full tank and full dps running around and rolling over pretty much everything
Well you have the TRs They can have more tanking capability at the press of an E button, and you can't even work around that by attacking them from behind like you can to GFs. And that's not even the only tool they have. I agree GF is overperforming but the nerf in that case should be to damage, not to tankiness.
My shield only lasts 8 seconds from completely filled to empty and takes 16 seconds to go back up to full with gladiators guile. The issue of "infinite stamina" isn't the unique to GF, it's due to certain stamina boons that affect all classes and allow them to dodge/dash/teleport forever. If shield gets nerfed anymore it will be pretty much impossible for low geared GFs to tank PvE content, it is already an order of magnitude more difficult than doing so with an OP.
Gladiators is plain bad, if you use it and think this is the reason why GF stamina or whoever stamina stays filled is bs af.
I have no problem with GF tanking but let it be for the tanking GF like a Tactican or Protector, but for godsake, you can't have a juggernaut full tank and full dps running around and rolling over pretty much everything they met because the shield absorbs 80% of the damage and PRACTICALLY never goes down, the dps can't be having this much tanking capabilities at the merely pressing shift button. Not even paladin shield comes close, actually paladin shield is really radiculously weak compared to GF, if not for the bugged shielding strike, the OPs would have nothing coming in their defense.
Thats the most ridiculous statement I ever heard. I know you play an SW and I know it's not easy dude but SW without mane and all the other broken items is really bad other than node rotating, grasp, and clean up kills in a serious game currently. It would make sense why you are so angry since your class has been F tier for so long.
My shield last 8-10 fully in combat with all the stamina boons, and yeah it's better than the OP Shield, but after the piercing changes of Mod 14 it indirectly buffed their survivability. In addition to that, they have way more temp HP and Sheilds to make up for it, and recently got that buff to Absolution which when combined with BO, are basically immortal even without Heroism and shielding strike, so lets get that covered first. Only thing killing them is multiple manes, gang bang of 2-5 people, stun chains, or an HR or TR. Not sure if you are just fighting GF's who shield hug or what, but you can watch my streams and a DPS GF survivability is so trash without the shield. It is the main way to survive. I traded most forms of survivability for DPS. You still take some of the damage through the shield. 20%-15% depending on if you have points in DS. CC is the bane of the GF, and you cannot be a super tank and do monster DPS, it's just not possible. This isn't mod 6-9. You get CC'd once as a GF it can cost you your life. You catch and kill the GF as he is about to do a rotation. And unfortunately currently in most cases as an SW, don't be naive enough to go up against a really good GF unless he's low af or you are with your team.
When S dub eventually gets your desired rework i'm sure you'll be happier.
full tank and full dps running around and rolling over pretty much everything
Well you have the TRs They can have more tanking capability at the press of an E button, and you can't even work around that by attacking them from behind like you can to GFs. And that's not even the only tool they have. I agree GF is overperforming but the nerf in that case should be to damage, not to tankiness.
You miss my point, on Conqueror the damage should stay as is, but since being Conqueror effectively converts you into a DPS class, you shouldn't be having as much defensives as a tank does - like a Tactican or Protector GF, yes they should be as resistant as they are because they do not have these kind of burst at hand, because the burst comes from Conqueror, while Conqueror tanks equally good as a Tactican an Prot (who even plays Prot these days???) while have RADICULOUS burst and same tankiness.
My shield only lasts 8 seconds from completely filled to empty and takes 16 seconds to go back up to full with gladiators guile. The issue of "infinite stamina" isn't the unique to GF, it's due to certain stamina boons that affect all classes and allow them to dodge/dash/teleport forever. If shield gets nerfed anymore it will be pretty much impossible for low geared GFs to tank PvE content, it is already an order of magnitude more difficult than doing so with an OP.
Gladiators is plain bad, if you use it and think this is the reason why GF stamina or whoever stamina stays filled is bs af.
I have no problem with GF tanking but let it be for the tanking GF like a Tactican or Protector, but for godsake, you can't have a juggernaut full tank and full dps running around and rolling over pretty much everything they met because the shield absorbs 80% of the damage and PRACTICALLY never goes down, the dps can't be having this much tanking capabilities at the merely pressing shift button. Not even paladin shield comes close, actually paladin shield is really radiculously weak compared to GF, if not for the bugged shielding strike, the OPs would have nothing coming in their defense.
Thats the most ridiculous statement I ever heard. I know you play an SW and I know it's not easy dude but SW without mane and all the other broken items is really bad other than node rotating, grasp, and clean up kills in a serious game currently. It would make sense why you are so angry since your class has been F tier for so long.
My shield last 8-10 fully in combat with all the stamina boons, and yeah it's better than the OP Shield, but after the piercing changes of Mod 14 it indirectly buffed their survivability. In addition to that, they have way more temp HP and Sheilds to make up for it, and recently got that buff to Absolution which when combined with BO, are basically immortal even without Heroism and shielding strike, so lets get that covered first. Only thing killing them is multiple manes, gang bang of 2-5 people, stun chains, or an HR or TR. Not sure if you are just fighting GF's who shield hug or what, but you can watch my streams and a DPS GF survivability is so trash without the shield. It is the main way to survive. I traded most forms of survivability for DPS. You still take some of the damage through the shield. 20%-15% depending on if you have points in DS. CC is the bane of the GF, and you cannot be a super tank and do monster DPS, it's just not possible. This isn't mod 6-9. You get CC'd once as a GF it can cost you your life. You catch and kill the GF as he is about to do a rotation. And unfortunately currently in most cases as an SW, don't be naive enough to go up against a really good GF unless he's low af or you are with your team.
When S dub eventually gets your desired rework i'm sure you'll be happier.
My observation is generally what it looks like to the majority - both TR and GF are overperforming.
I play SW, I think SW is fine and actually is in best condition since past-release nerfs (mostly to creeping death), I don't eat all of that "SW is weakest class" since I picked it due to this reasons, to prove its exactly the opposite - if I'm successful or not it's for people to judge, I'm happy that there are more SWs in PvP than ever, cause when I started, there was me and Sopi.
Whatever you want to write about the mane, it procs equally good from Indomitable Strenght which leaves enemies prone and then all you need is to press griffons and the opponent lies dead, it very rarely happens with SW - as per your example, because SW has weak burst, and sometimes even manticore gets devoured somewhere from mitigation, and actually GF shield does mitigate Mane proc, but on the contrary OP shield does not. Again we have yet another arguement for GF shield to be over the top.
SW is great when you juke your enemy, grasp is an amazing focus ability, but yeah in burst department it's simply not in the right place. IS mixed with griffons is not a 1 shot to a serious player or without buffs from other surrounding people or buffs naturally on the team like a DC's TI or an OP, thats just ridiculous. Maybe on pugs and trash kids. To do work with GW, they would Need to Mark, Hit fray then be hit 5 times to proc SWW, RA, have 5/5 points in Staggering challenge, then finish you off with CS, which that whole combo misses 90% of the time since IV's need to be hugging your balls for that to work. Not to mention all you would have to do is time your sprint to mitigate most if not all of the damage. GF can only mitigate the mane if someone else hits the mane user. I proved it on my stream multiple times that you cannot hit them then shield up fast enough it will proc as you press shield up.
Yeah but do you realize that all they have to do is press daily(Heroism), hit an at will at the air 3 or 4 times(SS), and OPTIONALLY press BO or Absolution and they are fine? They will eat it up. we'll still either take all of it or some of the mane damage. They will be ok. (while still retaining Temp or Shield). Thats the difference. Problem is not the GF's shield trust me. Do you also realize how easy it is to get behind a GF's shield with the speed of an SW and hit Hadaar's Grasp? Once you break the 45 degree angle mark you are behind them. Should I also remind you of BB going THROUGH GF's shield even if we have shield up. Last time I checked I don't have a 360 shield covering sides that I missed.
Conqueror already has less defenses than Protector or Tactician. Tactician takes 25% less damage than Conqueror. Protector takes 30% less, and gets a lot longer shield and more deflect. Conqueror gets 30% more damage when you decide to lose that survivability.
full tank and full dps running around and rolling over pretty much everything
Well you have the TRs They can have more tanking capability at the press of an E button, and you can't even work around that by attacking them from behind like you can to GFs. And that's not even the only tool they have. I agree GF is overperforming but the nerf in that case should be to damage, not to tankiness.
My shield only lasts 8 seconds from completely filled to empty and takes 16 seconds to go back up to full with gladiators guile. The issue of "infinite stamina" isn't the unique to GF, it's due to certain stamina boons that affect all classes and allow them to dodge/dash/teleport forever. If shield gets nerfed anymore it will be pretty much impossible for low geared GFs to tank PvE content, it is already an order of magnitude more difficult than doing so with an OP.
Gladiators is plain bad, if you use it and think this is the reason why GF stamina or whoever stamina stays filled is bs af.
I have no problem with GF tanking but let it be for the tanking GF like a Tactican or Protector, but for godsake, you can't have a juggernaut full tank and full dps running around and rolling over pretty much everything they met because the shield absorbs 80% of the damage and PRACTICALLY never goes down, the dps can't be having this much tanking capabilities at the merely pressing shift button. Not even paladin shield comes close, actually paladin shield is really radiculously weak compared to GF, if not for the bugged shielding strike, the OPs would have nothing coming in their defense.
Thats the most ridiculous statement I ever heard. I know you play an SW and I know it's not easy dude but SW without mane and all the other broken items is really bad other than node rotating, grasp, and clean up kills in a serious game currently. It would make sense why you are so angry since your class has been F tier for so long.
My shield last 8-10 fully in combat with all the stamina boons, and yeah it's better than the OP Shield, but after the piercing changes of Mod 14 it indirectly buffed their survivability. In addition to that, they have way more temp HP and Sheilds to make up for it, and recently got that buff to Absolution which when combined with BO, are basically immortal even without Heroism and shielding strike, so lets get that covered first. Only thing killing them is multiple manes, gang bang of 2-5 people, stun chains, or an HR or TR. Not sure if you are just fighting GF's who shield hug or what, but you can watch my streams and a DPS GF survivability is so trash without the shield. It is the main way to survive. I traded most forms of survivability for DPS. You still take some of the damage through the shield. 20%-15% depending on if you have points in DS. CC is the bane of the GF, and you cannot be a super tank and do monster DPS, it's just not possible. This isn't mod 6-9. You get CC'd once as a GF it can cost you your life. You catch and kill the GF as he is about to do a rotation. And unfortunately currently in most cases as an SW, don't be naive enough to go up against a really good GF unless he's low af or you are with your team.
