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Official Feedback Thread: Astral Diamonds

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  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    Sorry man, I just can't. My ADD doesn't allow me to. Wall of text you know...

    Broke it down into sections for those that were discouraged to read it in it's original state :)



    Hi all, guys
    I am experiencing a feeling of discomfort and boredom in the game, after the new module has gone live. The new content is nice and I really appreciate it, but all the positive aspects you introduced in this module have been moved to the background by the cap on the rADs refinement.
    Well, let's come to what happened to me.

    After the new module went live, first of all I tried the new changes on the random queues. I did some random low dungeons (I got a kessell on the first day, eTOS on the second one), and everything went smooth. The tragedy happens on the advanced random queues. Those queues are full of low level characters grinding for ADs (and some good items to drop) and hoping for higher players to carry them trough endgame contents. I personally understand that people want to grow and therefore they try the endgame contents without the required minimal skills to face them, but parties with a majority of 11-12k characters will never close dungeons like mSP, FBI or mSVA, even if they put their best effort.
    And here it is what happens in the majority of the cases. After a lot of wasted time, people accusing each other, people screaming that 11K toons should NEVER join mSP, kicks, requests of reinforcements where the new entering players are even worse... Well, after all this, usually the party decides to leave the queue: after all this stress, players grab in their hands the most absolute nothing.

    You introduced the advanced queues as something "challenging", I found them "frustrating" instead, both for low players that for higher players. Nobody wants to waste time after something totally unpredictable, with a very high chance to fail: this will result in a gradual drop of the number of players using this feature. At least you should raise the IL cap to 13K for endgame contents.
    But this is the lesser evil in this new module: honestly I find that the limit on rADs refinement is the worst thing you could ever introduce in this game. Ok: as you stated, casual players and low level players will have a benefit from this changings because they will have access to a higher amount of ADs per day (100K now, instead of the 24K/36K we had when I started playing) and therefore, this will grant them a good amount of richness to reach a good level in a reasonable time. But times will come when the daily 100K of ADs won't be enough anymore to grow. Pets to be bought or upgraded (we need 1M of ADs if we haven't the companion tokens, to upgrade a pet to legendary rank: that is, 10 days of farming for each pet), enchantments to be upgraded (marks, refinement points, enchanting stones, preservation wards and coalescent wards for the 1% upgrades), mounts, equipments (especially the ones who need to be upgraded, like artifacts, weapons, necks and belts).

    A legendary mount has an average cost of 11 Millions of ADs: this means that (unless you don't drop something valuable from dungeons) it will take at least 4 months to buy one, and you will have to gather ADs for all the time, spending even one of them for other stuff is strictly forbidden, otherwise the target will become more and more a Chimaera. Considering that the average time between two modules is about three months, buying a legendary mount implies that you won't do anything for an entire module... it's quite choking, don't you think? People will start finding the game frustrating, if they have to struggle for days and weeks to see a minimal upgrade on their characters; buying Zens won't be their first option, but many of them will gradually abandon the game; we're always talking about casual free players, that are for sure less dedicated to Neverwinter and won't think twice before jumping into another MMORPG.

    And let's see what happens to old dedicated players like me. I play everyday and I have time to do it. I have two 18K characters (DC and CW) and a 13K GF and I'm mainly a farmer, even if I've done some Zen purchases (when purchasing them was still worth it) during my three year "career" here in Neverwinter. I love running dungeons and maybe this is the main reason that encouraged me playing NW for all this time. Till last week, I had an average daily income of 220-250K ADs (not counting the random sellable drops), and I was sure I could use the entire amount of my daily earnings for my growth: I was also able to buy Zens via ZAX, for personal use (mainly services, preservations, keys when i get the discount) and not to speculate on Zen market items as many do. Actually i can reach 100k in a very short time (a couple of dungeons and some hunts are enough) and, after refining them, all the extra rADs are totally useless: as I actually play everyday, all the extra rADs are finishing in a huge (daily-increasing) mountain of useless richness I will hardly drain. Let's consider that, 4 days after the release, I already sit on about 500k of rADs, and this amount will raise more and more... I don't even dare to imagine how many rADs I will have in a month or two! This has several negative effects. First of all, I've stopped running dungeons: there's no point in doing it actually, and even if I love dungeoning, I simply won't do it if I cannot enjoy the fruits of my game.

