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Make refining points sharable through guild bank

muminekm#3459 muminekm Member Posts: 248 Arc User
(Idea suggested by @rainer#8575..if I tagged correctly)

There are some people with more accound/character bound RP than they need. Would be nice to be able to share it with guildmates without temporary borrowing their enchanments to fill it like now. It would work the same way gold work in guild bank - you can donate any amount and people can withdraw up to daily limit.

Also let's enable RP in personal banks. It doesn't solve any problem (like botting for RP on chars) and is only hassle for us (moving enchants around for refine).
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Comments

  • rainer#8575 rainer Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    Hmm now that you write it down like this (and you tagged me correctly) - I already see an issue with this.

    Character bound RP would be actually account bound - since alts can be in the same guild. Also - you could even "sell" the (char/account bound) RP via this mechanism. Basically it removes the bind status from RP...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    This basically provide underground RP market for 3rd party. Make many guilds, make thousands accounts, invocation. Pass RP to guild banks. Sell the guild to the buyer who can take the RP.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • dafrca#4810 dafrca Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    I would not mind seeing RP be account bound but I can just send Gems/Gear between characters now and let the receiver do the conversion. I am less sure about opening RP to cross account shares. Seems like if you want to help someone out you could just send them the Gems/Gear before you convert to RP and let them do the conversion.
  • zanaspus1zanaspus1 Member Posts: 67 Arc User

    I would not mind seeing RP be account bound but I can just send Gems/Gear between characters now and let the receiver do the conversion. I am less sure about opening RP to cross account shares. Seems like if you want to help someone out you could just send them the Gems/Gear before you convert to RP and let them do the conversion.

    But that idea isn't exploitable! /sarcasm off

  • dafrca#4810 dafrca Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    zanaspus1 said:


    But that idea isn't exploitable! /sarcasm off

    Yes, any idea that allows transfer of valuable items accross accounts is exploitable, but the transfer of items is already possable today no change to the game needed.

    I would rather they didn't make RP transferable between accounts. But that is just my opinion of course.

    EDIT: Fix Spelling :
    Post edited by dafrca#4810 on
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,083 Arc User
    Stack unbound RP items in the guild bank and you're good to go. Stack BtA RP items in shared bank slots and you're good to go.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,798 Arc User

    zanaspus1 said:


    But that idea isn't exploitable! /sarcasm off

    Yes, any idea that allows transfer of valuable items accross accounts is exploitable, but the transfer of items is already possable today no change to the game needed.

    I would rather they didn't make RP transferable between accounts. But that is just my opinion of course.

    EDIT: Fix Spelling :
    Well I agree with your opinion! This would absolutely only see those who use Guilds as Cheap Bank space exploits things even more if they had Celestial / Leadership Armies of 25-50 ALTS. Absolutely a bad way to do things...

    Besides there is nothing stopping people in guilds today to donating various unbound GEMS / Reagents to the Guild Bank today as you stated. Still it's also very rare to see people dropping a lot of Gems / Reagents into a Guild Bank; without the except of Guild Leadership, Advisor's or more senior Officer's donating either purchased or earned through Leadership to help new guild members grow.

    Besides if you just want to help Guildies grow : Just run the Stronghold : Storm the Castle (SHS) from the Master of Coin!

    Do this following a Dragon Flight / Big Heroic Encounter run; along with other daily quests. All these earn the players Guild Mark's, in addition to possibly Salvage / Companion Gear, not to mention the Blood Ruby and Purple Influence Voucher from Storming the Castle. Also Dragonflight Strongbox of Influence, Gems, Salvage, Gold, Astral Diamonds, those can be donated even without a KEY directly into the COFFER; it's just if keys are available the donation is upgraded from 1 Voucher to 4.
  • chidionchidion Member Posts: 439 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    I can't think of a single reason why character bound refinement points should be unbound, so long as when those refining points are used, they do not bind the item they are used on to bind that item to character if it previously wasn't (therein lies the rub IMO).

    Take an unbound level 5 enchantment or whatever, out of the (shared/guild) bank, use the bound to character refinement points on it and put it back into the (shared/guild) bank...

    But then realistically how may players have absolutely no use for their refinement points regardless of how they're bound - or not?

