A pure dps DO lacks some recovery and misses either devinity-gain or AP gain to hold up buffs perfectly, but agreed the difference is small. Dps-DC never was a focus in this game for 99,9% of player, nor needed that much since all focus on buffs. I play one of the most powerfull classes in this game myself happily, no other class can do what my DC can. The class is set in stone and allways wanted, now the dps spec is wanted less for buffs, since this game is all about buffs, wich is the simple result of far too powerfull buffs in a hole, the core problem for many conflicts and a fact many specs and classes suffer from since long. DO-DC is back in the spot, where most other classes or path allready are and where it allready were, being optional and not essential. Welcome DO-DC, you might ask for setups like 1 tank, 1 leader 3 dps and fight for a dps-role in the future, that´s what many player/classes asked for in the past.
The fact that one tree is from minor use or benefit in meta endgame for the sake of balance doesn´t hurt my DC that much tbh. My AC-DC can run every content all day long and am happy to pair with mof, hunter, templock on buffer side also, i prefer class diversity. Respeccing for AC is not that expensive than spec for dps imo, I specced maybe 1000 times between damnation, fury , templock, same as rightous, faithfull and virtous in the past and tact, conqueror etc, nothing new to me. There should have been a way to keep DO in advantage over AC at lower gear, but how should that work without being back again near double-meta, nerfing HG down to 20% instead of TI maybe, also a solution, same result I am sure , many upset player. They could have nerfed AC-powershare, or they could have made TI a 10% buff, but they obviously decided to end that double setup, no perfect solution but a decision I can understand.
Anyway, every DO-DC that wants to run dps can do so with his friends. That´s what most dps warlocks and dps-CW do and will do in mod 15 same as tact-GF who want to tank. NWO channels are elitist, lack in flexibility and filled with many bad player anyway.
I said this in that stupid "EPIC DUNGEON PARTY COMPOSITION PROBLEMATICS" thread. I will say it again.
The classes were already in pretty good shape @balanced#2849
Before the changes: 1.) Every single class was welcome (and completely viable) in end game content. 2.) Almost every single class had 2 or more viable builds to play, even for end game content.
After the changes: 1.) Some classes are without a doubt inferior, and have no alternative option to be viable for end game content. 2.) Most classes are going to have only one viable build/role to do end game content.
Conclusion: I am sorry, but your team listened to the wrong players here. Players were complaining about something that they didn't understand and now we have a serious imbalance. It isn't necessarily your (the team's) fault, but maybe next time you will weigh the credibility you give to some of the sources of feedback.
What did we need this mod?
More dungeons.
Your most invested player-base has been begging you (the team) to release more dungeons each mod, less "grindy" campaigns, and avoid HAMSTER up the decently balanced classes [recently].
You (the team) might have done these changes to lower exclusivity. Go back and read those changes. They will clearly result in the opposite effect.
I think in mod 14, the classes have been very balanced.
Hold it right there ! Nope! 4buffer+1 dps is not "balanced". Its actually very rare and unheard in mmos. 3dps+tank+heal is the balanced party.
TRs power change to direct dmg buffs prolly the first step before they nerf the powershare from DC/OP. If not, they should... DO DC nerf wasn't an elegant thing but now you can bring templock and buff-HRs instead.
stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
I think in mod 14, the classes have been very balanced.
Hold it right there ! Nope! 4buffer+1 dps is not "balanced". Its actually very rare and unheard in mmos. 3dps+tank+heal is the balanced party.
TRs power change to direct dmg buffs prolly the first step before they nerf the powershare from DC/OP. If not, they should... DO DC nerf wasn't an elegant thing but now you can bring templock and buff-HRs instead.
we were already seeing a lot of games with temps and hrs. I've played with all kinds of groups this mod. it's been far more inclusive than the mod before it. the four support meta is actually really flexible in build success.
I said this in that stupid "EPIC DUNGEON PARTY COMPOSITION PROBLEMATICS" thread. I will say it again.
The classes were already in pretty good shape @balanced#2849
Before the changes: 1.) Every single class was welcome (and completely viable) in end game content. 2.) Almost every single class had 2 or more viable builds to play, even for end game content.
After the changes: 1.) Some classes are without a doubt inferior, and have no alternative option to be viable for end game content. 2.) Most classes are going to have only one viable build/role to do end game content.
Conclusion: I am sorry, but your team listened to the wrong players here. Players were complaining about something that they didn't understand and now we have a serious imbalance. It isn't necessarily your (the team's) fault, but maybe next time you will weigh the credibility you give to some of the sources of feedback.
What did we need this mod?
More dungeons.
Your most invested player-base has been begging you (the team) to release more dungeons each mod, less "grindy" campaigns, and avoid HAMSTER up the decently balanced classes [recently].
You (the team) might have done these changes to lower exclusivity. Go back and read those changes. They will clearly result in the opposite effect.
absolutely this
4
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Classes were never balanced in mod 14 and you can still run every class in endcontent in mod 15. There are player who simply run outside meta and did not care about it like I do in general. And there are player that got no interest in balance, repeat false stuff all day long and maybe run meta 24/7
OP >>>> GF - tank DC >>> devo - leader TR/GWF >>> CW/SW - dps DC >>> all others (OP excludet)-support only to name some of them
Even repeating it 100 times a day won´t change the obvious, sounds more like brainwashing forummember
mod 15: GF is dps or support/tank same as mod 14 OP is tank/leader same as mod 14 DC is leader same as mod 14 (only one paragon dropped of and double meta is gone, a good decision in general) GWF is GWF TR has to show what is possible, after being top dps in mod 14, 99% say it´s dead from short test, we will see Hunter is same as mod 14 dps or buff CW is support (or dps) same as mod 14 (not sure how good dps looks like after reading though 100 complaints right from the start, we will see) SW is support (or dps) same as mod 14 Most classes can run as dps in endcontent (GWF/TR/Hunter/GF), some are not first choice vs top dps outside premades (CW/SW), damantion lock is an unknown variable i mod 15 though. So near nothing changes except maybe for TR (would need some more tests I guess) and DO-DC concerning double DC setup.
DO-DC: 1.35 x (1.2 canceled in mod 15) x 1.15 (canceled in mod 15) + 12.5% debuff (+10% in mod 15) AC-DC: 1.2 x 1.12 x powerbuff ~100k at 56k basepower x debuff 10%+15%+17,5%
In mod 14 no other buffer than DO/DC added to that AC/DC is able to buff with a multiplier x 1.863 + debuff 12,5%, debuffs get deminished at higher numbers and drop of significant. In mod 15 DO DC will not have access to endgame meta, due to nerfs
Classes were never balanced in mod 14 OP >>>> GF - tank DC >>> devo - leader TR/GWF >>> CW/SW - dps DC >>> all others (OP excludet)-support only to name some of them
Nah in mod 14 it looked more like this...