    Where's the old rule stating that the more you play, the more you grow? ? The in-game time of a dedicated player is totally different from the time a casual player spends playing, and putting them on the same level is simply discouraging to even play more than one hour or two, let's figure out if this state of facts can improve our desire to invest money on our characters.
    The lost of interest in dungeoning had a severe impact on my moral and my trill to the game. After running a couple of dungeons, doing the dailies and hunting, I am not able to find a point to do something else in the game, then I simply log out.
    Before this module I was happy to jump into the game... now I'm bored, even the smallest things seem to become huge rocks to move, and I have no reason to do them.

    From what I've heard, this feeling of frustration and uselessness isn't so rare among players. I understand your need to increase your money income from Zen purchases, but starving players to "encourage" them to shop is not the right way. You should, instead, rework the Zen Store to make its items more desirable (for example, why should I buy an epic mount for 3500Zen -that is, 1,75 millions of ADs- when i can buy the same mount for 150k on AH? ); make offers on purchases; raise the amount of Zen you get for a basic purchase... people have to be tempted, not forced to shop! Moreover, this cap makes the time required to reach targets too long even for old players, generating frustration and lost of interest for the game: and these are not encouragements to shop, but to stop.

    I still hope you can find a compromise, and modify this state of things as soon and better as possible. Even raising the cap to 200k could be an amicable way to make people accept it. At least, we wouldn't feel so chocked as we are feeling now, and farming dungeons would become again funny, challenging and with an objective to reach: exactly as it was before.
    I'm sorry for the lenght and thanks for reading.
    Greetings




    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • dearanyone32#6862 dearanyone32 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    > @greywynd said:
    > They released M14. How do you know they haven't taken the feedback? Because changes weren't immediately made? Sorry, they monitor the state of the game. Whatever tweaks they decide need to be made will be made.
    >
    > Player feedback was listened to; we now have a shared slot for AD, comp upgrade tokens, etc.
    >
    > Honestly, I find the game less of a chore now. No more spending my day only chasing after AD. Spend a bit more time wondering what to do next.

    This thread was made May 10th and now that it went live I'd bet a legendary pack of your choice that it will never be changed unless they somehow make it even worse.

    Just like RQ's, noone wanted them nor asked for them and now the bonuses are account wide which is another nerf. If you truly think the devs give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about these feedback posts or what players say you are in denial.

    Oh, they listened to player feedback because they gave us shared "AD bank" at the cost of nerfing rAD and bonuses from RQ? That's like me wanting to buy a car from someone and asking to lower the price for months and they finally "listen" and lower the price but end up selling it to me without an engine.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,516 Arc User
    6 weeks from thread start to mod going live. In the grand scheme of things that is not a lot of time.

    The shared slots for AD and comp tokens has been asked for FOR YEARS.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 645 Arc User


    Just like RQ's, noone wanted them nor asked for them and now the bonuses are account wide which is another nerf.

    Oh, they listened to player feedback because they gave us shared "AD bank" at the cost of nerfing rAD and bonuses from RQ?

    Facts
    greywynd said:


    The shared slots for AD and comp tokens has been asked for FOR YEARS.

    How much of a benefit are those things compared to what has been nerfed/taken away?

    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • dearanyone32#6862 dearanyone32 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    > @greywynd said:
    > 6 weeks from thread start to mod going live. In the grand scheme of things that is not a lot of time.
    >
    > The shared slots for AD and comp tokens has been asked for FOR YEARS.

    6 weeks is enough time to realize it was a bad choice. In Neverwinter, if it goes live you are stuck with it and nothing will change.

    While shared comp tokens and AD are nice, they didn't give it to us without a price and they took away more than we gained. This change is to encourage players to spend actual money. This isn't about fixing the economy, if it was the devs wouldn't have let it get the way it is.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,516 Arc User
    So? If you can't/won't spend any money to support the game, then you really don't have a lot of ground to argue if your progress is relatively slow.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    While shared comp tokens and AD are nice, they didn't give it to us without a price and they took away more than we gained. This change is to encourage players to spend actual money. This isn't about fixing the economy, if it was the devs wouldn't have let it get the way it is.