    Every player can receive an artifact sigil at around level 60 from the Vault of the Nine, and an off hand artifact at level 70 from the protector and it would probably take a ton of freebie refining points to get either one of those artifacts up to legendary status (not that it couldn’t happen I suppose).

    I think what we’re hearing is some people who have alternate characters and never plan on using or progressing those alternate characters to a level where they can ever get an artifact saying they would rather be able to use those bound refining points on a character(s) they actually play…

    If someone doesn’t like seeing all of those BtC refinement points in their inventory, take some of those alts out of the stables and play them till you get an artifact, use those refinement points until you get that artifact to legendary status, then come back and complain that refinement points are stacking up and can’t be used, traded or sold… I’ll not hold my breath for that to happen. o:)

    Actually what I’d like to see, although it probably is a little off topic, is the value of artifacts being fed into a new artifact increased significantly, since presently after all the time and effort, blood, sweat and tears of refining an artifact to higher levels, the amount of refinement points one receives for feeding it to a new artifact is (IMO) an insult.

  • dafrca#4810 dafrca Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    chidion said:

    I think what we’re hearing is some people who have alternate characters and never plan on using or progressing those alternate characters to a level where they can ever get an artifact saying they would rather be able to use those bound refining points on a character(s) they actually play…

    While I think you might be correct in some cases, I will share I started trying to work on more than one character at a time and keep them about the same levels while doing it. Several times I would have liked to be able to share points so they all made it to Epic on their weapon or neck etc at about the same time. So I did send gems back and forth as they needed them. But I suspect I might be the exception in that rather than the rule. :)

  • chidionchidion Member Posts: 439 Arc User
    edited March 2018

    chidion said:

    I think what we’re hearing is some people who have alternate characters and never plan on using or progressing those alternate characters to a level where they can ever get an artifact saying they would rather be able to use those bound refining points on a character(s) they actually play…

    While I think you might be correct in some cases, I will share I started trying to work on more than one character at a time and keep them about the same levels while doing it. Several times I would have liked to be able to share points so they all made it to Epic on their weapon or neck etc at about the same time. So I did send gems back and forth as they needed them. But I suspect I might be the exception in that rather than the rule. :)

    Not so much an exception I think, just a difference in play style and we all have them...

    I have an account now with many alternate characters. At one time I too wanted to try to level them up equally but gave up on that notion long ago since different groups call for (IMO) different classes of characters to make a "well balanced party" (admittedly an old school D&D notion but one I still prefer) and some characters were being used more or less frequently than others.

    What would have been the greatest benefit in my opinion would have been being able to pass hand-me-down armor and weapons from one character of the same class to another - but then of course that isn't possible because most equipped items are bound to character instead of bound to account.

    I will again uselessly repeat my most common complaint - that waaaaay too many items are bound to character, BtC when in my opinion it would make more sense for them being bound to account BtA... but then I always feel like I'm whistling into the wind when I try to express that opinion.
  • chidionchidion Member Posts: 439 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Make refinement points shareable through account shared bank account too!
    Post edited by chidion on
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,141 Arc User
    chidion said:

    Make refinement points shareable through account shared bank account too!

    This has been suggested before, but there was a dev response saying some RP was character bound for a reason.

    What you'd need is the ability to crunch account bound and unbound RP into a central account RP bank, while the character bound stuff stays character bound and is used first.
  • chidionchidion Member Posts: 439 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    After further deliberation it doesn't make any sense to me for RP to be character bound especially with so many items capable of being refined, bound to character.

    If a character can't use the refinement points and if a character on the same account needs the points, why shouldn't one member of the same account be able to share refinement points with another one of their characters on the same account?

    The same for guilds, if a guild member has the gear they want and that gear is maxed so far as refining is concerned, why shouldn't one member of a guild be able to donate spare refinement points to someone else in the same guild?

    The end result is, by doing so it helps everyone in the guild/account to play more efficiently and isn't that what guilds and multiple character accounts are supposed to be all about, having characters that can help other characters to make the game more enjoyable?

    Just my 2¢
    Post edited by chidion on
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,141 Arc User
    chidion said:

    After further deliberation it doesn't make any sense to me for RP to be character bound especially with so many items capable of being refined, bound to character.

    If a character can't use the refinement points and if a character on the same account needs the points, why shouldn't one member of the same account be able to share refinement points with another one of their characters on the same account?