When S dub eventually gets your desired rework i'm sure you'll be happier.
My observation is generally what it looks like to the majority - both TR and GF are overperforming.
I play SW, I think SW is fine and actually is in best condition since past-release nerfs (mostly to creeping death), I don't eat all of that "SW is weakest class" since I picked it due to this reasons, to prove its exactly the opposite - if I'm successful or not it's for people to judge, I'm happy that there are more SWs in PvP than ever, cause when I started, there was me and Sopi.
Whatever you want to write about the mane, it procs equally good from Indomitable Strenght which leaves enemies prone and then all you need is to press griffons and the opponent lies dead, it very rarely happens with SW - as per your example, because SW has weak burst, and sometimes even manticore gets devoured somewhere from mitigation, and actually GF shield does mitigate Mane proc, but on the contrary OP shield does not. Again we have yet another arguement for GF shield to be over the top.
Yeah but do you realize that all they have to do is press daily(Heroism), hit an at will at the air 3 or 4 times(SS), and OPTIONALLY press BO or Absolution and they are fine? They will eat it up. we'll still either take all of it or some of the mane damage. They will be ok. (while still retaining Temp or Shield). Thats the difference. Problem is not the GF's shield trust me. Do you also realize how easy it is to get behind a GF's shield with the speed of an SW and hit Hadaar's Grasp? Once you break the 45 degree angle mark you are behind them. Should I also remind you of BB going THROUGH GF's shield even if we have shield up. Last time I checked I don't have a 360 shield covering sides that I missed.
If you fight sabo it will go through shield cause sabo plays and works differently than exe, if you fight exe the sod proc will be mitigated by shield and so is the bloodbath, its up to TR. Thankfully for GFs we are currently living in pug-meta of going exe but trust me on this one, good sabo is more pain than exe will ever be.
Do you know how much heroism casts? how long? how easy to interrupt it is? its pretty much the next thing right after harrowstorm from SW powers. Like I wrote, OP has temp shields nerfed they don't protect, shield doesn't protect as well cause its HAMSTER af, the only reason Op survives is waving mace for immortality from Shielding Strike.
Conqueror already has less defenses than Protector or Tactician. Tactician takes 25% less damage than Conqueror. Protector takes 30% less, and gets a lot longer shield and more deflect. Conqueror gets 30% more damage when you decide to lose that survivability.
Where does Conqueror has less defense than Tactican in feautres tell me please? Obviously it has less defense than Protector because Protector capstone is the only thing GF has that is build straight for tanking. The only difference I can think of is Tact buffs AP gain through getting damaged while Conqueror stacks capstone and Shield Warrior Wrath in the meantime and ends up having radiculous burst. There is nothing that penalizes Conqueror and also nothing that penalizes Executioner for having high survivability and best bursts. Like at least the TR should not be able to regain stealth if they are damaged while in it, and GF Conqueror shield should last half as much as normal tank GF like Tactican or Prot cause they should have some exchange for what they get. Otherwise we remain in state of superclass.
There are 3 abilities on the TR that do not properly respect CC resistance or Shield.
Dazing Strike
Concussive Strikes
Bloodbath
1. Dazing Strike goes through CC immunites and ruins cooldowns, can also exploit shield.
2. A Concussive ability will take down a GF shield regardless if it's up.
3. If you do not meet a certain threshold of speed, BB will cut right through a shield even with it up. Regardless of Sab or Exe.
Prot has more shield time because of Shieldmaster which reduces the speed Stamina (Your shield) diminishes.
Not even to mention Shield Defense, Devoted Protector, Unshakeable line, if used correctly a Prot tank can perma shield, not even exaggerating where as a conq trades that in for DPS. Gets rid of Shield Talent and anything for survivability (besides Combat Superiority) and trades it in for damage.
For Tac Surging Tide, United, and Daunting Challenge is lost in place of more damage.
Not to mention all the other passives that give deflect, health back, or DR that is lost in place of more DPS.
Conq is laughably squishy compared to the others.
Yeah thats the trade off for what Heroism does. You are big for 6 seconds but contrary to popular belief it lasts the full 10 seconds, doesn't matter if the temp hp is "nerfed" they can stack it so much to where it doesn't matter. With low enough CD's and the AB buff the DR absorbs so much damage and basically nullifies every other class besides a TR or HR. 80% Damage Resistance from Shield mixed with AB which is 50% DR (literally 2 buttons) for 130% Damage resistance. Those are just 2 moves, that alone makes them immune to every class in the game besides Archer HR's and TR's. Thats not including there RB or anything else they have which they can easily go higher than 130%. They have 2 over shields mixed with Heroism Temp HP, mixed with Lion typically. ALL of which scale with DR from AB and Shield and any other source of DR on the OP. Not even with SS they are immortal unless you kill them with the things I listed in the previous post. Don't even tell me that SS is the only reason they survive, thats bs. They have multiple viability options to choose from, most of which can all be used in conjunction with each other at once.
Gift of Faith build is broken overpowered, it gives a massive advantage, I don't think you are looking at it from other classes' perspective, I invite you to do so, that thing is far too effective. It needs either a decently long cooldown or to have its healing lowered significantly.
Nerfing sw shadowslip? Nice one, the class literary has that to help the team rotating/capping nodes, it literary is one of the reasons for an SW to be in a match. I couldn't care less about pvp soulbinder but your suggestion would be a massive nerf for pvp dps hellbringer (which desn't have stellar damage nor survability in the first place), it would be on "disable 2 encounters from pvp cw/reduce pvp cw dodges to 1" tier.
As for Hadar's Grasp, unless your suggestion also includes increasing damage and reducing its cooldown which is far longer than Entangling Force's (which does justify its better cc uptime), it should be left alone, you conveniently didn't mention those differences between both encounters and it is not the first time you do that. Unp elven + control resistance boons already reduce HG cc uptime by a good amount, I use that enchantment myself, cc reduction + stamina regen is good to have for sw and I would guess cw as well. Negation'ed/shadowclad'ed warlocks often lose vs me even as templock and other classes overall, they are so dependant on HG to do a rotation that, when they face an trans/unp elven'ed player, they don't know well what to do so often get killed. To get full HG cc uptime you have to Warlock's Curse the target first by the way (+ cast WC again to continue rotation as HG consumes it)) so not only the encounter recharges significantly slower than Entangling Force, it requires extra time to land it on an enemy then you have to cast WC again, why should it have lower cc uptime?
Nerfing gwf sprint? The one and only non gf striker class without immunity frames (with an optimal damage rotation except maybe 1 daily) made slow? When they fight powerful players and/or help fightnig nodes, they often can be left on low hp, moment at which even a suboptimal geared warlock has a good chance to finish them off. With your suggestion, why would a team want a gwf? They deal high damage, have high movement speed, have few ways of increasing party damage and their survability is inversely proportionaly to the rival team's skill and gear. Your suggestion would make them literal cannon fodder (which they usually are unless geared to the moon and played correctly)
I don't think you consider other classes' perspectives when you make those suggestions.
I've seen more and more gf's and pallies increasing their HP to 400k. That's 200k damage with mane of manticore... enough to one shot most players with 199k hp or less, and if that's not enough they can also do crazy reflect damage.
I heard Tr's dps were reduced in mod14 yet most of you *TR haters* want more. Lets nerf tr's recovery, daily, speed, sod... wait sod was already nerfed... mehh lets nerf it more and as bonus lets have itc nerfed too. What about sw's movement speed + infinite stamina in combat? What about Gf's shield, speed, dps, and so many other things? What about Pallies temp shield/hp, reflect damage, selfhealing daily? What about Cw's infinite dodge, dps, combat advantage ?
Gift of Faith build is broken overpowered, it gives a massive advantage, I don't think you are looking at it from other classes' perspective, I invite you to do so, that thing is far too effective. It needs either a decently long cooldown or to have its healing lowered significantly.
Nerfing sw shadowslip? Nice one, the class literary has that to help the team rotating/capping nodes, it literary is one of the reasons for an SW to be in a match. I couldn't care less about pvp soulbinder but your suggestion would be a massive nerf for pvp dps hellbringer (which desn't have stellar damage nor survability in the first place), it would be on "disable 2 encounters from pvp cw/reduce pvp cw dodges to 1" tier.
As for Hadar's Grasp, unless your suggestion also includes increasing damage and reducing its cooldown which is far longer than Entangling Force's (which does justify its better cc uptime), it should be left alone, you conveniently didn't mention those differences between both encounters and it is not the first time you do that.
Unp elven + control resistance boons already reduce HG cc uptime by a good amount, I use that enchantment myself, cc reduction + stamina regen is good to have for sw and I would guess cw as well. Negation'ed/shadowclad'ed warlocks often lose vs me even as templock and other classes overall, they are so dependant on HG to do a rotation that, when they face an trans/unp elven'ed player, they don't know well what to do so often get killed. To get full HG cc uptime you have to Warlock's Curse the target first by the way (+ cast WC again to continue rotation as HG consumes it)) so not only the encounter recharges significantly slower than Entangling Force, it requires extra time to land it on an enemy then you have to cast WC again, why should it have lower cc uptime?
Nerfing gwf sprint? The one and only non gf striker class without immunity frames (with an optimal damage rotation except maybe 1 daily) made slow? When they fight powerful players and/or help fightnig nodes, they often can be left on low hp, moment at which even a suboptimal geared warlock has a good chance to finish them off. With your suggestion, why would a team want a gwf? They deal high damage, have high movement speed, have few ways of increasing party damage and their survability is inversely proportionaly to the rival team's skill and gear. Your suggestion would make them literal cannon fodder (which they usually are unless geared to the moon and played correctly)
I don't think you consider other classes' perspectives when you make those suggestions.
Dude, I told you, I also play CW in PvP and can counter Faithful DCs as well. You probably haven't learned how to overcome them and cry "NERF!" instead.
Now you're trying to justify the SW Hadar's Grasp by obtaining an unparalleled elven enchantment. Lol. Sure, a lot of players can easily get that. Nice rebuttal.
I was being ironic with the nerf of the other classes, by the way, but that to me would be the equivalent of removing a capstone of one of the few viable DC builds in PvP. If you don't get that then, I'm not sure why I'm trying to tell you it would be a problem.
1) Reduce the duration that a GF can block with shield, or let it be reduced with incoming attacks so that they cannot hide behind their second layer of mitigation forever.