    Giving a little and taking away a lot is not positive.
    greywynd said:

    So? If you can't/won't spend any money to support the game, then you really don't have a lot of ground to argue if your progress is relatively slow.

    Progress over the development of the game has been made slower...

    Giving players the means to progress fairly well via F2P means then turning around and yanking it out from under them is not the same thing as F2P equating to slow progress from the beginning and that model being consistent throughout the development of the game...

    If you spent a considerable amount of money on the game and later lost access to your account due to the amount of time you play how would you feel ? What sense does it make for players to lose access to their account because their play time is considered to be illegitimate even when they can prove that are playing within the rules, not to mention mod after mod inclining more time to compensate for nerfs? Why continue to financially support a game that penalizes you for playing it "too much"?
    Post edited by trinity706#8838 on
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,516 Arc User
    Are the same devs working on the game as when it started?

    Is the company still in the same hands as when the game started?

    Teams change. Priorities changes. Directives change.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 645 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Are the same devs working on the game as when it started?

    Is the company still in the same hands as when the game started?

    Teams change. Priorities changes. Directives change.

    Even with management and development team changes the course has essentially been the same:

    (Not necessarily in this order)
    Seek more revenue > Give the players something > take something(s) away/nerf things (to a higher degree) > make the game harder

    Different people, same/similar outcomes so staff changes mean what exactly? An "under new management" sign doesn't mean much when the service is worse than before...
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • rubytruerubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User


    While shared comp tokens and AD are nice, they didn't give it to us without a price and they took away more than we gained. This change is to encourage players to spend actual money. This isn't about fixing the economy, if it was the devs wouldn't have let it get the way it is.

    I may not be a rocket surgeon, but somehow I think that without players spending actual money, there won't be an in-game economy to fix. It is a crazy notion, but I was under the assumption that "actual money" and "economy" were somehow inextricably linked in some bizarre way.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    regenerde said:

    Well, i didn't care much about refining rAD to the limit before, but now i'm allways making sure to reach the 100k and more every. single. day.!

    And i doubt, that i'm the only one playing like this these days... not to mention that Jubilee and Ravenloft were/are heaven for creating and leveling/gearing up new characters on alt. accounts.

    It'll be interesting to see what the Devs try next...

    yeah this may well backfire on them.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    not everyone is upset about this. this is not a universal thread. and odds are the majority have more ad from refining than they did before. I find it weird that no one was listening to the dev when he commented that they were doing it and the correct tact would be to ask for a better daily refining amount. no one jumped on that and was heard as a single voice that 200k or 300 would be way better... so.. yeah.

    I personally welcome my new alien overlords.

    ie I think it's a good thing.

    but I think people will actually end up wiht more ad than they did before as a whole or more people than did before so it might actually generate more new ad than the old system. time will tell
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    and odds are the majority have more ad from refining than they did before.

    I doubt this is true.

    Your average scrub would have been running 2x normal dungeons and 2x skirms before the change for maybe 30k AD a day while now they get 8k a day from the one queue they run. This puts players 22k in the hole right at the start. It is very difficult to get to 100k per day for scrubs now so this nerf will not impact them as much as the random queues nerf has.

    Scrub players can indeed continue to run an infinite amount of random queues to get to 100k but, and this is exceptionally critical, the AD/hour rate from doing this is fairly pathetic at about 20k per hour. If you think new players running random queues for four and a bit hours a day to make 100k is better than before then we really dont have any common ground.

    As others have pointed out as your investment in the game increases then the likelihood of this nerf hitting you hard also increases.
    First random levelling queue per day: 13.8K. What's this "8K" nonsense?
    First random intermediate (totally doable with Ravenloft starting free gear): another 24.3K with role bonus, and everyone should have a tank or healer alt. Without role bonus, 20.7K

    Neither of those counts seals or drops. So that's 35K, easily, before drops.

    #1: random queues are a very slow way to earn AD, and running Random queues to earn AD is what you do when you're bored, not farming AD.

