should I go AC or Do? feel free to critique me. I'm learning still lol.

tiberiusrex

"(mcbengalsfan wrote)

Unequip your companion, go to a location where you are receiving zero buffs and see where your power is and if you are above 30K you are good to go as a AC DC; otherwise go DO. That is the simple way of looking at if you are deciding to be a AC DC or a DO. "




NOTE: this went live before I was done with it. intend to put in pics and things. I hit send by accident derp


truncated from another thread, but I thought I'd be thoroughly highjacking that thread to go in this direction there.

I did this. I went to portal of tuern and unequipped my companion my base power is 34.801 and my recovery unbuffed is 15.5 buffed 18.7

switching around defense and offense enchants I can easily get myself up to 36.2 unbuffed power. and 19k recovery. (weird. I got this result but now in practice my recovery has gone down again.

Should I be practicing as an ac instead of a do?

I'm a little torn. on one hand it would be nice to be able to switch between either easily. my Do would be a little less powerful for solo content. but it seems like there might be more pressure on me. lol. I don't like it when people micromanage. makes me not want to play. looking at these pics should I stay do or practice acdc. it is also very important to me that I am decent enough to be an alpha or beta choice instead of worse than. (and that would mean some practice of course but just based on stats at the moment. are my stats bad enough to be not a top choice for an ac but decent enough for a do or ....

as do I run with orcus set, lantern, and I was workign on all brutal 13. I had about 95 percent crit. 17k recovery and 32 power unbuffed.

even if I do switch to ac I cannot switch out my companion because I use the gear between my hr dc and cw. they all run fire. and they all will run the new companion when it's released.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvJfb0rEdWx6gTLVhlJJ8EZkEngb

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvJfb0rEdWx6gTTQYa2losS_IumF

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AvJfb0rEdWx6gTXom9z1srBXFipt

Right now as a Do I have no problems getting into very good tong runs that go from 18 minutes to 26 minutes on average. with these stats should I just stay do given tong is my primary activity at the moment? or should I be working on building radiants instead of brutals?

rjc9000

Really, why not have a loadout for each?

DO for general purpose play.
AC if you find a DO with worse base power than your own.

You should probably stay DO. DO is much more passive than AC is, allowing you to focus on running a DC rather than micromanging stuff.

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putzboy78

dailys go do

part only dc, do what you want

party two dc, just pm the other dc and coordinate, no reason to make a show of it. Should be doing that anyhow to coordinate who is using what powers.

end game dc should probably have at least 4 loadouts anyhow

solo
party only dc
party two dc - ac
party two dc - do

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vorphied

tiberiusrex#6660 said:

not sure why you'd go to the effort of having a load out for dailies as a do. changing in a few dps power and bobs ur uncle.. yah know even with my straight up 2 dc encounter load out I can still clear dailies ok without too much sweat I've done it before.

or a different load out for being solo dc. how is that going to be any different from being in a 2 dc party. you might change an encounter but you don't need a whole new load out for that.

I guess that all changes with the new dc changes you guys already have on pc?

the only thing to coordinate in a 2 dc party is who us doing ff and who is doing bts (at least on console ). if you're saying you don't look as good as me i'll be ac you are probably just being a hamster lol.

My solo and party DO loadouts are the one and the same. The same feats that are useful to me in party as DO are useful for getting daily stuff done most efficiently. There's no change I could make that would be sufficiently impactful one way or the other that two separate loadouts are required.

AC I have only one loadout that I actually use, and I play AC only in party and only if necessary. While Righteous is my tree of choice for both, AC needs to pick up the BoB and Gift of Haste feats.

AC loadout #2 has more healing feats, but I haven't really wanted or needed to use it since I was a fresh 70. Theoretically it could be useful if I needed to be a primary healer for some current or future end-game activity, but in those situations I'm either on DO and proccing Repurpose Soul heals and/or I'm partied with a Devo OP or Templock.