Our shield has already been trough several nerfs. It used to be only drained when attacked, block 100% of the incoming damage and last much longer. Please don't nerf our tankiness anymore, we're a tank class after all, and the weaker one at that.
Also you complained about every classes stamina but forgot DCs who can just dash>dash>dash>push>dash>dash>dash and repeat ad infinitum.
I've seen more and more gf's and pallies increasing their HP to 400k. That's 200k damage with mane of manticore... enough to one shot most players with 199k hp or less, and if that's not enough they can also do crazy reflect damage.
I heard Tr's dps were reduced in mod14 yet most of you *TR haters* want more. Lets nerf tr's recovery, daily, speed, sod... wait sod was already nerfed... mehh lets nerf it more and as bonus lets have itc nerfed too. What about sw's movement speed + infinite stamina in combat? What about Gf's shield, speed, dps, and so many other things? What about Pallies temp shield/hp, reflect damage, selfhealing daily? What about Cw's infinite dodge, dps, combat advantage ?
My suggestions:
TRs dont need any nerf .. If anything only bloodbath should get nerfed abit BUT then other skills/powers will need buff as it basically the only really DPS atm for TR. Also Whisperknife needs a buff compared to Master Infiltrator-which 99% of TRs select due to ITC Whisperknife should have alot more DPS cause it does not have ITC and thus alot more squishy unless going mad on deflect/defenses to counter the squishness (Venguence Pursuit should be reviewed as it does not release you from CC effects as specified in tooltip - maybe if this is done more players will play WK)
SW infinite stamina needs nerf for sure.
CW needs alot more CC (defense) as sws/gwf/OPs/TR/and HR melt a CW on same item lvl. (not fair and haven't been fair for some time) on leader-board cw has worst kill/death ratio of any class so proof shows the issue. BIS CW shouldn't die as much as they do. since CC resist was added to PVP CW has really fallen of the wagon. do away with CC resist. it was better before this was added .
HR combat path needs rework - The ideal damage is somewhere between now and where it was before the ridiculous nerf.
GF is fine
OP is fine
DC needs some defense buff as it was nerfed way too much. (5-10%)
Drains should be removed from PVP. (im sure most regular pvp'ers support this - this has been requested many times for various reasons)
IF all of the above is done - this is done it wont be prefect but we will be a lot closer.
To everyone, why we don't stop to say nerf this and that? The Thread is going out of contest, and even if @scarabman has replied once or two times, this one has another purpose, and @scarabman asked for 2 thing that you would like to see in pvp next mod.
I understand that anyone has his own reason, but try to be positive just answering what he asked.
To everyone, why we don't stop to say nerf this and that? The Thread is going out of contest, and even if @scarabman has replied once or two times, this one has another purpose, and @scarabman asked for 2 thing that you would like to see in pvp next mod.
I understand that anyone has his own reason, but try to be positive just answering what he asked.
Its going to be harsh one – sorry for that in advance
I am experinced player with many MMOs under my belt. I am not new to Neverwinter as well – playing since MOD 5. From my point of view NW simply do not have a PVP cos that part of a game called pvp here is just a joke in compare to many other games.
And to make things clear – I love pvp, long time ago in other game I was commanding dozens of players in pvp fights – yes becouse there was need of command.
Now NWO has a huge potential to be a game with substancial and fun giving pvp side. Thing is its, at this point, completly oposite. I already seen that his topic – started as nice thread – is just going away to the point when you start talking about classes, skills even such BS like items breaking pvp. Now I am not saying you wrong, all I try to say is that you are missing a bigger picture.
And the bigger picture is if we need a pvp in this game at all. Yup, as easy as that.
Before the answer its is a good to try to make ta least some summary about a pvp here.
First of all – if any new player join my guild we strongly advice hin NOT TO go pvp under any circumstances unless in guild organised events – witch we organise very very raely as there is no point doing so. We simply dont want him to lose his time and taste to the game (if he didnt lost it already since we invite 70s only). That and that alone should give you a hint about my opinion of NW pvp.
Balance – Not existing. And the best part is – due to current game setup its simply impossible to do any balance. Any change in charcters for PVE reasons impacts PVP side and the oposite. Any new equipment or mechanics on PVE side impacts PVP and the oposite. And more then often it ends up in a mess where changing a class to work better in pvp ruins pve. Keep in mind that in NW each class have the option to be builded in many different ways witch makes things even more complicated if we speak in pvp in mind. Sorry but that construct alone bring any seriuos rework to the point where its game breaking for PVE or PVP side. I wonder dear devs how can you lie yourselves that there can be done anything to make pvp better here?
Reason -actually currently there is absolutely no reason to play pvp in NW, except if one likes to fight with living oponent. Glory – is not worth anything – its needed only for a stronghold buildings increasing pvp performance and since those do not give IL any more no1 want them any more or those are not that much wanted at least. Conqueror shards of power – yup those were mostly a main reason to try to win a daily pvp. But since barracks stronghold upgrade dont need them any more – no1 need them any more.
So PVP remains a place where no1 resonable need to go. No rewards, no need. Fun? Good joke. PVP open areas in IceWind – shody copy of open rvr lakes from other games but with potential – dead places. Guild vs Guild fight – dead. Weekly siege– sure once a week if some1 like it – mondays mostly . Gauntlgrym – you like to wait ages? So what is left – not much huh? - 2 maps where you gona get your hamster kicked by premade parties – if you actually get in before ou fall asleep waiting for a pop.
So to the point. Taking all of that to consideration there need to be made a crucial decision. Remove pvp completly or rework it and improve it – but if we choose the latter – all pvp system in this game have to be removed and started over.
There is absolutely no chance to make a healthy, balanced system out of what we have now. The pvp part must be separated from the pve. Cos if not, no matter what devs gona do ,every new module, class rework, item will have a chance to ruin pvp again. Do you devs really wanna waste resources like that with every mod?
Its going to be harsh one – sorry for that in advance
I am experinced player with many MMOs under my belt. I am not new to Neverwinter as well – playing since MOD 5. From my point of view NW simply do not have a PVP cos that part of a game called pvp here is just a joke in compare to many other games.
And to make things clear – I love pvp, long time ago in other game I was commanding dozens of players in pvp fights – yes becouse there was need of command.
Now NWO has a huge potential to be a game with substancial and fun giving pvp side. Thing is its, at this point, completly oposite. I already seen that his topic – started as nice thread – is just going away to the point when you start talking about classes, skills even such BS like items breaking pvp. Now I am not saying you wrong, all I try to say is that you are missing a bigger picture.
And the bigger picture is if we need a pvp in this game at all. Yup, as easy as that.
Before the answer its is a good to try to make ta least some summary about a pvp here.
First of all – if any new player join my guild we strongly advice hin NOT TO go pvp under any circumstances unless in guild organised events – witch we organise very very raely as there is no point doing so. We simply dont want him to lose his time and taste to the game (if he didnt lost it already since we invite 70s only). That and that alone should give you a hint about my opinion of NW pvp.
Balance – Not existing. And the best part is – due to current game setup its simply impossible to do any balance. Any change in charcters for PVE reasons impacts PVP side and the oposite. Any new equipment or mechanics on PVE side impacts PVP and the oposite. And more then often it ends up in a mess where changing a class to work better in pvp ruins pve. Keep in mind that in NW each class have the option to be builded in many different ways witch makes things even more complicated if we speak in pvp in mind. Sorry but that construct alone bring any seriuos rework to the point where its game breaking for PVE or PVP side. I wonder dear devs how can you lie yourselves that there can be done anything to make pvp better here?
Reason -actually currently there is absolutely no reason to play pvp in NW, except if one likes to fight with living oponent. Glory – is not worth anything – its needed only for a stronghold buildings increasing pvp performance and since those do not give IL any more no1 want them any more or those are not that much wanted at least. Conqueror shards of power – yup those were mostly a main reason to try to win a daily pvp. But since barracks stronghold upgrade dont need them any more – no1 need them any more.
So PVP remains a place where no1 resonable need to go. No rewards, no need. Fun? Good joke. PVP open areas in IceWind – shody copy of open rvr lakes from other games but with potential – dead places. Guild vs Guild fight – dead. Weekly siege– sure once a week if some1 like it – mondays mostly . Gauntlgrym – you like to wait ages? So what is left – not much huh? - 2 maps where you gona get your hamster kicked by premade parties – if you actually get in before ou fall asleep waiting for a pop.
So to the point. Taking all of that to consideration there need to be made a crucial decision. Remove pvp completly or rework it and improve it – but if we choose the latter – all pvp system in this game have to be removed and started over.
There is absolutely no chance to make a healthy, balanced system out of what we have now. The pvp part must be separated from the pve. Cos if not, no matter what devs gona do ,every new module, class rework, item will have a chance to ruin pvp again. Do you devs really wanna waste resources like that with every mod?
Thanks a lot, I allready though everyone was gonna pretend as if this kind of PVP got a future. I read thousands of threads about PVP and took part from mod 4-10 on PC , watching near all ambitious player leaving. Learning mod by mod that every, new boon, broken gear, drain, mount, powercreep etc. was simply destroying any kind of acceptable, competetive PVP -> a simple and obvious fact. I read 100`s of useless threats about balance, broken classes , nerfs etc., not that any try in the past was able to solve problems, it got worse and worse. Neverwinter operates with >1 million variables trying to balance PVP and has about 1/4 dev that takes care of it. Other game startad to equalize and downstrip PVP to get thing balanced , doing so with an armada of devs in the back !
Fact is, you even don´t need all that powercreep and broken toys etc. to enjoy this kind of combatsystem everyone is so happy about. Most player simply stick with their gear and can´t let go, wich is a mayor problem since long. Watching many player arguing, even though they witness a dramatic playerloos during the last years, standing themself maxed and proud, a lion to the left, on a capstone but.... no competetive player in sight, they are all gone.
Only to mirror the actual state, we talk about 10 active player on PC taking part in Domination this moment!
@vordayn you literary keep disregarding differences between Hadar's Grasp and Entangling Force and keep ignoring my question regarding it, gg man, you're so biased it's rather funny.
Look at my 999999 threads asking to nerf oppresor cw... oh wait, I just put an elven on
I've seen more and more gf's and pallies increasing their HP to 400k. That's 200k damage with mane of manticore... enough to one shot most players with 199k hp or less, and if that's not enough they can also do crazy reflect damage.
