Yea at least on CONSOLE (PS4/XBOX) Crafters are charging for gear a lot more in line with what more traditional professions on PC used to charge. Yet recently on PC it's gotten utterly absurd - to the point now even Cryptic has been offering Specialized Knox Companion Packs once a week to offer a very UNIQUE and EXTREMELY RARE prize for the few Elite Dragon's swimming in Diamonds.
Now it's surely a great PRIZE but few can afford the high costs; but the vast majority bidding are all Mastercraft V professionals on PC. I mean the first one sold for 97m Diamonds if you had to buy those Diamonds on the AD:ZEN exchange that be almost $1,997.00 equivalent of ZEN. I think if they at least made it a tiny bit easier for a few to at least get started into Mastercraft we'd eventually seen 'a few' more but likely not a lot more. But we do need to at least help a few more get started on the path to Mastercraft so there are at least a few more crafter's at least of the lower level items if not the higher tiers.
There is a missing "why" here. Why it should be made easier? All mastercrafters stated at the same start point as you do, with no mastercraft unlocked. Back in the days, it was much much harder to unlock, chains and chains of failure at 35%. So now mods after you are saved most of those issues and it's much cheaper to unlock, why it should be made even easier?
You can put the AD and unlock it, or you can decide it's not worth the profit later and not unlock it. If you want it but don't have the AD, this is life, I don't think asking for a change is the right way, ask some friends to chip in, to help you unlock, and pay them back later. While I do not do MW now, when I've unlocked MW1, and it cost millions upon millions, friends helped me with materials, and in return I've made them the gear later when Iv'e unlocked.
Or it's because you want the knox companion too? And If I tell you that the person who won it, is not a MW, but a dungeon runner? Who farms dungeons, and events like many others do? What then?
You can unlock the "lower level items" practicly for free now, using the NPCs so what exactly do you want?
If it's just because one white tool gives one precent and another another, then lets just accept that as WAI because NW devs didn't want to create a seperate items and system just to get the percents right where thy wanted them, so those tools were created. This is the reality of things. If it bothers you that much, consider the other tools bugged, and that they should be 0 too. Problem solved.
Yea at least on CONSOLE (PS4/XBOX) Crafters are charging for gear a lot more in line with what more traditional professions on PC used to charge. Yet recently on PC it's gotten utterly absurd - to the point now even Cryptic has been offering Specialized Knox Companion Packs once a week to offer a very UNIQUE and EXTREMELY RARE prize for the few Elite Dragon's swimming in Diamonds.
Now it's surely a great PRIZE but few can afford the high costs; but the vast majority bidding are all Mastercraft V professionals on PC. I mean the first one sold for 97m Diamonds if you had to buy those Diamonds on the AD:ZEN exchange that be almost $1,997.00 equivalent of ZEN. I think if they at least made it a tiny bit easier for a few to at least get started into Mastercraft we'd eventually seen 'a few' more but likely not a lot more. But we do need to at least help a few more get started on the path to Mastercraft so there are at least a few more crafter's at least of the lower level items if not the higher tiers.
There is a missing "why" here. Why it should be made easier? All mastercrafters stated at the same start point as you do, with no mastercraft unlocked. Back in the days, it was much much harder to unlock, chains and chains of failure at 35%. So now mods after you are saved most of those issues and it's much cheaper to unlock, why it should be made even easier?
You can put the AD and unlock it, or you can decide it's not worth the profit later and not unlock it. If you want it but don't have the AD, this is life, I don't think asking for a change is the right way, ask some friends to chip in, to help you unlock, and pay them back later. While I do not do MW now, when I've unlocked MW1, and it cost millions upon millions, friends helped me with materials, and in return I've made them the gear later when Iv'e unlocked.
Or it's because you want the knox companion too? And If I tell you that the person who won it, is not a MW, but a dungeon runner? Who farms dungeons, and events like many others do? What then?
You can unlock the "lower level items" practicly for free now, using the NPCs so what exactly do you want?
If it's just because one white tool gives one precent and another another, then lets just accept that as WAI because NW devs didn't want to create a seperate items and system just to get the percents right where thy wanted them, so those tools were created. This is the reality of things. If it bothers you that much, consider the other tools bugged, and that they should be 0 too. Problem solved.
Now I realized I'd likely face the wrath of a few who clearly don't want things to be made any easier; even though Mastercraft is *still* a very crazy proposition for >95% of the player base today.
Yet I've wondered why those who disagree often resort to misdirection, or try to confuse a clear and simple argument. I'd accept if you said no I don't want to see it easier for others; even though Mastercraft II has been around now for almost 2.5+ years. Perhaps you don't care that it might provide a little more for others to slowly start working towards - even if it takes them considerably longer to have all Professions levelled to just Mastercraft II. I mean even upgrading the Common Mastercraft tool from 0% to 8-10% would still only give Mastercraft II base chance of 28-30%; that's still less than half that of Mastercraft III-V at 60%.
I've stated several times I think it would be good to encouraged a few more to get into Mastercraft. Even if we do see a few more earning Mastercraft II eventually; I doubt many will fully progress onto Mastercraft III-V.
