[All Platforms] MoF Renegade CW

iimrmonkeyii

Moderator's please do not move this post to the CW section, as its primary purpose is to inform players who don't play a CW what it has to offer.

I wanted to create this post because I ran across a GWF today that clearly didn't understand the CW's feats/passives, or the way that debuffs work in Neverwinter. I am not going to put his or her name here because I'm not trying to shame anyone. However, this GWF did say "TY all except you Apex" (my CW's name) at the end of some multi runs. Afterwards, I got a PM that he or she had "never seen a worse MoF". Appearently, "you aren't even a Renegade" makes me trash. That was pretty lame... This person is now on ignore so it doesn't bother me at all. Hopefully, they will see this post and learn something new.

Basically, this GWF didn't think that I was playing my MoF correctly because I was doing roughly half his or her damage at the end of some multi CoDGs. I was in the support party with no Exaltation (for the beginning of one run I was accidentally receiving exaltation), Bane, Terrifying Insight, Pillar of Power, Into the Frey, fire wheel buffs, or any of the other "party-wide" buffs that were there. However, after the first run (and he or she called me out) I started to pay attention. I noticed a few things. I saw this person standing clearly too far away from the ACDCs to get Blessings of Battle, fighting outside of the Pillar of Power, and I would assume that they weren't watching their buff bar and the other players to take advantage of the small "buff window" that is created in these types of runs (I could be wrong about that last one obviously).

I think a few "end-game" CWs can relate to this post, and this can help the community understand what the CW has to offer with different loadouts.

I was using a standard MoF Oppressor loadout with Swath of Destruction and Chilling Presence slotted. I was using Ray of Enfeeblement on tab and adding smolder with Scorching Burst. Sometimes I slot Combustive Action (an additional debuff), replacing Chilling Presence if I am playing with REALLY good HDPS.

If you already know enough about the CW, you will know that Renegade offers ZERO debuffs. The debuffs come from the MoF Paragon, using the passive(s) that it offers. I don't think this person understood that.

***I am NOT here to say that Renegade is useless or underwhelming. Please don't misinterpret that. Renegade is absolutely BIS for some groups.***

Here is what a typical Renegade tree spec offers other players.
1.) 5% Critical Chance Buff [for 10 seconds] (up all the time given that the Renegade has decent Critical Chance)
2.) An additional procc for 60% of weapon damage (NOT modified by debuffs/buffs, quite a small procc of damage, only affected by power)
3.) Combat Advantage [for 12 seconds] (This will be up virtually 100% of the time given that the Renegade has decent Critical Chance)
------This consistent Combat Advantage source is the most valuable resource of the whole tree (if you don't already have a consistent source). If you do already have a consistent source of Combat Advantage (a GF, SW, HR, or GWF) then this feat probably will not do anything for the group, unless someone is not playing their class correctly.
4.) A heal over time (completely random and the CW has no control over when this proccs)
5.) 30% addition Armor Penetration and Critical Chance (completely random and the CW has no control over when this proccs)
6.) 30% Damage Buff and 10% Lifesteal (completely random and the CW has no control over when this proccs)
------Numbers 4-6 last for 10 seconds and sometimes multi procc (not x2 same buff afaik)

As you can see, the Renegade Tree can be EXCELLENT for buffing! The problem is that many groups already have Combat Advantage, and many HDPS players already have their Armor Penetration and Critical Chance capped. When these conditions are met a Renegade only offers:
An additional procc for 60% of weapon damage (NOT affected by debuffs/buffs relatively small damage procc, only affected by power)
A heal over time (completely random and the CW has no control over when this proccs)
30% damage buff and 10% Lifesteal (completely random and the CW has no control over when this proccs)

Out of the above offerings of a Renegade CW, end-game parties are most interested in the 30% damage buff that comes from Chaotic Fury. I talked earlier in this post about a "buff window". For those that don't know, this is a term many people use to describe the overlap of a number of significant buffs. As many queue groups are quite uncoordinated, this window sometimes only lasts a few seconds, if that. This has been my experience and I think that many people might agree with me.

This concept of a buff window, combined with the composition of an "end-game" 10 person queue group is why I am here to argue that, in many cases, a MoF Oppressor is equally (or more) valuable than a MoF Renegade.

