Is NWO a usual slasher?

dolrey

Hello You probably can find name of this thread very strange but I can explain that it isn't so nonsense as it looks like.

Lets start from short overview of gameplay in NWO from the point of view of mmorpg player:
1) You start at lvl 1 and complete different quests. Somebody can call it usual routine but I think that these quests and stories are still much better than in other online games.
2) After reaching lvl 70 you complete campaigns and gain relatively good equipment. At this stage game process for new player still is interesting because battle mechanics are new for him. But after many years daily quests has became boring because with time you are bored of battle mechanics. Really even if there are thousands of different monsters you still use almost same skill set. Same buttons for many years.. Needless to say how boring it is.
3) Finally! You got top and almost bis equipment! You want to have fun in hard dungeons! But wait... What?!? You just press one button and SLASH flows of monsters on your way having 4 supports in your team. Oh my god... Please no... Is it one more cheap slasher?

Yes friends.. Finally after years of playing this game I came to this conclusion. Looks like this is the reason of many asks for "challenge" and "class balance". Even if story, graphics and even game performance are at good level but battle system is very very stupid and not thought out.

For many years we discussed tons of information about "class balance" and "challenge" and I don't want to repeat it here again. Exactly in this thread I want to say that D&D deserve more than cheap slasher. So could you please finally pay attention to battle mechanics because it should be thought out much much better.

agilesto

You are talking about end-game players with full support group composition that can melt everything in seconds. What fraction of the total do you think these players represent? Way less than 1%.

For all the others, non-BiS, in non-full support groups, etc end-game dungeons are a real challenge, too hard for some, and I can garantee you that they don't simply slash flows of monsters, and have to pay attention to the game mechanics, or they die. Didn't avoid poison on Hati? Died. Didn't get to the group with Hypothermia on Drufi/SVA? Died. Didn't focus on souls when they appear on Ras Nsi? Died. Didn't get stoned with the curse on Nostura? Died. And so on.

There are battle mechanics from CN to the last content. If you and your group don't have to do them because you're simply too good, then good for you. If you want to experiment them, try pug, and I can tell you that you won't slash into monsters and will have to actually pay attention to what you're doing.

wd1966

I concur with agilesto on that. A slashing approach works when the focus of each PC was to max out the key stats for everyone to hack 'n' slash, which seems to me as PVP'ing all the time and not much different from typical military shooters.

Sword and sorcery battle mechanics takes a lot of work on both sides with the players and dev's. The third side of this coin is the social gaming, where the groups come together to play. Hope these give a different perspective.

archangelzorak01

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at dolrey. I can assure you that at the highest level of play in Neverwinter the players very much have to think about what they are doing.

At the highest level of play the players are very conscious of the decisions they make when managing what skills to use and when. Neverwinter might not have the usual 'resource management' of similarly styled games, but what we do have is time. We manage time, in the form of cooldowns, AP generation, stamina drain, duration of buffs and debuffs, etc.

Alongside all these individual factors we manage group composition. Every class has potential in an arena, whether it be damage, healing, buffs, debuffs, protection or some combination thereof. Each member of a party, either 5 or 10 man has to do their individual job of managing their buffs, debuffs, cooldowns and AP gain. Each member has to also be conscious of what the other members of their party are doing to maximize the effectiveness of each individual as well as the entire team's effectiveness.

While all of the above is happening, each member of a party then has to manage physical positioning, as standing in the wrong place at the wrong time can end in disaster. Moving when you're supposed to move, or standing still when you need to. Dodging one-shots or absorbing damage for yourself or for others.

All these things combine into a dynamic interplay that is at times both ordered and chaotic. If any one cog in the machine breaks or seizes it can have immense and rippling effects to the entire mechanism.

I don't know at what level you play but I think you are drastically over-simplifying a complex system.

archangelzorak01

In some ways I agree with your sentiment. I feel that trash mobs in dungeons should be significantly more difficult. I feel that they should pose a much more significant threat, requiring proper tanking, healing and positioning. Health on enemies in dungeons should be increased substantially, at least 5-10x. I also feel that healing numbers in NW are immensely over-inflated. I have a paladin alt who can tap Sanctuary and heal for millions. I've actually healed for 16million with a single heal on a single target, its rather absurd.

If enemies were a bit more robust perhaps there would be more resource management involved in dispatching them.