As for your other comment. Yes I do think it's a 'little' (I didn't say a lot) absurd when a single of the newest Mastercraft item were sold for as much as Legendary Mounts that cost 5-7.5m diamonds. I mean using the AD:ZEN exchange that's $100.00-150.00 in Diamonds for a single items. When I was speaking to him I was simply making a point that that identified Mastercraft Gear being sold for a lot more reasonable prices than we see on PC. Sure I understand the whole Supply / Demand debate - I mean there clearly is the Demand or Interest in the Items but just like 95% don't get into Mastercraft, perhaps 90% also won't pay those prices, but I admit that's irrelevant as long as their adequate buyers at that price it will continue.
And No I'm not looking for Knox thank you. I'm not, nor will never be one of those ELITE Dragons.
Now if you feel inclined to kick those less fortunate/blessed than you. Well then perhaps your Character is Chaotic Neutral / Evil. Still maybe you'll surprise me? But if you just simply disagree I can fully accept that - even if I disagree with you. Now as for your argument suggesting perhaps the other (common) tools are bugged; the ones that provide 8% as they should instead provide 0%. The only problem with that argument is it's flawed, and I say that with respect, because a Tool that doesn't provide quality or improvement isn't aiding anything! If fertilizer didn't improves the strength and quality of a plant they why fertilize? The same is true with other tools be it a hammer to drive a nail - if you tried to push it in with your hand and made 0% progress - the tool (your hand) really isn't helping aid you in driving the nail.
Definition of tool: 1 a : a handheld device that *aids* in accomplishing a task.
My PURE interest in this REQUEST is solely on the basis of improving Game Play, which I mean I thought this was supposed to also be a game? I think it be more fun, for more people, if they had a more reasonable opportunity, to slowly advance into Mastercraft - even though it take them a lot longer to advance to Mastercraft II. I mean my god it's already been out now for coming up on 2.5+ years. I mean even if they upgraded Mastercraft II to 28-30% base chance for the final task; you'd still likely see very few advance most professions to Mastercraft III let alone IV. I mean we're lucky *if* even 5% of the player base today has even completed Mastercraft V in one let alone 8 unique professions.
So what are you worried about if they extended Mastercraft II from 20% up to 28-30%; I mean it's still be 2x worse than Mastercraft III-V. My goodness... >:)
"20%, 20%" etc. Again. You're wrong, it's not 20% it's 35%. Players with at least one MW5 prof unlocked? Count about 0.1% of people, maybe 0.2% not more.
And again "I still do believe they should make the (common) tools provide the standard (common) 8% quality if not 10%. " This is what YOU think, because you still think these items have the same purpose. They don't. White MW2 is set to have 0% because it's the heart of the quest. It's not a simple tool like the white assets for standard prof.
I can understand that people want mastercraft world to be easier to enter to. But there are surely better proposals than this, like, having other ways to get guild marks? Those are the real bottleneck if you want to farm the MW and not buying your way into it.
@strathkin I don't do Mastercrafting and even I don't think it should be made any easier. It's supposed to be hard. There are supposed to be very few people who do it. That's why part of the label reads "master". It means this is specialized. Making it easier is like saying that anyone who passed high school Physics should be a ballistics expert or that anyone who can fly a Cessna should be a combat fighter pilot. Just because our characters can level a profession to 25 by going out into the woods and rustling up some ore and wood (or, illogically, some scraps of fabric) doesn't mean they should find it only slightly more difficult to be able to craft really rare and powerful things.
"20%, 20%" etc. Again. You're wrong, it's not 20% it's 35%. Players with at least one MW5 prof unlocked? Count about 0.1% of people, maybe 0.2% not more.
And again "I still do believe they should make the (common) tools provide the standard (common) 8% quality if not 10%. " This is what YOU think, because you still think these items have the same purpose. They don't. White MW2 is set to have 0% because it's the heart of the quest. It's not a simple tool like the white assets for standard prof.
I can understand that people want mastercraft world to be easier to enter to. But there are surely better proposals than this, like, having other ways to get guild marks? Those are the real bottleneck if you want to farm the MW and not buying your way into it.
Yet it is clearly identified as a tool/asset used in the profession.
▪ Doming Hammer (0%) tool/asset: used in *advanced* crafting, a two sided hammer... ...meant for sinking metal plates. ▪ A Worn Hammer (8%) tool/asset: used in *common* crafting... ...used in platesmithing, mailsmithiing, weaponsmithing.
So why a tool that aid's nothing? The fact they describe it as a more advanced form of common tool so why isn't it given 10% unlike the common 8%? A perfectly FAIR and valid question to ask Cryptic regardless if you disagree or agree that the chance should be improved.
Definition of tool: 1 a : a handheld device that *aids* in accomplishing a task -- : or something useful | not useless.
With Mastercraft Asset (Common) that provide a 0% (not worthy of the label tool/asset by definition) - using 3 other Mithral tools for the Mastercraft II final crafting Task you have a 20% chance; with Gond yes it is extended to 35%.