I heard Tr's dps were reduced in mod14 yet most of you *TR haters* want more. Lets nerf tr's recovery, daily, speed, sod... wait sod was already nerfed... mehh lets nerf it more and as bonus lets have itc nerfed too. What about sw's movement speed + infinite stamina in combat? What about Gf's shield, speed, dps, and so many other things? What about Pallies temp shield/hp, reflect damage, selfhealing daily? What about Cw's infinite dodge, dps, combat advantage ?
This is straight up hilarious. CWs do NOT have infinite dodge. You can warp 3 times under normal circumstances. If you stack stamina, use Severe Reaction, Gladiators guile and have U. Elven Battle you can warp...4 times. 5 if you time it right. Even if a CW warped 5 times straight it does not have the same duration as shield on GF/OP, or the stealth on HRs/TRs. DCs actually have more dodge (slide) than a CW does. Notice the lack of CW dodge needs nerf q_q post. If you want to cry about something on the CW thats valid then you can simply bring up the shield on tab.
This comment just reeks of "i'm losing my piercing damage so every other class needs nerfed now." Stop reaching dude. If every class had piercing the way TRs did in mod 13, TRs even with stealth, would be bottom of the barrel. HRs with piercing mod 13 are able to melt TRs. Imagine a GF/CW/SW etc with piercing against the already squishy TR. Lastly CWs should'nt be trying to stack stamina anyway.
I've seen more and more gf's and pallies increasing their HP to 400k. That's 200k damage with mane of manticore... enough to one shot most players with 199k hp or less, and if that's not enough they can also do crazy reflect damage.
I heard Tr's dps were reduced in mod14 yet most of you *TR haters* want more. Lets nerf tr's recovery, daily, speed, sod... wait sod was already nerfed... mehh lets nerf it more and as bonus lets have itc nerfed too. What about sw's movement speed + infinite stamina in combat? What about Gf's shield, speed, dps, and so many other things? What about Pallies temp shield/hp, reflect damage, selfhealing daily? What about Cw's infinite dodge, dps, combat advantage ?
If every class had piercing the way TRs did in mod 13, TRs even with stealth, would be bottom of the barrel.
Are you serious or sarcastic ? A class with: 1. infinite dodge 2. stealth 3. at high deflect/deflectseverity only getting half of what other classes have to tolerate 4. broken cc 5. ITC
can´t be called squishy. We all know what to think about player that call themself squishy, running a TR in PVP, do we?
I've seen more and more gf's and pallies increasing their HP to 400k. That's 200k damage with mane of manticore... enough to one shot most players with 199k hp or less, and if that's not enough they can also do crazy reflect damage.
I heard Tr's dps were reduced in mod14 yet most of you *TR haters* want more. Lets nerf tr's recovery, daily, speed, sod... wait sod was already nerfed... mehh lets nerf it more and as bonus lets have itc nerfed too. What about sw's movement speed + infinite stamina in combat? What about Gf's shield, speed, dps, and so many other things? What about Pallies temp shield/hp, reflect damage, selfhealing daily? What about Cw's infinite dodge, dps, combat advantage ?
If every class had piercing the way TRs did in mod 13, TRs even with stealth, would be bottom of the barrel.
Are you serious or sarcastic ? A class with: 1. infinite dodge 2. stealth 3. at high deflect/deflectseverity only getting half of what other classes have to tolerate 4. broken cc 5. ITC
can´t be called squishy. We all know what to think about player that call themself squishy, running a TR in PVP, do we?
You completely do not understand piercing damage do you? It ignores ALL defense and deflect and goes straight to your HP. A hit for 100k damage would typically be mitigated by defense, then what remains can possibly be deflected. Piercing means that 100k goes straight to your HP. You can have 100% Deflect chance and DR and piercing damage will still melt you.
I'm guessing you cannot comprehend that there are some classes/builds that can burn TRs quickly. I stand by my statement. W/o the piercing damage (still mod 13 on console) TRs are easy to handle. Even with this mod I can kill TRs fast. The issue is not their survivability its piercing. In this game, overwhelming offense > any defenses you have. I also mentioned in that post how HRs can burn TRs fast as they also have piercing. Lets just ignore that and put TRs on a godly high horse...
Further points:
Mod 11 when HRs were the ones with unmitigated damage TRs died fast (i.e another class with piercing melted them).
Prior to mod 13 with Mane/cursebringer TRs still had a lot of the things you mentioned; were not an issue what so ever.
Tr's only piercing attack = sod. Fighting any class with high deflect results in lower SOD damage.
Our class feature Oppressive Darkness which does "When you have Combat Advantage your At Wills and Encounter powers deal additional Piercing Damage to the target. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor."
If tr had 100% piercing on everything then you would be 1 hit killed with 500k++ damage without using a daily or sod.
> @slysnow#2290 said: > I'm guessing you cannot comprehend that there are some classes/builds that can burn TRs quickly. I stand by my statement. W/o the piercing damage (still mod 13 on console) TRs are easy to handle. Even with this mod I can kill TRs fast. The issue is not their survivability its piercing. In this game, overwhelming offense > any defenses you have. I also mentioned in that post how HRs can burn TRs fast as they also have piercing. Lets just ignore that and put TRs on a godly high horse... > > Further points: > > Mod 11 when HRs were the ones with unmitigated damage TRs died fast (i.e another class with piercing melted them). > > Prior to mod 13 with Mane/cursebringer TRs still had a lot of the things you mentioned; were not an issue what so ever.
@slysnow#2290 OK, my warlock wears leather same as TR. Give him stealth, infinite dodges and the ability to perma cc on top plus piercing damage and we are on par , lol. I have no interest in dicussing somthing like this, if your experience on console was TR´s that were easy to kill, then let it be and feel happy
I assure you that propperly build (and played) TR´s on PC were never in no mod an "easy kill", that´s absurd, even in times of oneshooting sabs (with zero defense stats) you had to catch them in between stealth and dodge, wich felt more like a "lucky punch", not to talk about perma-cc-builds, standing inside the "red sauce", not able to move or fight back 4ever. The top TR´s on PC had allways k/d ratios better than 100:1. Actually the best I can find atm is 1900:6, but we talk of "postapocalypse PVP", a dead land on PC where no competition exist any more. Btw. using drains or broken <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> items is no innate ability to counter another classes, it´s <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> PVP and one of many reasons why noone puts a step into PVP any more. I talk of legit setups. I read on console manes and drains and other things are standart, maybe that´s why PC and console are two different worlds.
We've talked about adding more maps to PvP and we'd love to do it. However, we recognize there have been issues with PvP balance and we have decided to put our PvP focus on that problem, first. We've been working toward that goal over the last couple of expansions by hitting some of the largest problems faced in PvP and there are more changes in the pipeline that will come in M15.
The biggest hurdle to overcome is the out-of-control numbers that some of the stats have right now (e.g. recovery, lifesteal). We're actively working on a long term solution for those problems but it's a huge undertaking.
I am thrilled to see a dev mention the PVP stat powercreep issue and that an attempt to tackle this is in the works. Powercreep greatly reduces quality of life for both maxed out veterans and low geared newer players.
Back when the CC diminishing returns system was implemented, one of the biggest flaws pointed out with it is that even if it was implemented well, it is not a viable long term solution to the issue it was trying to solve. Powercreep has a nasty tendency to undo the more targeted PVP balancing attempts that have been made, such as adjustments to class powers and systems like CC diminishing returns. Powercreep when it isn't busy undoing previous fix attempts, often creates new issues. This ensures that a lot of the effort the devs have put into various balance attempts ends up going to waste.
As one prominent example, players with high recovery can use their powers way more often than the devs seem to have accounted for when these powers were designed. This played a huge hand in issues like perma CCs, spamable dailies, healing and defensive powers having near 100% uptimes, ect. This combined with other forms of powercreep eventually lead to previously balanced or underpreforming powers becoming overpowered.
More recently, powercreep created an issue where you don't have to sacrifice anything in order to get the best of everything statwise, you can stack ideal numbers for all of your most important offensive and defensive stats without any real cons.
Powercreep also is why there is such a huge descrepency between newer low geared PVP players in PVP and well geared experianced players. I don't expect the upcomming powercreep tonedown to eliminate this but it should help a little bit, the more powercreep gets reduced, the less pressing this issue will be.
There is another part of your post I want to address, you said your team is focusing on adding more PVP balance adjustments instead of releasing new PVP maps yet.
I was under the impression that the devs had already created 1 new PVP dom map and said they would release it in the future. This was a while ago, and I'm unsure if I misheard but a dom map doesn't sound too costly to produce and its something the community has been wanting for a while now. Would it be possible to release at least 1 new 5 vs 5 dom map within the next few modules?
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
Here is part 1 of my bucketlist of changes I'd like to see implemented for PVP. This excludes the more detailed class balance suggestions since that does not seem to be what your dev team is looking for in this thread:
Among the #1 hot topics for the PVP community right now is non-stat related powercreep, especially the latest wave of broken and overpowered items plaguing PVP. Even when not bugged, these Items are usually too strong in a PVP setting and are intimately involved with a lot of player's decision to quit PVP.
A lot of PVP players want non-stat related item powers disabled in PVP, with some calling for more items to be included in this list than others. In particular, disabling most or all non-stat related gear powers in PVP is a popular request right now. This is something I recommend as well, this would put a stop to hated items like mane of the manticore, cowl of the dead, chitters fangs, sandy's pants, ring powers, ect. It would also prevent many future items the devs release from causing problems in PVP.
There are also 2 other items that should be removed from the game entirely. These items despite the devs' repeated attempts to nerf them, are as hated as ever. Removing these 2 items from the game would likely result in comically little resistance if any. Since these item's release, I have yet to find a single PVPer who is against their removal from the game, even the people who use them don't seem to like that drains exist:
Another change I want to see is a safeguard for the solo que that prevents sync queing. A good idea would be adding a team reshuffler that automatically reshuffles the teams after everyone has accepted the que.
Right now, people can and do exploit the solo que to bring in premades or buddies, you hear about full premade sync queuing happening more on xbox but it also occasionally happens on PC. Sync queing into solo que with a buddy is extremely common on PC as well.
Preventing solo que syncing will also help a lot if the PVP rewards system gets an overhaul to go with it. This would keep premades from farming pugs in the solo que for easy rewards.
