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Players AFK farming during skirmishes & dungeons are untouchable thanks to vote kick restrictions

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  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User

    Someone in RQ is always going to be carried, whether its a 17k doing all the work while the low level does nothing or if people go afk.

    From what I've seen, being low level is actually a lot of work. Topping the scoreboard doesn't always mean that player put in more effort. Quite often it's just the opposite, and the ones that put in the most work take the middle spots.

    I mean, it's silly that I even have to point this out, but the higher the level, the easier the content.

    Low level players are not always leeches and afkers - and leeches and afkers are not always low level players. I don't know about epics, but everywhere else I've run into players of that ilk, more often than not, they tend to be a higher level than the rest of the group.
  • mahburgmahburg Member Posts: 598 Arc User
    I would not expect any change to this, frankly only one way to avoid it is to not Random Q, I don't just Guild groups only where possible and go for salvage instead of the AD drops.

    Everyone told the Devs this was a bad idea, however not listening to the player base brings issues like this into the game.
    Cheers
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 853 Arc User


    From what I've seen, being low level is actually a lot of work. Topping the scoreboard doesn't always mean that player put in more effort.

    Low level players are not always leeches and afkers - and leeches and afkers are not always low level players.

    True

    From personal experiences, it happens on both ends.

    In a nutshell
    - LLP's abusing RQ's because:
    - - it's easy to RQ with a trash character and force a carry for rewards.
    - HLP's abusing RQ's because:
    - - it's easy to RQ and force the effort onto others for rewards.
    - - they see a lower ilvl character(s), assume they are abusers and refuse to run the content so that the assumed abuser(s) essentially won't get rewards.

    and both help reinforce the negative cycle not to mention abusive behavior not only isn't being efficiently/effectively monitored it is reinforced at the expense of legitimate players which facilitates abusive behavior even more. If players that RQ were there to actually try and complete the content each and every time things would be quite better though as long as abusers are shielded in various ways and allowed to funnel in and ruin the experience for the legitimate players these type of issues will continue as well as development that punishes players because they play for longer amounts of time.
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    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
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  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    if I can't kick and someone afking I'd afk too and recommend everyone else does as well. I'm quite quite stubborn and willing to take a sacrifice myself to make someone else pay for being a hamster...
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited July 2018


    - LLP's abusing RQ's because:
    - - it's easy to RQ with a trash character and force a carry for rewards.

    I wish there was a way to tell, but most of the time I suspect that trash actually belongs to some HLP with a whole train of leech mules. Legitimate LLPs may get in over their heads, but they almost always put in a valiant effort. But whenever a low level character's just squatting in a skirmish out of harm's way, it's a safe bet that it's alt trash.

    I'm sure you're right about it happening on both ends. And I'm sure it depends on a player's perspective. I'm on the lower level end of the spectrum and see a lot of anti-social behavior from higherKs. Whereas someone who's running epics all the time likely sees more abuse from lowerKs - though, like I said, that character's more likely to be the alt trash of some highK than a legit player.
  • hercules125hercules125 Member Posts: 427 Arc User
    I would be nice to run a random, but with an "alliance only" setting. If someone does something like that, my alliance would very quickly take care of matters.
  • mikeakahulk#6646 mikeakahulk Member Posts: 1 New User
    Remove IQ from random skirmish needs to be done i am tired of going for gold with trash players. I always ask bronze and leave before match starts i finish to bronze after that i will sit outside when they make me wait through that skirmish. Make IQ a group que only would solve alot of headaches for the most part
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    Childish move? Or maybe calculated move to discourage forced gold runs. The easy and popular thing to do is just go along and get it over quickly. It takes courage to AFK and resolve to stay the course. Nothing like a long gold run and/or a wipe to make the gold runners reconsider their tactics. Without the brave AFKers, forced gold runs would be the norm.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    It's one thing for the game to throw me into any other dungeons with a bunch of newbies/lowbies and I have to carry them to the end. Still, everyone benefits, including the carrier. In IG, the run can end in bronze. I find it offensive that people can make me stay longer to carry them.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    no such thing as a forced gold run as you put it. majority rules. if you join random que you are agreeing to those terms. it isn't my way or the highway. there is no one persons vote matters more than EVERYONE elses..