Again, keep in mind all these conditions are met.
1.) The group already easily has 100% up-time on Combat Advantage.
2.) The queue group is mostly support with only 1-3 HDPS players.
3.) None of the HDPS need additional Critical Chance or Armor Penetration.
4.) A regular buff window will be created for only a few seconds.
5.) The fight (or phase) will only last around 15 seconds, or less.
6.) The CW has no stat issues and can offer some additional DPS
7.) The group has no issues surviving, and therefore will not benefit from the Chaotic Growth heal over time, or the extra lifesteal from Chaotic Fury.

When these above conditions are met, what is the difference between a MoF Renegade and an MoF Oppressor?

Oppressor
1.) Excellent personal DPS
2.) An additional damage procc for 33.66% weapon damage [CC-immune enemies] (can be very large as it is modified by debuffs, buffs, and can inherit a crit modifier)
3.) An additional damage procc for 300% weapon damage [against trash that isn't CC-immune] (independent and is only modified by some debuffs/buffs)
4.) 5% Debuff (100% uptime)
5.) 10% Debuff [only on trash mobs] (not 100% up-time)
6.) 10% damage buff (can be triggered by the CW whenever he/she wants, and easily kept at basically 100% up-time, after the first application)
------This 10% damage buff also stacks with multiple Oppressors.

Renegade
1.) Decent personal DPS
2.) An additional procc for 60% of weapon damage (NOT modified by debuffs/buffs, quite a small procc of damage, only affected by power)
3.) 30% damage buff (completely random and the CW has no control over when this proccs)

Conclusion:
Renegade can be great if Chaotic Fury (30% buff) is up during the small buff window discussed above. However, Oppressor's Controlled Momentum (10% buff) is DEFINITELY going to be up during the buff window. Oppressor also offers far more personal DPS, stronger damage proccs, and 2 additional debuffs (only one at bosses).

The point is that Renegade and Oppressor are quite close when it comes to support. The significant difference is that Oppressor's support is more reliable, and Renegade's is more random. Remember, we are only talking about end-game parties with those above conditions met.

I hope this helps some people understand the CW a little better!

All the information was learned by reading Sharpedge's Mechanics Guide and Michela's Debuff Spreadsheet.
I thought I would leave credits even though this is just a forum post.

Happy Farming!

vorphied

For me, Renegade is what you do if there is no one marking for auto CA from all positions.

Otherwise Oppressor for its reliable, 100% uptime party buff and Shatter Strike capstone.

micky1p00

I thought it is going to be one of 'those' posts with long and whiny, evil devs, evil community, and what not, buff other class, nerf my class, err the other way....

But it's, IMO, actually a good, objective, and informative post. Thank you.

If you can, I think it will be informative to add the actual power / feat names it can make things to 'click together' for those that have CW alts, or read other things and want this post as reference.

iimrmonkeyii

Yeah @vorphied, I agree. That is exactly how I do things on my CW too!

Great idea @micky1p00.

My eyes are uncontrollably closing atm, but I will hop back in here soon and throw in the names after I sleep for a bit. I will try to post it down below and make it a little more clear with less explanation. I think that the post is "full" of characters. I wanted to write more but I kept getting that "too many characters" warning thing.


Thanks for the suggestion and compliment. It means a lot coming from someone who has done a lot for the community! You and the other math experts make our lives much better in Neverwinter.

vordayn

I've come across the same discrimination, however you have explained rather well the differences between MoF Renegade vs Oppressor, of which the latter can be more useful in certain party compositions. I hope more people take note of this.

iimrmonkeyii

Okay so here is a new breakdown of (including the names of different feats) what Oppressor and Renegade have to offer groups.

