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SW Needs a Buff [Mod14-Relevent] [PC] - Into the HDPS category please.
ibz4ez
Member Posts: 117 Arc User
Recently, there has been a positive effort to revitalise the SW class for use as a buffer/debuffer support role in dungeons in MOD13.
But in all honestly, nobody in their right mind is going to take an end-game dungeon of players through Castle Ravenloft with a SW as main DPS, especially when the outstanding burst DPS of GF, or all round solid DPS of GWF, still exists.
So I'd like to propose somesmall changes to the Fury Feat line of SW Hellbringer paragon and some Powers in order to bring it up to standard with the rest of the DPS classes, especially seeing as the description of this class is "You want to deal damage."
Current Change list:
Firstly, unlike GFs and GWFs SW abilities still don't all crit. Therefore my first change would be to Creeping Death
- Enable this feat's DoT effect to crit.
Another issue with the DoT of this feat is, well, it's a bit slow. In competitive DPS dungeons a GWF or GF is going to be pushing the 100-300k damage instantly with at-wills whereas warlocks are having to wait a fantastic 1.5 odd seconds between ticks of the DoT.
- Accelerate the ticks of this DoT, I honestly couldn't tell you how much this should be accelerated by because Crit will change the numbers. But i'd start with 1.2¬0.8 seconds and see how that goes.
- (Personally if I were coding this specific feat I would have the DoT tick speed increased for every stack of creeping death.)
The power Killing Flames seems to be on a really crazy DPS multiplier as the target's health decreases, but is a pee shooter when the target is at 50% HP of more.
- Flatten out the curve of this power so it doesn't go completely overboard on damage when targets have very little HP and increase the damage it does to targets above 50% HP.
- At the moment it's doing between 700k¬1.5mil on my own buffs as the target approaches 1% HP. Then goes ahead and deals between 90k-150k any other time.
9 times out of 10 in Neverwinter these days you're facing enemies that are CC resistant.
This sort of puts Hadar's Grasp totally out of range for boss fights and actually most situations. So the proposed change is:
- If the target is CC immune the target takes the full damage of this power instantly, cooldown is reduced by [Rank 1/2/3/4 (1s/2s/3s/4s)]
- This effect should not work in PvP including the cooldown reduction
- Tooltip should now read: "You lift your foe into the air, dealing damage to them over time and stunning them. If your foe is CC resistant, deal this power's damage instantly and reduce the cooldown by 1s. (Does not affect CC resistant targets in PvP)".
This power's animation is also so damn CLUNCKY.
- Animation speed increased by a factor of 1.5x
*Edit 1
One of the things I see most commonly when browsing other suggested buffs for SW is that the class itself has relatively few self-buffs or at least none that can stack.
My suggestion to help with this would be yet another change to Creeping Death.
- For each stack you deal an additional 1% damage to the target.
Now on reading that myself it seems a little overpowered, especially vs bosses, but let's all be honest here and say that right now SW needs a little overpowered.
*Edit 2 18/09/2018
I've been reading through the discussion about some glitch causing HDPS 100mil hits in codg with the SW or something.
A couple issues with this argument as a reason to not buff the SW.
Firstly it's probably due to an interaction between lots of buffer classes, potentially 9 others doing buffs, and nothing to do with the SW themself.
Secondly it doesn't really effect the dungeon grind as a SW main DPS, which is currently not doable.
Also, for bonus cookies, does anybody know who is running the show for the SW changes come MOD15? I assume it would be Balanced but I could be wrong.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping these changes will help put SW near Tier 1 for HDPS.
If you have any other suggestions, or think some of these changes are a little overpowered, do let me know in the comments.
#MakingSWGreatAgain...Again
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But in all honestly, nobody in their right mind is going to take an end-game dungeon of players through Castle Ravenloft with a SW as main DPS, especially when the outstanding burst DPS of GF, or all round solid DPS of GWF, still exists.
So I'd like to propose some
Current Change list:
Firstly, unlike GFs and GWFs SW abilities still don't all crit. Therefore my first change would be to Creeping Death
- Enable this feat's DoT effect to crit.
Another issue with the DoT of this feat is, well, it's a bit slow. In competitive DPS dungeons a GWF or GF is going to be pushing the 100-300k damage instantly with at-wills whereas warlocks are having to wait a fantastic 1.5 odd seconds between ticks of the DoT.
