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"Least Bad" way for a DC to be useful in PvP?

adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,938Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
I don't really like PvP - however, my guild needs Conqueror shards and I want to do my part.

Problem is, my only decently geared (IL 17.5K) character is a DC, and I have found it a bit hard to, well...not totally suck in PvP.

I used to have a build that was semi-useful in PvP - basically an "unkillable" build - I could sit on a node and keep 2 or 3 enemy players occupied, or I could buff/heal my teammates. However, recent changes have made this build much less effective.

So, how do you not suck as a DC in PvP?
Make NWO great again, please....

Comments

  • callidus1986callidus1986 Posts: 20Member Arc User
    you wanna pvp as DC forget it this mode is DONE enjoy summer better ... very VERY disbalanced game cause right know SoD broken meta bug killed this game this is totally HAMSTER ... myself strongly no even try to PvP as DC right know trust you be in such disapoint - overall this game is dead ... good mechanics but dead game
  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 1,277Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Read the link @kalina311 put down, I put some DC tips in there.

    Many ways to dodge SoD in Mod 13, takes a bit of practice:

    1. Use Divine Armour just before it procs
    2. Hide behind a pillar (SoD requires line of sight of activate)
    3. Run far away enough (30') before it procs
    4. If you have a Lion, use its combat power
    5. If you have Shadowclad Armor enchant, if it procs before SoD procs you are in luck (as per point No.2, SoD needs line of sight to proc)
    6. You can use Ambush ring just before it procs (I tried this, and it just didn't work with my playstyle as I would be moving around constantly anyway)
    7. If you have rings of Reflex or Vision, then it will reveal the TR, hence stopping damage adding to the SoD value in that 6 seconds (I haven't tested this, but theoretically it makes sense. I'm also wondering if Lantern of Revelation would work here ...)

    Also, notice when the TR goes into stealth, they will start SoD with their first encounter, and it will proc 6 seconds after.

    Note: Dodging does NOT work to mitigate damage this mod, but it will change in the next mod. Next mod, it will deal 75% of all damage leading up to the SoD proccing while the TR is in stealth, instead of the 50% now. So potentially, if you are stunned/daze and do not dodge next mod, it will deal even more damage during this time frame. Plus, players without considerable defense/deflect will also be hit harder, I would think.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 1,277Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited May 2018
    kalina311 said:

    vordayn said:

    Read the link @kalina311 put down, I put some DC tips in there.

    Many ways to dodge SoD in Mod 13, takes a bit of practice:

    1. Use Divine Armour just before it procs
    2. Hide behind a pillar (SoD requires line of sight of activate)
    3. Run far away enough (30') before it procs
    4. If you have a Lion, use its combat power
    5. If you have Shadowclad Armor enchant, if it procs before SoD procs you are in luck (as per point No.2, SoD needs line of sight to proc)
    6. You can use Ambush ring just before it procs (I tried this, and it just didn't work with my playstyle as I would be moving around constantly anyway)
    7. If you have rings of Reflex or Vision, then it will reveal the TR, hence stopping damage adding to the SoD value in that 6 seconds (I haven't tested this, but theoretically it makes sense. I'm also wondering if Lantern of Revelation would work here ...)

    Also, notice when the TR goes into stealth, they will start SoD with their first encounter, and it will proc 6 seconds after.

    Note: Dodging does NOT work to mitigate damage this mod, but it will change in the next mod. Next mod, it will deal 75% of all damage leading up to the SoD proccing while the TR is in stealth, instead of the 50% now. So potentially, if you are stunned/daze and do not dodge next mod, it will deal even more damage during this time frame. Plus, players without considerable defense/deflect will also be hit harder, I would think.