I however think your idea to increase GUILD mark potential is perhaps a good idea; and welcome if they added more ways to earn guild marks; but there quite a few method's people can make use today. From various tasks around like Heroic Encounter's, Maurader's, Storming the Castle, Dragon Flight not to mention various guild discount events, or bonus guild mark events.
Most crafters have mastered stockpiling donations *only* donating during the 2x Guild Mark event. Still while micky1p00 pointed out, the Temporary Merchant made Resource upgrading 100% chance; it has also shifted the burden onto simply needing 2-5x more guild marks, beyond what just the maps require. Still I'd be OK if they dropped more common vouchers more frequently from Stronghold Enemies; or expanded more Uncommon Vouchers for various Guild Daily Projects in higher quantities. I think it even be nice if they slightly expanded the Blue Voucher especially if all 4 Dragons defeated--especially when you don't get a 1 or 2 Strongbox's from the Event.
As for your 2nd point - I'm not disagreeing. I said we'd be 'lucky' if we'd even had 5% of playerbase having completed but *one* Profession at Mastercraft V. Though I think you admitted it's likely closer to 0.1% or maybe 0.2% perhaps for a full set of professions at Mastercraft V, so I'm perfectly willing to accept that - or somewhere in between.
I mean even if they increased the 20% out to 28-30% for Mastercraft I (Common) Tool, few are going to progress much beyond that, even if completing all other Mastercraft III-V task is at 60%--or 75% with a Mythic Gond. While I admit Mastercraft II isn't all horrible at 20% is still an extreme failure condition. Mastercraft has also turned the Player into what previously our Master Craftmen primarily use to do; farm resources, upgrade resources, while we could FOCUS on playing various content. Now we're become what our professionals used to do in the background and have to spend a significant amount of time doing it to keep Mastercraft viable to keep progressing.
It's why still 95% aren't interested in Mastercraft & why only perhaps 0.1% - 0.2% or certainly <1% club has all 8 professions fully at Mastercraft V. It's still too crazy for >95% to even consider.
Post edited by strathkin on
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Yea at least on CONSOLE (PS4/XBOX) Crafters are charging for gear a lot more in line with what more traditional professions on PC used to charge. Yet recently on PC it's gotten utterly absurd - to the point now even Cryptic has been offering Specialized Knox Companion Packs once a week to offer a very UNIQUE and EXTREMELY RARE prize for the few Elite Dragon's swimming in Diamonds.
Now it's surely a great PRIZE but few can afford the high costs; but the vast majority bidding are all Mastercraft V professionals on PC. I mean the first one sold for 97m Diamonds if you had to buy those Diamonds on the AD:ZEN exchange that be almost $1,997.00 equivalent of ZEN. I think if they at least made it a tiny bit easier for a few to at least get started into Mastercraft we'd eventually seen 'a few' more but likely not a lot more. But we do need to at least help a few more get started on the path to Mastercraft so there are at least a few more crafter's at least of the lower level items if not the higher tiers.
There is a missing "why" here. Why it should be made easier? All mastercrafters stated at the same start point as you do, with no mastercraft unlocked. Back in the days, it was much much harder to unlock, chains and chains of failure at 35%. So now mods after you are saved most of those issues and it's much cheaper to unlock, why it should be made even easier?
You can put the AD and unlock it, or you can decide it's not worth the profit later and not unlock it. If you want it but don't have the AD, this is life, I don't think asking for a change is the right way, ask some friends to chip in, to help you unlock, and pay them back later. While I do not do MW now, when I've unlocked MW1, and it cost millions upon millions, friends helped me with materials, and in return I've made them the gear later when Iv'e unlocked.
Or it's because you want the knox companion too? And If I tell you that the person who won it, is not a MW, but a dungeon runner? Who farms dungeons, and events like many others do? What then?
You can unlock the "lower level items" practicly for free now, using the NPCs so what exactly do you want?
If it's just because one white tool gives one precent and another another, then lets just accept that as WAI because NW devs didn't want to create a seperate items and system just to get the percents right where thy wanted them, so those tools were created. This is the reality of things. If it bothers you that much, consider the other tools bugged, and that they should be 0 too. Problem solved.
Now I realized I'd likely face the wrath of a few who clearly don't want things to be made any easier; even though Mastercraft is *still* a very crazy proposition >95% of the player base today.
What is the cost for the unlock of MW1 and 2, you having a business education must have checked it before starting, so what is the cost?
Yet I've wondered why those who disagree often resort to misdirection, or try to confuse a clear and simple argument. I'd accept if you said no I don't want to see it easier for others; even though Mastercraft II has been around now for almost 2.5+ years.
The only one misdirecting and derailing is you. Don't try me with passive aggressive, or ad-hominem, or other common great ideas of the internet, I've been around. Save your commentary about posters to yourself, and keep on the subject.
Perhaps you don't care that it might provide a little more for others to slowly start working towards - even if it takes them considerably longer to have all Professions levelled to just Mastercraft II.