- Accelerate the ticks of this DoT, I honestly couldn't tell you how much this should be accelerated by because Crit will change the numbers. But i'd start with 1.2¬0.8 seconds and see how that goes.
- (Personally if I were coding this specific feat I would have the DoT tick speed increased for every stack of creeping death.)
The power Killing Flames seems to be on a really crazy DPS multiplier as the target's health decreases, but is a pee shooter when the target is at 50% HP of more.
- Flatten out the curve of this power so it doesn't go completely overboard on damage when targets have very little HP and increase the damage it does to targets above 50% HP.
- At the moment it's doing between 700k¬1.5mil on my own buffs as the target approaches 1% HP. Then goes ahead and deals between 90k-150k any other time.
9 times out of 10 in Neverwinter these days you're facing enemies that are CC resistant.
This sort of puts Hadar's Grasp totally out of range for boss fights and actually most situations. So the proposed change is:
- If the target is CC immune the target takes the full damage of this power instantly, cooldown is reduced by [Rank 1/2/3/4 (1s/2s/3s/4s)]
- This effect should not work in PvP including the cooldown reduction
- Tooltip should now read: "You lift your foe into the air, dealing damage to them over time and stunning them. If your foe is CC resistant, deal this power's damage instantly and reduce the cooldown by 1s. (Does not affect CC resistant targets in PvP)".
This power's animation is also so damn CLUNCKY.
- Animation speed increased by a factor of 1.5x
*Edit 1
One of the things I see most commonly when browsing other suggested buffs for SW is that the class itself has relatively few self-buffs or at least none that can stack.
My suggestion to help with this would be yet another change to Creeping Death.
- For each stack you deal an additional 1% damage to the target.
Now on reading that myself it seems a little overpowered, especially vs bosses, but let's all be honest here and say that right now SW needs a little overpowered.
*Edit 2 18/09/2018
I've been reading through the discussion about some glitch causing HDPS 100mil hits in codg with the SW or something.
A couple issues with this argument as a reason to not buff the SW.
Firstly it's probably due to an interaction between lots of buffer classes, potentially 9 others doing buffs, and nothing to do with the SW themself.
Secondly it doesn't really effect the dungeon grind as a SW main DPS, which is currently not doable.
Also, for bonus cookies, does anybody know who is running the show for the SW changes come MOD15? I assume it would be Balanced but I could be wrong.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping these changes will help put SW near Tier 1 for HDPS.
If you have any other suggestions, or think some of these changes are a little overpowered, do let me know in the comments.
#MakingSWGreatAgain...Again
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post edited by ibz4ez#9773 on
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Comments
when you look at dps you should refere to soulbinder...the hellbringer should be more party focused with the ability to do dps to some extent
i might add the current content is not bad for a sw soulbinder to play the dps role with 4x support(yes im excluding the effectivenss bug because you dont need it to do sub 13min tong runs) but as you mentioned the new dungeon..buffing sws dps will help there alot..cause the hp those bosses have..god cancer for us
It all depends on your buffer-team in the end (GF/buffhunter-devo-2xDC).
I think the warlock is not in the right spot since long, concerning the striker role.
Atm every class, played by a skilled player, fills that role better somehow, CW is maybe on par I´d say.
Honestly I did not meat any Soulbinder in mod 14 (running my DC in about 200 codg´s) who did compareable dps than those other classes by running SB and skipping that effect.-bug in tong/codg.
Maybe due to the fact that near noone runs his warlock as a striker these days and the number of stuffed locks is pretty small in generell.
The thing with SW in that video is that it had the dps exploit + a top tier dps GF assisting with burning the boss + good buffers.
@ibz4ez#9773
Killing Flames is a joke indeed, min damage is nearly 3 times lower than max damage and the latter is only reached when the fight is almost nearing its end (enemy at 24.99% hp) and it's weak compared to those of other strikers because our damages scales worse (almost no self-buffs), we are the only class with one of our relevant encounter powers having such flat out insulting limitations @balanced#2849
As for your suggestions and even though Fury is the main dps spec, making Creeping Death a self-buff mechanic leaves Damnation and Temptation out of play there, our Class Features and feats need to be changed to actual buffs (not debuffs!) Now you could argue @balanced#2849 could change CD from being a slow dot (as it is now) to become a large damage multiplier.