    How are you supposed to contest a node then or 1 v 1 and/ or hold the node as a Dc against a Tr

    so all of your "solutions" rely on running away being invisible.. not contesting the node ..timing powers perfectly ..having a 10 million ads mount(usable once and then 3 more sods come your way) or being lucky enough to be on certain pvp maps that actually have pillars near the node.. or .using rings (that a player has to be lucky enough to get a +4 or +5 ) with limited windows of up time (that you cannot switch while in combat fyi and then put yourself at a disadvantage against other classes) how exactly were you able to put on a ring of ambush ( situation ally ) while in combat = impossible

    trs using ambush ring you will not notice going into stealth either and furthermore in the heat of battle always being able to count 6 seconds before sod kicks is impractical / improbable

    where / what are the offensive solutions / counters then that make the Tr uncomfortable and want to run away from you as a Dc ? how are you fighting back by doing any of what you proposed ..how does any of this do damage to the tr or put pressure on him or interrupt / mess up his rotation in any strategic way ?

    courage breaker when used with team members in tandom may be practical against the tr but solo Q in a 1 v 1 ?
    when no one gives a damm about protecting the dc ...?
    Clerics rely on good teamwork to be effective and must be able to read the battleground to see and go where they are most needed. I still find the best place for my cleric to be is either in mid, or with allies that I can buff or heal. Defensive (i.e. faithful) clerics can, at best, contest a node long enough against a TR until another team mate comes.

    Some things I do:

    - At Hotenow, when I am at the home node and holding it against a TR, you would often see me running up and down the stairs and behind pillars to escape the damn SoD procs
    - At Rivenscar, I move towards the back of the map when I know SoD is about to proc, so that I lure the TR away from the node as well; if the TR doesn't move, then I skirt the node and only run away far enough when SoD is about to proc
    - If the node is capped for blue but being contested, then you will lose a few seconds of it ticking towards your score; if it is red already, then it won't matter anyway (and you should probably be capping elsewhere if teammates aren't coming to help you)
    - If the node is blue, you should stand on the node more often then not, so overall the points go towards your team. If the TR is really good, I always aim to make sure I stay on the node long enough that it doesn't ever fully become red
    - If another few enemy players arrive, then I would be sunbursting the hell out of that node to make it only me and 1 other enemy usually, to try to keep it blue
    - If it is red it doesn't matter if you are running off the node (as the score will still tick for the opponent anyway) as long as you are engaging players and distracting them from contesting other nodes; in this scenario I aim to be an "enemy magnet" and stay alive as long as possible
    -To reiterate, clerics should always go where they are most useful, they shouldn't stay on a red node 1vs1 a TR, as the points are just going to the opponent, and you most likely won't be able to clear it without an ally, or unless you are a DPS cleric
    - For me, I've been griefed by SoD enough times that I have a sort of sense when SoD is about to proc. It's sort of the same sort of reflex one develops when shocking execution was a one shot (you hear the sound and then dodge), or when you know Smoke Bomb is going to proc and you have to dodge out of it or be ensnared. These reflexes are only built up over time I find. (Note, the only place I actually do count now, is at CODG, but it can help if you want to get used to timing)
    - If I am stun locked, courage broken, or controlled, then I pop my Oghma's token. I've also been saved more times with Gift of Faith. But the worst combination is when you are stunned AND SoD procs, because then you're stuffed

    Yes rings are RNG based, and HAMSTER to use, but when you are facing a tough opponent that uses similar items then it's fair game. Lion is out of reach of most people to be sure, and only procs once every minute, you have a good point there. I found the ambush ring unreliable to proc when you want it to, because they can still see you if you are close, so I abandoned that quickly. I have good AP gain, so I generally have a daily ready after every 1 or 2 rotations (as long as I am not stunned) to enable me to use Divine Armour so I can actually STAND on the node for those SoD procs.

    Offensive solutions are a bit trickier. If opponents are using manticore/chitters, then the best option for a cleric is chitters, as you spam encounters. HAMSTER to use, but hey, that's what PvP is like nowadays - but again depends on opponents. Break the spirit is probably one of the more useful encounters, as it helps stun, and has a DoT. Your best bet is really to engage the TR long enough until allies arrive, then you will be able to stun & debuff the enemy, and buff your team mate. I play as a DO, so I often have terrifying insight slotted, cast hallowed ground, empowered BtS, situationally placed sunbursts, and if your DPS on your team is worth their salt, they should make quick work of the TR/enemy opponent. If a tank, or a 'newbie' team mate arrives, then my aim is to keep them alive in any way possible, sometimes I even distract the TR by standing directly in front of my team mate (like a human shield to protect them, lol) along with heals, buffs and shields until the node turns blue, then your only job then is to keep it blue, and let your team mate know to go elsewhere where they can be more useful i.e. to help cap a different node.