Fallacy. MW1 and MW2 cost of unlock is almost negligible now if done right via NPCs. Either you do not know how to do so correctly or you are trying to stick again and again to fallacies to forward your agenda.
I mean even upgrading the Common Mastercraft tool from 0% to 8-10% would still only give Mastercraft II base chance of 28-30%; that's still less than half that of Mastercraft III-V at 60%.
Except that most tasks except one final unlock are 100% chance via NPC. So again, why this should be made easier? if it was reduced from 5 chains at 35% to one single task?
I've stated several times I think it would be good to encouraged a few more to get into Mastercraft. Even if we do see a few more earning Mastercraft II eventually; I doubt many will fully progress onto Mastercraft III-V.
On what you base any of that? And what benefit it gives to anyone involved? You should know that right now the entry cost for MW is already low, assuming it's lowered even more and more people enter the market, the profit margin from raw materials to the MW1 result will be negligible (as it is almost such right now).
So you want to add more people to something most already do not find profitable, to make it even less profitable and on the way, somewhat ruin it for the people without unlocks and gond that only do farm maps, because now they will need to compete with people who are bent on doing MW because they unlocked one stage and will farm maps themselves because otherwise no profit.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
As for your other comment. Yes I do think it's a 'little' absurd when a single of the newest Mastercraft item were sold for as much as Legendary Mounts that cost 5-7.5m diamonds. I mean using the AD:ZEN exchange that's $100.00-150.00 in Diamonds for a single items. I was simply making a clear point that person who replied above who plays on CONSOLE identified Mastercraft Gear being sold for a lot more reasonable prices than we see on PC.
Sure I understand the whole Supply / Demand debate - I mean there clearly is the Demand or Interest in the Items but just like 95% don't get into Mastercraft - 95% also won't pay those prices either.
Fallacy again, I can claim that to farm 6 million AD, by doing RQ, I will need about 150 hours, with an average hourly rate for software engineer at $30 per hour this means 4.5k USD, so each item, if AD to hours to my work rate, to dollars, it is 4.5k USD.
Or what other scary figure you want to display to prove some agenda? You are saying that you understand supply and demand, but then what is the argument here? Clearly someone has the AD and buying it, if you don't like those expansive pieces there are alternatives, 'vote with your wallet', decrease demand, and either the prices will fall, or it wont be worth it to make. Most if us do not wear a single MW piece, and some at most some rings, those go for 500k each. Compared of doing weeks and weeks of Fane for a +1, it's quite cheap.
So would you like to bring up any other false numbers like not related Knox companion, or perhaps an yearly income of a third world country, or the costs of internet in south Africa as somehow related argument ?
And No I'm not looking for Knox thank you. I'm not, nor will never be one of those ELITE Dragons.
Then why you brought it up? BTW everyone start the game equally with 0 AD. What you do with your time after that is your choice. And again, lets keep the descriptions and animals to ourselves, it's not a zoo here.
Now if you feel inclined to kick those less fortunate/blessed than you. Well perhaps your Character is Chaotic Neutral / Evil. Still maybe you'll surprise me?
Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones is a logical fallacy characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence. ... Instead of facts, persuasive language is used to develop the foundation of an appeal to emotion-based argument.
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."
Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the
There is nothing about fortune, kicking, or whatever, you again try to derail the conversation.
But if you just simply disagree I can fully accept that - even if I disagree with you. Now as for your argument suggesting perhaps the other (common) tools are bugged; the ones that provide 8% as they should instead provide 0%. The only problem with that argument is it's flawed, and I say that with respect, because a Tool that doesn't provide quality or improvement isn't aiding anything! If fertilizer didn't improves the strength and quality of a plant they why fertilize? The same is true with other tools be it a hammer to drive a nail - if you tried to push it in with your hand and made 0% progress - the tool (your hand) really isn't helping aid you in driving the nail.
Definition of tool: 1 a : a handheld device that *aids* in accomplishing a task.
Read again what I wrote. Think about game development constrains. Add the fact that it's a software and not an actual tool, world, etc.. And try to arrive to the conclusion that everything you wrote is just not applicable. If tomorrow WoTSC decide that the sun is green and the grass is blue, so it will be. And if the devs take common ways to utilize existing code to get a result they need, then your hammer will add 0 chance.
My PURE interest in this REQUEST is solely on the basis of improving Game Play, which I mean I thought this was supposed to also be a game? I think it be more fun, for more people, if they had a more reasonable opportunity, to slowly advance into Mastercraft - even though it take them a lot longer to advance to Mastercraft II. I mean my god it's already been out now for coming up on 2.5+ years. I mean even if they upgraded Mastercraft II to 28-30% base chance for the final task; you'd still likely see very few advance most professions to Mastercraft III let alone IV. I mean we're lucky *if* even 5% of the player base today has even completed Mastercraft V in one let alone 8 unique professions.