Note: I think it is quite silly to try to illustrate class strength this way (because in Mod 14 there was so much variety to viable compositions), but I am just responding in a parallel fashion to show a point.
Pure Tank = OP > GF Tank/HDPS Hybrid = GF > OP Pure HDPS = GF/TR/GWF > HR > CW/SW HDPS/Buff/Debuff Mix = CW/SW/HR > DC > Full Buff = DC > SW/HR Full Debuff = CW > everybody else... Power Share = DC > OP > SW Healing = OP/SW (insignificant difference due to immortality) > DC
Now you can argue with me all you want, but I promise you, that is wayyy more accurate. Also, that is a silly way to try to compare the classes. This is because there was SOOO much variety and different current setups call on the newly invited toons for different loadouts/builds/focuses to shape out a beautiful composition, and run. Also, every single "DPS" class made Orcus, in ToNG, look like a redcap from Sharandar (even before mod 14).
Lets recap...
Which classes were best at something (or at least close enough to tie at position number 1)? OP GF TR GWF CW SW HR DC
Ohhhh jesus, that is everyone.
Which classes were best at two things (or at least close enough to tie at position number 1)? OP GF CW SW DC
As you can see, most of the classes were even in this position. GWF/TR/HR are not, because they were unfortunately bound to being almost full HDPS. 18K Full Buff/Debuff GWF LFG CR! Sorry XD. lol
Just to clearify, I'm NOT saying that Mod 15 is junk. I am also NOT saying that the developers are idiots and are ruining the game.
However, I am saying that all classes were excellent at something (sometimes even multiple things) in Mod 14. All classes were welcome in groups and you didn't need some 4 support man party to clear a CR in a decent time. If you did, somebody [or some people] was doing something wrong.
The exclusivity of Mod 14 was due to players, not class balance. Forget about that, it isn't even worth trying to argue against. Just take a trip to various YouTube channels and you can find plenty of examples of that.
Bottom line (TL;DR)...
In Mod 15, having 4-6 new dungeons would have been way more beneficial than a bunch of major class balancing re-works.
"Needing meta" is a sorry excuse if plenty of players are doing fine without it. Also, Mod 15 will now [only] bring some new meta (any changes will), so there will simply be new forms of that same excuse for more balancing.
Classes were never balanced in mod 14 OP >>>> GF - tank DC >>> devo - leader TR/GWF >>> CW/SW - dps DC >>> all others (OP excludet)-support only to name some of them
Nah in mod 14 it looked more like this...
Note: I think it is quite silly to try to illustrate class strength this way (because in Mod 14 there was so much variety to viable compositions), but I am just responding in a parallel fashion to show a point.
Pure Tank = OP > GF Tank/HDPS Hybrid = GF > OP Pure HDPS = GF/TR/GWF > HR > CW/SW HDPS/Buff/Debuff Mix = CW/SW/HR > DC > Full Buff = DC > SW/HR Full Debuff = CW > everybody else... Power Share = DC > OP > SW Healing = OP/SW (insignificant difference due to immortality) > DC
Now you can argue with me all you want, but I promise you, that is wayyy more accurate. Also, that is a silly way to try to compare the classes. This is because there was SOOO much variety and different current setups call on the newly invited toons for different loadouts/builds/focuses to shape out a beautiful composition, and run. Also, every single "DPS" class made Orcus, in ToNG, look like a redcap from Sharandar (even before mod 14).
Lets recap...
Which classes were best at something (or at least close enough to tie at position number 1)? OP GF TR GWF CW SW HR DC
Ohhhh jesus, that is everyone.
Which classes were best at two things (or at least close enough to tie at position number 1)? OP GF CW SW DC
As you can see, most of the classes were even in this position. GWF/TR/HR are not, because they were unfortunately bound to being almost full HDPS. 18K Full Buff/Debuff GWF LFG CR! Sorry XD. lol
Just to clearify, I'm NOT saying that Mod 15 is junk. I am also NOT saying that the developers are idiots and are ruining the game.
However, I am saying that all classes were excellent at something (sometimes even multiple things) in Mod 14. All classes were welcome in groups and you didn't need some 4 support man party to clear a CR in a decent time. If you did, somebody [or some people] was doing something wrong.
The exclusivity of Mod 14 was due to players, not class balance. Forget about that, it isn't even worth trying to argue against. Just take a trip to various YouTube channels and you can find plenty of examples of that.
Bottom line (TL;DR)...
In Mod 15, having 4-6 new dungeons would have been way more beneficial than a bunch of major class balancing re-works.
"Needing meta" is a sorry excuse if plenty of players are doing fine without it. Also, Mod 15 will now [only] bring some new meta (any changes will), so there will simply be new forms of that same excuse for more balancing.
In mod 15 DO DC will not have access to endgame meta, due to nerfs
Ok, in short If you just break it down to the point wich class was the most dispesable it will enlighten it. 5 spots in a group. DC>OP>>2.DC>temp/buff-hunter/mof/GF > TR>GWF>Hunter
10 spots in a group COPD DC>OP>2.DC>>3.DC>2. OP>temp>mof>buffhunter>GF>TR>GWF codg shows you pretty good what happens in 99% of all codg runs I did. 1.+2. 2xOP------------------------set in stone 3.-5. 3xDC------------------------set in stone 6.---Templock-------------------- optional but near 100% 7.---GF tact-----------------------optional, but near 100% 8.---CW-mof----------------------optional, but near 80%, if not Buffhunter present 20% 9. dps any class but normally TR or GWF or Hunter or GF, except OP/DC 10.dps any class but normally TR or GWF or Hunter or GF, except OP/DC
You see there is a problem in NWO. Dps classes are from minor interest compared to buffer. Two classes outshine all others by far (OP/DC) Same as 4 dps classes outshine the 2 that are left, otherwise they would not be that present right? Now it´s your turn to tell me how this could be corrected. -> they allready started doing so 2 years ago but are pretty slow and sloppy with their work.
That is a perfect example. I have done plenty of runs (in 5 man parties) with other compositions. It doesn't make a huge difference. You don't need x2 DC, and you don't need an OP in every run. That is absurd to try to argue. You are just making examples based of what people call for in the P.E. (or those big public channels). Many players think you need some "ideal" setup for the content, you don't. There will always be some "ideal" setup.
Just because people call for some specific compositions (like they have almost every single mod), does not mean that you "need" that to complete something in a good time. That just means that players think they do.