  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User

    no such thing as a forced gold run as you put it. majority rules. if you join random que you are agreeing to those terms. it isn't my way or the highway. there is no one persons vote matters more than EVERYONE elses..

    The majority can force everyone to stay, but they can't compel everyone to participate. Terms? What terms? I didn't know I signed something to get into the queue. Sure there is a social contract to participate. But there is also a social contract not to force others into something they don't want to do.

    Any other instances, I would leave and take penalty if I didn't like what I saw, and that will be the end of it. Since there is no reinforcement in IG, it won't affect the outcome whether I leave or AFK and wait for my RQ reward. If the gold runners don't have qualms forcing me to stay for my reward, then I have no qualms AFKing in their face.
  • valaniillevalaniille Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    since there are 5 players in IG, so yes, one mans vote matters ;) and others are foced to leave/stay. That's democracy for you... Also, I think there is no vote kick in IG at all (?) so they force us twice.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    They may not be able to admit it or even recognize it (further signs of immaturity), but IG AFKers are the poster children for what childish behavior looks like.

    Every single time I see someone request, "Bronze pls," the group accommodates them - myself included even though I'm always hoping for a Gold run. I always vote last in case of a tie so that I can end the vote in favor of the ones that want to leave early. It's called being considerate. But that concept's so far beyond the comprehension of these AFKers, it'd be easier to discuss stellar parallax with an earthworm.

    I can't remember the last time a player asked for "Gold pls," and the rest of group complied - most certainly not the AFK crowd. It's all a one way street to them. They expect the group to bend to their will, but it would never, ever occur to them to do what the group wants. As far as they're concerned, life's a single player game, and everyone else is just an npc.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,545 Community Moderator

    They may not be able to admit it or even recognize it (further signs of immaturity), but IG AFKers are the poster children for what childish behavior looks like.

    Every single time I see someone request, "Bronze pls," the group accommodates them - myself included even though I'm always hoping for a Gold run. I always vote last in case of a tie so that I can end the vote in favor of the ones that want to leave early. It's called being considerate. But that concept's so far beyond the comprehension of these AFKers, it'd be easier to discuss stellar parallax with an earthworm.

    I can't remember the last time a player asked for "Gold pls," and the rest of group complied - most certainly not the AFK crowd. It's all a one way street to them. They expect the group to bend to their will, but it would never, ever occur to them to do what the group wants. As far as they're concerned, life's a single player game, and everyone else is just an npc.

    My last IG run on Xbox, I said in chat "bronze please" because I just wanted to get my AD and be done with it, but another guy is like "no gold, but I promise it will be quick". So we did gold and he was right, him and his friend did some massive DPS, so I wasn't too upset about going gold.
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  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    edited July 2018


    Every single time I see someone request, "Bronze pls," the group accommodates them - myself included even though I'm always hoping for a Gold run.

    Hell no. So many times I see people begging for bronze only for the group to continue to do gold. I remember one run another DODC asked for bronze and the group went gold. I PMed him to say that he had asked for bronze and they disrespected him. Continuing to participate only emboldens them to do it again to someone else. If he AFK also, the party would wipe. That convinced him to AFK with me. And I taught him to remove his buffs so if the game puts him back in the arena, the party won't benefit from them. Sure enough, the three remaining players wiped at the boss stage. I had a good laugh with the other guy before we left.

    Eventually, when I see someone request for bronze, I would add that I will stop after the first round (I leave it to them to interpret what I mean). That worked most of the time.

    I always vote last in case of a tie so that I can end the vote in favor of the ones that want to leave early. It's called being considerate.

    You sir are a good man, or women. If there were more like you, there would be less AFKers. More often than not, when it is a two-two tie, the last nimrod with the lowest dps vote stay.