    #2: Your numbers on random queues are way, way, way low.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 645 Arc User

    I find it weird that no one was listening to the dev when he commented that they were doing it and the correct tact would be to ask for a better daily refining amount. no one jumped on that and was heard as a single voice that 200k or 300 would be way better... so.. yeah.

    Personally feel the cap isn't the issue when compared to the time/effort required to reach it in Mod 14... then again...

    The cap isn't necessarily the problem, the rate at which it is reached is though... Even if the cap was 300k it essentially will take around 8 hours to hit 100k with RQ's, how much more time to get the remaining "200k" with daily bonuses only being available for one character?

    That's part of the reason players are suggesting the daily bonuses be available for multiple characters so that at least they can reach the cap instead of having a cap and it damn near being impossible to reach as well. Daily bonuses on multiple characters would be a reasonable change.

    Then there's:

    We did pull data on how much of our player base earns over 100k RAD on any given day before implementing this change, and that percentage is lower single digits. That number goes even lower when looking at how many accounts earn over 100k RAD every single day.

    Why put a cap in the first place then?...
    lowjohn said:


    First random levelling queue per day: 13.8K. What's this "8K" nonsense?
    First random intermediate (totally doable with Ravenloft starting free gear): another 24.3K with role bonus, and everyone should have a tank or healer alt. Without role bonus, 20.7K

    8k from a LQ essentially comes from when the BRAD is depleted. Each daily LQ will eat about 4k BRAD, less than 4k BRAD can be generated daily which takes 2.5 hrs so if a player doesn't invoke 5x daily their BRAD will deplete even faster and will eventually be receiving base AD rewards.

    Each daily IQ will essentially grant 12k because BRAD will soon be depleted. Each daily IQ will drain about 6k BRAD, add that to the 4k an LQ will drain and the total is 10k BRAD reduction, again, less than 4k a day from invoking so running a LQ+ IQ daily will deplete BRAD twice as fast as it is generated and soon enough leaving only the base AD reward rates. What spunkmeier stated is true for the most part, about 20k AD/hour in Mod 14 sounds about right especially with longer content being added to the RQ sections and if players get into content with lower ilvl players/abusers and leave they will receive an account-wide 30 queue lockout which will lower the AD/hour even more...

    An hour pre-Mod 14 yielded more generated AD than Mod 14 hands down.
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,516 Arc User
    Time. Effort. Income. Pay check...

    Hate to break it to most, but this isn't a job. It's entertainment. You either enjoy it or you don't. If you turn it into work it definitely falls on the "not fun" side.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User


    Then there's:

    We did pull data on how much of our player base earns over 100k RAD on any given day before implementing this change, and that percentage is lower single digits. That number goes even lower when looking at how many accounts earn over 100k RAD every single day.

    Why put a cap in the first place then?...
    Because the accounts that *do* go over 100K go over it by a lot, and are distorting the market for everyone else.

    lowjohn said:


    First random levelling queue per day: 13.8K. What's this "8K" nonsense?
    First random intermediate (totally doable with Ravenloft starting free gear): another 24.3K with role bonus, and everyone should have a tank or healer alt. Without role bonus, 20.7K

    8k from a LQ essentially comes from when the BRAD is depleted. Each daily LQ will eat about 4k BRAD, less than 4k BRAD can be generated daily which takes 2.5 hrs so if a player doesn't invoke 5x daily their BRAD will deplete even faster and will eventually be receiving base AD rewards.

    Each daily IQ will essentially grant 12k because BRAD will soon be depleted. Each daily IQ will drain about 6k BRAD, add that to the 4k an LQ will drain and the total is 10k BRAD reduction, again, less than 4k a day from invoking so running a LQ+ IQ daily will deplete BRAD twice as fast as it is generated and soon enough leaving only the base AD reward rates. What spunkmeier stated is true for the most part, about 20k AD/hour in Mod 14 sounds about right especially with longer content being added to the RQ sections and if players get into content with lower ilvl players/abusers and leave they will receive an account-wide 30 queue lockout which will lower the AD/hour even more...