    The same for guilds, if a guild member has the gear they want and that gear is maxed so far as refining is concerned, why shouldn't one member of a guild be able to donate spare refinement points to someone else in the same guild?

    The end result is, by doing so it helps everyone in the guild/account to play more efficiently and isn't that what guilds and multiple character accounts are supposed to be all about, having characters that can help other characters to make the game more enjoyable?

    Just my 2¢

    Can't happen because it's a massive gain for people with hundreds of characters that just invoke and could be horribly abused.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    This basically provide underground RP market for 3rd party. Make many guilds, make thousands accounts, invocation. Pass RP to guild banks. Sell the guild to the buyer who can take the RP.

    I'd rather see ppl selling guilds that they worked to build up, than guilds they stole from other players...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited August 2018

    This basically provide underground RP market for 3rd party. Make many guilds, make thousands accounts, invocation. Pass RP to guild banks. Sell the guild to the buyer who can take the RP.

    I'd rather see ppl selling guilds that they worked to build up, than guilds they stole from other players...
    Hmmm! The guild I talked about has absolutely nothing to be built up except filling with RP (based on the 'proposal'). Just consider that as a big inventory bag and nothing else.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    This basically provide underground RP market for 3rd party. Make many guilds, make thousands accounts, invocation. Pass RP to guild banks. Sell the guild to the buyer who can take the RP.

    I'd rather see ppl selling guilds that they worked to build up, than guilds they stole from other players...
    Hmmm! The guild I talked about has absolutely nothing to be built up except filling with RP (based on the 'proposal'). Just consider that as a big inventory bag and nothing else.
    It costs AD to open the bank...

    It takes time & effort to grind the RP...
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    I have 4 guild banks, with a total 2 storage panes each. I can and do toss in RP (green equipment 68-70, gems, etc..) so HOW is RP not shared in a guild bank? The only RP items that cannot be placed in the GB is account/character bound. Unfortunately this sounds like you want an army of alts to collect RP and pass it off to your main, or as it has been suggested, sell it for real money. I would not anticipate the developers adding that as a feature in the future.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited August 2018

    This basically provide underground RP market for 3rd party. Make many guilds, make thousands accounts, invocation. Pass RP to guild banks. Sell the guild to the buyer who can take the RP.

    I'd rather see ppl selling guilds that they worked to build up, than guilds they stole from other players...
    Hmmm! The guild I talked about has absolutely nothing to be built up except filling with RP (based on the 'proposal'). Just consider that as a big inventory bag and nothing else.
    It costs AD to open the bank...

    It takes time & effort to grind the RP...
    What OP suggested was to put RP to the guild bank. When he said RP, he mean RP and not RP items.
    He wanted to donate RP like donating gold to the guild bank. That does not need any inventory space.
    I can be wrong but I believe the guild comes with a basic guild bank without inventory slot but it can store gold.
    If you need to unlock repository, you need AD but in this case, it does not need repository.
    What he proposed should not need to cost any AD to store RP.

    For 'grinding' the RP, bot can do invocation and can have many bots.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • chidionchidion Member Posts: 439 Arc User
    edited August 2018

    I have 4 guild banks, with a total 2 storage panes each. I can and do toss in RP (green equipment 68-70, gems, etc..) so HOW is RP not shared in a guild bank? The only RP items that cannot be placed in the GB is account/character bound. Unfortunately this sounds like you want an army of alts to collect RP and pass it off to your main, or as it has been suggested, sell it for real money. I would not anticipate the developers adding that as a feature in the future.

    A very good point and one I hadn't considered. So in essence we already have the ability to share refinement points with other characters in our account and guilds, even if it in a limited fashion and even if it does require some bank inventory space to accomplish it.

    People have offered insight on how something like this could be exploited by some and although this is something I hadn't considered until now, I do see how it would be possible.

    Perhaps a system to facilitate the sharing of refinement points, aside from the ones we already have, isn't such a good suggestion after all.
  • muminekm#3459 muminekm Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    Uh, the old thread revived. Yeah after thinking about this I come to conclusion that I can always share RP items and any account wide storage for RP (be it in bank or guild bank) could be overused. I still would want it (so I don't need to plan ahead where to convert my items for example) but I realize its drawbacks.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    No to the idea of sharing refinement points via the guild bank. I don't see a problem making refinement points that are BTC available to all the characters on that same account. However, if you make it possible to share all these refinement points with guild mates - directly as refinement points and not as items to convert to refinement points - then that will throw the entire system out of whack. It would also be somewhat unfair to those players who either cannot or do not want to get into a guild.