iimrmonkeyii

Oppressor:
1.) Oppressor offers excellent personal DPS.
2.) Bitter Cold (Targets take 1/2/3/4/5% more damage for 6 seconds after being affected by Chill. This effect does not stack.)
--------Note: This is a debuff, and will be up 100% of the time. This is true because almost everything Control Wizards do adds Chill. Additionally, all Oppressors are going to take a feat called "Icy Veins" which adds chill to everything within 15', every time an encounter power is used.
3.) Frigid Winds (Foes who have been Frozen take 2/4/6/8/10% more Damage from all sources.)
---------Note: This is also a debuff but will not work against enemies that are CC-immune (bosses, for example).
4.) Controlled Momentum (After using a Control Encounter power nearby allies deal 1/2/3/4/5% more damage for 6 seconds. This effect does not stack.)
---------Note: This is a buff, not a debuff. This is maintained at basically 100% up-time because Control Wizards use at least one of these powers <<b class="Bold">Chill Strike, Icy Terrain, Icy Rays, Steal Time> (which procc the feat) virtually all the time, and the cooldowns are usually less than 6 seconds (definitely true with Hastening Light and other sources of cool-down reductions). Other powers which procc the damage buff (not usually used) include <<b class="Bold">Ice Storm, Entangling Force, Repel, Shield Pulse, and Shard of Endless Avalanche>. The tooltip on this feat is actually incorrect. It has been verified by multiple sources (using ACT) that this is actually 10%, not 5%, AND that this buff stacks with multiple Oppressor CWs. For example, 20 Oppressor CWs would offer a 200% damage buff to the group at basically 100% up-time.
5.) Shatter Strike
--------Note: This feat was changed at the release of Module 13. As the tooltip is very misleading on this feat I will instead include a direct quote from Sharpedge's Module 13 Mechanics Guide. I had no part in testing, or constructing, this description. All credit goes to Sharpedge@thefabricant.
Inappropriate link removed by moderator.
"This power is weird. Against trash mobs, it has a chance to trigger a proc for 300% of weapon damage, which is an independent proc and has its own unique list of buffs/debuffs that modify it. Against bosses, it is an Inherited proc for 33.66% of weapon damage, that is modified by the buffs/debuffs that modify the skill it procs off. Either way, it triggers on all powers, not just Control powers and on every tick of everything except Entangling Force, Ray of Enfeeblement and Imprisonment. In the case of both the CC and non CC immune version, if the skill that procs it crits, it will inherit the crit modifier."

iimrmonkeyii

Renegade:
1.) Renegade offers decent DPS.
2.) Uncertain Allegiance (When you critically strike you grant allies 1/2/3/4/5% Critical Chance for 10 seconds.)
--------Note: This is a flat 5% Critical Chance buff (increases your %chance not your Critical Strike stat, and will be up 100% of the time if the CW has decent Critical Chance)
3.) Abyss of Chaos (When you strike a foe with an Encounter Power you mark them with Abyss. When an ally strikes that foe they consume Abyss to deal 12/24/36/48/60% of your weapon damage.)
--------Note: This damage procc is not modified by and debuffs or buffs, therefore it is quite a small damage procc. (is modified by power).
4.) Nightmare Wizardy (When you crit a foe you have a 4/8/12/16/20% chance for you and your allies to gain Combat Advantage against it for 12 seconds.)
--------Note: This consistent Combat Advantage source is the most valuable resource of the whole Renegade tree (if you don't already have a consistent source). If you do already have a consistent source of Combat Advantage (a GF, SW, HR, or GWF) then this feat probably will not do anything for the group, unless someone is not playing their class correctly.
5.) Chaos Magic (Dealing Damage to targets has a chance to apply Chaos Magic to yourself and allies within 50'. When you are affected by Chaos Magic you cannot be affected by a new Chaos Magic. You will be affected by Chaotic Growth, Chaotic Nexus, or Chaotic Fury.)
--------Note: These can multi procc. However, you will never receive 2 of the same buffs together. The Control Wizard has no control over when one of these procc, or which Chaos Magic proccs.
A.) Chaotic Growth (Heal yourself for 250% weapon damage every .5 seconds for 10 seconds.)
B.) Chaotic Nexus (You gain 30% additional Armor Penetration and Critical Chance for 10 seconds.)
C.) Chaotic Fury (You gain 30% additional Damage and 10% additional Life Steal for 10 seconds.)

iimrmonkeyii

For the sake of an end-game group. Most groups will have these conditions met (before adding a Renegade or Oppressor).
1.) The group already easily has 100% up-time on Combat Advantage.
2.) The queue group is mostly support with only 1-3 HDPS players.
3.) None of the HDPS need additional Critical Chance or Armor Penetration.
4.) A regular buff window will be created for only a few seconds.
5.) The fight (or phase) will only last around 15 seconds, or less.
6.) The CW has no stat issues and can offer some additional DPS
7.) The group has no issues surviving, and therefore will not benefit from the Chaotic Growth heal over time, or the extra Lifesteal from Chaotic Fury.