So what are you worried about if they extended Mastercraft II from 20% up to 28-30%; I mean it's still be 2x worse than Mastercraft III-V. My goodness... >:)
I don't care about MW, nor the 8%. I don't do MW. What I care about is people add incorrect fallacies to the arguments to gain some agenda. I also care about suggestions with a simply wrong premise, this suggestion arrived mid argument, when the first attempt failed. And so on. This speaking for "the small guy" is nothing but smoke and mirrors. The only thing this does is preventing from people to benefit from their investment when they unlock, and as such making MW another useless profession like the rest of them.
Your suggestion does not benefit the game play, but is detrimental to it, as you are slowly trying to devalue MW, one suggestion at a time.
While I was originally going to respond to each item individually I've decided against that; I'm not the one throwing labels left & right, nor am I being passive aggressive. I've accepted points others made on numerous occasions in this thread; if they are at least fair or provide reasonable basis. Now realize accepting a point doesn't necessarily mean I agree with it entirely - but in most cases I have. I've even agreed with some points you've made; even where I've said sure Temporary Merchants make Resources easier. Still realize that's only shifted the burden onto earning 2-4x more GUILD marks. It's why someone earlier asked about a way to make more Guild marks; and while I agreed it be NICE to see some improvements made in that area. Yet I'll skip repeating, what I've said above.
Your claiming everything I say is fallacy, misrepresented, lies, gross exaggerations or misdirecting or derailing? You're the one who started throwing all the labels or names around. Yet I've always provided clear reasons for any positions I've held.
Example: "The only one misdirecting and derailing is you. Don't try me with passive aggressive, or ad-hominem, or other common great ideas of the internet, I've been around. Save your commentary about posters to yourself, and keep on the subject."
So here you claim I'm misdirecting and derailing in response to where I said, "Yet I've wondered why those who disagree often resort to misdirection, or try to confuse a clear and simple argument. I'd accept if you said no I don't want to see it easier for others; even though Mastercraft II has been around now for almost 2.5+ years."
Yet realize that is in fact the ONLY statement I've made that might not be perceived in the best light - and even it was NOT directed at you - It was simply denoting general observations I've noticed many times in the forums over the years. As I could clearly see on numerous occasions you didn't seem to be in favor improving Mastercraft (Common) tool to at least 8% like all others. You've also said it's cheap & easy to do, yet claim you've not done it either? That's rather interesting position for someone who seems to know so much about it yet hasn't even advanced it. Still the part which I did direct at you is where I said, "I'm perfectly FINE if you don't want it made easier, cause you think it's already easy enough, that I can fully respect even if I disagree for the reason's stated above.
My positions take no BIAS - as I try to see things from both the players & developers perspective - trying to find a compromise somewhere in the middle. You may disagree - yet when I said we'd be lucky if 5% had even progressed one profession to Mastercraft V; someone else corrected me by adding we'd be lucky if 0.1 - 0.2% likely had all 8 at Mastercraft V. I accepted that justification or recognize it's likely the <1% club that has all 8 at Mastercraft V. That's if true is a FAIR reason for suggesting we do in FACT need the Mastercraft (Common) tool upgraded to 8% if not 10%; for being a *advanced* common tool as described in the TOOLTIP.
But you claiming I'm misdirect & derailing is not what I'm doing. When you then add "Don't try me with passive aggressive, or ad-hominem, or other common great ideas of the internet, I've been around. Save your commentary about posters to yourself, and keep on the subject." which is a way to tell me to SHUT UP. Still I'm not mad or upset with you - but I still clearly disagree with you. Others may denote at least a little more aggressive tone in your remarks; I'm just honestly confused since you claim to not even do it - then why are you so passionate that it not be improved?
Still it's well known Common tools at professional merchant have always given 8%; it been that way since Neverwinter first launched. So why is it a misdirecting, gross exaggeration, for me to ask why aren't Mastercraft (Common) tools described for *advanced* crafting tasks given 8-10%? I mean they should not get 0% it doesn't even fit the definition of a tool or asset designed to aid/assist in a task.
FACT: Extending Mastercraft II from 20% out to 28-30% chance; still be at least half that of Mastercraft III-V at 60%.
If only 5% of the players even consider advancing Mastercraft; or as someone pointed, only 0.1% or 0.2% possibly have all 8 professions at Mastercraft V; then do you THINK the <1% club in Neverwinter is going to see DEVS spending significant time developing something less than 1% even use? Or will they instead choose to put time into expanding the HUNTS, or rewards in new Dungeons which the large majority of players enjoy doing.
With Mastercraft we have in fact BECOME what used to be DONE exclusively by our Professionals. ▪ Spending significant amounts of time gathering resources from countless Maps. ▪ Spending significant amounts of time earning guild marks; to then just upgrade resources. ╘ then waiting till the right Temporary Merchant spawns in Alliance to upgrade them. ╘ if we instead choose to use our professionals the chance of successful upgrade greatly reduced. ▪ Then we spend more time to rebuild vouchers, shards, influence waiting to donate till the next 2x GUILD marks. ╘ Just to start the process all over.