    Besides, there are already ways to help your guild mates with refining points. The primary method is called "Leadership". It works like this:
    1. Do the Leadership task called "Guard Clerics of Ilmater" and/or "Escort a Wizard's Seneschal".
    2. Open the bags you get from step #1.
    3. Deposit the gems into the guild bank.

    The secondary method is called "Get a mount with the Wanderer's Fortune insignia bonus". It works like this:
    1. Put a crescent insignia, a regal insignia, and an illuminated insignia all on the same mount.
    2. Kill stuff and get gems.
    3. Deposit the gems into the guild bank.

    The third method is called "Give me your enchantment and I'll fill it with refinement points". It works like this:
    1. Guild mate trades an unbound enchantment to you.
    2. You open the refining window on the enchantment.
    3. Move the slider as close to the right end of the bar as possible without actually filling the bar completely up.*
    4. You trade the enchantment back to your guild mate.
    * Step #3 usually results in the guild mate having to spend <200 refinement points of their own to complete the refinement.

    The fourth method is called "I'll put unbound green and blue gear in the guild bank". It works like this:
    1. Open the guild bank.
    2. Optional: Identify any green and blue non-artifact gear you've found.
    3. Put in any green and blue non-artifact gear you've found.
    4. Close the guild bank.

    If people can't be bothered to do any of that, then there's no reason to make this even easier for them. There's also no reason to expect they'd be bothered to withdraw refinement points from the guild bank.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited August 2018

    No to the idea of sharing refinement points via the guild bank. I don't see a problem making refinement points that are BTC available to all the characters on that same account. However, if you make it possible to share all these refinement points with guild mates - directly as refinement points and not as items to convert to refinement points - then that will throw the entire system out of whack. It would also be somewhat unfair to those players who either cannot or do not want to get into a guild.

    Besides, there are already ways to help your guild mates with refining points. The primary method is called "Leadership". It works like this:
    1. Do the Leadership task called "Guard Clerics of Ilmater" and/or "Escort a Wizard's Seneschal".
    2. Open the bags you get from step #1.
    3. Deposit the gems into the guild bank.

    The secondary method is called "Get a mount with the Wanderer's Fortune insignia bonus". It works like this:
    1. Put a crescent insignia, a regal insignia, and an illuminated insignia all on the same mount.
    2. Kill stuff and get gems.
    3. Deposit the gems into the guild bank.

    The third method is called "Give me your enchantment and I'll fill it with refinement points". It works like this:
    1. Guild mate trades an unbound enchantment to you.
    2. You open the refining window on the enchantment.
    3. Move the slider as close to the right end of the bar as possible without actually filling the bar completely up.*
    4. You trade the enchantment back to your guild mate.
    * Step #3 usually results in the guild mate having to spend <200 refinement points of their own to complete the refinement.

    The fourth method is called "I'll put unbound green and blue gear in the guild bank". It works like this:
    1. Open the guild bank.
    2. Optional: Identify any green and blue non-artifact gear you've found.
    3. Put in any green and blue non-artifact gear you've found.
    4. Close the guild bank.

    If people can't be bothered to do any of that, then there's no reason to make this even easier for them. There's also no reason to expect they'd be bothered to withdraw refinement points from the guild bank.</p>

    First method: you can donate but you may as well just mail to the guildee who needs help.
    Second method: does not work well because it is account bound except black pearl, pearl and amethyst. Even a whole stack, it is a drop of the bucket.
    Third method: highly not recommended. There is always a trust issue.
    Forth method: you may just mail it so that the 'expensive' guild slot won't be wasted by an unstackable 50 RP item. You don't need to carry the item and go to a guild bank which is not part of VIP.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    I have only been back playing the game for a couple weeks now, but one thing I've noticed... getting RP is simply not a problem. I have 20 toons with 25 leadership, but I haven't opened ONE BOX from them in all this time. My main gets plenty of RP from just straight up doing content. I convert every gem and every trash drop I can identify (no issue with running out of scrolls either, I might add), and RP has never been my limiting factor in getting my gear and/or enchantments upgraded.