A rewards pass for PVP is also long overdue and would increase the PVP population by attracting more newer players and allowing people to progress through PVP instead of having to devote huge swaths of time to grinding PVE content for everything they need. Many players over the years have end up quitting or converting to full PVE play. Some of these people were diehard PVP players who didn't enjoy playing PVE and weren't going to turn to 100% pay to win to sustain their activities. You also have people who like both PVE and PVP but choose to devote 100% of their time to PVE owing to the lack of progression offered by PVP. The PVP ques were extremely active during the discontinued NCL event as well and a lot of these nostalgic PVP players would start playing again if a good rewards overhaul was implemented. Here are my suggestions:
A rework to the outdated veteran PVP campaign is much needed. The boons it offers are nearly useless and the novelty items it offers can only be claimed one time and are very lacking. A good adjustment to this would be adding in some desirable new stuff and repeatable milestone tasks that grant rewards. These sorts of tasks could be tied to reworked leader board accomplishments and scores. Strongholds siege should also be added to the veteran campaign.
PVP's currencies and match drops only net you outdated HAMSTER right now save for gear you only need to purchase one time. There is better equipment available through PVE and nothing to motivate people to keep coming back for more. The glory and grym coin stores badly need a rework and should include items that keep people coming back for more. Making grym coin stores have desirable rewards again would probably revive the close to abandoned guantlgrym que and is especially important. Banners of the fallen from strongholds siege also don't buy you much desirable stuff and this store should get an overhaul as well after the PVP population has increased some.
A PVP season system AKA revamped Neverwinter Combat League event is something a ton of PVP players have been asking for over the years and I highly recommend implementing something like this.
To protect a revamped PVP rewards system from botters and moochers, a major safeguard PVP needs is to gate most rewards behind winning the match. AD, special drops, ect should all be win only rewards. Glory should remain available as a participation prize, you could make everything in the glory stores bound to account to prevent botter mishaps and ensure that players who lost the match get something for their effort. Most of the win only prizes should be made sellable/tradeable.
Another major safeguard that should be implemented alongside a rewards overhaul is the solo que sync prevention safeguard I mentioned earlyer. This will prevent premades from farming solo que pugs for rewards.
I will link an older thread I posted on a possible way to overhaul PVP rewards. The parts of that suggestion thread that deal with old discontinued transmutes are no longer viable but the rest of it is still a decent framework to work with:
The PVP leaderboard should be updated. This would help bring back the competitive element of PVP. My suggestions below would also provide greater score accuracy, encourage better teamwork, make the leaderboard more support class friendly, and discourage self serving behavior:
Add more categories to the leaderboard scores. Here are a few good options for new categories: -- All scores should be grouped by the que they were made in. As an example, if you got 50 kills/102 deaths in the regular que, 800 kills/4 deaths in the solo que, and 36 kills/20 deaths in guantlgrym, the leaderboard would list them all separately. -- Add more support class friendly categories. -- If possible, add a nodes defended category. -- Add node caps to the leaderboard categories.
As I suggested earlier, connect the veteran campaign repeatable milestones task idea to the leaderboard. One of these tasks should be to get the majority of your kills while standing on a node for X number of matches. So support classes can get in on the action as well, there should be another variant of this task for doing the majority of your healing, buffing, and damage taking while on node.
Make everyone's match history including player names on both teams publicly visible. Right now, only you can see your own match history details.
Add strongholds siege to the list of PVP types the scoreboard recognizes.
Add in a team leaderboard and score categories oriented towards ranking entire teams. This would help a lot if a ravamped NCL event/PVP season system was ever released.
Another hot topic lately for the PVP community has been the idea of adding more PVP updates that cater to competitive PVP play. I've already discussed leaderboard fixes above which touches on this some but another popular idea is a PVP team window and competitive PVP que to go along with the solo que. Here is an excellent thread that went over this idea in detail:
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
Related to class balance, I'd like to see a consorted effort to increase build variety for all classes. Many feats trees and paragon paths lag behind the rest and need some love and attention. Many powers are underwhelming and see significantly less use than others. Many classes are stuck with only 1 or 2 meta builds and are nearly clones of each other as a result.
Creating a duplicate of each power in the game for PVP and then tweaking those duplicates for one game mode or the other as needed would help with build variety by making it easier to buff weak powers. This would also make balancing the classes for both PVE and PVP much easier and end the conflict of interest between PVE and PVP players vieing for power adjustments. Some powers already carry separate effects in PVP vs PVE, this idea would expand upon that and would make needed adjustments easier to carry out in the future.
Also related to this, is how some classes don't need certain stats in PVP, a major example being critical strike. If I remember right, critical hits deal less damage than your regular hits unless you are past a certain critical severity threshold, I can't remember for sure what that threshold was though. If this is still true, doing some work on this stat in PVP could improve build variety by providing more viable stat stacking options.
I also want to see icewind dale PVP get revived. Right now, its nearly abandoned and no serious play happens here.
One of the biggest issues facing icewind dale PVP was thankfully addressed in the module 14 patch notes, I'd like to give the devs a warm thank you for removing the conqueror's shards requirement from the barracks boon structure. This put a stop to a longstanding ugly conflict of interest between PVE shard farmers and the few PVPers that still hang out in icewind dale.
However, more work still needs to be done to salvage PVP in this zone. Another major reason for how little traffic open world PVP gets is that you can use companions and their active powers here. Companion powers and bonuses are built with PVE in mind and tend to be overpowered when placed into a PVP setting. The summoned companion grants you a huge amount of added stats and sometimes the companion itself is able to hit for huge amounts of damage. The active bonuses can be even worse considering killing the companion doesn't make their effects go away. As a few examples, there are 4 companions that grant insane amounts of control bonus and control resist, a total of 65% control bonus and 75% control resist adding up all of them. There are numerous companions that grant massive extra heals as well. You can also add extra control powers, tons of extra damage, ect. It is absolutely essential that companions be disabled in icewind dale PVP if an attempt to revive this PVP type is made.
Icewind Dale also lost a huge chunk of its PVP population due to the instance switching nerf the zone got a long time ago. This was probably done to stop one team from filling up the zone with a majority of their own teammates and outnumbering the other team. However this nerf ended up nearly killing icewind dale PVP altogether, massive guild vs guild fights no longer take place here and organizing matches in general here is a pain. It is common knowledge that you can get around the instance switch nerf if you are partied with a friend on the instance you want to get to and change maps and back, this means you can still unbalance teams in the zone but the extra difficulty heavily discouraged the PVP community from using this zone for much. This instance switch nerf needs to be removed if this zone is ever to see high activity rates again.
When black ice was newer, the presence of larger black ice mining spots in openworld PVP drew a crowd of PVE farmers to the PVP zone. These PVEers weren't interested in fighting and a conflict of interest between usually peaceful PVEers and PVPers wanting free reign to attack anyone they wished was born. Trolls and bullies started attacking weak PVEers here as well and did a number on the relationship between PVEers and PVPers. Many PVPers set up a loose honor code of sorts and most PVPers started asking permission to fight a player instead of just attacking them outright. This helped PVEers but also lowered the icewind dale PVP population. Black ice farmers are in short supply nowadays but still occasionally show up. A good way to encourage more free fighting would be to change black ice mining sites in PVP to the same size and distance apart as the ones in the PVE sections of the map.
A rewards overhaul would also help revitalize icewind dale PVP, though some extra care will probably need to be taken for this zone to prevent farming and I'm not entirely sure what to suggest. Win only rewards aren't safe from icewind dale farming attempts, people simply create farming channels for this zone when there is something worth getting.
I would also like to see strongholds siege PVP get revived though this should happen later on when the PVP population has increased some from other updates.
The biggest obstacle to reviving siege PVP is low population size due to all of PVP's other problems right now.
A close runner up in why nobody plays siege is the infamously bad lag this map gets. Finding ways to reduce the lag here would help a lot.
Similarly to icewind dale PVP, the presence of companion active bonuses in siege PVP play a huge role in why most PVP players don't touch this que. Removing active companion bonuses from this que is a must.
The effects of class inbalances and powercreep are amplified in siege thanks to the number of people you can have. The issues from this could be reduced with more class adjustments and a powercreep reduction overhaul to PVP.
A lack of compelling rewards in siege also contribute to why nobody plays this. Siege has a great participation weekly quest but this has not resulted in any real PVP matches being started, instead people just do no-fight farming matches. Granted I'm not bothered by people farming this quest since you can do it in the private que safely out of anybody's way and can only complete it once per character a week. To encourage real PVP matches to take place here, desirable win only rewards and a currency store overhaul for banners of the fallen should be added to siege PVP.
Guantlgrym I won't discuss much here since my part 1 post's section on a PVP rewards overhaul would likely be enough to get this que popping again. I will reiterate the essential thing that guantlgrym needs though, grym coin vendors need to be reworked to include desirable rewards that aren't all the same as rewards offered by other PVP types. Some of the rewards offered also need to be things that keep people comming back for more instead of 1 time purchases.
For larger PVP matches and PVE raids, the que leader has to go through a lot of trouble to reshuffle the parties. They have to kick each person they want to move from the que group and invite them back in a specific order. Things get even more tedious if you try to organize the que group when inside the raid, whoever you invite back in will simply be dropped into a vacant slot and the que group comp will no longer match the party comps, making it much more difficult to put people where they need to be. It would be a huge quality of life improvement for PVPers and PVEers alike if que leaders could use a simple drag and drop option to move players in the que around.
Removing the crazy strict voting kick restrictions for PVP is also something I want to see. These restrictions make it much harder for teams to remove trolls, AFK people, toxic teammates, exploiters, AD moochers, and botters from their matches. These sorts of people seem to have gotten bolder than before thanks to the new restrictions. You can kick once, but oftentimes there are only a handful of matches going on at one time and you will most likely run into that person again or another person you have good reason to kick in under 4 hours. You can leave the match but you are likely to get a 30 minute que penalty if you do.
Someone suggested elsewhere that there should be a basic PVP tutorial available. This tutorial should include important basics on how to best help your team. (going to 2 at the begining of a match, the basics of how to rotate, fighting on node when possible, ect.)
Many players over the years have been requesting the foundry to be brought back and overhauled, it is severely outdated and has a lot of potential if it gets a proper overhaul. Among the updates the foundry should get if it is overhauled is an option to create custom PVP maps for the public to play.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
I can't quote your entire comment because of the sheer length (lol) trgluestickz but:
You have a lot of good ideas that if implemented would help the community. If they want to boost pvp participation, like mentioned for a while; give relevant and better rewards. If they want a huge upsurge they could create a key maker like in under dark but for pvp.