1.+2. 2xOP------------------------set in stone 3.-5. 3xDC------------------------set in stone
This is another perfect example. In fact, having x3 DC is a joke. That is hilarious that people actually felt they needed that. Those things are not "set in stone". If you are a group of decent players, you can easily run CoDG with only one DC or one OP. I ran a 5 man CoDG without a DC. It took less than 20 minutes.
Why is it that other players don't need to run x3 DCs, or x2 OP, and you do?
You are describing LFG chats, not class balance. Try some other setups and you might be surprised at the similarity...
If support really has such a huge advantage over DPS classes, then why does my CW have to stay invisible 99% of the time?
That is a perfect example. I have done plenty of runs (in 5 man parties) with other compositions. It doesn't make a huge difference. You don't need x2 DC, and you don't need an OP in every run. That is absurd to try to argue. You are just making examples based of what people call for in the P.E. (or those big public channels). Many players think you need some "ideal" setup for the content, you don't. There will always be some "ideal" setup.
Just because people call for some specific compositions (like they have almost every single mod), does not mean that you "need" that to complete something in a good time. That just means that players think they do.
1.+2. 2xOP------------------------set in stone 3.-5. 3xDC------------------------set in stone
This is another perfect example. In fact, having x3 DC is a joke. That is hilarious that people actually felt they needed that. Those things are not "set in stone". If you are a group of decent players, you can easily run CoDG with only one DC or one OP. I ran a 5 man CoDG without a DC. It took less than 20 minutes.
Why is it that other players don't need to run x3 DCs, or x2 OP, and you do?
You are describing LFG chats, not class balance. Try some other setups and you might be surprised at the similarity...
If support really has such a huge advantage over DPS classes, then why does my CW have to stay invisible 99% of the time?
No, sry you are wrong. This actually is the meta in every run, concerning codg 100%, chosen by all player, premade/random whatever. If you skip that second AC and that prot pally , take a tact GF and two other striekr you will be even better, if positioning is 100% perfect and noone fails. But all prefer the "safety meta setuP" all day long, low risk, safe AD, and no, that are not a bunch of noobs i did maybe 1000codg runs, that were maybe >80% of the playerbase on PC in my timezone. you can do name me better combos, but in the end, it´s from no meaning if cradle baby is melt in 2 or 2.5 seconds per phase. Anyway your dps group is allways like 2 dps, GF, templock+DO due to the fact that, pop is group a intern multiplier same as TI is. Double 3xbane + double exalt (1xempow) on 2 main dps simply make dps N°3 and 4 obsolte, their dps is down to 40% of the dps the player in group 1 deals. there are other options running SW-GF-DO-dps-dps and AC-devoOP-DO-dpsGF-dps but no matter how you put it it´s allways a max buffer setup. And yes you can run tong with 5 TR´s, but who cares what you do in your freetime ? About 2xDC -> it is actually meta, combined with devo OP +GF +xy, no need to argue on your side. Not knowing the numbers simply makes me shake my head and indicates that you don´t know how those 10 sec kills are done? Show me a compareable videos without 2 DC´s then, there is none. Too lazy to do the math for you. This is gonna end in mod 15 since simultan eFF+eExalt (glitch) ends, combined with eBtS, HG dDG plus a ton of powerbuffs on top.
You stated that you have no interest in meta runs, same as I don´t run those setups actually, it´s boring. But that does not change the fact that a big bunch of player do stick with it all day long. Ask those "100% DO DC player" in forum, they obviously don´t have a AC spec and run 24/7 with another AC/DC.
And in case you did not recognize that 4x buffer runs are pretty common or normality, no matter if tong or CR then amybe you play on another planet, or 24/7 with the same guildies inside a bubble. Hoping the best for your CW mof, met plenty of them lately, but they were not invisible at all, he might reappear some day
The classes were far away from balanced. All the changes that developers are doing circa MOD13 are absolutely amazing! I can only applaud them for all their work and effort done. For the final examples of improvements recently I'd buy them a beer! Neverwinter playerbase tends to be quite panicky and wants to grab on exploit bandwaggon a bit far too often. I recently found out that there were people who overused some exploit giving them more than 100K AD daily? And they got banned. Hahaha! I say - GOOD. Learn your lesson, get down to earth. You got away easy as most of the bans aren't permanent to my knowledge. Class changes are extremely nice addition and are wholeheartedly welcomed by everyone who understands class balance in general. There is still a lot to see and do afterwards, but important thing that everyone should acknowledge is that there is WILLINGNESS to change and take on that hard job. This had to be done and it was done in the least painful way! It is important that there is progress. Devs learn from past mistakes, players learn from past mistakes. But nobody gives up on offering constructive solutions. I can completely see that developers took great care with the approach, but the only concern to me it seems to be with the TR changes. As I do not main TR, I'm still hoping to see what builds people will come up with and compare with other things in runs. I just heard of the news, getting preview ready and we'll see. I do not see nerfs with the CW class, I see that there was flawed math and I see decisive effort to dispose of some POST MOD 6 wrongs. And all of the changes only prove just how redeeming the whole ideal actually is. CW finally got some upgrade to the overall damage. It took 9 MODS for that to happen. Can't you just be happy, for once? Say "thank you", for once? Give some positive encouragement? I remember outcries when Lightning enchantment was fixed in order not to multiproc. Ever since I've no heart to anyone who wants to utilize bugs and exploits in order to gain unfair advantage. And as a CW I can still see that Disintegrate as a spell is way too potent and needs longer CD.
Guys, please remember - DO NOT think of it as a permanent change as it is not a permanent change. This is so easy to figure out! These sorts of changes usually will leave some residue and it will get sorted out afterwards. Healers should heal! Anyone having problem with Clerics healing should rethink RPGs in general.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
This actually is the meta in every run, concerning codg 100%, chosen by all player, premade/random whatever.
That is maybe every single run that you did. That doesn't make it a necessity. Players call for that, I get it. That doesn't mean that there is some crazy imbalance.
you can do name me better combos, but in the end, it´s from no meaning if cradle baby is melt in 2 or 2.5 seconds per phase.
That was explained elsewhere. I am not going to spend the time finding it. In my experience, the baby phases ended in "2 or 2.5 seconds" even if we didn't have the exact safety net setup.
Not knowing the numbers simply makes me shake my head and indicates that you don´t know how those 10 sec kills are done? Show me a compareable videos without 2 DC´s then, there is none. Too lazy to do the math for you.
I already know the numbers. I already run those groups sometimes. I know how it works. I am just saying that it isn't necessary, and there are a variety of compositions that accomplish roughly the same thing.
You stated that you have no interest in meta runs, same as I don´t run those setups actually, it´s boring. But that does not change the fact that a big bunch of player do stick with it all day long.