  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    kreatyve said:


    My last IG run on Xbox, I said in chat "bronze please" because I just wanted to get my AD and be done with it, but another guy is like "no gold, but I promise it will be quick". So we did gold and he was right, him and his friend did some massive DPS, so I wasn't too upset about going gold.

    I'm not totally against doing gold. If I see other good dps, I would continue even after voting leave. One time four lowbies voted stay. One guy even said, "that was so fast, of course I will stay". Well, without my CW insta-freezing and smashing everything for them, the group wiped in under 20 seconds. Tough lesson to learn that IG can be hard some times.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,545 Community Moderator

    kreatyve said:


    My last IG run on Xbox, I said in chat "bronze please" because I just wanted to get my AD and be done with it, but another guy is like "no gold, but I promise it will be quick". So we did gold and he was right, him and his friend did some massive DPS, so I wasn't too upset about going gold.

    I'm not totally against doing gold. If I see other good dps, I would continue even after voting leave. One time four lowbies voted stay. One guy even said, "that was so fast, of course I will stay". Well, without my CW insta-freezing and smashing everything for them, the group wiped in under 20 seconds. Tough lesson to learn that IG can be hard some times.
    Yeah, I usually check the scoreboard before voting. If I'm doing WAY more damage than everyone else, it's time to vote leave.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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  • I AFK in IG all the time. Most of my main-ish toons are upper 17k. I heavily farmed IG when it first came out to get my companion gear. I've ran it it thousands of time.. sickening I know

    When I end up in RQ IG on my OP or D.C. everyone wants to go for gold. I'm not having any part of it, the gear is outdated and most of the other players are low level 7-9k. When I play, nobody is more important than me. It's a game, don't waste your time for others that you don't know.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    I AFK in IG all the time. Most of my main-ish toons are upper 17k. I heavily farmed IG when it first came out to get my companion gear. I've ran it it thousands of time.. sickening I know

    When I end up in RQ IG on my OP or D.C. everyone wants to go for gold. I'm not having any part of it, the gear is outdated and most of the other players are low level 7-9k. When I play, nobody is more important than me. It's a game, don't waste your time for others that you don't know.

    you sir speak like a stinky pirate
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 853 Arc User

    But whenever a low level character's just squatting in a skirmish out of harm's way, it's a safe bet that it's alt trash.

    I'm on the lower level end of the spectrum and see a lot of anti-social behavior from higherKs

    ^ Truth ^

    If a LLP is putting in effort it's essentially all good, they are trying which is what counts granted a LLP can only do so much. As you mentioned if the LLP isn't actively participating considering them to be alt trash isn't unwarranted.

    It's sad when players (especially HLP's) RQ and don't actively participate. A few moments ago a HLP entered the RQ, teleported to Protector's Enclave, about 4 minutes later popped in, left back out and came back in to teleport themselves to the boss gate... The current system allows such exploitation, players can circumvent participation, put it onto the backs of others yet still get the rewards without penalty, it's ridiculous.

    --+-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+--

    When Mod 14 hits consoles (in it's current state) it's going to be a nightmare for a number of players. Encountering negative players and leaving will result in an account wide leaver penalty which will force legitimate players to suffer through content and or rely on vote options...

    There's no section on the forums where players can post such things for only the developers/forum staff to see, discuss and hopefully work towards rectifying. Can't really rely on messages because staff essentially uses the excuse of receiving so many messages as the reason they don't respond even though "first in, first out" is a fairly simply way to handle private messages... Months on end going by without a response is not only irresponsible but also shows that players are not valued...

    --+-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+--

    RQ'ing and not participating can be considered griefing/against the rules, for example getting IG and AFK'ing. However you feel about IG consciously RQ'ing and not liking the results does not warrant negative behavior. If you want to ensure you get a bronze/gold run RQ with at least 3 like-minded players to ensure your vote, simple action to get a particular result, not having two others to queue with at the/a time does not warrant negative behavior either.