10k glory to craft an enchanted key (capped at 3-5 per week), pvp would be extremely active if that were to occur. Idk if that is a desire of the devs to boost activity in pvp. From what I hear pvp is dead on pc. It's fairly active on ps4. Maybe with their limited resources they like pvp traffic.
Comments
They can have more tanking capability at the press of an E button, and you can't even work around that by attacking them from behind like you can to GFs. And that's not even the only tool they have.
I agree GF is overperforming but the nerf in that case should be to damage, not to tankiness.
My shield last 8-10 fully in combat with all the stamina boons, and yeah it's better than the OP Shield, but after the piercing changes of Mod 14 it indirectly buffed their survivability. In addition to that, they have way more temp HP and Sheilds to make up for it, and recently got that buff to Absolution which when combined with BO, are basically immortal even without Heroism and shielding strike, so lets get that covered first. Only thing killing them is multiple manes, gang bang of 2-5 people, stun chains, or an HR or TR. Not sure if you are just fighting GF's who shield hug or what, but you can watch my streams and a DPS GF survivability is so trash without the shield. It is the main way to survive. I traded most forms of survivability for DPS. You still take some of the damage through the shield. 20%-15% depending on if you have points in DS. CC is the bane of the GF, and you cannot be a super tank and do monster DPS, it's just not possible. This isn't mod 6-9. You get CC'd once as a GF it can cost you your life. You catch and kill the GF as he is about to do a rotation. And unfortunately currently in most cases as an SW, don't be naive enough to go up against a really good GF unless he's low af or you are with your team.
When S dub eventually gets your desired rework i'm sure you'll be happier.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Yeah but do you realize that all they have to do is press daily(Heroism), hit an at will at the air 3 or 4 times(SS), and OPTIONALLY press BO or Absolution and they are fine? They will eat it up. we'll still either take all of it or some of the mane damage. They will be ok. (while still retaining Temp or Shield). Thats the difference. Problem is not the GF's shield trust me. Do you also realize how easy it is to get behind a GF's shield with the speed of an SW and hit Hadaar's Grasp? Once you break the 45 degree angle mark you are behind them. Should I also remind you of BB going THROUGH GF's shield even if we have shield up. Last time I checked I don't have a 360 shield covering sides that I missed.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Conqueror gets 30% more damage when you decide to lose that survivability.
United-5%
Daunting Challenge-10%
These all apply to the GF despite the confusing tooltip.
Dazing Strike
Concussive Strikes
Bloodbath
1. Dazing Strike goes through CC immunites and ruins cooldowns, can also exploit shield.
2. A Concussive ability will take down a GF shield regardless if it's up.
3. If you do not meet a certain threshold of speed, BB will cut right through a shield even with it up. Regardless of Sab or Exe.
Prot has more shield time because of Shieldmaster which reduces the speed Stamina (Your shield) diminishes.
Not even to mention Shield Defense, Devoted Protector, Unshakeable line, if used correctly a Prot tank can perma shield, not even exaggerating where as a conq trades that in for DPS. Gets rid of Shield Talent and anything for survivability (besides Combat Superiority) and trades it in for damage.
For Tac Surging Tide, United, and Daunting Challenge is lost in place of more damage.
Not to mention all the other passives that give deflect, health back, or DR that is lost in place of more DPS.
Conq is laughably squishy compared to the others.
Yeah thats the trade off for what Heroism does. You are big for 6 seconds but contrary to popular belief it lasts the full 10 seconds, doesn't matter if the temp hp is "nerfed" they can stack it so much to where it doesn't matter. With low enough CD's and the AB buff the DR absorbs so much damage and basically nullifies every other class besides a TR or HR. 80% Damage Resistance from Shield mixed with AB which is 50% DR (literally 2 buttons) for 130% Damage resistance. Those are just 2 moves, that alone makes them immune to every class in the game besides Archer HR's and TR's. Thats not including there RB or anything else they have which they can easily go higher than 130%. They have 2 over shields mixed with Heroism Temp HP, mixed with Lion typically. ALL of which scale with DR from AB and Shield and any other source of DR on the OP. Not even with SS they are immortal unless you kill them with the things I listed in the previous post. Don't even tell me that SS is the only reason they survive, thats bs. They have multiple viability options to choose from, most of which can all be used in conjunction with each other at once.
Guardian Fighter
TLO
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1221446/the-future-of-the-gf/p1 Existing Problems Still In The Guardian Fighter
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/comment/12984912m
Feat Changes I'd like to see in The Guardian Fighter
Gift of Faith build is broken overpowered, it gives a massive advantage, I don't think you are looking at it from other classes' perspective, I invite you to do so, that thing is far too effective. It needs either a decently long cooldown or to have its healing lowered significantly.
Nerfing sw shadowslip? Nice one, the class literary has that to help the team rotating/capping nodes, it literary is one of the reasons for an SW to be in a match. I couldn't care less about pvp soulbinder but your suggestion would be a massive nerf for pvp dps hellbringer (which desn't have stellar damage nor survability in the first place), it would be on "disable 2 encounters from pvp cw/reduce pvp cw dodges to 1" tier.
As for Hadar's Grasp, unless your suggestion also includes increasing damage and reducing its cooldown which is far longer than Entangling Force's (which does justify its better cc uptime), it should be left alone, you conveniently didn't mention those differences between both encounters and it is not the first time you do that.
Unp elven + control resistance boons already reduce HG cc uptime by a good amount, I use that enchantment myself, cc reduction + stamina regen is good to have for sw and I would guess cw as well. Negation'ed/shadowclad'ed warlocks often lose vs me even as templock and other classes overall, they are so dependant on HG to do a rotation that, when they face an trans/unp elven'ed player, they don't know well what to do so often get killed. To get full HG cc uptime you have to Warlock's Curse the target first by the way (+ cast WC again to continue rotation as HG consumes it)) so not only the encounter recharges significantly slower than Entangling Force, it requires extra time to land it on an enemy then you have to cast WC again, why should it have lower cc uptime?
Nerfing gwf sprint? The one and only non gf striker class without immunity frames (with an optimal damage rotation except maybe 1 daily) made slow? When they fight powerful players and/or help fightnig nodes, they often can be left on low hp, moment at which even a suboptimal geared warlock has a good chance to finish them off. With your suggestion, why would a team want a gwf? They deal high damage, have high movement speed, have few ways of increasing party damage and their survability is inversely proportionaly to the rival team's skill and gear. Your suggestion would make them literal cannon fodder (which they usually are unless geared to the moon and played correctly)
I don't think you consider other classes' perspectives when you make those suggestions.
That's 200k damage with mane of manticore... enough to one shot most players with 199k hp or less, and if that's not enough they can also do crazy reflect damage.
I heard Tr's dps were reduced in mod14 yet most of you *TR haters* want more.
Lets nerf tr's recovery, daily, speed, sod... wait sod was already nerfed... mehh lets nerf it more and as bonus lets have itc nerfed too.
What about sw's movement speed + infinite stamina in combat?
What about Gf's shield, speed, dps, and so many other things?
What about Pallies temp shield/hp, reflect damage, selfhealing daily?
What about Cw's infinite dodge, dps, combat advantage ?
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
Now you're trying to justify the SW Hadar's Grasp by obtaining an unparalleled elven enchantment. Lol. Sure, a lot of players can easily get that. Nice rebuttal.
I was being ironic with the nerf of the other classes, by the way, but that to me would be the equivalent of removing a capstone of one of the few viable DC builds in PvP. If you don't get that then, I'm not sure why I'm trying to tell you it would be a problem.
CWs, TRs can also dash/dodge/roll whatever you call it, but that ain't broken right now.
And GWFs, SWs can sprint and no other class can catch up.
TRs dont need any nerf .. If anything only bloodbath should get nerfed abit BUT then other skills/powers will need buff as it basically the only really DPS atm for TR.
Also Whisperknife needs a buff compared to Master Infiltrator-which 99% of TRs select due to ITC
Whisperknife should have alot more DPS cause it does not have ITC and thus alot more squishy unless going mad on deflect/defenses to counter the squishness (Venguence Pursuit should be reviewed as it does not release you from CC effects as specified in tooltip - maybe if this is done more players will play WK)
SW infinite stamina needs nerf for sure.
CW needs alot more CC (defense) as sws/gwf/OPs/TR/and HR melt a CW on same item lvl. (not fair and haven't been fair for some time) on leader-board cw has worst kill/death ratio of any class so proof shows the issue. BIS CW shouldn't die as much as they do. since CC resist was added to PVP CW has really fallen of the wagon. do away with CC resist. it was better before this was added .
HR combat path needs rework - The ideal damage is somewhere between now and where it was before the ridiculous nerf.
GF is fine
OP is fine
DC needs some defense buff as it was nerfed way too much. (5-10%)
Drains should be removed from PVP. (im sure most regular pvp'ers support this - this has been requested many times for various reasons)
IF all of the above is done - this is done it wont be prefect but we will be a lot closer.
@scarabman
I understand that anyone has his own reason, but try to be positive just answering what he asked.
So then @ scarabman & Cryptic
PVP wants:
- new maps
- more pvp events
- better rewards
- 3 Vs 3 deathmatch yeah!! Map (smaller new map)
- solo queue for Gauntilgrym
Thx
Its going to be harsh one – sorry for that in advance
I am experinced player with many MMOs under my belt. I am not new to Neverwinter as well – playing since MOD 5. From my point of view NW simply do not have a PVP cos that part of a game called pvp here is just a joke in compare to many other games.
And to make things clear – I love pvp, long time ago in other game I was commanding dozens of players in pvp fights – yes becouse there was need of command.
Now NWO has a huge potential to be a game with substancial and fun giving pvp side.
Thing is its, at this point, completly oposite. I already seen that his topic – started as nice thread – is just going away to the point when you start talking about classes, skills even such BS like items breaking pvp. Now I am not saying you wrong, all I try to say is that you are missing a bigger picture.
And the bigger picture is if we need a pvp in this game at all. Yup, as easy as that.
Before the answer its is a good to try to make ta least some summary about a pvp here.
First of all – if any new player join my guild we strongly advice hin NOT TO go pvp under any circumstances unless in guild organised events – witch we organise very very raely as there is no point doing so. We simply dont want him to lose his time and taste to the game (if he didnt lost it already since we invite 70s only).
That and that alone should give you a hint about my opinion of NW pvp.