Daily activities are so easy after a certain item level that you can build pretty much whatever you want and get the job done.

putzboy78

tiberiusrex#6660 said:

not sure why you'd go to the effort of having a load out for dailies as a do. changing in a few dps power and bobs ur uncle.. yah know even with my straight up 2 dc encounter load out I can still clear dailies ok without too much sweat I've done it before.

cause daily dc can also be dps dc for party play (if others are playing support), but that's up to you

Why h

tiberiusrex#6660 said:

or a different load out for being solo dc. how is that going to be any different from being in a 2 dc party. you might change an encounter but you don't need a whole new load out for that.

because in a 2 dc format you don't want to have overlaping feats since they don't stack. A good example is a DO doesn't need weapons of light in a 2 dc format but a DO would want weapons of light in a 1 dc format.

tiberiusrex#6660 said:

I guess that all changes with the new dc changes you guys already have on pc?

the only thing to coordinate in a 2 dc party is who us doing ff and who is doing bts (at least on console ). if you're saying you don't look as good as me i'll be ac you are probably just being a hamster lol.

Yes on PC we already have mod 13 and the rebalance for DC powers

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vorphied

tiberiusrex#6660 said:

lol yeah I know you have the dc changes on pc what I wasn't sure of is how much it actually changes things, like what are you going to replace weapons of light with that is relevant even if it doesn't stack?

That's a neat way to sum up my position. There isn't much else that's worthwhile.

Generally it's true that there isn't a reason to keep WoL on DO, but the lack of useful alternatives, especially in the early feat tiers, makes it not worth it for me to bother having a separate loadout just to swap it. I'm actually glad for this redundant feat in Cradle since there is a solid chance that my AC partner will fall off during push/pull. Many of my clears have finished out with me as DO and 3-4 others who managed to stay on the platform.

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vorphied

tiberiusrex#6660 said:

that's a super good point. I've been in many a match where one of the dcs goes down. having some redundancy is not a bad thing. also isn't it the higher ranking wol that is used?

I should hope it wouldn't be a frequent thing, but yeah, it does happen (and it will keep happening a lot in Cradle until people learn it and the bugs get fixed). For me the occasional benefit of a "backup" WoL is at least on par with the dubious benefit of a ++healing feat that I may or may not need or notice, so I consider it a wash.

From casual observation it looks like it's as simple as the greater value WoL taking priority. My 17k+ DO has more base Power than a mid-range AC, but of course an AC of comparable ilvl should be significantly higher. If I have a great deal more Power than the other DC, I usually end up swapping. If their Power is comparatively very low, they probably don't have the Recovery and AP generation to maintain AA, anyway.

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pitshade

I switched from primarily focusing on DO to AC because I never want to play DPS DC. This mod finally led to me retiring my DPS main (CW) from endgame content. I don't want to have to worry about that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> on my cleric.

I redid my DO group loadout to get Gift of the Gods from Faithful. Campaign boons are picked for recovery and healing. I don't use a Dragonheart or Griffon and need lots of recovery.

My questing DO loadout is full Righteous with campaign boons picked for DPS.

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pitshade

My reasons for sidelining CW run deeper than the m13 changes. I have 100% crit chance so the 30%nerf isnt a net loss and I had long since purchased a feytouched. But general dissatisfaction with playing DPS with the current meta combined with how Cryptic handled the changes made me decide to just stop and concentrate only on supports for now.

mebengalsfan

putzboy78 said:

dailys go do

part only dc, do what you want

party two dc, just pm the other dc and coordinate, no reason to make a show of it. Should be doing that anyhow to coordinate who is using what powers.

end game dc should probably have at least 4 loadouts anyhow

solo
party only dc
party two dc - ac
party two dc - do

I run with plenty of high recovery AC DC that have lower power than I do. Based on your recommendations I as a DO with a base of 43K power should go without WoL when running with a DC that has a base of 35K power. That is 8K or 800 more power they get form me having that feat. Looking over the DC feats, honestly there are not any worth taking that jump out at me that say take me, take me....due to how bad DC feats are.

That aside, this allows my lazy butt to have only 2 loadouts, one for AC and one for DO.

Now my CW, that character has 3 or is it 4 loadout due to having 2 Paragon Paths and 3 paragon feat paths to create various builds. DC have two paragon paths with only one good paragon feat path.

I can understand having 3 loadouts with two AC builds. One with ByS and the other without it. You could do the same again with the DO build, but again, there are no feats that scream take me take me....for a DO.

Like I said, I'm lazy, I will stick with my current setup for now.