Balanced, hopefully you know Flames of Empowerment is a debuff, not a buff, so merely increasing its effectiveness by a few % is not a solution to address this underperforming Class Feature, it needs to be true +% damage increase, other passive powers and feats should be given this treatment as well, for example Damnation tree is very lacking, feats (and capstone) need to be reworked to provide large damage bonuses for both the puppet and the warlock.
I think GWF, GF and TR are capable to hit 100 mio+ with IBS, GW, SoD. You need to be lucky and the boss near dead but won´t get in range f those classes anyway.
KF is a joke and since i do not run Soulbinder, due to the fact that the circumstances are not given in 99% , I have to run HB and use the options cryptic gave us -> bugs.
Running a striker, I do better using HG+WB+HR and optimise my AP gain and Daily frequence by running Sigil of Devoted.
I can´t wait 2 hours to get a setup that favours a Soulbinder with a crystal doing 1 phase or 2 phase kills, since you need "special friends" to do so, otherwise SB mostly sucks vs HB in a random group.
Self debuffs are a really stupid thing that sw provides. Infernal wrath, despite being a debuff is at least instance wide. Things like darkness for example, "10%" extra damage, but it's a personal debuff, making it pointless pve wise at least. In the case of darkness though I would argue the change should be from being personal to being party wide, not from debuff to buff. But things like flames of empowerment, a personal debuff, really should change to personal buff.
Still, it seems that some devs really underestimate how much of an improvement it is to change all of our self-debuffs into self buffs.
Having Damnation be functional would be a nice bonus so as to present an alternative to Fury DPS, but I suspect they would need to majorly overhaul the tree and possibly the entire Soul Puppet mechanic to make it viable.
Finally, I would like to see some of the same personal buff fixes applied to CW so that the boss performance gap between magical Strikers and the rest of the field can be reduced. SW and CW are both fully capable of being main DPS, but they should really be comparable at least to GWF if not to burst specialists like GF, TR or HR. The fact that a tank class has burst damage enough to outperform most of the actual DPS classes in the game is an ongoing issue, and the magic Strikers don't deserve a huge damage cut due to their ranged abilities since all-ranged gameplay is not a remotely viable option.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
SB>HB (both in the end) need a significant selfbuff (class feature at best) and Soul Scorch might get toned down (the Dot) to improve the burst aspect.
I would prefer more burst for the SW anyway, since DOT´s suck in so many ways in this game.
Compareable at least to GWF (?..that´s a burst class) same as GF is, who should not be able to be in range of a pure striker like SW at all.
I met dps CW´s in mod 13+14 who were on par with a "buglock", wich indicates that CW´s are not that bad as allways mentioned in terms of dps, it´s all about your build and maybe the ability to master that class also.
TR is the best DOT class and best focusdamage ingame (SoD) I´d say, wich is ok, since that class is squishy and seems to be more difficult to master.
I did not group with any GWF, GF or Hunter so far, that was able to overcome actual TR-dps. But maybe it´s only because good GWF (same as dps GF ) are rare.
Atm i avoid to run with any GWF in CR. If I group with a TR I am relaxed, Hunter ok, allready run with a dps CW... but GWF, the majority is too bad in this game, pressing all keys at once maybe ? I don´t know, a dying former fotm class, time to leave that ship
CW is indeed far more viable as DPS than most believe, but it still requires far more investment and skill to compete with other non-magical DPS, in which case the CW will still fall behind where skill and equipment are comparable.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
SW can absolutely be HDPS, no question. If you factor out DPS bug/exploit, SW could use some further attention to make it more competitive and provide for more than one viable DPS tree.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Sure, under the right circumstances SW can be HDPS, but those circumstances are either likely unintended (bug/exploit) or a lot of work for all party members involved to create. Other DPS (H or otherwise) do not require that much work, I would go as far as to state that compared to getting HDPS from an SW, most other DPS classes can just roll their face across the keyboard and get better results. And that is the state of the SW class that needs to be addressed.
And apart from me and you people are doing a pretty good job of outlining the details of the underlying flaws.
Do some random runs and maybe you get down on earth.
When did you read " lfm hdps, warlock or TR please?" anyone? This indicates the state of a class more than any words could do.