Balance – Not existing. And the best part is – due to current game setup its simply impossible to do any balance. Any change in charcters for PVE reasons impacts PVP side and the oposite. Any new equipment or mechanics on PVE side impacts PVP and the oposite. And more then often it ends up in a mess where changing a class to work better in pvp ruins pve. Keep in mind that in NW each class have the option to be builded in many different ways witch makes things even more complicated if we speak in pvp in mind.
Sorry but that construct alone bring any seriuos rework to the point where its game breaking for PVE or PVP side. I wonder dear devs how can you lie yourselves that there can be done anything to make pvp better here?
Reason -actually currently there is absolutely no reason to play pvp in NW, except if one likes to fight with living oponent.
Glory – is not worth anything – its needed only for a stronghold buildings increasing pvp performance and since those do not give IL any more no1 want them any more or those are not that much wanted at least.
Conqueror shards of power – yup those were mostly a main reason to try to win a daily pvp. But since barracks stronghold upgrade dont need them any more – no1 need them any more.
So PVP remains a place where no1 resonable need to go. No rewards, no need. Fun? Good joke.
PVP open areas in IceWind – shody copy of open rvr lakes from other games but with potential – dead places. Guild vs Guild fight – dead. Weekly siege– sure once a week if some1 like it – mondays mostly
So to the point. Taking all of that to consideration there need to be made a crucial decision. Remove pvp completly or rework it and improve it – but if we choose the latter – all pvp system in this game have to be removed and started over.
There is absolutely no chance to make a healthy, balanced system out of what we have now. The pvp part must be separated from the pve. Cos if not, no matter what devs gona do ,every new module, class rework, item will have a chance to ruin pvp again. Do you devs really wanna waste resources like that with every mod?
I read thousands of threads about PVP and took part from mod 4-10 on PC , watching near all ambitious player leaving.
Learning mod by mod that every, new boon, broken gear, drain, mount, powercreep etc. was simply destroying any kind of acceptable, competetive PVP -> a simple and obvious fact.
I read 100`s of useless threats about balance, broken classes , nerfs etc., not that any try in the past was able to solve problems, it got worse and worse.
Neverwinter operates with >1 million variables trying to balance PVP and has about 1/4 dev that takes care of it.
Other game startad to equalize and downstrip PVP to get thing balanced , doing so with an armada of devs in the back !
Fact is, you even don´t need all that powercreep and broken toys etc. to enjoy this kind of combatsystem everyone is so happy about. Most player simply stick with their gear and can´t let go, wich is a mayor problem since long. Watching many player arguing, even though they witness a dramatic playerloos during the last years, standing themself maxed and proud, a lion to the left, on a capstone but.... no competetive player in sight, they are all gone.
Only to mirror the actual state, we talk about 10 active player on PC taking part in Domination this moment!
Look at my 999999 threads asking to nerf oppresor cw... oh wait, I just put an elven on
This comment just reeks of "i'm losing my piercing damage so every other class needs nerfed now." Stop reaching dude. If every class had piercing the way TRs did in mod 13, TRs even with stealth, would be bottom of the barrel. HRs with piercing mod 13 are able to melt TRs. Imagine a GF/CW/SW etc with piercing against the already squishy TR. Lastly CWs should'nt be trying to stack stamina anyway.
A class with:
1. infinite dodge
2. stealth
3. at high deflect/deflectseverity only getting half of what other classes have to tolerate
4. broken cc
5. ITC
can´t be called squishy.
We all know what to think about player that call themself squishy, running a TR in PVP, do we?
I'm guessing you cannot comprehend that there are some classes/builds that can burn TRs quickly. I stand by my statement. W/o the piercing damage (still mod 13 on console) TRs are easy to handle. Even with this mod I can kill TRs fast. The issue is not their survivability its piercing. In this game, overwhelming offense > any defenses you have. I also mentioned in that post how HRs can burn TRs fast as they also have piercing. Lets just ignore that and put TRs on a godly high horse...
Further points:
Mod 11 when HRs were the ones with unmitigated damage TRs died fast (i.e another class with piercing melted them).
Prior to mod 13 with Mane/cursebringer TRs still had a lot of the things you mentioned; were not an issue what so ever.
Fighting any class with high deflect results in lower SOD damage.
Our class feature Oppressive Darkness which does "When you have Combat Advantage your At Wills and Encounter powers deal additional Piercing Damage to the target. Piercing Damage cannot be deflected and ignores armor."
If tr had 100% piercing on everything then you would be 1 hit killed with 500k++ damage without using a daily or sod.
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
> I'm guessing you cannot comprehend that there are some classes/builds that can burn TRs quickly. I stand by my statement. W/o the piercing damage (still mod 13 on console) TRs are easy to handle. Even with this mod I can kill TRs fast. The issue is not their survivability its piercing. In this game, overwhelming offense > any defenses you have. I also mentioned in that post how HRs can burn TRs fast as they also have piercing. Lets just ignore that and put TRs on a godly high horse...
>
> Further points:
>
> Mod 11 when HRs were the ones with unmitigated damage TRs died fast (i.e another class with piercing melted them).
>
> Prior to mod 13 with Mane/cursebringer TRs still had a lot of the things you mentioned; were not an issue what so ever.
@slysnow#2290
OK, my warlock wears leather same as TR.
Give him stealth, infinite dodges and the ability to perma cc on top plus piercing damage and we are on par , lol.
I have no interest in dicussing somthing like this, if your experience on console was TR´s that were easy to kill, then let it be and feel happy
I assure you that propperly build (and played) TR´s on PC were never in no mod an "easy kill", that´s absurd, even in times of oneshooting sabs (with zero defense stats) you had to catch them in between stealth and dodge, wich felt more like a "lucky punch", not to talk about perma-cc-builds, standing inside the "red sauce", not able to move or fight back 4ever.
The top TR´s on PC had allways k/d ratios better than 100:1.
Actually the best I can find atm is 1900:6, but we talk of "postapocalypse PVP", a dead land on PC where no competition exist any more.
Btw. using drains or broken <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> items is no innate ability to counter another classes, it´s <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> PVP and one of many reasons why noone puts a step into PVP any more.
I talk of legit setups. I read on console manes and drains and other things are standart, maybe that´s why PC and console are two different worlds.
I am thrilled to see a dev mention the PVP stat powercreep issue and that an attempt to tackle this is in the works. Powercreep greatly reduces quality of life for both maxed out veterans and low geared newer players.
Back when the CC diminishing returns system was implemented, one of the biggest flaws pointed out with it is that even if it was implemented well, it is not a viable long term solution to the issue it was trying to solve. Powercreep has a nasty tendency to undo the more targeted PVP balancing attempts that have been made, such as adjustments to class powers and systems like CC diminishing returns. Powercreep when it isn't busy undoing previous fix attempts, often creates new issues. This ensures that a lot of the effort the devs have put into various balance attempts ends up going to waste.
As one prominent example, players with high recovery can use their powers way more often than the devs seem to have accounted for when these powers were designed. This played a huge hand in issues like perma CCs, spamable dailies, healing and defensive powers having near 100% uptimes, ect. This combined with other forms of powercreep eventually lead to previously balanced or underpreforming powers becoming overpowered.
More recently, powercreep created an issue where you don't have to sacrifice anything in order to get the best of everything statwise, you can stack ideal numbers for all of your most important offensive and defensive stats without any real cons.
Powercreep also is why there is such a huge descrepency between newer low geared PVP players in PVP and well geared experianced players. I don't expect the upcomming powercreep tonedown to eliminate this but it should help a little bit, the more powercreep gets reduced, the less pressing this issue will be.
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There is another part of your post I want to address, you said your team is focusing on adding more PVP balance adjustments instead of releasing new PVP maps yet.
I was under the impression that the devs had already created 1 new PVP dom map and said they would release it in the future. This was a while ago, and I'm unsure if I misheard but a dom map doesn't sound too costly to produce and its something the community has been wanting for a while now. Would it be possible to release at least 1 new 5 vs 5 dom map within the next few modules?
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Here is part 1 of my bucketlist of changes I'd like to see implemented for PVP. This excludes the more detailed class balance suggestions since that does not seem to be what your dev team is looking for in this thread:
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Among the #1 hot topics for the PVP community right now is non-stat related powercreep, especially the latest wave of broken and overpowered items plaguing PVP. Even when not bugged, these Items are usually too strong in a PVP setting and are intimately involved with a lot of player's decision to quit PVP.
A lot of PVP players want non-stat related item powers disabled in PVP, with some calling for more items to be included in this list than others. In particular, disabling most or all non-stat related gear powers in PVP is a popular request right now. This is something I recommend as well, this would put a stop to hated items like mane of the manticore, cowl of the dead, chitters fangs, sandy's pants, ring powers, ect. It would also prevent many future items the devs release from causing problems in PVP.
There are also 2 other items that should be removed from the game entirely. These items despite the devs' repeated attempts to nerf them, are as hated as ever. Removing these 2 items from the game would likely result in comically little resistance if any. Since these item's release, I have yet to find a single PVPer who is against their removal from the game, even the people who use them don't seem to like that drains exist:
Mark of stamina drain
Mark of AP drain
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Another change I want to see is a safeguard for the solo que that prevents sync queing. A good idea would be adding a team reshuffler that automatically reshuffles the teams after everyone has accepted the que.
Right now, people can and do exploit the solo que to bring in premades or buddies, you hear about full premade sync queuing happening more on xbox but it also occasionally happens on PC. Sync queing into solo que with a buddy is extremely common on PC as well.
Preventing solo que syncing will also help a lot if the PVP rewards system gets an overhaul to go with it. This would keep premades from farming pugs in the solo que for easy rewards.
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A rewards pass for PVP is also long overdue and would increase the PVP population by attracting more newer players and allowing people to progress through PVP instead of having to devote huge swaths of time to grinding PVE content for everything they need. Many players over the years have end up quitting or converting to full PVE play. Some of these people were diehard PVP players who didn't enjoy playing PVE and weren't going to turn to 100% pay to win to sustain their activities. You also have people who like both PVE and PVP but choose to devote 100% of their time to PVE owing to the lack of progression offered by PVP. The PVP ques were extremely active during the discontinued NCL event as well and a lot of these nostalgic PVP players would start playing again if a good rewards overhaul was implemented. Here are my suggestions:
A rework to the outdated veteran PVP campaign is much needed. The boons it offers are nearly useless and the novelty items it offers can only be claimed one time and are very lacking. A good adjustment to this would be adding in some desirable new stuff and repeatable milestone tasks that grant rewards. These sorts of tasks could be tied to reworked leader board accomplishments and scores. Strongholds siege should also be added to the veteran campaign.
