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Mastercrafting is flawed due to rareity and time frames.

wylonuswylonus Posts: 2,360Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
this concept is really bad, because i dont know when is next SPECIFIC timed slot with "gemmed" items, this is totally "Sleep Deprivation" by watching and waiting for next changes rotations. when i sleep, and it was up and available, that isnt very nice.

just in my opinion, it is terrible way and all unknown specific shedule when that recipe shows up. i believe this need to be change, No ONE likes random timer rotation or other time sinker that may cause some players to give up in disgusted and frustrated.

Devs, this is suppose to be a game was meant to be enjoy but not waiting for 3-4 weeks to be able to catch that elusive recipe needed. i am tired and exhausted by waiting, no wonder why ESO has better success with master crafting writs and all it takes to find or trade with other players if they have extra recipe copies but it can be expensive, but no need to wait weeks after weeks to get it done.

i would love to see 'advanced noticed" crafting shedule timeframe and to know how soon when i can make one.

PLEASE let stop this sleep deprivation and burnouts. every players loves to see improvements and to have fun and move on to next goal.

as of now, recently, i barely stay awake for 2-3 hrs and sleep on keyboard, sometime i had to let go and sleep on lounger.
but right now, some friend said they could make few, but that would be several days or longer when it shows up. So i can get my sleep pattern back on track.
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Comments

  • lonewolf#0719 lonewolf Posts: 3Member Arc User
    No these are rare task, putting them on a schedule removes this - master crafting should not be simple to complete and doing this de-values the process for everyone else who has achieved this.

    Have you looked at the AH?
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Posts: 1,416Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    Eh? Those items don't come from mastercrafting. You just need to make a couple items one time to unlock mastercrafting... Masterwork professions are not random.
    FrozenFire
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,528Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Mastercrafting may arguably have many flaws but this is not one of them.
  • wylonuswylonus Posts: 2,360Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    frozen, i am looking for "Gemmed" items, and Lonewolf, these cost more than 100k ADs. i dont agree with that prices. tired of doing to check each hour reset. i dont care for odds to get at 20% but dont like to fail and wait 3-4 weeks if i catch one on hourly cycles.
    paying over 100k sound like captive market to me and for 2-3 days if i make 100k a cap.
  • horgadoon#1714 horgadoon Posts: 7Member Arc User

    Eh? Those items don't come from mastercrafting. You just need to make a couple items one time to unlock mastercrafting... Masterwork professions are not random.

    Have to disagree with you on this one. It can take a long time before the random task appears to make an Gemmed Elemental Shirt, for example. The list of random tasks only changes once an hour. There are many levels of equipment that appear in the random list so even if a shirt appears it might only be a Chainmail Shirt +1. Also there are usually two types of Shirts available so even if it is a Gemmed Shirt it might not be the right Gemmed Shirt. On top of that, we have 3 or 4 different types of equipment that can appear: helms, pants, bracers, etc. Chances are pretty low that we will randomly get the right type of equipment at the right level for us to even attempt the 60% success rate task.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,528Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Eh? Those items don't come from mastercrafting. You just need to make a couple items one time to unlock mastercrafting... Masterwork professions are not random.

    Have to disagree with you on this one. It can take a long time before the random task appears to make an Gemmed Elemental Shirt, for example. The list of random tasks only changes once an hour. There are many levels of equipment that appear in the random list so even if a shirt appears it might only be a Chainmail Shirt +1. Also there are usually two types of Shirts available so even if it is a Gemmed Shirt it might not be the right Gemmed Shirt. On top of that, we have 3 or 4 different types of equipment that can appear: helms, pants, bracers, etc. Chances are pretty low that we will randomly get the right type of equipment at the right level for us to even attempt the 60% success rate task.
    I don't know which part you disagreed with him.

    "Those items don't come from mastercrafting." It is correct.

    "You just need to make a couple items one time to unlock mastercrafting". It is correct.

