To the Devs : State of the game by players - Part 1: PVP

isssssho

Ok, so I watched the state of the game stream - and honestly I wasn't very thrilled. So I will try to elaborate the current situation and my view on the possible solutions - trying to find balance between the wishes of community, effort needed to implement those, server capabilities and difficulty of coding.

We are all aware that for the past few mods less and less people have been showing interest in PVP aspect of the game. Reasons for it are multiple, and I'll try to address some while avoiding class balance ones as this is touchy topic and I don't think I can say something that is already not known on this topic.

1. Content - Neverwinter PVP has not received decent Pvp update in more than last few mods. Last content update to Pvp was in mod 7 where you introduced stronghold siege - and on paper it was a good idea - 3 lane MOBA style map with lane control and junglers was good idea but it stopped there. Server couldn't handle it and that was the death of it. Lesson learned I hope - no more 40 player maps, therefore lets stay on the verified stuff - good old 5v5. New maps are not as needed as new mods and even though I know it requires a lot of work I believe many players would be happy to see new mods like : - 1 lane 5v5 pvp with towers
- Assault (domination like points that need to be capped but at far slower rate than current domination ones - time limited)
- Escort (not very optimistic about implementation of this due to coding since game doesnt support anything similar so far)
- Control (1 large domination point capped at slower pace where teams fight until one reaches certain time of control and clears out point)

I'm sure everyone understands that this would take enormous amount of effort so it would be nice to have Pvp only dedicated mod or implement it over the time of few mods.

2. Competitiveness - Everyone wants their name seen and acknowledged as one of the best in what they do - current leaderboard is near to useless so I would advice making a ranked leaderboard:
- Every mod is a start of a season:
- When season begins all players start with 5000 points but ones who didn't do single match are not displayed at all until they do their first match.
- Ranked games only affect changes in leaderboard points - losing a game takes away points you had and winning gives you more points. Max amount of points a player can get is 10000. Players with 8000 points or more must do at least a game per day or they lose 20 points on days they did not play at least 1 ranked match. How many points in a single game you win or lose depends on your placement at the end of the match. every player on the winning team gets 10 points + 2 more for every place above the middle of scoreboard placement and -2 for every place below middle of scoreboard.

3. Rewards - one of the reasons for lack of interest in PVP is also a bad rewarding system - Pvp match takes a decent amount of time and things you can buy with glory aside from gear are not very useful or wanted in particular.
I suggest adding new currency (call it currency X for now). Currency X is obtained in 2 ways:
- ranked matches - 0 for loss (taking care of bots), and 3 for win + extra 1 for first 3 places on scoreboard.
- By standing on the first (enter number here) places of ranked leaderboard every day those players get some amount of X-es for holding their position.
Now add another vendor with stuff that can be bought with this gear.
I advice following type of stuff:
- 1 enchanted key ( 50X-es)
- 1 Legendary key ( 25-30X-es)
- Choice of BOA epic companions (700X-es)
- Choice of BOA epic mounts (350-400X-es)
- Legendary BOA Armored Champions Bulette (10000X-es)
- Various refinement, reinforcement kits, companion upgrade tokens, unique transmutes, titles, profession resources etc.

The idea behind the currency and pricing of items is that earning from PVP should stay lower than earning from PVE but still be far better than they are now in terms of rewards. It should be primary played for fun, prestige and glory among other players and profit comes in only second.

4. Matchmaking - nobody likes losing all the time but nobody should win all the time either - and to ahhieve maximum competitiveness among players an efficient matchmaking system must be made.
Players ratings should be distributed from 1000 points (min) to 10000 points (max). Once a player queues for a match the system starts finding players of same rating - as the time passes the rating that is acceptable to enter the game spreads slowly from that player rating to both sides (higher and lower values). Once 10 players are found within certain rating range (withing 6547-6845 for example) they are pulled into match. Now players are distributed to the teams so that the sum of both team ratings is as close to equal as possible. Due to the specific queue system for start I would disable party queueing (only solo queueing) to avoid premades until the proper solution is made for those kind of players.

I kinda feel like I forgot something but oh well...

rjc9000

isssssho said:

- Escort (not very optimistic about implementation of this due to coding since game doesnt support anything similar so far)

Escort the payload!