    To the OP @adinosii, learning to play a DC in PvP currently is not the easiest class, and we are under-represented in the top pages of the Leaderboard. A lot of the skills are about timing and reflexes, which you only really gain with playing enough PvP. Watch out for the good DCs and observe and learn what they do. Even the not-so-good DCs you can learn something from. Rotate powers, class features, enchants and stats around to see whether it improves your matches and works for you. Be flexible during the match, and mix things up a bit. Some classes/players you will have no match against as they can one-rotate or wipe you out, and so try capping a different node, or buffing another team mate if things aren't going well. Playing against each class also feels different on my DC, sometimes I change encounters and class features on the fly depending on what I am up against. Being situationally aware of what is happening to your team mates, predicting where the enemies are going, and when to strategically leave nodes is also important. I'm thinking of putting up a build one day, haven't done that before, and I've respecced so many times on my DC to find out what feats work for me, and how they synergise with everything else going on.
    Post edited by vordayn on
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,938Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Thank you, @vordayn in particular, for the replies. Yes, I know DCs are not the ideal class to PvP with, but as I said, it is the only character I have that is well geared (at almost 18K right now). My poor little 10K TR doesn't stand a chance, so I just have to go with what I have, and as I said - my guild needs the conqueror shards - we are mostly PvE focused - don't have many active PvP players, and this is the only thing we are short on to max out our SH.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Posts: 256Member Arc User
    edited May 2018
    How can a class that is designed to be played in a team where players cooperate not be a sub-optimal choice, in the current PvP environment?

    You can still be useful both as a healer or a righteous DPS-er/buffer, but it all depends on who the randomness of the queuing system places in your team. What good is it to heal low-item level players that can be easily one-shot by others, for instance?

    I could suggest this though: my guild also needs conq shards at the moment. We could arrange to queue up as 2 teams of 5 and play 2 matches in the public queue (or 10+10 in GG). The first match will be for fun with a winner; in the second match we will just let the loser from the first match win. Minimal time spent for a decent number of shards. This is conditional upon shards being given for the public queue (I think it does?). If we are not in the same timezone, I am happy to put you in touch with other members of the guild that are in your zone.
    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)


    Ж Corrupted Ж
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,938Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    I could suggest this though: my guild also needs conq shards at the moment. We could arrange to queue up as 2 teams of 5 and play 2 matches in the public queue (or 10+10 in GG). The first match will be for fun with a winner; in the second match we will just let the loser from the first match win. Minimal time spent for a decent number of shards. This is conditional upon shards being given for the public queue (I think it does?). If we are not in the same timezone, I am happy to put you in touch with other members of the guild that are in your zone.

    Actually we do this somewhat regularly within the alliance...a friendly, "no-pressure", 2-round GG. It's just not enough. I am basically looking for the best way to enter a Random PvP game, and actually be at least somewhat useful to my team.

    Make NWO great again, please....
  • vordaynvordayn Posts: 1,277Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited May 2018

    How can a class that is designed to be played in a team where players cooperate not be a sub-optimal choice, in the current PvP environment?

    You can still be useful both as a healer or a righteous DPS-er/buffer, but it all depends on who the randomness of the queuing system places in your team. What good is it to heal low-item level players that can be easily one-shot by others, for instance?

    I could suggest this though: my guild also needs conq shards at the moment. We could arrange to queue up as 2 teams of 5 and play 2 matches in the public queue (or 10+10 in GG). The first match will be for fun with a winner; in the second match we will just let the loser from the first match win. Minimal time spent for a decent number of shards. This is conditional upon shards being given for the public queue (I think it does?). If we are not in the same timezone, I am happy to put you in touch with other members of the guild that are in your zone.