    "Masterwork professions are not random." That is not exactly correct if it is read literally but I believe he means the appearance of the Masterwork profession tasks are not random. If it is interpreted that way, it is also correct.
  • zephyriahzephyriah Posts: 2,946Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Eh? Those items don't come from mastercrafting. You just need to make a couple items one time to unlock mastercrafting... Masterwork professions are not random.

    Have to disagree with you on this one. It can take a long time before the random task appears to make an Gemmed Elemental Shirt, for example. The list of random tasks only changes once an hour. There are many levels of equipment that appear in the random list so even if a shirt appears it might only be a Chainmail Shirt +1. Also there are usually two types of Shirts available so even if it is a Gemmed Shirt it might not be the right Gemmed Shirt. On top of that, we have 3 or 4 different types of equipment that can appear: helms, pants, bracers, etc. Chances are pretty low that we will randomly get the right type of equipment at the right level for us to even attempt the 60% success rate task.
    True they take a long time to appear, but those are not mastercrafting tasks. Those are regular rare crafting tasks. Once you are able to make masterworks items, there are no rare masterworks tasks. So, is a temporary gate only.

    The difficulty of timing these rare tasks and the demand from unlocking masterworks is what causes the high price. With these items and other like them, it is easy to make good money from crafting without ever unlocking mastercrafts. I always suggest to guildies that if and when they get the task for these items to rum them X3 and sell the excess to help pay for mastercrafting. At 60%, one can often get 2 successes. And here is the important part, keep doing it even after you have your turn-ins.

    The real difficulty of progressing Masterworks comes later when your success chance drops to 20% for expensive to craft items for those not in an alliance with all 5 temp masterworks stores. For those in an alliance/guild with other mastercrafters willing to help, it gets easier.
  • bobby4700bobby4700 Posts: 164Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited August 2018
    wait till u do alchemy masterwork 3 ive done the ledger 22 times and not got it yet. what gets me is when u do get master work tool and use a mythic gond that gives u a 75 % chance u fail about 50% of the time but when u trying with a 0%and gond which is 35% chance u never get it. How is there 65 % fail better than your 75 %to get it ?
  • kvetkvet Posts: 2,700Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Gemmed Elemental Shirt is not a Masterwork item. The only randomness involved is whether you succeed at a given task, which is not at all guaranteed, but the task itself is not a rare task and is therefore unlike the Gemmed Element Shirt task, which is a rare task - which, like MW, you can fail even when you do happen to be able to start it.

    Anyway, I see you're point here, but you're QQing at the wrong mechanic... I think it's this that's flawed :)
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,932Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Masterwork crafting has quite a few problems, but seriously ... having to watch out for a few recipes and make them when they appear? That's not really a big issue.

    If it is a problem, just buy the items on the AH - there are quite a few people that make a nice income by crafting those items regularly and putting them up for sale ... sure, the prices are inflated, but compared to the total cost of getting masterwork to maximum rank that cost is pretty insignificant.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • flippy#8481 flippy Posts: 198Member Arc User
    wylonus said:

    this concept is really bad, because i dont know when is next SPECIFIC timed slot with "gemmed" items, this is totally "Sleep Deprivation" by watching and waiting for next changes rotations. when i sleep, and it was up and available, that isnt very nice.

    just in my opinion, it is terrible way and all unknown specific shedule when that recipe shows up. i believe this need to be change, No ONE likes random timer rotation or other time sinker that may cause some players to give up in disgusted and frustrated.

    Devs, this is suppose to be a game was meant to be enjoy but not waiting for 3-4 weeks to be able to catch that elusive recipe needed. i am tired and exhausted by waiting, no wonder why ESO has better success with master crafting writs and all it takes to find or trade with other players if they have extra recipe copies but it can be expensive, but no need to wait weeks after weeks to get it done.

    i would love to see 'advanced noticed" crafting shedule timeframe and to know how soon when i can make one.

