Buff HR?

nihlocke

Today I was (struggling) in TONG with my friends. We were an ACDC, a CW, a TR, a GF tact and a HR.
Since Ras Ni kept wiping the floor with us, our pug GF asked everyone but the TR to switch to a buff build. I know we should've done it from the beginning, but whatever. "ACDC put exalt on TR, mage switch to buff, and HR switch to buff"

What is this HR buff spec that I keep hearing about? What buffs or debuffs can a HR bring to the party?
Or rather, what is a HR buff exactly and what does it do to buff?

jonkoca

As far as I know, HR buff build is a decent recovery PF trapper with foxes for free party dodge, longstriders for party damage, hunters teamwork for debuff, and something else, probably hawkeye for buff. Basically you sit at mid-range and spam everything while trying not to die.

wdj40

nihlocke#5890 said:

Today I was (struggling) in TONG with my friends. We were an ACDC, a CW, a TR, a GF tact and a HR.
Since Ras Ni kept wiping the floor with us, our pug GF asked everyone but the TR to switch to a buff build. I know we should've done it from the beginning, but whatever. "ACDC put exalt on TR, mage switch to buff, and HR switch to buff"

What is this HR buff spec that I keep hearing about? What buffs or debuffs can a HR bring to the party?
Or rather, what is a HR buff exactly and what does it do to buff?

Buff build will be a Trapper with a focus on maximising Longstrider Shot... the trick is to have as much uptime as possible on it, which means pretty much rotating as fast as you can, whilst using every power in your slot tray to achieve this, as well as being high DPS at the same time.

Other buffs include Fox's Cunning for a free dodge for everyone every time it is used. Oak Skin gives small healing in combat and 12% DR (heals can be buffed pretty good with Boons Triggering). With those 2 powers built right I can carry any 4 players up to Master Spellplague.

Then Dread Enchant (because Trapper), Summoned Tiger, Character Class (like Drow), Crits, possibely Commanding Shot and some other sources I am forgetting... these all lower the DR or Defence of enemies.

Other random sources... Careful Attack + Hunters Teamwork have debuffs that stack with each other. Disruptive Shot every 6 seconds for perma Shepherds Devotion. You could also use Boar Hide for 5 stacks of 2% damage mitigation... Hawk Shot for bonus damage for the group... Stag Heart for Temp HP...

There are probably a lot more things that I am forgetting

wizardlvl80

Hello!

I would say - it depends on the dungeon and situation you are in. As @wdj40 already pointed - trapper is a good example. Especially during mob phases you should build your rotation around Longstriders, to try to keep it up all the time. You can swap Constricting Arrow for Biding Arrow to have that extra heal and DR for your party. Nontheless, providing LSS buff is your main priority. Fox's Shift is also an option you can consider if you feel like your team really needs that extra dodge.

As for the bossfights - here we have some more things we can offer. If you have a party that will boost your cooldowns - I would suggest to run as PF Combat, cause we can buff/debuff and contribute a really good amount of dps for the party, especially at content like Craddle. Use Thorn Ward which (if I remember correctly) can debuff up to 20% at max stacks, LSS is a must, since in this run we can keep it up pretty much all the time cause reduced cooldowns aren't a problem there, because many DC's and OP's around. Don't forget to drop that Gushing Wound, cause it will do some serious damage in a 10 man content.

Don't hesitate to use Slasher's Mark since it's our best team-wise daily we have.

If you want, you can also combine with Commanding Shot (like in tong Orcus fight) since it's a nice debuff. Stag Heart is a meh power, cause it gives temp HP based on your max HP, but it can always proc some features for you or other teammates (hurtmocker ring, gf conqueror etc.).

Debuff companion should be easy, since we are all running a tiger zoo recently.

As for mindset, if you ever played any moba game (like Dota for example), there are positions and offlane player is a "number three position". Which means you are not the biggest gun in your team. Your job is to focus on providing more damage, space and utility for your teammates, while also doing as much harm as possible. It's a really great way to play, and a very dynamic one where you can truly shine. Of course if you're not obsessed with being that number one in paingiver chart

athena

The one i use that all yall forgot to mention is the Aspect of the pack class feature. It gives combat advantage to all allies within range (medium large radius). And if your toon is capped at 1200 CA with all the CA bonus boons then you can make around 10% or more extra flat damage. My combat HR runs Pack, LSS, and thorn ward all the time, so yes HR can buff quite well.

wdj40

Ha ha I have been playing so long I completely forgot about Slashers Mark = Unlimited Stamina and Aspect of the Pack for perma CA.