As for the OP, stick with AC DC when you are the lone DC. Your base power is high enough as well as your recovery to be an AC DC. It will get a bit high as you get flush out your enchantments, gear, mount equipped power, etc...

I was in your boat and my base at one point was around 29K. I am now at 43K. So it can go up.

I typically am the DO and not the AC DC. I can play both roles just fine because whatever stats I need I get through my companion. When I play DO I swap out one piece of my companion gear for companion gear on my CW. I get more crit when I do this. When I play AC I use the gear and enchantments that provide more recovery.

It is a balancing act but if you have gear to swap out it makes it easier playing both DC builds.

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micky1p00

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

putzboy78 said:

dailys go do

part only dc, do what you want

party two dc, just pm the other dc and coordinate, no reason to make a show of it. Should be doing that anyhow to coordinate who is using what powers.

end game dc should probably have at least 4 loadouts anyhow

solo
party only dc
party two dc - ac
party two dc - do

I run with plenty of high recovery AC DC that have lower power than I do. Based on your recommendations I as a DO with a base of 43K power should go without WoL when running with a DC that has a base of 35K power. That is 8K or 800 more power they get form me having that feat. Looking over the DC feats, honestly there are not any worth taking that jump out at me that say take me, take me....due to how bad DC feats are.

That aside, this allows my lazy butt to have only 2 loadouts, one for AC and one for DO.

Now my CW, that character has 3 or is it 4 loadout due to having 2 Paragon Paths and 3 paragon feat paths to create various builds. DC have two paragon paths with only one good paragon feat path.

I can understand having 3 loadouts with two AC builds. One with ByS and the other without it. You could do the same again with the DO build, but again, there are no feats that scream take me take me....for a DO.

Like I said, I'm lazy, I will stick with my current setup for now.



As for the OP, stick with AC DC when you are the lone DC. Your base power is high enough as well as your recovery to be an AC DC. It will get a bit high as you get flush out your enchantments, gear, mount equipped power, etc...

I was in your boat and my base at one point was around 29K. I am now at 43K. So it can go up.

I typically am the DO and not the AC DC. I can play both roles just fine because whatever stats I need I get through my companion. When I play DO I swap out one piece of my companion gear for companion gear on my CW. I get more crit when I do this. When I play AC I use the gear and enchantments that provide more recovery.

It is a balancing act but if you have gear to swap out it makes it easier playing both DC builds.

1. How you decided that 30k is the threshold? Usually that threshold is measured as the point where the AC reaches DO effectiveness in terms of buff, I'm not sure why you decided that 30k is it.

2. In a case where you have more base power than the other DC, why are you running DO and they AC and not the other way? It's like giving the bloody death course to a support OP (or something non DPS) while having a BiS GWF (that does their job) in a party. Sure, can be done, but why to do it?

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vorphied

On the topic of power, again, small differences in base numbers aren’t anything to get worked up about.

Also, while I’m generally a big fan of parties maximizing damage output, I think it bears mentioning that it’s not always necessary to force the other DC’s choice of path. ACs playing as DO are a bit sad, and DOs need fairly high ilvl and possibly special gear to mimic an AC adequately. I’d only press the issue if the other DC wanted to play AC and flat out couldn’t maintain AA uptime. Otherwise they can play AC if it’s more fun for them.

micky1p00

tiberiusrex#6660 said:

micky1p00 said:

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

putzboy78 said:

dailys go do

part only dc, do what you want

party two dc, just pm the other dc and coordinate, no reason to make a show of it. Should be doing that anyhow to coordinate who is using what powers.

end game dc should probably have at least 4 loadouts anyhow

solo
party only dc
party two dc - ac
party two dc - do

I run with plenty of high recovery AC DC that have lower power than I do. Based on your recommendations I as a DO with a base of 43K power should go without WoL when running with a DC that has a base of 35K power. That is 8K or 800 more power they get form me having that feat. Looking over the DC feats, honestly there are not any worth taking that jump out at me that say take me, take me....due to how bad DC feats are.

That aside, this allows my lazy butt to have only 2 loadouts, one for AC and one for DO.