That is in fact why 95% don't even want to advance Mastercraft that much; though I admit some farm MAPS with guild marks they earn to just sell them. Mostly since there is very little else to do with Guild marks these as most Gear in the Stronghold is significantly outdated; at least without Mastercraft V. Sure I don't think >25% of players should have Mastercraft fully completed in all professions, but as someone denoted it was likely less than 0.2% of players today.
Comments
All mastercrafters stated at the same start point as you do, with no mastercraft unlocked. Back in the days, it was much much harder to unlock, chains and chains of failure at 35%.
So now mods after you are saved most of those issues and it's much cheaper to unlock, why it should be made even easier?
You can put the AD and unlock it, or you can decide it's not worth the profit later and not unlock it.
If you want it but don't have the AD, this is life, I don't think asking for a change is the right way, ask some friends to chip in, to help you unlock, and pay them back later. While I do not do MW now, when I've unlocked MW1, and it cost millions upon millions, friends helped me with materials, and in return I've made them the gear later when Iv'e unlocked.
Or it's because you want the knox companion too? And If I tell you that the person who won it, is not a MW, but a dungeon runner?
Who farms dungeons, and events like many others do? What then?
You can unlock the "lower level items" practicly for free now, using the NPCs so what exactly do you want?
If it's just because one white tool gives one precent and another another, then lets just accept that as WAI because NW devs didn't want to create a seperate items and system just to get the percents right where thy wanted them, so those tools were created. This is the reality of things.
If it bothers you that much, consider the other tools bugged, and that they should be 0 too. Problem solved.
Yet I've wondered why those who disagree often resort to misdirection, or try to confuse a clear and simple argument. I'd accept if you said no I don't want to see it easier for others; even though Mastercraft II has been around now for almost 2.5+ years. Perhaps you don't care that it might provide a little more for others to slowly start working towards - even if it takes them considerably longer to have all Professions levelled to just Mastercraft II. I mean even upgrading the Common Mastercraft tool from 0% to 8-10% would still only give Mastercraft II base chance of 28-30%; that's still less than half that of Mastercraft III-V at 60%.
I've stated several times I think it would be good to encouraged a few more to get into Mastercraft. Even if we do see a few more earning Mastercraft II eventually; I doubt many will fully progress onto Mastercraft III-V.
As for your other comment. Yes I do think it's a 'little' (I didn't say a lot) absurd when a single of the newest Mastercraft item were sold for as much as Legendary Mounts that cost 5-7.5m diamonds. I mean using the AD:ZEN exchange that's $100.00-150.00 in Diamonds for a single items. When I was speaking to him I was simply making a point that that identified Mastercraft Gear being sold for a lot more reasonable prices than we see on PC. Sure I understand the whole Supply / Demand debate - I mean there clearly is the Demand or Interest in the Items but just like 95% don't get into Mastercraft, perhaps 90% also won't pay those prices, but I admit that's irrelevant as long as their adequate buyers at that price it will continue.
And No I'm not looking for Knox thank you. I'm not, nor will never be one of those ELITE Dragons.
Now if you feel inclined to kick those less fortunate/blessed than you. Well then perhaps your Character is Chaotic Neutral / Evil. Still maybe you'll surprise me? But if you just simply disagree I can fully accept that - even if I disagree with you. Now as for your argument suggesting perhaps the other (common) tools are bugged; the ones that provide 8% as they should instead provide 0%. The only problem with that argument is it's flawed, and I say that with respect, because a Tool that doesn't provide quality or improvement isn't aiding anything! If fertilizer didn't improves the strength and quality of a plant they why fertilize? The same is true with other tools be it a hammer to drive a nail - if you tried to push it in with your hand and made 0% progress - the tool (your hand) really isn't helping aid you in driving the nail.
Definition of tool: 1 a : a handheld device that *aids* in accomplishing a task.
My PURE interest in this REQUEST is solely on the basis of improving Game Play, which I mean I thought this was supposed to also be a game? I think it be more fun, for more people, if they had a more reasonable opportunity, to slowly advance into Mastercraft - even though it take them a lot longer to advance to Mastercraft II. I mean my god it's already been out now for coming up on 2.5+ years. I mean even if they upgraded Mastercraft II to 28-30% base chance for the final task; you'd still likely see very few advance most professions to Mastercraft III let alone IV. I mean we're lucky *if* even 5% of the player base today has even completed Mastercraft V in one let alone 8 unique professions.
So what are you worried about if they extended Mastercraft II from 20% up to 28-30%; I mean it's still be 2x worse than Mastercraft III-V. My goodness... >:)
Players with at least one MW5 prof unlocked? Count about 0.1% of people, maybe 0.2% not more.
And again "I still do believe they should make the (common) tools provide the standard (common) 8% quality if not 10%. "
This is what YOU think, because you still think these items have the same purpose. They don't. White MW2 is set to have 0% because it's the heart of the quest. It's not a simple tool like the white assets for standard prof.
I can understand that people want mastercraft world to be easier to enter to. But there are surely better proposals than this, like, having other ways to get guild marks? Those are the real bottleneck if you want to farm the MW and not buying your way into it.
▪ Doming Hammer (0%) tool/asset: used in *advanced* crafting, a two sided hammer... ...meant for sinking metal plates.