    PLEASE let stop this sleep deprivation and burnouts. every players loves to see improvements and to have fun and move on to next goal.

    as of now, recently, i barely stay awake for 2-3 hrs and sleep on keyboard, sometime i had to let go and sleep on lounger.
    but right now, some friend said they could make few, but that would be several days or longer when it shows up. So i can get my sleep pattern back on track.

    considering the other comments in this topic you should realize that it ain't gonna get better

    too bad, because the anti-profession comments from game chat are never echoed on the forum

    about too long, too great an AD sink, or otherwise just being an outdated painful process.

    needless to say, I agree with your assessment
  • jmiller84jmiller84 Posts: 171Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    If you've only got a 20% chance at tier 3 you're better off not going into Masterwork Professions. Found out almost immediately when I started with MW profs, if you don't have a Mythic Forgehammer of Gond, don't bother. It's expensive and time consuming with it, can only imagine without out.
    HR: Vretzen
    GWF: Vretzina
    OP: Vee
    DC: Evee
    CW: nezterV

    Leader - Valaraukari Ascension
  • kvetkvet Posts: 2,700Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Like most people, the devs will generally ignore people bitching and moaning about something. A much more effective route is to offer actual solutions to problems... Just point out all the flaws doesn't really do anyone any good. If you want to drive change, you need to know what the change is you want made. Otherwise, it's just another person complaining.

    I'm not a big fan of masterwork either, I think it's way to convoluted. I get that it should take effort because in this case, the ultimate rewards really do justify the effort and expense it takes to get there. But, without a forgehammer - which is really hard to get without already having tons of AD handy - MW crafting is basically out of reach.

    So, what are some ways to change professions for the better? Here's a few ideas:
    • Do away with rare tasks. They don't really make sense - why are they rare? If you have all the reqs just sitting in your inventory, why not just go do it? I don't see the logic there. It feel like an artificial way to limit production - just do that with longer run times instead. There's precedent there in Alchemy.. make the tasks take 48 or 72 hours or whatever. That will at least give players a sense of progress instead of just waiting around for the task to magically show up.
    • Run some numbers and remove the tasks no one really uses. There is likely a clear usage curve that will show 90% of players only really use about 10% of profession tasks at rank 25... might as well dump the useless tasks.
    • Make the profession gear better. By the time most players are able to make gear, they've already picked up gear that's better than whatever they can make - this means crafting for any reason other than leveling your skills is a waste, as it all the gear made from it. There is generally nothing useful made from crafting at all now, with a few obvious exceptions (like masterwork and leadership RP farming, for example)
    • Update the UI. The profession UI is clunky and needs some love. For all that's holy, add a "Collect All" button!
    Oh, I guess I should also point at that the gemmed clothes aren't considered BiS anymore - primal is where it's at these days, and you don't need professions to get those.

  • jmiller84jmiller84 Posts: 171Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    kvet said:


    Update the UI. The profession UI is clunky and needs some love. For all that's holy, add a "Collect All" button!


    That option is long overdue. I'd even take a step further and add not just "Collect All" but "Collect and Restart All"
    HR: Vretzen
    GWF: Vretzina
    OP: Vee
    DC: Evee
    CW: nezterV

    Leader - Valaraukari Ascension
  • flippy#8481 flippy Posts: 198Member Arc User
    jmiller84 said:

    If you've only got a 20% chance at tier 3 you're better off not going into Masterwork Professions. Found out almost immediately when I started with MW profs, if you don't have a Mythic Forgehammer of Gond, don't bother. It's expensive and time consuming with it, can only imagine without out.

    yes forgehammer makes mastercraft II plausible

    but for the unpleasant news

    getting MC 4 is gonna be a bear on steroids . . . interlocking requirements . . . get all MC2 to get all MC3 to open access ( beyond filling requirements with AD ) for most any MC4

    Alchemy is the exception, you can open alchemy mc4 without the others
  • horgadoon#1714 horgadoon Posts: 7Member Arc User
    Seems like a terminology issue. Whether or not those are mastercrafting "items", they are required to complete the mastercrafting "quests". Step #2 of Mastercrafting quest #1 is to build the random gear. Still takes a long time to get a chance to build the gear. If you don't build/obtain this gear you can't progress in mastercrafting.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 6,528Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Seems like a terminology issue. Whether or not those are mastercrafting "items", they are required to complete the mastercrafting "quests". Step #2 of Mastercrafting quest #1 is to build the random gear. Still takes a long time to get a chance to build the gear. If you don't build/obtain this gear you can't progress in mastercrafting.