I'm not saying that I have no interest in running "meta" parties. I run them too sometimes.
Ask those "100% DO DC player" in forum, they obviously don´t have a AC spec and run 24/7 with another AC/DC.
These changes are unfortunate for them. More so, an AC DC is one of the most expensive builds to create. That is very unfortunate for players that wanted to play DO.
And in case you did not recognize that 4x buffer runs are pretty common or normality, no matter if tong or CR then amybe you play on another planet, or 24/7 with the same guildies inside a bubble.
I definitely am not looking for ToNG or CR in P.E. LFGs, or those other areas of "who knows what you will get".
I won't deny that. A play 9/10 runs with all very strong players. I know that this experience creates a bias on my view. However, it isn't like anyone is being held back from playing with good players. Your social network is a whole area of development that this game offers.
Hoping the best for your CW mof, met plenty of them lately, but they were not invisible at all, he might reappear some day
I play SS and MoF in almost every single run that has campfires. My CW is not reduced to a "MoF only". He reappears each time I get the PM "can't inv you".
Just to be clear... Personally, I am actually excited for the CW changes. It looks cool. My DC is built mostly for AC. My TR is going to be superman in PvP now. I actually benefited directly from these changes. I am here saying that I wish we had more dungeons instead. Whether they are here to cheers to that, or not, I know that there are many players who agree with that.
Edit: I understand that some players were having trouble finding groups. I feel for you. If that is the case though, just try to learn how others are finding groups easily and figure out what is working better. Instead, some people came crying for class changes in replace of more content.
The classes were far away from balanced. All the changes that developers are doing circa MOD13 are absolutely amazing! I can only applaud them for all their work and effort done. For the final examples of improvements recently I'd buy them a beer! Neverwinter playerbase tends to be quite panicky and wants to grab on exploit bandwaggon a bit far too often. I recently found out that there were people who overused some exploit giving them more than 100K AD daily? And they got banned. Hahaha! I say - GOOD. Learn your lesson, get down to earth. You got away easy as most of the bans aren't permanent to my knowledge. Class changes are extremely nice addition and are wholeheartedly welcomed by everyone who understands class balance in general. There is still a lot to see and do afterwards, but important thing that everyone should acknowledge is that there is WILLINGNESS to change and take on that hard job. This had to be done and it was done in the least painful way! It is important that there is progress. Devs learn from past mistakes, players learn from past mistakes. But nobody gives up on offering constructive solutions. I can completely see that developers took great care with the approach, but the only concern to me it seems to be with the TR changes. As I do not main TR, I'm still hoping to see what builds people will come up with and compare with other things in runs. I just heard of the news, getting preview ready and we'll see. I do not see nerfs with the CW class, I see that there was flawed math and I see decisive effort to dispose of some POST MOD 6 wrongs. And all of the changes only prove just how redeeming the whole ideal actually is. CW finally got some upgrade to the overall damage. It took 9 MODS for that to happen. Can't you just be happy, for once? Say "thank you", for once? Give some positive encouragement? I remember outcries when Lightning enchantment was fixed in order not to multiproc. Ever since I've no heart to anyone who wants to utilize bugs and exploits in order to gain unfair advantage. And as a CW I can still see that Disintegrate as a spell is way too potent and needs longer CD.
Guys, please remember - DO NOT think of it as a permanent change as it is not a permanent change. This is so easy to figure out! These sorts of changes usually will leave some residue and it will get sorted out afterwards. Healers should heal! Anyone having problem with Clerics healing should rethink RPGs in general.
Hm, sry what changes do you talk about ?
1.GF is not gonna tank in mod 15 2. Double DC is still viable after TI was reverted to a 10% groupbuff + 25% dps personal buff, just compare buffs and debuffs from 2. degree supporter like GF/SW/CW/HUnter..TR?(mod15) all are worse than DO-DC (x1.485 buff x 27% debuff), if you want so meta watching at buffs+encounter reset on top, the gap is a bit closer tbh 3. OP stays OP, same as DC, the only class in demand for the tank and leader spot in 5 player groups. 4. TR may get downgraded in PVE and may get send into the group of 2. or 3. degree supporter, concerning dps, welcome , but upgraded in other trees and..omg 5. upgraded in PVP, as if there was a need for a more deadly Bloodbath/Opressive darkness combos, will be funny to watch even more dead bodies on the Knodes, mine includet if not Damnation can hold against that massaker 6. CW, no clue same as now? 7. and sry.. noone is gonna focus on heal in mod 15 i am 100% sure
This actually is the meta in every run, concerning codg 100%, chosen by all player, premade/random whatever.
That is maybe every single run that you did. That doesn't make it a necessity. Players call for that, I get it. That doesn't mean that there is some crazy imbalance.
you can do name me better combos, but in the end, it´s from no meaning if cradle baby is melt in 2 or 2.5 seconds per phase.
That was explained elsewhere. I am not going to spend the time finding it. In my experience, the baby phases ended in "2 or 2.5 seconds" even if we didn't have the exact safety net setup.
Not knowing the numbers simply makes me shake my head and indicates that you don´t know how those 10 sec kills are done? Show me a compareable videos without 2 DC´s then, there is none. Too lazy to do the math for you.
I already know the numbers. I already run those groups sometimes. I know how it works. I am just saying that it isn't necessary, and there are a variety of compositions that accomplish roughly the same thing.
You stated that you have no interest in meta runs, same as I don´t run those setups actually, it´s boring. But that does not change the fact that a big bunch of player do stick with it all day long.
I'm not saying that I have no interest in running "meta" parties. I run them too sometimes.
Ask those "100% DO DC player" in forum, they obviously don´t have a AC spec and run 24/7 with another AC/DC.
These changes are unfortunate for them. More so, an AC DC is one of the most expensive builds to create. That is very unfortunate for players that wanted to play DO.
And in case you did not recognize that 4x buffer runs are pretty common or normality, no matter if tong or CR then amybe you play on another planet, or 24/7 with the same guildies inside a bubble.
I definitely am not looking for ToNG or CR in P.E. LFGs, or those other areas of "who knows what you will get".
I won't deny that. A play 9/10 runs with all very strong players. I know that this experience creates a bias on my view. However, it isn't like anyone is being held back from playing with good players. Your social network is a whole area of development that this game offers.
Hoping the best for your CW mof, met plenty of them lately, but they were not invisible at all, he might reappear some day
I play SS and MoF in almost every single run that has campfires. My CW is not reduced to a "MoF only". He reappears each time I get the PM "can't inv you".