This means that numbers 1,3,4(A,B,and the Lifesteal from C) will basically be wasted feat points (for Renegade). This leaves us with the following being offered by an Oppressor, or Renegade, in end-game compositions.

Oppressor (end-game composition):
---------Note: For the sake of saving you the time reading, this is exactly the same as above! Nothing is wasted as an Oppressor for end-game compositions! I re-posted this here for people to see a comparison (after end-game conditions are applied).
1.) Excellent personal DPS.
2.) Bitter Cold (Targets take 1/2/3/4/5% more damage for 6 seconds after being affected by Chill. This effect does not stack.)
--------Note: This is a debuff, and will be up 100% of the time. This is true because almost everything Control Wizards do adds Chill. Additionally, all Oppressors are going to take a feat called "Icy Veins" which adds chill to everything within 15', every time an encounter power is used.
3.) Frigid Winds (Foes who have been Frozen take 2/4/6/8/10% more Damage from all sources.)
---------Note: This is also a debuff but will not work against enemies that are CC-immune (bosses, for example).
4.) Controlled Momentum (After using a Control Encounter power nearby allies deal 1/2/3/4/5% more damage for 6 seconds. This effect does not stack.)
---------Note: This is a buff, not a debuff. This is maintained at basically 100% up-time because Control Wizards use at least one of these powers <<b class="Bold">Chill Strike, Icy Terrain, Icy Rays, Steal Time> (which procc the feat) virtually all the time, and the cooldowns are usually less than 6 seconds (definitely true with Hastening Light and other sources of cool-down reductions). Other powers which procc the damage buff (not usually used) include <<b class="Bold">Ice Storm, Entangling Force, Repel, Shield Pulse, and Shard of Endless Avalanche>. The tooltip on this feat is actually incorrect. It has been verified by multiple sources (using ACT) that this is actually 10%, not 5%, AND that this buff stacks with multiple Oppressor CWs. For example, 20 Oppressor CWs would offer a 200% damage buff to the group at basically 100% up-time.
5.) Shatter Strike
--------Note: This feat was changed at the release of Module 13. As the tooltip is very misleading on this feat I will instead include a direct quote from Sharpedge's Module 13 Mechanics Guide. I had no part in testing, or constructing, this description. All credit goes to Sharpedge@thefabricant.
Inappropriate link removed by moderator.
"This power is weird. Against trash mobs, it has a chance to trigger a proc for 300% of weapon damage, which is an independent proc and has its own unique list of buffs/debuffs that modify it. Against bosses, it is an Inherited proc for 33.66% of weapon damage, that is modified by the buffs/debuffs that modify the skill it procs off. Either way, it triggers on all powers, not just Control powers and on every tick of everything except Entangling Force, Ray of Enfeeblement and Imprisonment. In the case of both the CC and non CC immune version, if the skill that procs it crits, it will inherit the crit modifier."

Renegade (end-game composition)
1.) Decent DPS
2.) Abyss of Chaos (When you strike a foe with an Encounter Power you mark them with Abyss. When an ally strikes that foe they consume Abyss to deal 12/24/36/48/60% of your weapon damage.)
--------Note: This damage procc is not modified by and debuffs or buffs, therefore it is quite a small damage procc. (is modified by power).
3.) Chaotic Fury (you gain 30% additional damage)
--------Note: This can multi procc with the other Chaos Magic. However, you won't receive 2 of the same buffs together. The Control Wizard has no control over when one of these procc, or which Chaos Magic proccs.

mebengalsfan

In the CW present state the Oppressor path is far superior to the Thaum or Renegade path. If you do run either Thaum or Renegade you are more than likely hindering your group and yourself as a CW. The issue is not how CWs are now being played, the issue in game is due to a lack of knowledge by other players, just like there is a lack of knowledge around how to play any class well.

Even with tools provided by other, some players simply don't want to invest the time and energy into updating their character, they feel cheated or mislead and as a result will complain about the changes instead of embracing them. These players include not only that play the class but those we run with, such as the GWF in the initial post.