    If you have not really started, I suggest you not to go forward for this unless you already how much pain it will be. On the other hand, if one complains about this 'little' pain to get started, one may not really know what is coming.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Posts: 933Member Arc User
    jmiller84 said:

    kvet said:


    Update the UI. The profession UI is clunky and needs some love. For all that's holy, add a "Collect All" button!


    That option is long overdue. I'd even take a step further and add not just "Collect All" but "Collect and Restart All"
    I would love to be able to collect and restart all with just a click or two!
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Posts: 1,490Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    kvet said:

    Gemmed Elemental Shirt is not a Masterwork item. The only randomness involved is whether you succeed at a given task, which is not at all guaranteed, but the task itself is not a rare task and is therefore unlike the Gemmed Element Shirt task, which is a rare task - which, like MW, you can fail even when you do happen to be able to start it.

    Anyway, I see you're point here, but you're QQing at the wrong mechanic... I think it's this that's flawed :)

  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,424Member Arc User
    edited August 2018

    No these are rare task, putting them on a schedule removes this - master crafting should not be simple to complete and doing this de-values the process for everyone else who has achieved this.



    Have you looked at the AH?

    1) This is a ridiculous argument. Changes made to the game does nothing to the value of players that have already reached the achievement.

    2) Even if the argument was valid, there are many, many fine things in the game that the devs have chosen to make easier/reduce the costs or time for.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,424Member Arc User

    Eh? Those items don't come from mastercrafting. You just need to make a couple items one time to unlock mastercrafting... Masterwork professions are not random.

    The recipes for some craft, mailsmithing for example, require the crafting of 3 piece of equipment. 2 of thos epieces are pare of the "random rares" that only show up @ the top of the crafting list. They do NOT all show up at once, and it can take months for a player to come across them if they are not Professional Neverwinter players.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,424Member Arc User
    edited August 2018
    kvet said:

    Like most people, the devs will generally ignore people bitching and moaning about something. A much more effective route is to offer actual solutions to problems... Just point out all the flaws doesn't really do anyone any good. If you want to drive change, you need to know what the change is you want made. Otherwise, it's just another person complaining.

    I'm not a big fan of masterwork either, I think it's way to convoluted. I get that it should take effort because in this case, the ultimate rewards really do justify the effort and expense it takes to get there. But, without a forgehammer - which is really hard to get without already having tons of AD handy - MW crafting is basically out of reach.

    So, what are some ways to change professions for the better? Here's a few ideas:

    • Do away with rare tasks. They don't really make sense - why are they rare? If you have all the reqs just sitting in your inventory, why not just go do it? I don't see the logic there. It feel like an artificial way to limit production - just do that with longer run times instead. There's precedent there in Alchemy.. make the tasks take 48 or 72 hours or whatever. That will at least give players a sense of progress instead of just waiting around for the task to magically show up.
    • Run some numbers and remove the tasks no one really uses. There is likely a clear usage curve that will show 90% of players only really use about 10% of profession tasks at rank 25... might as well dump the useless tasks.
    • Make the profession gear better. By the time most players are able to make gear, they've already picked up gear that's better than whatever they can make - this means crafting for any reason other than leveling your skills is a waste, as it all the gear made from it. There is generally nothing useful made from crafting at all now, with a few obvious exceptions (like masterwork and leadership RP farming, for example)
    • Update the UI. The profession UI is clunky and needs some love. For all that's holy, add a "Collect All" button!
    Oh, I guess I should also point at that the gemmed clothes aren't considered BiS anymore - primal is where it's at these days, and you don't need professions to get those.

    I'm just going to ignore the bitchy bitching comment.

    The Gemmed Pants & Shirt are requirements for finishing the tier 1 mastercrafting task, for mailsmithing at least, I haven't started tailor, or leathersmith.