    It's an uphill battle when you have low-item levels on your side for sure, but with public queuing the chance is that there is also another low-item player on the opposite side. A healing cleric is the best bet that your side survives vs wiping. If you have a veteran on the opposing side that targets the low-item level players though, it is really tough. You learn to remember the names which do that, and sometimes, it's the task of the higher-item levels in the group to face-off against the other high-item level players in the opposing team so that your team has more of a chance.

    Our alliance does it sometimes too, but I wish GG would pop more often in public queuing. Those were some fun matches.
    Post edited by vordayn on
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Posts: 256Member Arc User
    vordayn said:

    How can a class that is designed to be played in a team where players cooperate not be a sub-optimal choice, in the current PvP environment?

    You can still be useful both as a healer or a righteous DPS-er/buffer, but it all depends on who the randomness of the queuing system places in your team. What good is it to heal low-item level players that can be easily one-shot by others, for instance?

    I could suggest this though: my guild also needs conq shards at the moment. We could arrange to queue up as 2 teams of 5 and play 2 matches in the public queue (or 10+10 in GG). The first match will be for fun with a winner; in the second match we will just let the loser from the first match win. Minimal time spent for a decent number of shards. This is conditional upon shards being given for the public queue (I think it does?). If we are not in the same timezone, I am happy to put you in touch with other members of the guild that are in your zone.

    It's an uphill battle when you have low-item levels on your side for sure, but with public queuing the chance is that there is also another low-item player on the opposite side. A healing cleric is the best bet that your side survives vs wiping. If you have a veteran on the opposing side that targets the low-item level players though, it is really tough. You learn to remember the names which do that, and sometimes, it's the task of the higher-item levels in the group to face-off against the other high-item level players in the opposing team so that your team has more of a chance.

    Our alliance does it sometimes too, but I wish GG would pop more often in public queuing. Those were some fun matches.
    Sure, that's why I said that a healer can still be useful; the vast majority of DCs that still do some pvp are healers. As a healer your role is keeping others alive (if you can - read SoD and burst) and holding a node perhaps. As a righteous DC (I am one) you can be more independent: you can actually kill and also capture nodes or hold them if you are not pitted against insane burst damage and use your defensive capabilities well. Add to that the potential to clear nodes faster if you have a high DPSer or two with you. It's not that one is better than the other, and you are correct in saying that healing as faithful is "cheaper" due to gift of faith, but in the context of the solo queue where communication between team members and coordination is rare I think there is value in being able to be independent and be able to contest nodes.
    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)


    Ж Corrupted Ж
  • callidus1986callidus1986 Posts: 20Member Arc User
    Sure, that's why I said that a healer can still be useful; the vast majority of DCs that still do some pvp are healers. As a healer your role is keeping others alive (if you can - read SoD and burst) and holding a node perhaps. As a righteous DC (I am one) you can be more independent: you can actually kill and also capture nodes or hold them if you are not pitted against insane burst damage and use your defensive capabilities well. Add to that the potential to clear nodes faster if you have a high DPSer or two with you. It's not that one is better than the other, and you are correct in saying that healing as faithful is "cheaper" due to gift of faith, but in the context of the solo queue where communication between team members and coordination is rare I think there is value in being able to be independent and be able to contest nodes.

    Totally disagree DO DC is good and only good 1. if he uses the right build 2. right enchants 3. a good party or something who understands 3 letters P V P .. 1 thing if compare DO and AC DC healing is survivability - dead DC useless DO has lack off healing abilities but its possible for AC healer its easer to survive ... about killing there is minor chance if ya kill unless you uberish ... DC roles is heal support kite some dmg for team and most inportant buff - if ya buff good you can beat even elites DO DC better debuffer but in survival mode has minor chances against healing DC and yes its possible to HEAL like a god just need a right build and some PvE gears and mix with PvP even with 75% healing nerf ... but like i said .... this game has 0 skill pvpers who uses broken gears its doest not matter what ya play or what build using ...
  • jjd1#9197 jjd1 Posts: 9Member Arc User
    edited May 2018
    .
  • jjd1#9197 jjd1 Posts: 9Member Arc User
    edited May 2018
    I have a healer but AC better than DO for healing too...
  • jjd1#9197 jjd1 Posts: 9Member Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Not healing but survive better .. but cannot survive the sod even AC :( What level is good to play dc healer in pvp? I am 10k
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Posts: 256Member Arc User
    edited May 2018