And even a slightly arrogant comment, claiming "every pleb with some skill should be able to be hdps-lock" can´t change a thing about it.
There are near no warlocks running endcontent as striker, some are and doing fine. But those who does, run with a "bugged setup", wich nearly doubles effectivness of HR, HG, WB the capstone and more. 70%+ of the overall focusdamage bugged !
The number of competetive SB tend to zero and even meeting one of them, you have to recognize ... they also cheat, using BoH combined with SS creating double effectivness from that encounter, the following DOT, the associated Creeping Death proc, and more.
So if a big part of the dealt damage is "faked-dps" at 400-500%+ effectiveness it´s not a good position and a poor argument to me.
You are obviously Scorpione from Italy on PC/Dragon server. I met harder hitting striker (TR/GF/GWF/Hunter) so far on PC , and those dish out legit dps, that´s what I talk of.
I´d like to see your SB in comparison to a TR like Resenberg (PC), wich I found to be a pretty good player, him running also random.
I can melt any boss with a "HB-Buglock", Bugbinder is not the only way, and I am equal or near equal to a Hunter/GF/GWF doing so, TR is ahead all of them atm, but maybe you are right and I am wrong and Warlock needs no attention at all.
There allready were player "onephasing" 1. Boss tong with HB and a bunch of good buffer ... but that´s fake dps and we want a fix + a buff.
Is there a way to use BoH normally without accidentally causing the increased DPS bug? It's difficult to compare the impact of different build choices when damage is completely skewed.
Also I prefer not to become accustomed to a bug like that when it really should be fixed. I'm just hoping at this point that the fact that they haven't yet fixed it is because they plan to do so at the same time they implement more tweaks.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
You can skip BoH or avoid to use powers like Hellish Rebuke, Soul Scorch, Warlocks Bargain and Hadar Grasp.
Every associated Creeping death proc and every Lesser Curse is also bugged.
I do not understand why this is happening tbh, but ACT shows up with effectiveness 500%+ in ordinary buffruns.
Hellbringer can be hdps like that. Soulbinder is also bugged, but it depends more on your timing how much dps you can pull out that bug as Soulbinder.
A fix will lead to a sifnificant dps drop for HB and for SB also but not that much I guess.
Warlock is bugged since the beginning, even after endless fixes and reworks the class still relies to bugs , you have to deal with it (I do) or simply switch to another class, looks like TR is the upcoming champion.
So if you want to play legit the only option is to run a Hellbringer-templock without BoH and as dps the "Tab-machine" without BoH -> FoP or IS is also an option, as long as you enter endcontent. But doing so you are inferior to other striker imo.
I dislike the mechanic, "tabbing" your way all through dungeons, since it´s controverse killing your best selfbuff, reapplying it, killing it, reapplying it and so on -taht´s Soulbinder in short- , personal taste.
My personal opinion about legit or not in this game: If core mechanics and powers are bugged for years I take them as WAI, I can´t wait another 4 years to play a class legit, even though I say "fix it and buff it"... but we all know how slow things get addressed, except last SoD patch. Sometimes you get a fix and the buff waits for another 2 years.
Running with a TR before fix , noone said: "You should not play that class until SoD got fixed" or "avoid stealth to prevent capstone from proccing, wait for fix", everyone said "enjoy until it´s over", since otherwise there is no need for other striker-classes in the game any more.
As long as it lasted, the hole group grinded and abused that bug in codg, since it just speeded things up.
If I enter Codg and someone write, "yeah, buglock-power" and we end up in melting that endboss, everyone is ok with it, noone cries.
A player that is capable to run empowered FF and empowered Exalt at once is more or less "talented" in my eyes, since he "mastered" that bug, many fail doing so. Honestly most player, especially the ones that writes in chat "I can handle it" only got a big mouth and normally he can´t handle it 24/7, since it´s a pain in the ...
But about those who do, I don´t see the difference between him and a GF that dishes out constant 100mio+ GW or a TR dealing 300mio+SoD, same category, they do good.
I enjoy seeing SWs being invited as HDPS.
10000%
As for content where the bug does work... All content. The one thing we did learn is that the SW bug tends to be most effective on single targets and the longer the fight the better the damage produced by a SW.
The devs need to fix this so any SW thinking that they are a god as DPS can come back to reality.