Now my CW, that character has 3 or is it 4 loadout due to having 2 Paragon Paths and 3 paragon feat paths to create various builds. DC have two paragon paths with only one good paragon feat path.

I can understand having 3 loadouts with two AC builds. One with ByS and the other without it. You could do the same again with the DO build, but again, there are no feats that scream take me take me....for a DO.

Like I said, I'm lazy, I will stick with my current setup for now.



As for the OP, stick with AC DC when you are the lone DC. Your base power is high enough as well as your recovery to be an AC DC. It will get a bit high as you get flush out your enchantments, gear, mount equipped power, etc...

I was in your boat and my base at one point was around 29K. I am now at 43K. So it can go up.

I typically am the DO and not the AC DC. I can play both roles just fine because whatever stats I need I get through my companion. When I play DO I swap out one piece of my companion gear for companion gear on my CW. I get more crit when I do this. When I play AC I use the gear and enchantments that provide more recovery.

It is a balancing act but if you have gear to swap out it makes it easier playing both DC builds.

1. How you decided that 30k is the threshold? Usually that threshold is measured as the point where the AC reaches DO effectiveness in terms of buff, I'm not sure why you decided that 30k is it.

2. In a case where you have more base power than the other DC, why are you running DO and they AC and not the other way? It's like giving the bloody death course to a support OP (or something non DPS) while having a BiS GWF (that does their job) in a party. Sure, can be done, but why to do it?

regarding 2. how do you really know what the other dc's base power is? you have to unequip your companion and sit away from everyone to tell. in a typical group setting where you all land together buffs are already in effect for everyone so it's pretty impossible to tell by just looking.

also, if you're a do and generally just do.. is it not still possible that the ac will still be a better choice than you just because they are practiced in the ac rotations and you are not. (and maybe built a little better as an ac than a typical do would be) (speaking for me only, I can guarantee that without some practice first I'm going to be very bad. almost 99 percent positive even with more power I'd probably do a more half hamstered job than they would. lol. I definitely need a couple runs of anything to get non sucky at something)

and then, how do you address that with a stranger in a run without coming off as a total hamster especially with point "a" in mind? I know I would rather just run it or if they looked bad enough just bow out. pick your fights. as long as it's not a 10k power situation or something odds are the run will still go fast enough right?

people pick on the dc. it's always the dc's fault if something goes wrong (Even when it's pretty clear that it isn't that) Personally, I just don't want to be that person who is doing that to someone else.


with that in mind I see my dc roll as having a couple ways to go.

1. I'm a Do that's it. except for very very rare instances where it doesn' tmatter really.
2. I'm a AC that can go Do.

lol really that's it.

Sure, but in that post/example it were specific numbers, with the poster knowing their base power. So it's not a random situation.

In general, assuming people trying honestly to cooperate, a glance a the gear can tell who has what (out of combat) or people just say/coordinate before to decide who can play what better, at least in my expiriance. A 5k here or there is not the issue, but 15k is significant or as you said, a player who doesn't know the other path rotation, or just doesn't like to play one of the variants. All the DC I saw are coordinating among themselves what they want and who will be better at what, but again, I don't pug.

Obviously not something that works well in public queue, more so, I saw on reddit an AC DC that has power (radiants) on a companion, I've never understood this, and even asked but got no response, but I guess now I know, it's probably to provide false image of being AC of higher power, to get into groups / just look better than actually is.

putzboy78

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

putzboy78 said:

dailys go do

part only dc, do what you want

party two dc, just pm the other dc and coordinate, no reason to make a show of it. Should be doing that anyhow to coordinate who is using what powers.

end game dc should probably have at least 4 loadouts anyhow

solo
party only dc
party two dc - ac
party two dc - do

I run with plenty of high recovery AC DC that have lower power than I do. Based on your recommendations I as a DO with a base of 43K power should go without WoL when running with a DC that has a base of 35K power. That is 8K or 800 more power they get form me having that feat. Looking over the DC feats, honestly there are not any worth taking that jump out at me that say take me, take me....due to how bad DC feats are.

That aside, this allows my lazy butt to have only 2 loadouts, one for AC and one for DO.

Now my CW, that character has 3 or is it 4 loadout due to having 2 Paragon Paths and 3 paragon feat paths to create various builds. DC have two paragon paths with only one good paragon feat path.