Just to be clear... Personally, I am actually excited for the CW changes. It looks cool. My DC is built mostly for AC. My TR is going to be superman in PvP now. I actually benefited directly from these changes. I am here saying that I wish we had more dungeons instead. Whether they are here to cheers to that, or not, I know that there are many players who agree with that.
Edit: I understand that some players were having trouble finding groups. I feel for you. If that is the case though, just try to learn how others are finding groups easily and figure out what is working better. Instead, some people came crying for class changes in replace of more content.
Honestly I did so many runs with all my classes SW>DC>GF and being invited is not the main problem. I retired somehow from running content a bit. There is no real benefit doing CR, CODG i did 1000 times, too much (fl/premade 99%) It´s more being bored about same meta , absence of courageous decisions on devs/companies side about a lot of stuff. Those "small step" improvements are too "small" for my taste and take far too long in soo many ways. In my eyes they should shut down some misleading threats or forum and ignore most of it, especially those that miss any flexability and creativity, only staring at their feet not able to see simple stuff in a bigger context. Pick some willing and constructive player and stick with them to improve the game, pay them or reward them somehow.
->concernig bugs: that ban-hammer after allowing player to cheat month after month , maybe out of boredomness, should have been avoided by fixing that stupid bug, known for > 4 month ? allready mentioned on preview
->concerning classes and balance, they fixed a lot in the past, but there still is a gap between leader/tank/striker positions, from what I think GF vs OP is the biggest disbalance
The game is balanced on a level to play it with all classes in it´s first and/or second role at least, but too buggy, to much beta feeling, missing content and still a lot to improve.
1.GF is not gonna tank in mod 15 2. Double DC is still viable after TI was reverted to a 10% groupbuff + 25% dps personal buff, just compare buffs and debuffs from 2. degree supporter like GF/SW/CW/HUnter..TR?(mod15) all are worse than DO-DC (x1.485 buff x 27% debuff), if you want so meta watching at buffs+encounter reset on top, the gap is a bit closer tbh 3. OP stays OP, same as DC, the only class in demand for the tank and leader spot in 5 player groups. 4. TR may get downgraded in PVE and may get send into the group of 2. or 3. degree supporter, concerning dps, welcome , but upgraded in other trees and..omg 5. upgraded in PVP, as if there was a need for a more deadly Bloodbath/Opressive darkness combos, will be funny to watch even more dead bodies on the Knodes, mine includet if not Damnation can hold against that massaker 6. CW, no clue same as now? 7. and sry.. noone is gonna focus on heal in mod 15 i am 100% sure
I'm not disagreeing with you, however I'm stressing out that the important thing is that the changes are starting to take a form and are shaping towards something you can point to and say "Hey, this is good". I welcome such changes.
How it will affect meta depends upon the content, as usual.
But this is part one of the process the way I see it. Fixing everything is done in three to four different steps which require a major overhaul of the game's mechanics and content itself.
Next big thing should most definitely be power sharing which needs to get sorted out. Also some in-depth checking of the prominence weapon enchantment as I've noticed that occasionally it deals insane amounts of damage.
1. FIX DPS 2. POWER SHARING 3. CONTENT ITSELF
Any sort of QQ shouldn't be oversimplified to spread disdain and vitriol towards Cryptic who are, from my point of view, really trying to fix broken aspects of the game as much as their resources allow them to. We could've easily be left without any changes for next year or so, but we got changes not just to one, but to many classes at once. Granted, it's just scratching the surface but there's a bit of hope that things will get sorted out eventually. That's all I'm saying.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
1.GF is not gonna tank in mod 15 2. Double DC is still viable after TI was reverted to a 10% groupbuff + 25% dps personal buff, just compare buffs and debuffs from 2. degree supporter like GF/SW/CW/HUnter..TR?(mod15) all are worse than DO-DC (x1.485 buff x 27% debuff), if you want so meta watching at buffs+encounter reset on top, the gap is a bit closer tbh 3. OP stays OP, same as DC, the only class in demand for the tank and leader spot in 5 player groups. 4. TR may get downgraded in PVE and may get send into the group of 2. or 3. degree supporter, concerning dps, welcome , but upgraded in other trees and..omg 5. upgraded in PVP, as if there was a need for a more deadly Bloodbath/Opressive darkness combos, will be funny to watch even more dead bodies on the Knodes, mine includet if not Damnation can hold against that massaker 6. CW, no clue same as now? 7. and sry.. noone is gonna focus on heal in mod 15 i am 100% sure
I'm not disagreeing with you, however I'm stressing out that the important thing is that the changes are starting to take a form and are shaping towards something you can point to and say "Hey, this is good". I welcome such changes.
How it will affect meta depends upon the content, as usual.
But this is part one of the process the way I see it. Fixing everything is done in three to four different steps which require a major overhaul of the game's mechanics and content itself.
Next big thing should most definitely be power sharing which needs to get sorted out. Also some in-depth checking of the prominence weapon enchantment as I've noticed that occasionally it deals insane amounts of damage.
1. FIX DPS 2. POWER SHARING 3. CONTENT ITSELF
Any sort of QQ shouldn't be oversimplified to spread disdain and vitriol towards Cryptic who are, from my point of view, really trying to fix broken aspects of the game as much as their resources allow them to. We could've easily be left without any changes for next year or so, but we got changes not just to one, but to many classes at once. Granted, it's just scratching the surface but there's a bit of hope that things will get sorted out eventually. That's all I'm saying.
Well spoken, sadly >80% in forum want it the other way and insist of being "over the top" and stay meta 4ever in every path with the obtrusiveness of a 3 year old child
Well spoken, sadly >80% in forum want it the other way and insist of being "over the top" and stay meta 4ever in every path with the obtrusiveness of a 3 year old child
I don't think that is necessarily fair. What most people want is to have their class playable, desirable in a group, and be able to contribute equally (via DPS or healing or buffs, etc.). A good example is what is going on on the TR thread, its a bloodbath over there compared to all the other class threads. People see their thousand hours of investment (along with some real cash) just being nerfed to death.
Well spoken, sadly >80% in forum want it the other way and insist of being "over the top" and stay meta 4ever in every path with the obtrusiveness of a 3 year old child
I don't think that is necessarily fair. What most people want is to have their class playable, desirable in a group, and be able to contribute equally (via DPS or healing or buffs, etc.). A good example is what is going on on the TR thread, its a bloodbath over there compared to all the other class threads. People see their thousand hours of investment (along with some real cash) just being nerfed to death.
Well, many things weren't fair in the past whenever a change occurs.