    I support the idea of bankable RP - but not in the guild bank. However, likely such a mechanic would be introduced only if an account-wide limit on RP is put in like what happened with AD, and I don't think that is necessary since you can just feed RP to alts via the shared bank (less character-bound RP items which are actually fairly rare anyway).

    Slightly off topic, but related to the guild bank: it should have bankable AD though for only guilds to share the cost of opening bank slots. Withdrawals should never be allowed, not even for guildmasters (to prevent abuse), and once all slots are open, the AD bank option should be disabled for that guild.
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    kvet said:

    Slightly off topic, but related to the guild bank: it should have bankable AD though for only guilds to share the cost of opening bank slots. Withdrawals should never be allowed, not even for guildmasters (to prevent abuse), and once all slots are open, the AD bank option should be disabled for that guild.

    This would be nice. It would let people contribute to opening guild repositories over time.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,184 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    kvet said:


    Slightly off topic, but related to the guild bank: it should have bankable AD though for only guilds to share the cost of opening bank slots. Withdrawals should never be allowed, not even for guildmasters (to prevent abuse), and once all slots are open, the AD bank option should be disabled for that guild.

    Yes, a hard AD cap limit to the total cost of opening all 'remaining' repositories similar to SH coffer to add building.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    This basically provide underground RP market for 3rd party. Make many guilds, make thousands accounts, invocation. Pass RP to guild banks. Sell the guild to the buyer who can take the RP.

    I'd rather see ppl selling guilds that they worked to build up, than guilds they stole from other players...
    Hmmm! The guild I talked about has absolutely nothing to be built up except filling with RP (based on the 'proposal'). Just consider that as a big inventory bag and nothing else.
    It costs AD to open the bank...

    It takes time & effort to grind the RP...
    What OP suggested was to put RP to the guild bank. When he said RP, he mean RP and not RP items.
    He wanted to donate RP like donating gold to the guild bank. That does not need any inventory space.
    I can be wrong but I believe the guild comes with a basic guild bank without inventory slot but it can store gold.
    If you need to unlock repository, you need AD but in this case, it does not need repository.
    What he proposed should not need to cost any AD to store RP.

    For 'grinding' the RP, bot can do invocation and can have many bots.
    Heh. Somebody hit me with the +5 Derp Stick... I thought he was talking about the RP items themselves...
  • chidionchidion Member Posts: 439 Arc User
    kvet said:


    Slightly off topic, but related to the guild bank: it should have bankable AD though for only guilds to share the cost of opening bank slots. Withdrawals should never be allowed, not even for guildmasters (to prevent abuse), and once all slots are open, the AD bank option should be disabled for that guild.

    I totally agree and think this suggestion is IMO deserving of it's own thread.

    Allow guild members to donate Astral Diamonds into the Guild Bank, donate but with no means by any guild rank to withdraw toward the purchase of the next guild bank slot... when all possible bank slots have been purchased, close the donate feature so no AD's will be wasted.

    I hope this will be something the game developers give some serious consideration to...

    Thoughts?
  • nunya#5309 nunya Member Posts: 933 Arc User
    chidion said:

    kvet said:


    Slightly off topic, but related to the guild bank: it should have bankable AD though for only guilds to share the cost of opening bank slots. Withdrawals should never be allowed, not even for guildmasters (to prevent abuse), and once all slots are open, the AD bank option should be disabled for that guild.

    I totally agree and think this suggestion is IMO deserving of it's own thread.

    Allow guild members to donate Astral Diamonds into the Guild Bank, donate but with no means by any guild rank to withdraw toward the purchase of the next guild bank slot... when all possible bank slots have been purchased, close the donate feature so no AD's will be wasted.

    I hope this will be something the game developers give some serious consideration to...

    Thoughts?
    Even better is that as each repository is affordable, it should simply auto-purchase. It shouldn't require intervention from anyone of a particular rank to cause this to happen, especially since that is the only purpose for which astral diamonds could be put into the guild bank.
  • someonediessomeonedies Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    U may transfer any amount of RP. Just burn press ward and refine enchant.
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