I can understand having 3 loadouts with two AC builds. One with ByS and the other without it. You could do the same again with the DO build, but again, there are no feats that scream take me take me....for a DO.

Like I said, I'm lazy, I will stick with my current setup for now.



As for the OP, stick with AC DC when you are the lone DC. Your base power is high enough as well as your recovery to be an AC DC. It will get a bit high as you get flush out your enchantments, gear, mount equipped power, etc...

I was in your boat and my base at one point was around 29K. I am now at 43K. So it can go up.

I typically am the DO and not the AC DC. I can play both roles just fine because whatever stats I need I get through my companion. When I play DO I swap out one piece of my companion gear for companion gear on my CW. I get more crit when I do this. When I play AC I use the gear and enchantments that provide more recovery.

It is a balancing act but if you have gear to swap out it makes it easier playing both DC builds.

it was already discussed at https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1238304/whats-the-correct-2-dc-setup-for-tong-end-game. Granted over there it was based on BIS, and here that was not specified. So if we are saying not BIS, then yes trying to limit the number of loadouts could be a factor.

gromovnipljesak

neither, run away from that pleb class


on a side note, AC is generally used more overall - 2x dc and 1x dc runs, always have an AC. albeit, AC requires better gear for power share. but DO is also high in demand, and you do get 2 loadouts, so what's the hold up?

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mebengalsfan

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

putzboy78 said:

dailys go do

part only dc, do what you want

party two dc, just pm the other dc and coordinate, no reason to make a show of it. Should be doing that anyhow to coordinate who is using what powers.

end game dc should probably have at least 4 loadouts anyhow

solo
party only dc
party two dc - ac
party two dc - do

I run with plenty of high recovery AC DC that have lower power than I do. Based on your recommendations I as a DO with a base of 43K power should go without WoL when running with a DC that has a base of 35K power. That is 8K or 800 more power they get form me having that feat. Looking over the DC feats, honestly there are not any worth taking that jump out at me that say take me, take me....due to how bad DC feats are.

That aside, this allows my lazy butt to have only 2 loadouts, one for AC and one for DO.

Now my CW, that character has 3 or is it 4 loadout due to having 2 Paragon Paths and 3 paragon feat paths to create various builds. DC have two paragon paths with only one good paragon feat path.

I can understand having 3 loadouts with two AC builds. One with ByS and the other without it. You could do the same again with the DO build, but again, there are no feats that scream take me take me....for a DO.

Like I said, I'm lazy, I will stick with my current setup for now.

micky1p00 said:

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

putzboy78 said:

dailys go do

part only dc, do what you want

party two dc, just pm the other dc and coordinate, no reason to make a show of it. Should be doing that anyhow to coordinate who is using what powers.

end game dc should probably have at least 4 loadouts anyhow

solo
party only dc
party two dc - ac
party two dc - do

I run with plenty of high recovery AC DC that have lower power than I do. Based on your recommendations I as a DO with a base of 43K power should go without WoL when running with a DC that has a base of 35K power. That is 8K or 800 more power they get form me having that feat. Looking over the DC feats, honestly there are not any worth taking that jump out at me that say take me, take me....due to how bad DC feats are.

That aside, this allows my lazy butt to have only 2 loadouts, one for AC and one for DO.

Now my CW, that character has 3 or is it 4 loadout due to having 2 Paragon Paths and 3 paragon feat paths to create various builds. DC have two paragon paths with only one good paragon feat path.

I can understand having 3 loadouts with two AC builds. One with ByS and the other without it. You could do the same again with the DO build, but again, there are no feats that scream take me take me....for a DO.

Like I said, I'm lazy, I will stick with my current setup for now.



As for the OP, stick with AC DC when you are the lone DC. Your base power is high enough as well as your recovery to be an AC DC. It will get a bit high as you get flush out your enchantments, gear, mount equipped power, etc...

I was in your boat and my base at one point was around 29K. I am now at 43K. So it can go up.

I typically am the DO and not the AC DC. I can play both roles just fine because whatever stats I need I get through my companion. When I play DO I swap out one piece of my companion gear for companion gear on my CW. I get more crit when I do this. When I play AC I use the gear and enchantments that provide more recovery.

