85% deflect severity, not needing Valhalla to be tanky... about time they get knocked down to the reality of everyone else.

Que all the TR q_q threads

kalina311

Finally a cw in mod 15 pvp might have better build choices in pvp i saw a few "cheap" ones myself"

finally some stuff to bounce off you and James its been dead a while

kalina311

slysnow#2290 said:

I know a few people on ps4 that dropped alot of real cash building a tr for pvp. I know they're mad. Fair is fair though. Stealth, High CA, guaranteed crit, 85% deflect severity, not needing Valhalla to be tanky... about time they get knocked down to the reality of everyone else.



Que all the TR q_q threads

There was an early mod where they briefly tested the stealth reveal on trs in pvp and there was lots of whining
good thing they have perfected it now ..the stealth reveal that is .. the whining has already been perfected : d

slysnow

We've already figured out one very cheap build. We just can't test it yet as we are on ps4. Both of us are already essentially untouchable now if we use our tank setup (1v1 that includes vs trs). If that patch goes through as is and works things will be interesting to say the least lol.

iimrmonkeyii

@kalina311
@slysnow#2290

Hmmm... I'm not trying to burst your bubble of hope here. I really mean that. However, just a warning, those changes are going to make the TR insane in PvP, not nerf it. The stealth reveal thing is only going to hurt TRs that are spamming Cloud of Steel from stealth. Cloud of Steel doesn't do good damage anyway. Also, any decent player (not just TRs), that isn't stupid, already took off all the "reflect" damage proc things (to counter Mane), so you will only have the scrub TRs being revealed from stealth. Just imagine what the "soup" of buffs below is going to do to the TR in PvP.

Gloaming Cut (Reworked): Damage increased by ~25%
Gloaming Cut: Charge time reduced to 0.25s (down from 0.7s)
Smoke Bomb: Stealth: Now grants Combat Advantage against all enemies in Smoke Bomb
Smoke Bomb: Now reduces the cooldown by 2s per rank-up
Impossible to Catch: Each rank now reduces the cooldown by 2 seconds
Courage Breaker: Now places a 12.5% Damage Resistance Reduction Debuff on the target, +2.5% per rank
Courage Breaker: Duration is now 8 seconds (down from 10 for PvE, up from 5 for PvP)
Oppressive Darkness: Damage increased by ~39%
Exposed Weakness (New): Moved from the Executioner tree to this tree (Sabo)
Gutterborn's Touch (Reworked): Dealing combat advantage damage to an enemy increases your Armor Penetration and Damage Dealt by 2/4/6/8/10%
Press the Advantage (Reworked): Now causes Impossible to Catch to increase your Combat Advantage damage by 2/4/6/8/10% for its duration.
Master Infighter (Reworked): Deflecting an attack grants you the "Reversal" buff for 6 seconds. "Reversal" - Causes you to deal 2/4/6/8/10% more damage and take 2/4/6/8/10% less damage from the target whose attack you deflected

All of that fits into one build. All of that is going to be added to the already excellent damage of a Sabo build.

For example (using my TR for the adjustment):


My TR will lose in Mod 15

1.) Arterial Cut (15% Crit Severity)
2.) Vicious Pursuit (5% Damage)
3.) Gutterborn's (10% Power/ 10% Armor Ignored)
4.) Ambusher's Haste (5-25% Damage based on Stealth) You don't have to drop this (see italics section below). However, I think it will be best since the new meta will be focused around Smoke Bomb.



My TR will gain in Mod 15

1.) Gloaming Cut + ~25% Damage
2.) Gloaming Cut = Wayyy easier to land on stunned targets, behind shields, in-between dodges, and on focused/low-health targets.
3.) Combat Advantage up even outside of Stealth (roughly a 30% Damage boost outside of stealth according to math nerds elsewhere). Look below for this interacting with Oppressive Darkness as well!
------If this source of CA works like Nightmare Wizardry or the other sources of CA, jesus... lol
4.) Courage Breaker 20% DR Debuff (very good team utility since CB is easy to spot/focus)
5.) Courage Breaker buffed to 8 seconds.
6.) Oppressive Darkness + ~39% Damage
7.) Exposed Weakness + 25% Armor Ignored
8.) Impossible to Catch up-time buff (and CB) allows for less recovery/more power
-----moving 3K Recovery will probably still allow for daily spam/ITC perma and negate missing power from Gutterborn's.
9.) Gutterborn's + 10% Damage + 10% Armor Penetration (2K for me, roughly)
10.) Significantly less CD on Smoke Bomb (Yikes)! lol
11.) Press the Advantage +10% CA Damage
12.) Master Infighter (basically a baby Feytouched) +10% Outgoing Damage, - 10% Incoming Damage
13.) Personally, my TR will also gain 2 CHA (+2% CA Damage) as I won't need the extra INT for ITC anymore (most likely).

Don't forget to consider that Oppressive Darkness is fully piercing damage and Procs when TRs have CA. Now they will have that (OD) both in and out of stealth...yikes.

Note: If you are a TR lurking here for your build you can keep Ambusher's Haste and avoid taking Master Infighter. However, I think the free baby Feytouched feat looks awesome.

****Edit: If you do this ^, keep Arterial Cut and Vicious Pursuit from Executioner as well****

-----Most of the changes to the things actually used in PvP are a buff. Look at Gutterborn's for a prime example. A flat, multiplicative, 10% damage buff is significantly more valuable than 10% more power, specifically so when you are able to relocate extra power due to other changes. The 10% Armor Penetration is slightly less valuable. However, Armor Penetration gives a different %boost to Defenses Ignored than Power's %boost to Outgoing Damage, with each additional value.