    An hour pre-Mod 14 yielded more generated AD than Mod 14 hands down.
    *Only* if you're running random low queues for AD (which is slow and inefficient, and was slow and inefficient in mod 13, too, just less so) *and* you disregard salvage+seals+role bonus *and* you don't have alts to hand the salvage/seal gear off to to get their RAD bonus..... but if all that is true (particularly the "not enough alts to get bonus RAD from bound salvage" part), you weren't getting over 100k/day in mod 13, either.

  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Sounds like it's working as intended.
    Pretty certain most of the people who hit their weekly cap already have been stockpiling salvage for weeks - so no surprise there. Now they proudly sit on piles of unrefined RAD which is amusing to see.

    Also kind of funny how before mod14, they were exacerbating the backlog for everyone else, and now they get to experience a backlog of their very own.
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User
    FWIW, I've never "stockpiled" salvage. I'm starting to have it stack up *now*, though - toss it in the mailbox and forget about it until the mail is full or I run out of RAD, because there's no point in pulling it out and salvaging it if I can't use the RAD.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 645 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Time. Effort. Income. Pay check...

    Hate to break it to most, but this isn't a job. It's entertainment. You either enjoy it or you don't. If you turn it into work it definitely falls on the "not fun" side.

    True It is entertainment and it is also true that this entertainment is enjoyed differently depending on the player though is continually being made less enjoyable for a number of them. Name a game where each and every aspect of it is enjoyable by the majority of players...

    Is in-game progress not enjoyable? The means may not so much be though the end result is/should be and with that being stated if players want to do things that aren't necessarily enjoyable themselves but help facilitate their overall enjoyment of the game they should should be able to do/achieve that in a reasonable manner. Again, if a player plays for longer periods of time they should get an equivalence in progress without being put on such a daily artificial hamster wheel after a certain point as presented in Mod 14. To a number of players the "means" such as RQ farming (not necessarily enjoyable things), justify the "ends" (character progress). There are a number of things in Neverwinter that aren't necessarily enjoyable but produce things that are, some players enjoy the means as well as the ends.

    Comparing things like in-game time, effort and progress to actual RL work is to show the correlation.

    A (working) + B (paycheck) = C (things you can do)

    A (playing) + B (rewards and or AD) = C (progress)

    Mod 14 does this to the above 2nd equation:

    (A/X) + (B/Y) = C

    X = time to generate AD being increased
    Y = RAD cap
    lowjohn said:

    Because the accounts that *do* go over 100K go over it by a lot, and are distorting the market for everyone else.

    So the lower single digit percentage of accounts distorts the market for everyone huh?

    Essentially no matter the ADX/AH prices it would take casual players considerable amounts of time to afford purchases anyway, months on top of months and all the while everyone else is supposed to suffer? Really?...

    "If CP's are still slow/slower to gain AD how does the Mod 14 system help them? Supposed lower prices with slower AD generation/gains is the SAME thing..."


    A player with 2 characters and around an hour or two of playtime per session could generate a maximum of 72k which essentially isn't achievable within an hour, let alone 2 and BRAD, therefore those type of players weren't generating much AD anyway, if they were to generate around 25k per session what timely progress would/could they make including campaign progress...
    lowjohn said:

    *Only* if you're running random low queues for AD (which is slow and inefficient, and was slow and inefficient in mod 13, too, just less so) *and* you disregard salvage+seals+role bonus

    If it was slow and inefficient why do you think so many players that play more than an hour or so/considerably more per session are complaining about it? Role bonus is not guaranteed and salvaging w/o BRAD isn't as efficient as simply running another character pre-Mod 14.


    2.5 hours of invoking on two characters pre-Mod 14 would grant enough BRAD to satisfy one NDRQ or skirmish and any items could simply be transferred to an additionally purchased character to salvage to help prevent 0 BRAD situations, then again, 2 characters running RQ's could essentially generate 27k AD in around 30 minutes w/o salvaging pre-Mod 14. Personally feel that salvaging/running RQ content w/o sufficient BRAD is a waste and since 1 RQ drains the daily allotment any salvage gained simply goes to a character that doesn't RQ that way BRAD is maintained instead of completely depleted.


    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • lowjohnlowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User


    If it was slow and inefficient why do you think so many players that play more than an hour or so/considerably more per session are complaining about it?

    Because some people will always try to ice-skate uphill?