The Protector's Speech thing in the SH is one long escort mission and sort of works like what you're looking at.
The Engineer from Merchant Prince's Folly stops when enemies are nearby and is also an escort mission.

The devs could possibly repurpose the code for these instances for a PvP match.

callumf

Yes some good points - to put it simply make pvp something people WANT to do by giving them half decent rewards is probably the most important issue. Armour Kits is a good example

callumf

I would also like to see the concepts of Ice Wind Dale pvp areas worked on. Have a pvp map with a central castle and various locations which when captured release really useful nodes and buffs/debuffs. SO that there are raids on enemy camps, castles etc etc. I pvped in LOTRO exclusively for two years and it was so much more fun than any PVE. We had 100 v 100 battles which crashed the server and regular 25 v 25 battles which were epic fights. I would love to see something like that in NW

snotty

I disagree with most of the OPs post. From everyone I've talked to, the reason they don't want to pvp is the pvpers. It's been this way for too long. Premades simply steam rolling everyone just isn't fun but hey, winning every match with little effort wasn't enough for them so they began to troll the losing team by camping outside the campfire so they could kill them as soon as they spawned.

I wish I could say that this was just a problem in this game alone but lets be real, it happens in pretty much every game. I played perfect world for 6 years before switching to this game. When I start perfect world they had 3 pve servers and 3 pvp servers. Well on the pvp servers once you hit level 30 it was open season on you. level 100s camping outside of the city just waiting for anyone regardless of level to come out and BAM, you were dead.

What made it so bad in that game was the fact that you also lost exp and gold which are much harder to gain then in this game. So many people left the pvp server and switched to the pve server and the last time I looked there is now only 1 pvp server as there wasn't enough players on the servers to justify keeping 3 servers open so they combined them all into 1 server.

And of course the irony is always the same, the pvpers on the forums complaining that no one wants to pvp. Well you chose to be bullies and now no one wants to lay with you, whos fault is that?.

The really sad part was when I joined this game pvp was actually fun. I won sometimes, lost other times. But generally the players were cool to the other teams. If you were winning by a large amount you'd let the other team gain some points so it wasn't a total waste of their time. Cant think of the last time I've hard anyone doing that.

isssssho

Well, it is natural that nobody likes losing and premades are legit problem for the rest of the Pvp community because stomping is not pleasurable experience and it makes some players give up on Pvp. That's why I made point 4 - matchmaking. Another important thing there is allowing only solo queueing to increase amount of content players after the match - since match made that way should near to always be a close one. It would affect players who want to queue with friends, but hey they can zerg and hope to be teamed on same match / team.

Pvp is a major part of a game and IMO should represent around 30-40% of every game, while at the moment its not even 10% of Neverwinter. Some players get tired of PVE and playing 3 same dungeons all day long so they would maybe like to invest some time in Pvp but the state of Pvp is bad at current point in time and very unrewarding.

In mod 5 or 6 (can't remember) there was something called Neverwinter Combat League which was a great step forward for PVP community and it had good concept of how to progress, but for to us unknown reasons it lived one season only and died afterwards - without a single word of explanation from the devs why did that happen.

quickfoot

I just started PVP as CW, I kind of enjoy it, except for the lack of class balance in PVP. My biggest beef, a similarly geared GF, OP, or TR will kill me, almost no matter what. On the other had, other classes (similarly geared) can be quite a challenge if they're experienced with their class and pretty fun to go up against.

The 3 most overpowered classes in PVP in personal experience (almost all use the same cookiecutter rotations as each other):

GF: Shield until close enough -> Bull Charge -> 2-3x Griffons wrath, I'm dead. (I actually saw one GF that was a true tank though, that was fun, hint: flank them)

OP: has a few different rotations, but eventually they drop the Divine Judgment, smite, or even their at-will can kill me if they stun me and get me low on stamina. If I manage to get their health down even half way, all they have to do is shield, and they heal themselves, or cleansing touch, and it's just a joke on me. (Was on a team with a healadin, once, very unexpected).

TR: I think everyone knows, smoke bomb, blood bath or courage breaker, stack some SoD, run away, I'm dead and couldn't do HAMSTER about it unless I had a t.elven or something. (These guys are always cancer regardless of the feat path they take, their movability is unparalleled).