Nuts

cerberusforces

This game or gamers was strange. Maybe next mod will change class, only buff and GWF -.-

wizardlvl80

cerberusforces said:

This game or gamers was strange. Maybe next mod will change class, only buff and GWF -.-

Both GWF and TR are amazing dps classes for the newest dungeons. They shine during single target fights and can drop bosses really fast. And let's face it - new dungeons are mainly focused on fights with bosses with big HP bar. We as HRs are crippled with CA bug, but not in a bad spot.

thefiresidecat

I haven't tried it but somehow I think it would be bad to do slashers in codg lol

wizardlvl80

thefiresidecat said:

I haven't tried it but somehow I think it would be bad to do slashers in codg lol

Actually not. Slasher's bring you back to platform, so it's safe to use it. I even use it as a "backup plan" when sometimes lag is heavy and pushes me off. It can save your life

nihlocke

Thanks for the feedback. I had no idea HRs had so much to bring on the table besides their dps.

Of course, it would be a waste to use a HR purely for buffing, wouldn't it?

How about something like this: an Hybrid dps/buff, Pathfinder Trapper

Encounters:
Longstrider's Shot for obvious dmg % buff
Thorn Ward/Commanding Shot (for debuff, depending on a balance of dmg dealt/debuff)
Hawkeye for 7% more encounter dmg

Personals:
Aspect of the Pack for 100% CA uptime for everyone and dmg buff

Plus whatever a Trapper Pathfinder HR would normally use as dailies and at wills when dpsing.

I really don't know anything about HRs, but as far as dungeon runs go, I think the most important things right now are dmg % buffs and enemy defense debuffs. If the team is really struggling with staying alive we can add some of the other skills you mentioned.

Or is there something else that would pump up the party dmg even more while not sacrificing too much of the hunter's dps?

rjc9000

nihlocke#5890 said:

Today I was (struggling) in TONG with my friends. We were an ACDC, a CW, a TR, a GF tact and a HR.
Since Ras Ni kept wiping the floor with us, our pug GF asked everyone but the TR to switch to a buff build. I know we should've done it from the beginning, but whatever. "ACDC put exalt on TR, mage switch to buff, and HR switch to buff"

Tell your GF to stop trying to facetank everything. If your GF continued to follow the GWF school of tanking, then I do hope your TR was using Courage Breaker.

Also tell everyone on your team to stop standing in the red areas and to back the hell away from rasin when he winds up his pp.

nihlocke#5890 said:

What is this HR buff spec that I keep hearing about?
Or rather, what is a HR buff exactly and what does it do to buff?

wizardlvl80

@nihlocke#5890

I'm not sure about going "full buff powers rotation" since our buffs are buffsdebuffs besides LSS are not significant so you are sacrificing lots of damage potential just for some minor buffs.

My main advice would be - play around LSS and if you're playing trapper, focus on providing this buff all the time. If you're combat - make a PF combat loadout with Thorn Ward, CoA and LSS. This itself will do the job. With lower cooldowns you should also be able to keep up LSS buff pretty much all the time while also doing serious damage, much more than you will buff with CS or Hawkeye.

nihlocke

Ok, our trapper HR is experimenting with LSS while dpsing at the moment. We still haven't attempted any hard dungeon yet, so I can't provide any feedback on how it works.
Still, dpsing while providing a 40% damage buff sounds effective. I'll let you know as soon as we see how it works out.

Meanwhile, thanks for the feedback

schietindebux

First off tanking Ras Ni as GF is not that easy in case the group is weak and doesn´t know what to do.
That debuffs shreds your defense and that DOT kills you in short if not that DC runs cleanse and spends some heals or you got other methods to free yourself from that DOT.
A better setup would have been a templock with silly ammounts of heals on top of that DC "cleansing".
I struggeld with a similar setup and it was a real pain in REQwith my tact GF... First I turned off that KV since all just stood in the "red sauce" all day, some tries later we voted to abandon, since there was no chance to finish it with the wrong setup/player.