    The OP DID offer a solution. He (or she) asked for a schedule of the rare profession tasks, so that he only has to spend one sleepless night waiting for the right task, as opposed to setting an alarm to get up every night to check. Totally reasonable ask, IMNHO.
  • strathkinstrathkin Posts: 1,242Member Arc User
    edited August 2018
    wylonus said:

    this concept is really bad, because i dont know when is next SPECIFIC timed slot with "gemmed" items, this is totally "Sleep Deprivation" by watching and waiting for next changes rotations. when i sleep, and it was up and available, that isnt very nice.

    just in my opinion, it is terrible way and all unknown specific shedule when that recipe shows up. i believe this need to be change, No ONE likes random timer rotation or other time sinker that may cause some players to give up in disgusted and frustrated.

    Devs, this is suppose to be a game was meant to be enjoy but not waiting for 3-4 weeks to be able to catch that elusive recipe needed. i am tired and exhausted by waiting, no wonder why ESO has better success with master crafting writs and all it takes to find or trade with other players if they have extra recipe copies but it can be expensive, but no need to wait weeks after weeks to get it done.

    i would love to see 'advanced noticed" crafting shedule timeframe and to know how soon when i can make one.

    PLEASE let stop this sleep deprivation and burnouts. every players loves to see improvements and to have fun and move on to next goal.

    as of now, recently, i barely stay awake for 2-3 hrs and sleep on keyboard, sometime i had to let go and sleep on lounger.
    but right now, some friend said they could make few, but that would be several days or longer when it shows up. So i can get my sleep pattern back on track.

    Yea the Gemmed Items aren't Mastercraft Item's there actually Level 25 Rare Project's that can slot with any profession that's fully Advanced to 25.

    The issue he's identifying is there only 1-3 (Random) # of Rare Project's that is chosen (random) from a list of 12-24+ Rare project's depending on the Profession that will show each hour.

    NOTE: Both the # of Project shown, and the Projects chosen are Random.

    So if you have 2-3 Character's with Platesmithing be sure you check every Platesmith at the TOP of the hour. It is very possible to have each professional list a different # of Rare projects; they may also each list different projects so check as many as you can to increase your chances.

    Same applies for all professions be it Mailsmithing, Leatherworking, Tailoring, Artificing, Weaponsmithing, etc...

    Always check all profession crafters who can craft the item every hour if they have good tools..
    Post edited by strathkin on
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,906Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    If you think buying the items for MW 1 off the AH is too costly you should not be doing masterwork at all, that is by far the cheapest part of masterwork and if anything I think masterwork should be more difficult, not easier.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,592Member Arc User
    this is slightly off topic but seems like it might be the place to ask this question. how many maps is realistic to try and go thru over 2x resources weekend? will there be a new map set for raven loft?
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  • zephyriahzephyriah Posts: 2,946Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    this is slightly off topic but seems like it might be the place to ask this question. how many maps is realistic to try and go thru over 2x resources weekend? will there be a new map set for raven loft?

    I would say it will depend on you tolerance for tedium and the amount of time available. The Chult and Omu maps seem to take the most time and since the rewards are diluted (4 items possible vrs 3 in the others) one needs to run more of them for the same amount of items. I've known players who do over 100 per day, one of them did 1000 during a weekend.

    No, new maps. New maps only seem to come with large changes to Masterworks.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,424Member Arc User

    If you think buying the items for MW 1 off the AH is too costly you should not be doing masterwork at all, that is by far the cheapest part of masterwork and if anything I think masterwork should be more difficult, not easier.

    In other words, now that you have unlocked the bank vault, let's just hide the keys, shall we?
  • golemjoe#7652 golemjoe Posts: 8Member Arc User
    jmiller84 said:

    kvet said:


    Update the UI. The profession UI is clunky and needs some love. For all that's holy, add a "Collect All" button!


    That option is long overdue. I'd even take a step further and add not just "Collect All" but "Collect and Restart All"
    And a "favorites" section would be nice so that tasks you most often wanted to start were sorted at the top.
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