Just to name two - You've had
- PvP-only players changing PvE meta, too. Since MOD2 Control based attacks were gradually nerfed to the point of not being useful in any scenario. You still have equipment which increases control bonus, but in reality you do not need it as it is rather weak point to invest into. - Classes being gradually nerfed thanks to the overpowered gear (which was broken to begin with). There are instances where gear meant for melee classes are gladly used by ranged classes and vice-versa due to the attributes they give in certain case scenarios.
On the specific case I remember as being completely unfair was Lostmauth's bonus which would proc on top of a proc on top of a proc doing crit on top of a crit for control wizards who utilized Storm Spell as a feature. Storm Spell had at least 3 major nerfs in the process. If we'd put it to the perspective in comparison to, let' say GWF, it would be like making Sure Strike hit 2 times only on every 3 sec, and procing Lightning only once per critical hit only. Without speedup when there is Unstoppable. But that didn't happen, right?
I'm pointing out to the fact that this is a thing with Neverwinter Online and anything "not fair" is not really going to help. I think I see why TR changes were done the way they were done. It's like breaking a toy apart to see what it is made of, what its strong points are and from where to actually go from. Perhaps with patience and constructive feedback TRs can get something realistic out of the whole ordeal.
There is one point I always stress out when it comes down to TR - Boss killer DoT/Crit combo. Extremely important role in my opinion and an extremely potent one if done right. There were some broken things, like getting up to two and three times more Power with Dailies, but other than that the class should have benefits from Weapon Enchantments the most. TR powers tend to be finicky to balance out. But I hope that something good will come out of it.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Comments
I play one of the most powerfull classes in this game myself happily, no other class can do what my DC can.
The class is set in stone and allways wanted, now the dps spec is wanted less for buffs, since this game is all about buffs, wich is the simple result of far too powerfull buffs in a hole, the core problem for many conflicts and a fact many specs and classes suffer from since long.
DO-DC is back in the spot, where most other classes or path allready are and where it allready were, being optional and not essential.
Welcome DO-DC, you might ask for setups like 1 tank, 1 leader 3 dps and fight for a dps-role in the future, that´s what many player/classes asked for in the past.
The fact that one tree is from minor use or benefit in meta endgame for the sake of balance doesn´t hurt my DC that much tbh. My AC-DC can run every content all day long and am happy to pair with mof, hunter, templock on buffer side also, i prefer class diversity.
Respeccing for AC is not that expensive than spec for dps imo, I specced maybe 1000 times between damnation, fury , templock, same as rightous, faithfull and virtous in the past and tact, conqueror etc, nothing new to me.
There should have been a way to keep DO in advantage over AC at lower gear, but how should that work without being back again near double-meta, nerfing HG down to 20% instead of TI maybe, also a solution, same result I am sure , many upset player.
They could have nerfed AC-powershare, or they could have made TI a 10% buff, but they obviously decided to end that double setup, no perfect solution but a decision I can understand.
Anyway, every DO-DC that wants to run dps can do so with his friends.
That´s what most dps warlocks and dps-CW do and will do in mod 15 same as tact-GF who want to tank. NWO channels are elitist, lack in flexibility and filled with many bad player anyway.
The classes were already in pretty good shape @balanced#2849
Before the changes:
1.) Every single class was welcome (and completely viable) in end game content.
2.) Almost every single class had 2 or more viable builds to play, even for end game content.
After the changes:
1.) Some classes are without a doubt inferior, and have no alternative option to be viable for end game content.
2.) Most classes are going to have only one viable build/role to do end game content.
Conclusion:
I am sorry, but your team listened to the wrong players here. Players were complaining about something that they didn't understand and now we have a serious imbalance. It isn't necessarily your (the team's) fault, but maybe next time you will weigh the credibility you give to some of the sources of feedback.
What did we need this mod?
More dungeons.
Your most invested player-base has been begging you (the team) to release more dungeons each mod, less "grindy" campaigns, and avoid HAMSTER up the decently balanced classes [recently].
You (the team) might have done these changes to lower exclusivity. Go back and read those changes. They will clearly result in the opposite effect.
Nope!
4buffer+1 dps is not "balanced". Its actually very rare and unheard in mmos.
3dps+tank+heal is the balanced party.
TRs power change to direct dmg buffs prolly the first step before they nerf the powershare from DC/OP.
If not, they should...
DO DC nerf wasn't an elegant thing but now you can bring templock and buff-HRs instead.
we were already seeing a lot of games with temps and hrs. I've played with all kinds of groups this mod. it's been far more inclusive than the mod before it. the four support meta is actually really flexible in build success.
There are player who simply run outside meta and did not care about it like I do in general.
And there are player that got no interest in balance, repeat false stuff all day long and maybe run meta 24/7
OP >>>> GF - tank
DC >>> devo - leader
TR/GWF >>> CW/SW - dps
DC >>> all others (OP excludet)-support
only to name some of them
Even repeating it 100 times a day won´t change the obvious, sounds more like brainwashing forummember
mod 15:
GF is dps or support/tank same as mod 14
OP is tank/leader same as mod 14
DC is leader same as mod 14 (only one paragon dropped of and double meta is gone, a good decision in general)
GWF is GWF
TR has to show what is possible, after being top dps in mod 14, 99% say it´s dead from short test, we will see
Hunter is same as mod 14 dps or buff
CW is support (or dps) same as mod 14 (not sure how good dps looks like after reading though 100 complaints right from the start, we will see)
SW is support (or dps) same as mod 14
Most classes can run as dps in endcontent (GWF/TR/Hunter/GF), some are not first choice vs top dps outside premades (CW/SW), damantion lock is an unknown variable i mod 15 though.
So near nothing changes except maybe for TR (would need some more tests I guess) and DO-DC concerning double DC setup.
DO-DC: 1.35 x (1.2 canceled in mod 15) x 1.15 (canceled in mod 15) + 12.5% debuff (+10% in mod 15)
AC-DC: 1.2 x 1.12 x powerbuff ~100k at 56k basepower x debuff 10%+15%+17,5%
In mod 14 no other buffer than DO/DC added to that AC/DC is able to buff with a multiplier x 1.863 + debuff 12,5%, debuffs get deminished at higher numbers and drop of significant.
In mod 15 DO DC will not have access to endgame meta, due to nerfs
Note: I think it is quite silly to try to illustrate class strength this way (because in Mod 14 there was so much variety to viable compositions), but I am just responding in a parallel fashion to show a point.
Pure Tank = OP > GF
Tank/HDPS Hybrid = GF > OP
Pure HDPS = GF/TR/GWF > HR > CW/SW
HDPS/Buff/Debuff Mix = CW/SW/HR > DC >
Full Buff = DC > SW/HR
Full Debuff = CW > everybody else...