I been in groups where I was kicked for not running at a Renegade and for beating a GWF in damage prior to Orcus. Some players only care about one thing, where they rank on the paingiver chart and others that are smart will want players to run the best build to get the fastest time in content.

If the player is seeking the best CW build; it is Oppressor. Run SS Oppressor up until the boss fight for clearing adds; the CW is still providing the 10% damage buff. On bosses, go MoF Oppressor to get additional debuffing. If it is CoDG, simply run MoF Oppressor unless another player is running that already than it will be SS Oppressor.

mebengalsfan

Soon all CWs will be Renegades, yippie.

aimeesellers

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

In the CW present state the Oppressor path is far superior to the Thaum or Renegade path. If you do run either Thaum or Renegade you are more than likely hindering your group and yourself as a CW. The issue is not how CWs are now being played, the issue in game is due to a lack of knowledge by other players, just like there is a lack of knowledge around how to play any class well.

Even with tools provided by other, some players simply don't want to invest the time and energy into updating their character, they feel cheated or mislead and as a result will complain about the changes instead of embracing them. These players include not only that play the class but those we run with, such as the GWF in the initial post.

I been in groups where I was kicked for not running at a Renegade and for beating a GWF in damage prior to Orcus. Some players only care about one thing, where they rank on the paingiver chart and others that are smart will want players to run the best build to get the fastest time in content.

If the player is seeking the best CW build; it is Oppressor. Run SS Oppressor up until the boss fight for clearing adds; the CW is still providing the 10% damage buff. On bosses, go MoF Oppressor to get additional debuffing. If it is CoDG, simply run MoF Oppressor unless another player is running that already than it will be SS Oppressor.

iimrmonkeyii

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

Soon all CWs will be Renegades, yippie.

Yeah, with the changes coming in Mod 15, it seems Renegade is really the only way to go now. The only time Oppressor might be viable is in some weird "niche" full support build. Thaumaturge is dead.

c1k4ml3kc3

Hi, buddy!

What have you been up to

I see you had some issues playing as a CW over the time and have met a typical Paingiver mentality. Those are one distinct type of people I dislike and, no wonder, they fall under GWF category since forever. This isn't news, tbh. This is an old issue which I believe will never end.

Yes, it does happen more often than that and it is one of the things I actively fight against whenever I say "Anti-Meta" and "Relative-BiS".
Misconceptions about a class role can really grind people's nerves. And if you do not follow their lead, they threaten to leave the party or simply they stop playing saying "Ok, i'm afk".
Such people do not want to play anything except META gameplay, so they seek to micro-manage each meta aspect of the party to a fault disregarding everything else in the process.

Another good point about the topic is what happened to me. Here's the story. So I come back after 2 years of inactivity and find that CWs only play as MoF. I take SS and pick Chultan Teak Tamima from the store (is it called that? I forgot). Anyway, in 2 weeks I'm already having good gear and solid damage. In three weeks I'm already hitting as hard as the people I'm playing with.

Why?

Because I know the game and others do not care to actually learn the game's mechanics. In most guild you'd find one to two people who are REALLY into it. In the whole alliance maybe 3-4, but not more than that. In my experience it doesn't happen. They care to play the way they've learnt since they do not have the time nor willpower to go, research, study, learn and manage each aspect of the mechanics separately. This is why they'd never be good CW's nor TRs unless they change their mindset. And this is why they will only see 2 important things for them

- Bigger Sword, STR and Damage
- More Health and Defense

That's all there is to that, pretty much every GWF I've met thinks that CW's or TR's are a stupid, squishy class. This is unavoidable!

I have 14-15K Lifesteal and can easily TANK a Donjon Hunt up to LvL3. I have 3xLS boon and some LS severity.
I outlive each and every GWF who puts everything in Defense. LS is a better trait to have when you do not have healing around you. Not that squishy once you understand the game and CW options, right?

And if you go to actually talk to many of them, they will delineate same behavior. Finding a good GWF person tends to be a hard job.

So if you do find, consider yourself lucky as they - more often than not - are a complete Paingiver mentality ones. So if your damage falls down below that (and they DO believe that Paingiver is damage, which is another story altogether) which they made, consider that they hate you probably.