PVP's currencies and match drops only net you outdated HAMSTER right now save for gear you only need to purchase one time. There is better equipment available through PVE and nothing to motivate people to keep coming back for more. The glory and grym coin stores badly need a rework and should include items that keep people coming back for more. Making grym coin stores have desirable rewards again would probably revive the close to abandoned guantlgrym que and is especially important. Banners of the fallen from strongholds siege also don't buy you much desirable stuff and this store should get an overhaul as well after the PVP population has increased some.
A PVP season system AKA revamped Neverwinter Combat League event is something a ton of PVP players have been asking for over the years and I highly recommend implementing something like this.
To protect a revamped PVP rewards system from botters and moochers, a major safeguard PVP needs is to gate most rewards behind winning the match. AD, special drops, ect should all be win only rewards. Glory should remain available as a participation prize, you could make everything in the glory stores bound to account to prevent botter mishaps and ensure that players who lost the match get something for their effort. Most of the win only prizes should be made sellable/tradeable.
Another major safeguard that should be implemented alongside a rewards overhaul is the solo que sync prevention safeguard I mentioned earlyer. This will prevent premades from farming solo que pugs for rewards.
I will link an older thread I posted on a possible way to overhaul PVP rewards. The parts of that suggestion thread that deal with old discontinued transmutes are no longer viable but the rest of it is still a decent framework to work with:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1237309/to-the-devs-a-fleshed-out-suggestion-for-pvp-rewards
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The PVP leaderboard should be updated. This would help bring back the competitive element of PVP. My suggestions below would also provide greater score accuracy, encourage better teamwork, make the leaderboard more support class friendly, and discourage self serving behavior:
Add more categories to the leaderboard scores. Here are a few good options for new categories:
-- All scores should be grouped by the que they were made in. As an example, if you got 50 kills/102 deaths in the regular que, 800 kills/4 deaths in the solo que, and 36 kills/20 deaths in guantlgrym, the leaderboard would list them all separately.
-- Add more support class friendly categories.
-- If possible, add a nodes defended category.
-- Add node caps to the leaderboard categories.
As I suggested earlier, connect the veteran campaign repeatable milestones task idea to the leaderboard. One of these tasks should be to get the majority of your kills while standing on a node for X number of matches. So support classes can get in on the action as well, there should be another variant of this task for doing the majority of your healing, buffing, and damage taking while on node.
Make everyone's match history including player names on both teams publicly visible. Right now, only you can see your own match history details.
Add strongholds siege to the list of PVP types the scoreboard recognizes.
Add in a team leaderboard and score categories oriented towards ranking entire teams. This would help a lot if a ravamped NCL event/PVP season system was ever released.
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Another hot topic lately for the PVP community has been the idea of adding more PVP updates that cater to competitive PVP play. I've already discussed leaderboard fixes above which touches on this some but another popular idea is a PVP team window and competitive PVP que to go along with the solo que. Here is an excellent thread that went over this idea in detail:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1238432/req-team-competitive-queue-for-domination-details
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Here is part 2 of my bucketlist of changes I'd like to see implemented for PVP:
Part 1 is directly above this post.
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Related to class balance, I'd like to see a consorted effort to increase build variety for all classes. Many feats trees and paragon paths lag behind the rest and need some love and attention. Many powers are underwhelming and see significantly less use than others. Many classes are stuck with only 1 or 2 meta builds and are nearly clones of each other as a result.
Creating a duplicate of each power in the game for PVP and then tweaking those duplicates for one game mode or the other as needed would help with build variety by making it easier to buff weak powers. This would also make balancing the classes for both PVE and PVP much easier and end the conflict of interest between PVE and PVP players vieing for power adjustments. Some powers already carry separate effects in PVP vs PVE, this idea would expand upon that and would make needed adjustments easier to carry out in the future.
Also related to this, is how some classes don't need certain stats in PVP, a major example being critical strike. If I remember right, critical hits deal less damage than your regular hits unless you are past a certain critical severity threshold, I can't remember for sure what that threshold was though. If this is still true, doing some work on this stat in PVP could improve build variety by providing more viable stat stacking options.
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I also want to see icewind dale PVP get revived. Right now, its nearly abandoned and no serious play happens here.
One of the biggest issues facing icewind dale PVP was thankfully addressed in the module 14 patch notes, I'd like to give the devs a warm thank you for removing the conqueror's shards requirement from the barracks boon structure. This put a stop to a longstanding ugly conflict of interest between PVE shard farmers and the few PVPers that still hang out in icewind dale.
However, more work still needs to be done to salvage PVP in this zone. Another major reason for how little traffic open world PVP gets is that you can use companions and their active powers here. Companion powers and bonuses are built with PVE in mind and tend to be overpowered when placed into a PVP setting. The summoned companion grants you a huge amount of added stats and sometimes the companion itself is able to hit for huge amounts of damage. The active bonuses can be even worse considering killing the companion doesn't make their effects go away. As a few examples, there are 4 companions that grant insane amounts of control bonus and control resist, a total of 65% control bonus and 75% control resist adding up all of them. There are numerous companions that grant massive extra heals as well. You can also add extra control powers, tons of extra damage, ect. It is absolutely essential that companions be disabled in icewind dale PVP if an attempt to revive this PVP type is made.
Icewind Dale also lost a huge chunk of its PVP population due to the instance switching nerf the zone got a long time ago. This was probably done to stop one team from filling up the zone with a majority of their own teammates and outnumbering the other team. However this nerf ended up nearly killing icewind dale PVP altogether, massive guild vs guild fights no longer take place here and organizing matches in general here is a pain. It is common knowledge that you can get around the instance switch nerf if you are partied with a friend on the instance you want to get to and change maps and back, this means you can still unbalance teams in the zone but the extra difficulty heavily discouraged the PVP community from using this zone for much.
This instance switch nerf needs to be removed if this zone is ever to see high activity rates again.
When black ice was newer, the presence of larger black ice mining spots in openworld PVP drew a crowd of PVE farmers to the PVP zone. These PVEers weren't interested in fighting and a conflict of interest between usually peaceful PVEers and PVPers wanting free reign to attack anyone they wished was born. Trolls and bullies started attacking weak PVEers here as well and did a number on the relationship between PVEers and PVPers. Many PVPers set up a loose honor code of sorts and most PVPers started asking permission to fight a player instead of just attacking them outright. This helped PVEers but also lowered the icewind dale PVP population. Black ice farmers are in short supply nowadays but still occasionally show up. A good way to encourage more free fighting would be to change black ice mining sites in PVP to the same size and distance apart as the ones in the PVE sections of the map.
A rewards overhaul would also help revitalize icewind dale PVP, though some extra care will probably need to be taken for this zone to prevent farming and I'm not entirely sure what to suggest. Win only rewards aren't safe from icewind dale farming attempts, people simply create farming channels for this zone when there is something worth getting.
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I would also like to see strongholds siege PVP get revived though this should happen later on when the PVP population has increased some from other updates.
The biggest obstacle to reviving siege PVP is low population size due to all of PVP's other problems right now.
A close runner up in why nobody plays siege is the infamously bad lag this map gets. Finding ways to reduce the lag here would help a lot.
Similarly to icewind dale PVP, the presence of companion active bonuses in siege PVP play a huge role in why most PVP players don't touch this que. Removing active companion bonuses from this que is a must.
The effects of class inbalances and powercreep are amplified in siege thanks to the number of people you can have. The issues from this could be reduced with more class adjustments and a powercreep reduction overhaul to PVP.
A lack of compelling rewards in siege also contribute to why nobody plays this. Siege has a great participation weekly quest but this has not resulted in any real PVP matches being started, instead people just do no-fight farming matches. Granted I'm not bothered by people farming this quest since you can do it in the private que safely out of anybody's way and can only complete it once per character a week. To encourage real PVP matches to take place here, desirable win only rewards and a currency store overhaul for banners of the fallen should be added to siege PVP.
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Guantlgrym I won't discuss much here since my part 1 post's section on a PVP rewards overhaul would likely be enough to get this que popping again. I will reiterate the essential thing that guantlgrym needs though, grym coin vendors need to be reworked to include desirable rewards that aren't all the same as rewards offered by other PVP types. Some of the rewards offered also need to be things that keep people comming back for more instead of 1 time purchases.
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For larger PVP matches and PVE raids, the que leader has to go through a lot of trouble to reshuffle the parties. They have to kick each person they want to move from the que group and invite them back in a specific order. Things get even more tedious if you try to organize the que group when inside the raid, whoever you invite back in will simply be dropped into a vacant slot and the que group comp will no longer match the party comps, making it much more difficult to put people where they need to be. It would be a huge quality of life improvement for PVPers and PVEers alike if que leaders could use a simple drag and drop option to move players in the que around.
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Removing the crazy strict voting kick restrictions for PVP is also something I want to see. These restrictions make it much harder for teams to remove trolls, AFK people, toxic teammates, exploiters, AD moochers, and botters from their matches. These sorts of people seem to have gotten bolder than before thanks to the new restrictions. You can kick once, but oftentimes there are only a handful of matches going on at one time and you will most likely run into that person again or another person you have good reason to kick in under 4 hours. You can leave the match but you are likely to get a 30 minute que penalty if you do.
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Someone suggested elsewhere that there should be a basic PVP tutorial available. This tutorial should include important basics on how to best help your team. (going to 2 at the begining of a match, the basics of how to rotate, fighting on node when possible, ect.)
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At some point, I'd like to see new PVP types get introduced, capture the flag and deathmatches would likely go over well.
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Many players over the years have been requesting the foundry to be brought back and overhauled, it is severely outdated and has a lot of potential if it gets a proper overhaul. Among the updates the foundry should get if it is overhauled is an option to create custom PVP maps for the public to play.
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PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
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Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
You have a lot of good ideas that if implemented would help the community. If they want to boost pvp participation, like mentioned for a while; give relevant and better rewards. If they want a huge upsurge they could create a key maker like in under dark but for pvp.
10k glory to craft an enchanted key (capped at 3-5 per week), pvp would be extremely active if that were to occur. Idk if that is a desire of the devs to boost activity in pvp. From what I hear pvp is dead on pc. It's fairly active on ps4. Maybe with their limited resources they like pvp traffic.