▪ A Worn Hammer (8%) tool/asset: used in *common* crafting... ...used in platesmithing, mailsmithiing, weaponsmithing.
So why a tool that aid's nothing? The fact they describe it as a more advanced form of common tool so why isn't it given 10% unlike the common 8%? A perfectly FAIR and valid question to ask Cryptic regardless if you disagree or agree that the chance should be improved.
Definition of tool: 1 a : a handheld device that *aids* in accomplishing a task -- : or something useful | not useless.
With Mastercraft Asset (Common) that provide a 0% (not worthy of the label tool/asset by definition) - using 3 other Mithral tools for the Mastercraft II final crafting Task you have a 20% chance; with Gond yes it is extended to 35%.
I however think your idea to increase GUILD mark potential is perhaps a good idea; and welcome if they added more ways to earn guild marks; but there quite a few method's people can make use today. From various tasks around like Heroic Encounter's, Maurader's, Storming the Castle, Dragon Flight not to mention various guild discount events, or bonus guild mark events.
Most crafters have mastered stockpiling donations *only* donating during the 2x Guild Mark event. Still while micky1p00 pointed out, the Temporary Merchant made Resource upgrading 100% chance; it has also shifted the burden onto simply needing 2-5x more guild marks, beyond what just the maps require. Still I'd be OK if they dropped more common vouchers more frequently from Stronghold Enemies; or expanded more Uncommon Vouchers for various Guild Daily Projects in higher quantities. I think it even be nice if they slightly expanded the Blue Voucher especially if all 4 Dragons defeated--especially when you don't get a 1 or 2 Strongbox's from the Event.
As for your 2nd point - I'm not disagreeing. I said we'd be 'lucky' if we'd even had 5% of playerbase having completed but *one* Profession at Mastercraft V. Though I think you admitted it's likely closer to 0.1% or maybe 0.2% perhaps for a full set of professions at Mastercraft V, so I'm perfectly willing to accept that - or somewhere in between.
I mean even if they increased the 20% out to 28-30% for Mastercraft I (Common) Tool, few are going to progress much beyond that, even if completing all other Mastercraft III-V task is at 60%--or 75% with a Mythic Gond. While I admit Mastercraft II isn't all horrible at 20% is still an extreme failure condition. Mastercraft has also turned the Player into what previously our Master Craftmen primarily use to do; farm resources, upgrade resources, while we could FOCUS on playing various content. Now we're become what our professionals used to do in the background and have to spend a significant amount of time doing it to keep Mastercraft viable to keep progressing.
It's why still 95% aren't interested in Mastercraft & why only perhaps 0.1% - 0.2% or certainly <1% club has all 8 professions fully at Mastercraft V. It's still too crazy for >95% to even consider.
Because it looks relatively very cheap to me. The only one misdirecting and derailing is you. Don't try me with passive aggressive, or ad-hominem, or other common great ideas of the internet, I've been around. Save your commentary about posters to yourself, and keep on the subject. Fallacy. MW1 and MW2 cost of unlock is almost negligible now if done right via NPCs. Either you do not know how to do so correctly or you are trying to stick again and again to fallacies to forward your agenda. Except that most tasks except one final unlock are 100% chance via NPC. So again, why this should be made easier? if it was reduced from 5 chains at 35% to one single task? On what you base any of that? And what benefit it gives to anyone involved? You should know that right now the entry cost for MW is already low, assuming it's lowered even more and more people enter the market, the profit margin from raw materials to the MW1 result will be negligible (as it is almost such right now).
So you want to add more people to something most already do not find profitable, to make it even less profitable and on the way, somewhat ruin it for the people without unlocks and gond that only do farm maps, because now they will need to compete with people who are bent on doing MW because they unlocked one stage and will farm maps themselves because otherwise no profit.
Fallacy again, I can claim that to farm 6 million AD, by doing RQ, I will need about 150 hours, with an average hourly rate for software engineer at $30 per hour this means 4.5k USD, so each item, if AD to hours to my work rate, to dollars, it is 4.5k USD.
Or what other scary figure you want to display to prove some agenda? You are saying that you understand supply and demand, but then what is the argument here? Clearly someone has the AD and buying it, if you don't like those expansive pieces there are alternatives, 'vote with your wallet', decrease demand, and either the prices will fall, or it wont be worth it to make.
Most if us do not wear a single MW piece, and some at most some rings, those go for 500k each. Compared of doing weeks and weeks of Fane for a +1, it's quite cheap.
So would you like to bring up any other false numbers like not related Knox companion, or perhaps an yearly income of a third world country, or the costs of internet in south Africa as somehow related argument ?
Then why you brought it up?
BTW everyone start the game equally with 0 AD. What you do with your time after that is your choice. And again, lets keep the descriptions and animals to ourselves, it's not a zoo here. Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones is a logical fallacy characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence. ... Instead of facts, persuasive language is used to develop the foundation of an appeal to emotion-based argument.
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man."
Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the
There is nothing about fortune, kicking, or whatever, you again try to derail the conversation. Read again what I wrote. Think about game development constrains. Add the fact that it's a software and not an actual tool, world, etc.. And try to arrive to the conclusion that everything you wrote is just not applicable. If tomorrow WoTSC decide that the sun is green and the grass is blue, so it will be. And if the devs take common ways to utilize existing code to get a result they need, then your hammer will add 0 chance. I don't care about MW, nor the 8%.
I don't do MW.
What I care about is people add incorrect fallacies to the arguments to gain some agenda.
I also care about suggestions with a simply wrong premise, this suggestion arrived mid argument, when the first attempt failed. And so on. This speaking for "the small guy" is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
The only thing this does is preventing from people to benefit from their investment when they unlock, and as such making MW another useless profession like the rest of them.
Your suggestion does not benefit the game play, but is detrimental to it, as you are slowly trying to devalue MW, one suggestion at a time.
Your claiming everything I say is fallacy, misrepresented, lies, gross exaggerations or misdirecting or derailing? You're the one who started throwing all the labels or names around. Yet I've always provided clear reasons for any positions I've held.
Example:
"The only one misdirecting and derailing is you. Don't try me with passive aggressive, or ad-hominem, or other common great ideas of the internet, I've been around. Save your commentary about posters to yourself, and keep on the subject."
So here you claim I'm misdirecting and derailing in response to where I said, "Yet I've wondered why those who disagree often resort to misdirection, or try to confuse a clear and simple argument. I'd accept if you said no I don't want to see it easier for others; even though Mastercraft II has been around now for almost 2.5+ years."
Yet realize that is in fact the ONLY statement I've made that might not be perceived in the best light - and even it was NOT directed at you - It was simply denoting general observations I've noticed many times in the forums over the years. As I could clearly see on numerous occasions you didn't seem to be in favor improving Mastercraft (Common) tool to at least 8% like all others. You've also said it's cheap & easy to do, yet claim you've not done it either? That's rather interesting position for someone who seems to know so much about it yet hasn't even advanced it. Still the part which I did direct at you is where I said, "I'm perfectly FINE if you don't want it made easier, cause you think it's already easy enough, that I can fully respect even if I disagree for the reason's stated above.
My positions take no BIAS - as I try to see things from both the players & developers perspective - trying to find a compromise somewhere in the middle. You may disagree - yet when I said we'd be lucky if 5% had even progressed one profession to Mastercraft V; someone else corrected me by adding we'd be lucky if 0.1 - 0.2% likely had all 8 at Mastercraft V. I accepted that justification or recognize it's likely the <1% club that has all 8 at Mastercraft V. That's if true is a FAIR reason for suggesting we do in FACT need the Mastercraft (Common) tool upgraded to 8% if not 10%; for being a *advanced* common tool as described in the TOOLTIP.
But you claiming I'm misdirect & derailing is not what I'm doing. When you then add "Don't try me with passive aggressive, or ad-hominem, or other common great ideas of the internet, I've been around. Save your commentary about posters to yourself, and keep on the subject." which is a way to tell me to SHUT UP. Still I'm not mad or upset with you - but I still clearly disagree with you. Others may denote at least a little more aggressive tone in your remarks; I'm just honestly confused since you claim to not even do it - then why are you so passionate that it not be improved?
Still it's well known Common tools at professional merchant have always given 8%; it been that way since Neverwinter first launched. So why is it a misdirecting, gross exaggeration, for me to ask why aren't Mastercraft (Common) tools described for *advanced* crafting tasks given 8-10%? I mean they should not get 0% it doesn't even fit the definition of a tool or asset designed to aid/assist in a task.
FACT: Extending Mastercraft II from 20% out to 28-30% chance; still be at least half that of Mastercraft III-V at 60%.
If only 5% of the players even consider advancing Mastercraft; or as someone pointed, only 0.1% or 0.2% possibly have all 8 professions at Mastercraft V; then do you THINK the <1% club in Neverwinter is going to see DEVS spending significant time developing something less than 1% even use? Or will they instead choose to put time into expanding the HUNTS, or rewards in new Dungeons which the large majority of players enjoy doing.
With Mastercraft we have in fact BECOME what used to be DONE exclusively by our Professionals.
▪ Spending significant amounts of time gathering resources from countless Maps.
▪ Spending significant amounts of time earning guild marks; to then just upgrade resources.
╘ then waiting till the right Temporary Merchant spawns in Alliance to upgrade them.
╘ if we instead choose to use our professionals the chance of successful upgrade greatly reduced.
▪ Then we spend more time to rebuild vouchers, shards, influence waiting to donate till the next 2x GUILD marks.
╘ Just to start the process all over.
That is in fact why 95% don't even want to advance Mastercraft that much; though I admit some farm MAPS with guild marks they earn to just sell them. Mostly since there is very little else to do with Guild marks these as most Gear in the Stronghold is significantly outdated; at least without Mastercraft V. Sure I don't think >25% of players should have Mastercraft fully completed in all professions, but as someone denoted it was likely less than 0.2% of players today.