    Again the way the game's various systems currently go negative players are shielded and have much more power than they should while legitimate players are continually having things stacked against them and still expected to financially support the game. Maybe if legitimate players encountered negative ones a lot less/at all and were treated in a more fair manner as far as having their messages/complaints responded to a larger portion of the population would be more willing to spend...
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    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

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    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User


    It's sad when players (especially HLP's) RQ and don't actively participate. A few moments ago a HLP entered the RQ, teleported to Protector's Enclave, about 4 minutes later popped in, left back out and came back in to teleport themselves to the boss gate... The current system allows such exploitation, players can circumvent participation, put it onto the backs of others yet still get the rewards without penalty, it's ridiculous.

    Other than IG, the only other place I've seen AFK is DL and MotH. But for me, those runs finish in around 3 minutes with or without the AFK. It's not worth getting worked up over it. No one AFKs without good reason in any other run because there is time to kick.

    IG is different. When there is a choice between a short and long run, you can't blame people for getting pissed off that other choose the long run for them, especially without asking. Buy a girl dinner first...
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    I also find it funny how when RQ was first rolled out, all these people were up in arms screaming about being forced to do content the game picks for them. Yet relatively few people yell about other players forcing choices on them.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 853 Arc User

    No one AFKs without good reason in any other run because there is time to kick.

    Unfortunately that isn't true for the most part. Personally witness characters AFK'ing often enough in LDRQ, the previously mentioned RQ was GWD (non-epic). It was mentioned as "for the most part" because the "good reason" is essentially getting easy rewards LoL. AFK for about half the run and then making your way to the final gate is STILL AFK farming because participation was consciously circumvented.

    When there is a choice between a short and long run, you can't blame people for getting pissed off that other choose the long run for them, especially without asking.

    Yet relatively few people yell about other players forcing choices on them.

    Players do not have to ask others to quit or stay after bronze and even if they do ask, an answer isn't guaranteed. Actually those people can be blamed because they could have RQ'ed with two other "bronzers" or "golders" and there would be no contest 3 v 2. Essentially the only way to be forced to stay or leave in IG is if you queue with less than 3 like-minded people total. If you RQ skirmishes with less than 3 people you are essentially forfeiting control via votes and relying on others to follow or not follow suit.

    Personally would either ensure vote outcome (RQ with 3 total) or simply not complain much at the vote results (kick and or IG).
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    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User


    Unfortunately that isn't true for the most part. Personally witness characters AFK'ing often enough in LDRQ, the previously mentioned RQ was GWD (non-epic). It was mentioned as "for the most part" because the "good reason" is essentially getting easy rewards LoL. AFK for about half the run and then making your way to the final gate is STILL AFK farming because participation was consciously circumvented.

    I never do leveling dungeons. Maybe that's why I never seen these AFKs. But for trivial contents, I don't care much. If I'm blocked at a gate and the AFK is not on his way or said something, then it's kicking time!

    Essentially the only way to be forced to stay or leave in IG is if you queue with less than 3 like-minded people total. If you RQ skirmishes with less than 3 people you are essentially forfeiting control via votes and relying on others to follow or not follow suit.

    Personally would either ensure vote outcome (RQ with 3 total) or simply not complain much at the vote results (kick and or IG).

    If you have guildies or friends online and they have nothing else to do, sure why not. But for solo players like me, it would be absurd if I went to PE and said, "LF2M for RQ skirmish to ensure bronze in case I get IG". I'd rather take my chances. After all, somebody has to do the dirty work to remind folks that there may be a better and kinder way to do gold.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 853 Arc User

    I never do leveling dungeons. Maybe that's why I never seen these AFKs. But for trivial contents, I don't care much. If I'm blocked at a gate and the AFK is not on his way or said something, then it's kicking time!

    It sounds good though when the vote kick fails because the other player doesn't vote or you can't initiate a vote kick because the system bugs out even after the time to be able to initiate a vote passes then what?

    But for solo players like me, it would be absurd if I went to PE and said, "LF2M for RQ skirmish to ensure bronze in case I get IG". I'd rather take my chances.

    Solo players in an MMO, with/without a guild, running group content?... Mmmm (joke)

    If you went to PE looking for like minded individuals chances are you will find them eventually.