    I'll take your numbers as gospel: With two toons running daily randoms, you could generate 27k in 30 minutes.

    That was SLOW.

    That was the slow way of making AD.

    Most of the faster ways I know of don't work as well with the 100k/account cap instead of 36k/toon. They're not nearly as efficient now.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,516 Arc User
    @trinity706#8838

    Since I have started this game I have been of the opinion that the prices in the Wondrous Bazaar and the zen market are much too high with the sole intent of generating income for the game or slowing player progress.

    "I need 15 GMoPs? Well, that is going to take a while..." And yes, they just tripled the amount of time that is going to take. Do I like it? Not particularly. Now, I can adapt and prepare to go at a much slower pace on improving, or hope I get lucky in the Dread Ring lairs, or I can stop playing and find something else to do with my time.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    greywynd said:

    Now, I can adapt and prepare to go at a much slower pace on improving, or hope I get lucky in the Dread Ring lairs, or I can stop playing and find something else to do with my time.

    Those are yours and everyone's rightful choices to make as is posting on the forums.

    With a decent game the money will come, trying to force it, not so much. It's virtual items/currency so it's not like there will be money lost LoL
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,516 Arc User
    Except money does change hands that is not virtual. Money to buy zen to exchange for AD. Zen items bought and sold in the Auction House at drastically inflated prices.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 645 Arc User
    Apologies, money lost as in with Zen/Wondrous price reductions.

    The market is the market, players don't have to purchase items they feel are too high...
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,516 Arc User
    True, but I can't help but feel this is a squeeze to get the players to do so.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    Has anything been said about adjusting prices in the WB at some point?
    I really hope that's somewhere down the road.
  • winterlloyd#1977 winterlloyd Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    At this point I think anybody who's denying the fact that this choice isn't for the benefit of the players is in the denial. It's bright clear. They gave us a little candy to cheer about: shared AD bank... Yayyy... 0.2 seconds faster than placing an offer and taking it back with the character that needs the ADs, if your VIP grade isn't high enough for summoning the portable bank. And then they nerfed or means to earn ADs with the excuse of "lowering the total amount of AD in the game" to balance the Zen/AD exchange. Nonsense. Guess what? This will raise the amount of people buying Zen to convert in ADs, since you can't make as much as before, but such amounts of Zen will never be enough to balance the amount of ADs people offer in exchange. Most likely people will get things with Zen instead of ADs because it's even faster now. Moreover, this doesn't even solve the chore-like daily grinding needed for AD, it's just another kind of daily grinding: no more random queues on each character, but rather one single dungeon ran a lot of times (EToS or Tuern) or tons of HEs to earn Seals of the Brave to buy stuff to salvage in order to reach the 100k cap (oh and, if your GS isn't 14k+ you're never going to get Advanced Queue done, or even if you do, not in a reasonable amount of time. So, even more grinding for salvaging).

    If you think this change is for better and thought for the benefit of the players, I'm sorry, you're objectively wrong.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    lowjohn said:


    Then there's:

    We did pull data on how much of our player base earns over 100k RAD on any given day before implementing this change, and that percentage is lower single digits. That number goes even lower when looking at how many accounts earn over 100k RAD every single day.

    Why put a cap in the first place then?...
    Because the accounts that *do* go over 100K go over it by a lot, and are distorting the market for everyone else.

    lowjohn said:


    First random levelling queue per day: 13.8K. What's this "8K" nonsense?
    First random intermediate (totally doable with Ravenloft starting free gear): another 24.3K with role bonus, and everyone should have a tank or healer alt. Without role bonus, 20.7K

    8k from a LQ essentially comes from when the BRAD is depleted. Each daily LQ will eat about 4k BRAD, less than 4k BRAD can be generated daily which takes 2.5 hrs so if a player doesn't invoke 5x daily their BRAD will deplete even faster and will eventually be receiving base AD rewards.