Power Share = DC > OP > SW
Healing = OP/SW (insignificant difference due to immortality) > DC
Now you can argue with me all you want, but I promise you, that is wayyy more accurate. Also, that is a silly way to try to compare the classes. This is because there was SOOO much variety and different current setups call on the newly invited toons for different loadouts/builds/focuses to shape out a beautiful composition, and run. Also, every single "DPS" class made Orcus, in ToNG, look like a redcap from Sharandar (even before mod 14).
Lets recap...
Which classes were best at something (or at least close enough to tie at position number 1)?
OP
GF
TR
GWF
CW
SW
HR
DC
Ohhhh jesus, that is everyone.
Which classes were best at two things (or at least close enough to tie at position number 1)?
OP
GF
CW
SW
DC
As you can see, most of the classes were even in this position. GWF/TR/HR are not, because they were unfortunately bound to being almost full HDPS.
18K Full Buff/Debuff GWF LFG CR!
Sorry XD. lol
Just to clearify, I'm NOT saying that Mod 15 is junk.
I am also NOT saying that the developers are idiots and are ruining the game.
However, I am saying that all classes were excellent at something (sometimes even multiple things) in Mod 14. All classes were welcome in groups and you didn't need some 4 support man party to clear a CR in a decent time. If you did, somebody [or some people] was doing something wrong.
The exclusivity of Mod 14 was due to players, not class balance. Forget about that, it isn't even worth trying to argue against. Just take a trip to various YouTube channels and you can find plenty of examples of that.
Bottom line (TL;DR)...
In Mod 15, having 4-6 new dungeons would have been way more beneficial than a bunch of major class balancing re-works.
"Needing meta" is a sorry excuse if plenty of players are doing fine without it. Also, Mod 15 will now [only] bring some new meta (any changes will), so there will simply be new forms of that same excuse for more balancing.
You said it yourself
If you just break it down to the point wich class was the most dispesable it will enlighten it.
5 spots in a group.
DC>OP>>2.DC>temp/buff-hunter/mof/GF > TR>GWF>Hunter
10 spots in a group COPD
DC>OP>2.DC>>3.DC>2. OP>temp>mof>buffhunter>GF>TR>GWF codg shows you pretty good what happens in 99% of all codg runs I did.
1.+2. 2xOP------------------------set in stone
3.-5. 3xDC------------------------set in stone
6.---Templock-------------------- optional but near 100%
7.---GF tact-----------------------optional, but near 100%
8.---CW-mof----------------------optional, but near 80%, if not Buffhunter present 20%
9. dps any class but normally TR or GWF or Hunter or GF, except OP/DC
10.dps any class but normally TR or GWF or Hunter or GF, except OP/DC
You see there is a problem in NWO. Dps classes are from minor interest compared to buffer.
Two classes outshine all others by far (OP/DC)
Same as 4 dps classes outshine the 2 that are left, otherwise they would not be that present right?
Now it´s your turn to tell me how this could be corrected.
-> they allready started doing so 2 years ago but are pretty slow and sloppy with their work.
That is a perfect example. I have done plenty of runs (in 5 man parties) with other compositions. It doesn't make a huge difference. You don't need x2 DC, and you don't need an OP in every run. That is absurd to try to argue. You are just making examples based of what people call for in the P.E. (or those big public channels). Many players think you need some "ideal" setup for the content, you don't. There will always be some "ideal" setup.
Just because people call for some specific compositions (like they have almost every single mod), does not mean that you "need" that to complete something in a good time. That just means that players think they do.
This is another perfect example. In fact, having x3 DC is a joke. That is hilarious that people actually felt they needed that. Those things are not "set in stone". If you are a group of decent players, you can easily run CoDG with only one DC or one OP. I ran a 5 man CoDG without a DC. It took less than 20 minutes.
Why is it that other players don't need to run x3 DCs, or x2 OP, and you do?
You are describing LFG chats, not class balance. Try some other setups and you might be surprised at the similarity...
If support really has such a huge advantage over DPS classes, then why does my CW have to stay invisible 99% of the time?
Anyway your dps group is allways like 2 dps, GF, templock+DO due to the fact that, pop is group a intern multiplier same as TI is.
Double 3xbane + double exalt (1xempow) on 2 main dps simply make dps N°3 and 4 obsolte, their dps is down to 40% of the dps the player in group 1 deals.
there are other options running SW-GF-DO-dps-dps and AC-devoOP-DO-dpsGF-dps but no matter how you put it it´s allways a max buffer setup.
And yes you can run tong with 5 TR´s, but who cares what you do in your freetime
About 2xDC -> it is actually meta, combined with devo OP +GF +xy, no need to argue on your side.
Not knowing the numbers simply makes me shake my head and indicates that you don´t know how those 10 sec kills are done? Show me a compareable videos without 2 DC´s then, there is none. Too lazy to do the math for you.
This is gonna end in mod 15 since simultan eFF+eExalt (glitch) ends, combined with eBtS, HG dDG plus a ton of powerbuffs on top.
You stated that you have no interest in meta runs, same as I don´t run those setups actually, it´s boring.
But that does not change the fact that a big bunch of player do stick with it all day long.
Ask those "100% DO DC player" in forum, they obviously don´t have a AC spec and run 24/7 with another AC/DC.
And in case you did not recognize that 4x buffer runs are pretty common or normality, no matter if tong or CR then amybe you play on another planet, or 24/7 with the same guildies inside a bubble.
Hoping the best for your CW mof, met plenty of them lately, but they were not invisible at all, he might reappear some day
All the changes that developers are doing circa MOD13 are absolutely amazing! I can only applaud them for all their work and effort done. For the final examples of improvements recently I'd buy them a beer!
Neverwinter playerbase tends to be quite panicky and wants to grab on exploit bandwaggon a bit far too often.
I recently found out that there were people who overused some exploit giving them more than 100K AD daily? And they got banned. Hahaha! I say - GOOD. Learn your lesson, get down to earth. You got away easy as most of the bans aren't permanent to my knowledge.
Class changes are extremely nice addition and are wholeheartedly welcomed by everyone who understands class balance in general. There is still a lot to see and do afterwards, but important thing that everyone should acknowledge is that there is WILLINGNESS to change and take on that hard job.
This had to be done and it was done in the least painful way! It is important that there is progress. Devs learn from past mistakes, players learn from past mistakes. But nobody gives up on offering constructive solutions.
I can completely see that developers took great care with the approach, but the only concern to me it seems to be with the TR changes. As I do not main TR, I'm still hoping to see what builds people will come up with and compare with other things in runs. I just heard of the news, getting preview ready and we'll see.