    After all, somebody has to do the dirty work to remind folks that there may be a better and kinder way to do gold.

    The same goes for those wanting bronze...

    --+-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+--

    Anyone that RQ's is taking their chances and not getting the results they want does not excuse negative behavior they may perform to try and justify it. Asking for bronze and the vote to stay passing does not mean a person can rightfully AFK in protest period because they would then be griefing the other players.

    When you accept the RQ you are agreeing to actively participate in whatever content that pops and if you don't want to participate there's a leaver penalty you can take.

    AFK'ing to force others to vote kick you can also be considered griefing. Recently got PoM and a character warmed themselves at the campfire until they were vote kicked and replaced. About five minutes later and once inside two players AFK'd at the door, the others proceeded with running the content, soon enough the other two players camped at the door with the first two and personally continued with the remaining phases of the content...
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    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    I loathe PoM.

    It's frustrating 'cause I actually still need those Underdark skirmishes for a bunch of my characters, but the probability of running into deadbeat afks is so high, it's just not worth it to me. I can only tolerate so much aggravation in my free time.

    RQs have progressively gotten worse and worse. I see a huge difference in the environment just in the last four or five months. I haven't touched one for over a month now, but the negativity that breeds in pvp and in RQ spills over into the rest of the game too - to the point where I've barely played the game at all for a few weeks 'cause I'm tired of dealing with self-centered fools and wasting time looking for less populated instances just to avoid them.

    Anymore it really does feel like Cryptic's gone out of their way to protect the antisocial element to the detriment of everyone else. You know, I don't mind being thrown to bears - or the wolves or the lions, but I really resent being thrown to a bunch of bloodsucking ticks and leeches.

    Yeah, I like the game, and I'm invested in it to a certain extent, but I'm not just going to sit here and subject myself to the whims of a pack of puerile jackasses. If Cryptic doesn't offer me some method of ensuring my own enjoyment within the game, I'm just going to walk away. My hands may be tied, but my feet aren't.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User

    It sounds good though when the vote kick fails because the other player doesn't vote or you can't initiate a vote kick because the system bugs out even after the time to be able to initiate a vote passes then what?

    Then I tell the group to kick the AFK or I am leaving. This works well if you are clearly the main carrier. If they call your bluff, you can disconnect and screw them even further.


    Solo players in an MMO, with/without a guild, running group content?... Mmmm (joke)

    Most runs I see people from different guilds. Apparently lots of people queue solo even if they are in a guild.


    Anyone that RQ's is taking their chances and not getting the results they want does not excuse negative behavior they may perform to try and justify it. Asking for bronze and the vote to stay passing does not mean a person can rightfully AFK in protest period because they would then be griefing the other players.

    I would say forcing other players into gold is the negative behavior. Since there is no reinforcements in IG, it makes no difference whether I leave or AFK. The group will be down one player for the rest of the run. If I leave, no one thinks further of it. No one complains about gold leavers, just gold AFKers. The only "negative" behavior I see is gold runners seething at AFKers.

    Now that IG is in leveling queue and more runs being done without an HDPS, I'd say the gold runner behavior is even more negative. Many newbie/lowbie are busy grinding other stuff and could care less about outdated companion gear. The gold runners are inflicting unwanted costs on these newbies by making them do 30+ minute gold runs when they could have done 5 minute MotH/DL or even 10 min end-to-end leveling dungeon sprint.
  • victimizeracingvictimizeracing Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Maybe the devs should do reinforcement plan only for IG. Example, group A votes 3 to 2 to stay, group B votes 3 to 2 to leave. Let the ones who want to leave do so and rematch the ones that wish to stay. Solves the IG problem anyway.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    And what problem should the devs solve? As I argued in my last post, the only problem here is thin-skinned gold runners getting upset at the sight of AFKers. You can't expect the devs to fix a problem like that. The solution is in the hands of these gold runners, don't aggress if you can't handle an AFKer.

    Gold runs are totally doable undermanned, even soloable. No point having the devs waste time making changes on such an old run.

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