I am sorry. I know that isn't what you want to see or read. However, this is the same as the Mod 14 changes. Many players said "RIP PvP TR" and we all know what actually happened. When the TRs figure out that Sabo build I just described above it is "GG" like we have never seen before...

Just to clarify, I am not saying that TRs are buffed in Mod 15 (as a whole). The poor PvE TRs got hit badddd. Sorry PvE guys... However the PvP TR is going to be Superman this Mod.

The only change for PvP that I am unsure of is this:

Bloodbath: This power now deals damage over 2 seconds (down from 2.7 seconds)
Bloodbath: Now deals damage 9 times, down from 10 times.

However, does that ^ really look game-changing considering all the buffs listed above?

khandran

Yeeah I agree with monkey also my thoughts with TR changes...quite ridiculous they totally don't care about feedbacks so many gave for pvp and TR...TR exec got back piercing damage too and all the buffs above + exec tree is not only good option, sabo will still be perma stealth and do very strong damage sigh...
Not that I care so much anymore...have made under 50 matches and don't play a lot this mod in general nwo.... pvp will stil stay dead with all that goes wrong and stay unfixed...

slysnow

The same thing was mentioned prior to mod 14. That while yes they lost piercing they're still very lethal e.t.c. While in dom, trs currently hardly scratch me. The only ones that do use mane, attack while stealth followed by BB. Not being attacked while in stealth eliminates free dps against me.

Its not just trs that figure things out. Other classes can as well. High burst gfs were also considered to be legal this mod. Already created a build that neutralizes that burst.

I'll give an example of what I mean. My CW as is can reach the damage resist "cap" while having 70% chance deflect (no I do not use eclipse, it's terrible) the changes to renegade allow for multiple buffs at once. One buff adds 20% deflect. This means I reduced all incoming damage by 80% then with have at minimum a 90% chance to deflect the 20% damage the still goes through by 60%. 100k hits will be reduced to 8-12k, I currently do this but with only a 70% chance to deflect.

Trs using sod now I just stand in it and watch their hp shred as i take little to no damage. There is a new one rotation they use. It does not work against me as I am not one shottable or one rotational.

Like I said, it's not just trs that adapt. Its not just trs getting some buffs. Cws strongest single target encounter is getting buffed. Mod 14 my disintegrate vs even tanky people has hit for over 100k, again its receiving a buff...

kalina311

@iimrmonkeyii thanks for supporting why Tr stealth needs even more of a nerf in pvp : D

no my hopes were not up.. at 1300 posts+ *sigh*

iimrmonkeyii

slysnow#2290 said:

The same thing was mentioned prior to mod 14. That while yes they lost piercing they're still very lethal e.t.c. While in dom, trs currently hardly scratch me. The only ones that do use mane, attack while stealth followed by BB. Not being attacked while in stealth eliminates free dps against me.

I definitely agree with you that TRs are easy to counter. I played my DC and CW for like 2 weeks each, and had no problem with TRs. This is even more true against Executioner TRs. They have a very easy counter. Don't let them do significant damage during the SoD window. However you accomplish that, you will be fine. You do it with tanky stats. I was doing it by dodging throughout the window. Even a TR using Mane is not a problem at all. After they BB or CB the first time, use a lion and attack them (after SoD window) to make the Mane useless.

The problem is that most people can't figure out how to do that. That is why you see so many players complaining here. However there are a few TRs who have been playing the Sabo Path. This path has a ton of full piercing damage, so it doesn't matter what your defensive stats are. This build (and its piercing procs) is getting a huge damage buff in Mod 15. They also made it so that stealth regeneration is no longer fully halted by incoming damage, which is a significant indirect buff to Sabo. This is due to the fact that Sabo TRs were stuck at empty stealth, unless they were using shadow strike.

All I am saying is...

When the TRs figure out how to adapt to these changes they will have:

1.) large amounts of consistent piercing damage in (and out!) of stealth.
2.) more durability
3.) more ITC
4.) more team utility
5.) more BB, because they will gain more action points with CA up better (not so significant)

That is really all that will change after the good TR players adapt and utilize all the new buffs. Nobody is attacking you in stealth and dealing decent damage. Only Cloud of Steel currently attacks you and doesn't reveal the TR. At the moment, everything else removes stealth because it drains it entirely, or forces the TR to go into melee range to use the given ability.

slysnow#2290 said:

I'll give an example of what I mean. My CW as is can reach the damage resist "cap" while having 70% chance deflect (no I do not use eclipse, it's terrible) the changes to renegade allow for multiple buffs at once. One buff adds 20% deflect. This means I reduced all incoming damage by 80% then with have at minimum a 90% chance to deflect the 20% damage the still goes through by 60%. 100k hits will be reduced to 8-12k, I currently do this but with only a 70% chance to deflect.



Trs using sod now I just stand in it and watch their hp shred as i take little to no damage. There is a new one rotation they use. It does not work against me as I am not one shottable or one rotational.



Like I said, it's not just trs that adapt. Its not just trs getting some buffs. Cws strongest single target encounter is getting buffed. Mod 14 my disintegrate vs even tanky people has hit for over 100k, again its receiving a buff...

This is what I am trying to point out. Those defensive stats are great against Mod 14 Executioner TRs. However, the Mod 15 Sabo TR's damage isn't going to care what your defensive stats are. The piercing damage (which is the main source of damage there) will negate your defenses even if you had -1000% incoming damage and 100% deflect chance. You will need self healing and HP full force to counter the piercing spam.

I do agree that CWs get a nice buff in PvP. I am actually really excited to try mine out!