It is a balancing act but if you have gear to swap out it makes it easier playing both DC builds.

1. How you decided that 30k is the threshold? Usually that threshold is measured as the point where the AC reaches DO effectiveness in terms of buff, I'm not sure why you decided that 30k is it.

2. In a case where you have more base power than the other DC, why are you running DO and they AC and not the other way? It's like giving the bloody death course to a support OP (or something non DPS) while having a BiS GWF (that does their job) in a party. Sure, can be done, but why to do it?

When the DO was updated a bit more than a year ago the discussion around required power was around 30K for a AC to be as effective as a DO. It is a bit higher now due to the changes in bonding runestones but the damage immunity from AA can help out greatly. As a AC DC I can do HG and 2 AA before HG wears off. Than I do another HG and 2 more AA.

Using 30K power here is what is a DPS gets in power.


Player: 16500
Companion 16500 * 1.8 (for R13 bondings) = 29700

Total power that is given to a DPS is 46200.


Given that most DPS have around 50-70K power from their companion a AC DC that can pump 46K power to a DPS is very close given diminish returns on power to the 20% damage buff that a DO provides.

I personally run with GF tanks because of the AP gain I get that helps me keep AA and HG up.

That was at 30K power. The OP has 35K and that is even more he is share. The question is can he do HG and AA and keep both up. If he can, than he should play as a AC all the time unless another DC that has a AC primary build has more power than him. If he cannot keep HG and AA up, than I do recommend him playing both and figuring out which build he likes better.

I will state this, playing a DC is harder than being a DPS but easier than being a tank.

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mebengalsfan

grrouper said:

naw with act testing I think they showed that it took 55 or 65 (can't remember which) for a lone acdc to be as effective or more than a do with TI.

Seriously are you for real? Please make a video of what you claim. That just can not be done ( if it can) and still have any useful purpose in a group. Really i am sad to say this is all getting very old by you having the need to give incorrect input advice or just false claims.

How does a DC get 55 -65k base power, please explain to me how that is possible. Adding up all of the possible stats that contribute to Base Power a DC can get close to 50K with BiS and R14 enchantments and not 55-65K like you stated.

Like I explained, a year ago it was around 30K base needed for a AC build to keep up with the DO. With the changes to bonding it is higher. I don't know the currently value but it is higher and like I said, the immunity from AA does provide a benefit that a DO cannot offer. It is figuring out what is really needed in a 1 DC group - the slight bonus in buffs or a bit more protection.

Most groups I run with when I am the lone DC always want the AC build for the extra power over the 20% damage buff because I tend to run with players all running R13 or higher enchantments. If I do a random Q and see lower geared players I do run DO or run DO when grouped up with a AC DC.

As for my claim about HG and AA, it is possible with a GF Tac build as a tank, using a recovery potion, using AP Vault of Piety potion, and food. I have done plenty of T9 without a 2nd DC and I only will do that with a GF Tac Tank for the extra AP that the GF provides. Without potions my recovery with my bonding is at 23K on my AC DC build.

Losing my companion hurts my AC setup as my AP gains drop very fast and it becomes an issue keeping AA and HG up. With my companion up it is not a problem with a GF Tac Tank.

rjc9000

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

How does a DC get 55 -65k base power, please explain to me how that is possible. Adding up all of the possible stats that contribute to Base Power a DC can get close to 50K with BiS and R14 enchantments and not 55-65K like you stated.

(There, should be fixed to not include Bruenor's Helm).

Power boons taken are a max rank Barracks (8000), Sharandar (400), Dread Ring (250), Tyranny of the Dragons (400), Elemental Evil (300), Underdark (400), and 3x Power from Chult (1000). If you really wanted to tryhard mode, you could throw in 2000 from the Icewind Dale Cool boon, though I am too lazy to include it because I can't be bothered to drain my stamina before each fight.

Defense boons taken are a max rank Stables (8000), Tyranny of the Dragons (400), 1x from Omu (500)

Deflect boons taken are Sharandar (400), Tyranny of the Dragons (400), and 2x from Omu (750).

Lifesteal boons taken are a Dread Ring (400), Tyranny of the Dragons (400), Underdark (400), and Cloaked Ascendancy (500)

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