Furthermore, all three of these classes, plus a few others, have means to become CC immune on top of the CC nerf recently put in place (not to mention t.elven). So, what do I have left? Do damage and debuff. Ok, but I can't kill these classes w/ one rotation except maybe a TR if they don't use impossible to catch (or are way under-geared compared to me or just suck). However, 9/10 of the players who use these classes can kill me in 1,2, 3.

My opinion on how they can fix PVP is:

1) balance classes on a one by one basis, power by power. No blanket fixes that affect each class differently. If we have CC immunity from environment, do they really need powers to give them that in PVP? The duration of immunity these powers give should be greatly reduced in PVP, much like the duration of CC powers are. Then, there are classes that have powers which do enough damage to kill other players in one rotation, they should not have so much defense that other players can't do the same to them. Perfect example is the CW vs GF, GF is just in a different league all together. Either reduce their defensive capabilities in PVP, or the amount of damage those powers do in PVP, don't just reduce the damage everyone does, that doesn't solve the problem at all, it may actually make it worse. Just look at the leaderboards and compare the Kills/Death ratios of various classes on average. The imbalance between classes is plain to see.

2) a few more maps and content/match styles would go a long way. What we have now, basically caters to tanky classes, even some of the best CW's I've seen around, build their toons to be as tanky as possible.

Also, I really hate how rooted I get when using my at-wills as a CW, zero movability. I really think I should be able to sidestep a bit while casting ray of frost on someone, kinda like dreadtheft on SW.

Other than getting slaughtered in PVP by these 3 classes, I really do enjoy it, balancing the classes to a point where each class actually required skill to play and maps which required team tactics to win, would go a long way to increasing it's enjoyability, and possibly bring more players to it. Though, possibly the worst part, is some of the players themselves, are just jerks. Again, balance would put them in their place and shut them the HAMSTER up.

I know OP said he was going to ignore balance in his post, but I really think it's that important to the state of PVP in this game.

chiennedeluxe

They can start with something eazy like 3v3 team deathmatch arena, last team standing win no rez allowed.

madmatter

I think the best reward they could offer is permanent overload enchants that you can only earn in PvP. You could also make them able to be refined. That would pull in PvP players to give it a shot as well, imo.

madmatter

Sorry. That would pull in PvE players

kalina311

we really could use your feedback guys in the pvp section where a lot of these topics are covered including rewards matchmaking and the new pvp with the devs


https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/categories/pvp-discussion-pc


P.S there are no more 5v5 pvp premades only solo Q on Pc

therealprotex

quickfoot#7851 said:

My opinion on how they can fix PVP is:

1) balance classes on a one by one basis, power by power. No blanket fixes that affect each class differently. If we have CC immunity from environment, do they really need powers to give them that in PVP? The duration of immunity these powers give should be greatly reduced in PVP, much like the duration of CC powers are. Then, there are classes that have powers which do enough damage to kill other players in one rotation, they should not have so much defense that other players can't do the same to them. Perfect example is the CW vs GF, GF is just in a different league all together. Either reduce their defensive capabilities in PVP, or the amount of damage those powers do in PVP, don't just reduce the damage everyone does, that doesn't solve the problem at all, it may actually make it worse. Just look at the leaderboards and compare the Kills/Death ratios of various classes on average. The imbalance between classes is plain to see.

2) a few more maps and content/match styles would go a long way. What we have now, basically caters to tanky classes, even some of the best CW's I've seen around, build their toons to be as tanky as possible.

Also, I really hate how rooted I get when using my at-wills as a CW, zero movability. I really think I should be able to sidestep a bit while casting ray of frost on someone, kinda like dreadtheft on SW.

Other than getting slaughtered in PVP by these 3 classes, I really do enjoy it, balancing the classes to a point where each class actually required skill to play and maps which required team tactics to win, would go a long way to increasing it's enjoyability, and possibly bring more players to it. Though, possibly the worst part, is some of the players themselves, are just jerks. Again, balance would put them in their place and shut them the HAMSTER up.

I know OP said he was going to ignore balance in his post, but I really think it's that important to the state of PVP in this game.

In my opinion, there is one absolutely necessary thing that has to be done before everything else: separate PvP from PvE completely.

After that, balance the classes for PvE and re-invent PvP.