That´s the debuff list mod 11, some things are not actual but I guess hunters debuffs are the same ?
Following this Longstrider+35% debuff makes that hunter a pretty awesome buffer, similar as mof/templock/tact GF

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8Y_AmqnnhOdaCT2Sg9e-OcC0m6q5nUJLfujZVsI1Z0/edit#gid=0

wdj40

schietindebux said:

First off tanking Ras Ni as GF is not that easy in case the group is weak and doesn´t know what to do.
That debuffs shreds your defense and that DOT kills you in short if not that DC runs cleanse and spends some heals or you got other methods to free yourself from that DOT.
A better setup would have been a templock with silly ammounts of heals on top of that DC "cleansing".
I struggeld with a similar setup and it was a real pain in REQwith my tact GF... First I turned off that KV since all just stood in the "red sauce" all day, some tries later we voted to abandon, since there was no chance to finish it with the wrong setup/player.

That´s the debuff list mod 11, some things are not actual but I guess hunters debuffs are the same ?
Following this Longstrider+35% debuff makes that hunter a pretty awesome buffer, similar as mof/templock/tact GF

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N8Y_AmqnnhOdaCT2Sg9e-OcC0m6q5nUJLfujZVsI1Z0/edit#gid=0

Longstriders is actually a 40% damage buff, not 35%

Just to add it also buffs everyone in a huge area not just your group... Its always in my Power Tray its just too good to give up. Plus Gushing Wound isnt too shabby lol.

rjc9000

wdj40 said:

Longstriders is actually a 40% damage buff, not 35%

Just to add it also buffs everyone in a huge area not just your group... Its always in my Power Tray its just too good to give up. Plus Gushing Wound isnt too shabby lol.

The 35% debuff comes from Thorn Ward (20% when the cactus is applies full debuff) and Commanding Shot (15%).

While not an unworkable option, using only LSS, Thorn Ward, and Commanding Shot is a waste of the HR's potential.

leonidrex

longstrider, thorn ward for buff/debuff + something to proc the feats you have couple choices
trapper ofc

wdj40

I dont use Thorn Ward for my Trapper... I find it works better for the other paths that dont rely on rotating powers to cool down.

For me my Trapper is LSS>Constricting>Disruptive Shot>CoA>Hunters Teamwork, depending on how far away the enemy is I might put LSS at the end of the Ranged rotation instead. Then switch to melee and its either Gushing Wound or Plant Growth 1st depending on how long I have left on LSS or how many enemies there are around me etc, or if I am far away then Slashers Mark 1st

wizardlvl80

rjc9000 said:

wdj40 said:

Longstriders is actually a 40% damage buff, not 35%

Just to add it also buffs everyone in a huge area not just your group... Its always in my Power Tray its just too good to give up. Plus Gushing Wound isnt too shabby lol.

The 35% debuff comes from Thorn Ward (20% when the cactus is applies full debuff) and Commanding Shot (15%).

While not an unworkable option, using only LSS, Thorn Ward, and Commanding Shot is a waste of the HR's potential.

Totally agree. Especially, since both TW and CS are singe target-ish debuffs. While CS will always be single target, TW will reach its max potential only if you don't have ads flying around your boss. TW is basically useless as a debuff tool for AoE fights.

Nontheless LSS is powerful and I don't see a reason to not slot it in a group content.

maximus

sad to see the relegation of trapper to a support class. all hail fey combat cheap dmg right?

Just run a full on dps trapper and ull be fine. let the gf, mof, dc,sw support.dont steal their work. compared to other classes, hr buff/debuff is a fn joke.

i do confess that, everytime i run dungs i run it as main dps and im a trapper so i dont focus on supporting. but i usually run disruptive and seismic, then AOTS and PACK, hindring,constrict and cordon, hunters teamwork and rapid shot for stacks of serpent. bosses i swap, seismic for mark, hindering for LS and wheel for soul sight.

i wonder where the archery pve hrs are...

rjc9000

maximus#5077 said:

i wonder where the archery pve hrs are...

in the garbage can

where the rest of the Archer tree belongs