What I don't agree with is your over-simplification of what players have to do. When you are in a group that melts mobs in seconds or see a video of others melting said mobs. Those players are all doing a great many things to make that happen, managing themselves in correlation to those around them. So at least give credit where credit is due.

archangelzorak01

You are entirely correct. There are a vast majority of players who simply ignore mechanics because they can stack so many buffs and increase their damage so high that all mechanics can be ignored. You can immediately recognize these people when they get put into a non-optimized, less than perfect party that requires using boss fight mechanics to defeat a boss. In that position these persons have no idea how to play and quit, usually blaming someone else in the process.

I also believe that Neverwinter would be a much better game if it was completely impossible to ignore boss fight mechanics. I despise the 'meta' that has arisen that focuses on buff stacking to such a high degree that a vast majority of mechanics can be ignored. I applauded the introduction of Cradle of the Death God because, to a certain extent, it forces at least some use of boss mechanics. There are many who may decry the platform in Cradle, but I applaud it wholeheartedly and hope to see more un-avoidable mechanics in the future.

The second reason why I abhor buff/debuff/power stacking or abusing immunity of any kind to avoid damage is that it makes players laaaaaazy. The first example of this was in Master Svardborg. Rather than standing on runes to prevent incoming damage as was designed, players opted to rely entirely on Anointed Army to make them immune to the damage. Now I can't blame the players for this, not entirely. Part of the blame falls on the developers for not having that damage from that boss-fight mechanic ignore the immunity granted by AA. When designing a boss-fight mechanic like that, that requires the use of the environment to mitigate damage, the damage needs to be made unavoidable, to force the players to learn and use the environment as intended. What I can blame the players for is not learning how to do the fight without AA, or even worse... refusing to even try to learn how.

The laziness is still felt today, in Cradle, where the vast majority of players ignore the ground splats that deal immense damage and rely on Anointed Army to protect them so they don't have to stop their precious rotations. I always dodge these damage splats, and more often then not I look back and see a pile of corpses on the ground. Even still, in a very strong group, the pull/push mechanic is the only thing you ever have to worry about. All other mechanics can be (and are) ignored entirely and simply replaced by raw damage output.

There is some hope in Castle Ravenloft. In CR there are a couple of mechanics that cannot be ignored and that aren't as annoying or punishing as falling off a platform and instantly dying. Their are also DPS checks, at a certain point in the first boss encounter you either have the DPS to not be insta-killed or you don't, in which case you all die. If you don't have the DPS, too bad so sad.. come back when you're stronger or with a better optimized group. At the same time no amount of raw damage can defeat the first boss without using the mechanics the way they were designed. Having a stronger group will make it easier and the fight will go faster, but you can't just go balls out DPS and ignore the mechanics. I could write an entire thread about how well the first boss is designed.. in fact I think I might go do that...

rjc9000

No, it's not a hack and slash game.

I can't do sick combos, my characters have the personality of a brick, and people are not complaining about a simple inputs option.

karvare

Well, as someone who PUGs a lot, mostly CN; I find I have to carefully manage my OP tank to allow for the group. Are they dropping like flies, then its a shield for them instead of a hammer for me. I find myself constantly watching cool downs and AP to keep them alive. At just under 14k I am far removed from BiS, and not sweating getting more. I think that your problem may be solved with running with weaker groups, help out the lower ILs of your guild or alliance.

I can understand that at BiS you may feel this way, but rest assured there are others that are thanking their stars when that rare group of competent players come together to make it to the end at all.

If they can buff great, if not then at least do your job of heals, tank, or dps. That's all you have to do, and forget the people that demand the meta. Meta changes.

sandukutupu

I understand. This is not a "thinking game" at all. It is just hack and slash from beginning to end. This is why I return to my original Guild Wars every so often. The level cap is 20, so the game is not about leveling, the game focus is on builds and having to change them often per battle. I have to know my enemy, I have learn their weakness, and experiment with a wide variety of skills.

For example; I ran a fire elementalist through the first campaign and you are using fire damage. However you get to the end game and you are on a volcanic island fighting lava monsters (Titans) immune to fire damage. Time to rework that build. The game also allows you alter your build anytime at no cost. I also like the fact that I can run dual professions and have an ax wielding monk or a warrior with spell casting abilities.

Yes, I do understand. This is not advert for Guild Wars, I am just using it as comparison. Also it is not "Free to Play" like the sequel, but the sequel is a lot more like this game. I believe they still offer 10 day free trials, if you want to understand the mechanics better what I have said here. The only downside is the lack of additional content, once you play the trilogy and bonus material, the story ends, and you are left with repeat dungeons, quests, and PvP.