    Sure, that's why I said that a healer can still be useful; the vast majority of DCs that still do some pvp are healers. As a healer your role is keeping others alive (if you can - read SoD and burst) and holding a node perhaps. As a righteous DC (I am one) you can be more independent: you can actually kill and also capture nodes or hold them if you are not pitted against insane burst damage and use your defensive capabilities well. Add to that the potential to clear nodes faster if you have a high DPSer or two with you. It's not that one is better than the other, and you are correct in saying that healing as faithful is "cheaper" due to gift of faith, but in the context of the solo queue where communication between team members and coordination is rare I think there is value in being able to be independent and be able to contest nodes.

    Totally disagree DO DC is good and only good 1. if he uses the right build 2. right enchants 3. a good party or something who understands 3 letters P V P .. 1 thing if compare DO and AC DC healing is survivability - dead DC useless DO has lack off healing abilities but its possible for AC healer its easer to survive ... about killing there is minor chance if ya kill unless you uberish ... DC roles is heal support kite some dmg for team and most inportant buff - if ya buff good you can beat even elites DO DC better debuffer but in survival mode has minor chances against healing DC and yes its possible to HEAL like a god just need a right build and some PvE gears and mix with PvP even with 75% healing nerf ... but like i said .... this game has 0 skill pvpers who uses broken gears its doest not matter what ya play or what build using ...

    I am not sure who you are addressing your comments of disagreement to since they are irrelevant to what was said. Where did anyone say that DO is better than AC? Where did anyone in this thread say that it is not possible as a DC to heal well? My post above had nothing to do with who heals best, and was about how I play a righteous DC (to spell it out clearly: no healing) instead of a healer, in the solo queue especially, a queue which is boring due to no good team dynamics. I find playing as a healer just boring and the added fun and usefulness in righteous in the current environment is that you can kill/capture nodes from others. No one said that a healer cannot heal well or be useful in healing and debuffing in this thread.
    Post edited by nezdin#5514 on
    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)


    Ж Corrupted Ж
  • siegericsiegeric Posts: 41Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    On PC, if all you want is Conqueror Shards, then join (have to ask for invite from a channel admin) "BID_Up" and be sure you come as Arcane Brotherhood (AB) (you risk being kicked from the channel if you show up as TT). Channel members will call when a Black Ice Domination (BID) match is up in Icewind Pass (IWP) or Dwarven Valley (DV). It's relatively low threat, though occasionally you'll see some TT pvpers show up. Completing & winning (only have to be there for the point/node capture phase - even if you cross the zone boundary at 998 score points; you don't have to complete the mining portion of the event) a BID match satisfies the 'Fight to the Finish' quest requirement. The channel callers will usually even indicate when TT are present and the current score. The hardest parts are just ensuring you have an active contract, zoning into the proper instance, and racing to the red portion of the instance before the score phase ends. Unlike normal Domination, Glory isn't a reward, but it's much easier and you are less likely to get insta-gibbed by a TR SoD. You can even repeat on your less-geared alts.

    I've heard a rumor that there is a TT version of the channel, but I can't confirm its existence or the amount of support it receives from channel callers.
  • manipulosmanipulos Posts: 235Member Arc User
    Pretty much no one in our guild PvP's, so several of us bought a bunch of the Stronghold chests of power with zen and opened them during double shard weekend. https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Stronghold_Chest_of_Power

    I transferred AD to zen and used that to buy the chests and I think we all bought them during a 15% zen store sale, but definitely opened them during double stronghold shard event. We tried running some PvP and the Black Ice Domination thing but the time involved vs. the amount of shards received was pathetic.
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