Do you have any idea how many of them quit if I had more points on Paingiver than them? Pure ragequitters. Happened many times with HRs, too! Rarely with TRs. TRs just don't give a flying duck : But that is what happens when you have a class that usually dominate the DPS charts, and more so now with Prominence enchantments. More than ever. And in MOD15 MWIII weapons get a huge, massive boost in damage for GWFs. Wait and see that charade!

Your buddy waves to you. And wishes you solid gameplay.

iimrmonkeyii

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

Hi, buddy!

What have you been up to

I have been good. I am currently building a GF.

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

I see you had some issues playing as a CW over the time and have met a typical Paingiver mentality.

Actually I haven't. I am very happy with my CW. I'm not sure where you are getting that idea from. As for suggesting Renegade in Mod 15, it isn't about a paingiver chart. It is about playing what works best.

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

So I come back after 2 years of inactivity and find that CWs only play as MoF.

Good CWs don't play MoF for an entire run. I play SS plenty of times, and so do other people.

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

I take SS and pick Chultan Teak Tamima from the store (is it called that? I forgot). Anyway, in 2 weeks I'm already having good gear and solid damage. In three weeks I'm already hitting as hard as the people I'm playing with.

You must be playing with the real superstars.

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

I know the game and others do not care to actually learn the game's mechanics.

Then why are you using the Teak weapons? Anybody that "knows the game's mechanics" would prefer the Primal weapons.

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

That's all there is to that, pretty much every GWF I've met thinks that CW's or TR's are a stupid, squishy class. This is unavoidable!

Do you have something against GWFs? lol

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

I have 14-15K Lifesteal and can easily TANK a Donjon Hunt up to LvL3. I have 3xLS boon and some LS severity.

LS severity does basically nothing for you, unless you are attacking your enemies with napkins.

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

And if you go to actually talk to many of them, they will delineate same behavior. Finding a good GWF person tends to be a hard job.

So if you do find, consider yourself lucky as they - more often than not - are a complete Paingiver mentality ones. So if your damage falls down below that (and they DO believe that Paingiver is damage, which is another story altogether) which they made, consider that they hate you probably.

Do you have any idea how many of them quit if I had more points on Paingiver than them? Pure ragequitters. Happened many times with HRs, too! Rarely with TRs. TRs just don't give a flying duck : But that is what happens when you have a class that usually dominate the DPS charts, and more so now with Prominence enchantments. More than ever.

What kind of GWFs are you running with? Jesus, I love my GWF friends. I think you and I play with very different types of people.

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

And in MOD15 MWIII weapons get a huge, massive boost in damage for GWFs. Wait and see that charade!

The CW still seems to be in a pretty good spot for Mod 15. I definitely would have preferred to get more dungeons in Mod 15, rather than class reworks.

c1k4ml3kc3 said:

Your buddy waves to you. And wishes you solid gameplay.

You too, and cheers.

mebengalsfan

iimrmonkeyii#3625 said:

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

Soon all CWs will be Renegades, yippie.

Yeah, with the changes coming in Mod 15, it seems Renegade is really the only way to go now. The only time Oppressor might be viable is in some weird "niche" full support build. Thaumaturge is dead.

To fix the current mod 15 CW issues Uncontrolled Obliteration feat needs to replace Transcendent Master, where Uncontrolled Obliteration is under the Renegade feats should be replaced by Control Momentum and Transcendent Master should be moved to Oppressor where the base damage of Icy Ray is increased by 4% per a rank (20% at 5 ranks) and the cooldown of Icy Ray is reduced by .5 seconds (2.5 seconds at max rank) regardless of the target hit for these buffs.

This would make the Oppressor all about controlling using chill based powers. The Thaum path would be our true DPS path and Renegade would be the buff path and much better than its current state as it will be fairly easy to keep Control Momentum up and than still have a chance to proc Chaotic Fury.

With mod 15 though it looks like out of all of my loadouts only 2 will be used. Right now I use all but two of my loadouts.

SS Renegade for solo stuff
SS Opp AoE for adds
SS Opp Single Target - CoDG if there is a MoF in the group
SS Thaum content under T9

MoF Opp - CoDG
MoF Renegade - whenever someone wants me to go full buff build

I go from all of that variation to using just two loadouts in mod 15. Devs failed IMO with mod 15 as I have variety in how I play now and soon I won't. That is a big issue from my point of view as my variety of play becomes more restrictive, especially since I don't play PVP.