I do not see nerfs with the CW class, I see that there was flawed math and I see decisive effort to dispose of some POST MOD 6 wrongs. And all of the changes only prove just how redeeming the whole ideal actually is. CW finally got some upgrade to the overall damage. It took 9 MODS for that to happen. Can't you just be happy, for once? Say "thank you", for once? Give some positive encouragement?
I remember outcries when Lightning enchantment was fixed in order not to multiproc. Ever since I've no heart to anyone who wants to utilize bugs and exploits in order to gain unfair advantage. And as a CW I can still see that Disintegrate as a spell is way too potent and needs longer CD.
Guys, please remember - DO NOT think of it as a permanent change as it is not a permanent change. This is so easy to figure out! These sorts of changes usually will leave some residue and it will get sorted out afterwards.
Healers should heal! Anyone having problem with Clerics healing should rethink RPGs in general.
That was explained elsewhere. I am not going to spend the time finding it. In my experience, the baby phases ended in "2 or 2.5 seconds" even if we didn't have the exact safety net setup.
I never ran ToNG with 5 TRs. You have me mixed up with someone else.
I already know the numbers. I already run those groups sometimes. I know how it works. I am just saying that it isn't necessary, and there are a variety of compositions that accomplish roughly the same thing.
I'm not saying that I have no interest in running "meta" parties. I run them too sometimes.
These changes are unfortunate for them. More so, an AC DC is one of the most expensive builds to create. That is very unfortunate for players that wanted to play DO.
I definitely am not looking for ToNG or CR in P.E. LFGs, or those other areas of "who knows what you will get".
I won't deny that. A play 9/10 runs with all very strong players. I know that this experience creates a bias on my view. However, it isn't like anyone is being held back from playing with good players. Your social network is a whole area of development that this game offers. I play SS and MoF in almost every single run that has campfires. My CW is not reduced to a "MoF only". He reappears each time I get the PM "can't inv you".
Just to be clear...
Personally, I am actually excited for the CW changes. It looks cool. My DC is built mostly for AC. My TR is going to be superman in PvP now. I actually benefited directly from these changes. I am here saying that I wish we had more dungeons instead. Whether they are here to cheers to that, or not, I know that there are many players who agree with that.
Edit: I understand that some players were having trouble finding groups. I feel for you. If that is the case though, just try to learn how others are finding groups easily and figure out what is working better. Instead, some people came crying for class changes in replace of more content.
1.GF is not gonna tank in mod 15
2. Double DC is still viable after TI was reverted to a 10% groupbuff + 25% dps personal buff, just compare buffs and debuffs from 2. degree supporter like GF/SW/CW/HUnter..TR?(mod15) all are worse than DO-DC (x1.485 buff x 27% debuff), if you want so meta watching at buffs+encounter reset on top, the gap is a bit closer tbh
3. OP stays OP, same as DC, the only class in demand for the tank and leader spot in 5 player groups.
4. TR may get downgraded in PVE and may get send into the group of 2. or 3. degree supporter, concerning dps, welcome
5. upgraded in PVP, as if there was a need for a more deadly Bloodbath/Opressive darkness combos, will be funny to watch even more dead bodies on the Knodes, mine includet if not Damnation can hold against that massaker
6. CW, no clue same as now?
7. and sry.. noone is gonna focus on heal in mod 15 i am 100% sure Honestly I did so many runs with all my classes SW>DC>GF and being invited is not the main problem. I retired somehow from running content a bit. There is no real benefit doing CR, CODG i did 1000 times, too much (fl/premade 99%)
It´s more being bored about same meta , absence of courageous decisions on devs/companies side about a lot of stuff.
Those "small step" improvements are too "small" for my taste and take far too long in soo many ways.
In my eyes they should shut down some misleading threats or forum and ignore most of it, especially those that miss any flexability and creativity, only staring at their feet not able to see simple stuff in a bigger context.
Pick some willing and constructive player and stick with them to improve the game, pay them or reward them somehow.
->concernig bugs: that ban-hammer after allowing player to cheat month after month , maybe out of boredomness, should have been avoided by fixing that stupid bug, known for > 4 month ? allready mentioned on preview
->concerning classes and balance, they fixed a lot in the past, but there still is a gap between leader/tank/striker positions, from what I think GF vs OP is the biggest disbalance
The game is balanced on a level to play it with all classes in it´s first and/or second role at least, but too buggy, to much beta feeling, missing content and still a lot to improve.
How it will affect meta depends upon the content, as usual.
But this is part one of the process the way I see it. Fixing everything is done in three to four different steps which require a major overhaul of the game's mechanics and content itself.
Next big thing should most definitely be power sharing which needs to get sorted out. Also some in-depth checking of the prominence weapon enchantment as I've noticed that occasionally it deals insane amounts of damage.
1. FIX DPS
2. POWER SHARING
3. CONTENT ITSELF
Any sort of QQ shouldn't be oversimplified to spread disdain and vitriol towards Cryptic who are, from my point of view, really trying to fix broken aspects of the game as much as their resources allow them to. We could've easily be left without any changes for next year or so, but we got changes not just to one, but to many classes at once. Granted, it's just scratching the surface but there's a bit of hope that things will get sorted out eventually. That's all I'm saying.
Just to name two - You've had
- PvP-only players changing PvE meta, too. Since MOD2 Control based attacks were gradually nerfed to the point of not being useful in any scenario. You still have equipment which increases control bonus, but in reality you do not need it as it is rather weak point to invest into.
- Classes being gradually nerfed thanks to the overpowered gear (which was broken to begin with). There are instances where gear meant for melee classes are gladly used by ranged classes and vice-versa due to the attributes they give in certain case scenarios.
On the specific case I remember as being completely unfair was Lostmauth's bonus which would proc on top of a proc on top of a proc doing crit on top of a crit for control wizards who utilized Storm Spell as a feature. Storm Spell had at least 3 major nerfs in the process.
If we'd put it to the perspective in comparison to, let' say GWF, it would be like making Sure Strike hit 2 times only on every 3 sec, and procing Lightning only once per critical hit only. Without speedup when there is Unstoppable. But that didn't happen, right?
I'm pointing out to the fact that this is a thing with Neverwinter Online and anything "not fair" is not really going to help.
I think I see why TR changes were done the way they were done. It's like breaking a toy apart to see what it is made of, what its strong points are and from where to actually go from. Perhaps with patience and constructive feedback TRs can get something realistic out of the whole ordeal.
There is one point I always stress out when it comes down to TR - Boss killer DoT/Crit combo. Extremely important role in my opinion and an extremely potent one if done right. There were some broken things, like getting up to two and three times more Power with Dailies, but other than that the class should have benefits from Weapon Enchantments the most. TR powers tend to be finicky to balance out. But I hope that something good will come out of it.