    Each daily IQ will essentially grant 12k because BRAD will soon be depleted. Each daily IQ will drain about 6k BRAD, add that to the 4k an LQ will drain and the total is 10k BRAD reduction, again, less than 4k a day from invoking so running a LQ+ IQ daily will deplete BRAD twice as fast as it is generated and soon enough leaving only the base AD reward rates. What spunkmeier stated is true for the most part, about 20k AD/hour in Mod 14 sounds about right especially with longer content being added to the RQ sections and if players get into content with lower ilvl players/abusers and leave they will receive an account-wide 30 queue lockout which will lower the AD/hour even more...

    An hour pre-Mod 14 yielded more generated AD than Mod 14 hands down.
    *Only* if you're running random low queues for AD (which is slow and inefficient, and was slow and inefficient in mod 13, too, just less so) *and* you disregard salvage+seals+role bonus *and* you don't have alts to hand the salvage/seal gear off to to get their RAD bonus..... but if all that is true (particularly the "not enough alts to get bonus RAD from bound salvage" part), you weren't getting over 100k/day in mod 13, either.

    heck even 5 min multiple runs of demo gets enough salvage gear to add up quickly plus faerezzes for the double chest in cn. in an hour or so of farming decent dungeons you make a lot more with salvage than you seem to be allowing. I can easily hit over 100k without effort wihtout breaking a sweat.
  • trinity706#8838 trinity706 Member Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    greywynd said:

    True, but I can't help but feel this is a squeeze to get the players to do so.

    As in purchase Zen? If so, of course. Putting a cap on AD generation hits players high and slowing the AD generation considerably hits players low. Less AD for players to try and convert to Zen means more inclination to spend money to buy Zen.

    --+-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+--

    Lowering prices for items in the Zen market/WB will encourage purchases of Zen, selling two higher sought Zen market items at a lower price would yield more sales than 1 at a higher price would it not.? The recent reductions are quite decent though the highly sough after items such as in the refinement section were untouched (coalescent wards), even periodic unannounced "flash sales" where players could only buy one CW or set 10 PW's that day would be great.

    At this point I think anybody who's denying the fact that this choice isn't for the benefit of the players is in the denial. It's bright clear. They gave us a little candy to cheer about: shared AD bank... Yayyy... 0.2 seconds faster than placing an offer and taking it back with the character that needs the ADs, if your VIP grade isn't high enough for summoning the portable bank. And then they nerfed or means to earn ADs with the excuse of "lowering the total amount of AD in the game" to balance the Zen/AD exchange. Nonsense.

    Most likely people will get things with Zen instead of ADs because it's even faster now. Moreover, this doesn't even solve the chore-like daily grinding needed for AD, it's just another kind of daily grinding: no more random queues on each character, but rather one single dungeon ran a lot of times (EToS or Tuern) or tons of HEs to earn Seals of the Brave to buy stuff to salvage in order to reach the 100k cap

    So, even more grinding for salvaging).
    Sounds about right.

    heck even 5 min multiple runs of demo gets enough salvage gear to add up quickly plus faerezzes for the double chest in cn. in an hour or so of farming decent dungeons you make a lot more with salvage than you seem to be allowing. I can easily hit over 100k without effort wihtout breaking a sweat.

    The players this Mod is supposed to be helping arguably won't be at the point where they can effectively farm salvage, especially newer players. Salvage may be a "good" way for players that have the time, can brute force through it and have access to the players to help make it happen though "most" newer/casual players won't.

    It's easy to forget where you came from and describe/suggest what players can do later in the game in regard to generating AD though for those no where near that point it doesn't help them and personally which is in part why the responses are centered around what can be done in about 1-2 hours of play per session and what the majority of players have access to from the start which is RQ's. New players aren't going to be farming salvage anytime soon so suggesting farming salvage does nothing for them in the mean time.

    --+-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+ +-~* *~-+--

    When you have completed lower campaigns and essentially only have the latest content to work on a player can have more time to farm though when you don't play for considerable amounts of time and are working on a campaign(s) AND trying to generate AD the progress of both is significantly reduced and campaign progress is essential to character progress as well as AD...
    “There are changes that can be made that don’t require coding...” - TriNitY
    "No amount of coding will change human behavior" - TriNitY

    Ongoing Issue: Legitmate Players Banned for Botting (Console) and the Future for "Dedicated" Players

    Suggestions: (Implemented) \/\/ Rearrange Character on character Select Screen
This discussion has been closed.