That means a lot of work, work that can not be put into new (PvE-)content, so I guess it will never happen.

feanor70118

I disagree that the PVE and PVP communities should be separated. I don't see the slightlest reason for that and really, I think the game should be looking to return to a mod 2-ish state where, since mod 6+ power creep hadn't happened and the devs hadn't yet begun experimenting by making one class and then another broken beyond belief, it was possible to enjoy casual pvp and succeed at it. (Also, PVE content was challenging but not ridiculously demanding and didn't require exploits for endgame content then, but that's another discussion)

On the off chance that the devs are going to address pvp issues again any time soon, this should probably be merged with macjae's thread.

chidion

Well since this is a "state of the game from the player's perspective" I only have one thing to offer...

If I were the Lord Protector of Neverwinter, I'd be firing a bunch of maintenance and repair NPC's since they've had the scaffolding up and working on the same places for nearly 5-years now, without appearing to make any progress on their repair efforts... that's it...

mimicking

isssssho said:

Ok, so I watched the state of the game stream - and honestly I wasn't very thrilled. So I will try to elaborate the current situation and my view on the possible solutions - trying to find balance between the wishes of community, effort needed to implement those, server capabilities and difficulty of coding.

We are all aware that for the past few mods less and less people have been showing interest in PVP aspect of the game. Reasons for it are multiple, and I'll try to address some while avoiding class balance ones as this is touchy topic and I don't think I can say something that is already not known on this topic.

1. Content - Neverwinter PVP has not received decent Pvp update in more than last few mods. Last content update to Pvp was in mod 7 where you introduced stronghold siege - and on paper it was a good idea - 3 lane MOBA style map with lane control and junglers was good idea but it stopped there. Server couldn't handle it and that was the death of it. Lesson learned I hope - no more 40 player maps, therefore lets stay on the verified stuff - good old 5v5. New maps are not as needed as new mods and even though I know it requires a lot of work I believe many players would be happy to see new mods like : - 1 lane 5v5 pvp with towers
- Assault (domination like points that need to be capped but at far slower rate than current domination ones - time limited)
- Escort (not very optimistic about implementation of this due to coding since game doesnt support anything similar so far)
- Control (1 large domination point capped at slower pace where teams fight until one reaches certain time of control and clears out point)

I'm sure everyone understands that this would take enormous amount of effort so it would be nice to have Pvp only dedicated mod or implement it over the time of few mods.

2. Competitiveness - Everyone wants their name seen and acknowledged as one of the best in what they do - current leaderboard is near to useless so I would advice making a ranked leaderboard:
- Every mod is a start of a season:
- When season begins all players start with 5000 points but ones who didn't do single match are not displayed at all until they do their first match.
- Ranked games only affect changes in leaderboard points - losing a game takes away points you had and winning gives you more points. Max amount of points a player can get is 10000. Players with 8000 points or more must do at least a game per day or they lose 20 points on days they did not play at least 1 ranked match. How many points in a single game you win or lose depends on your placement at the end of the match. every player on the winning team gets 10 points + 2 more for every place above the middle of scoreboard placement and -2 for every place below middle of scoreboard.

3. Rewards - one of the reasons for lack of interest in PVP is also a bad rewarding system - Pvp match takes a decent amount of time and things you can buy with glory aside from gear are not very useful or wanted in particular.
I suggest adding new currency (call it currency X for now). Currency X is obtained in 2 ways:
- ranked matches - 0 for loss (taking care of bots), and 3 for win + extra 1 for first 3 places on scoreboard.
- By standing on the first (enter number here) places of ranked leaderboard every day those players get some amount of X-es for holding their position.
Now add another vendor with stuff that can be bought with this gear.
I advice following type of stuff:
- 1 enchanted key ( 50X-es)
- 1 Legendary key ( 25-30X-es)
- Choice of BOA epic companions (700X-es)
- Choice of BOA epic mounts (350-400X-es)
- Legendary BOA Armored Champions Bulette (10000X-es)
- Various refinement, reinforcement kits, companion upgrade tokens, unique transmutes, titles, profession resources etc.

The idea behind the currency and pricing of items is that earning from PVP should stay lower than earning from PVE but still be far better than they are now in terms of rewards. It should be primary played for fun, prestige and glory among other players and profit comes in only second.

4. Matchmaking - nobody likes losing all the time but nobody should win all the time either - and to ahhieve maximum competitiveness among players an efficient matchmaking system must be made.
Players ratings should be distributed from 1000 points (min) to 10000 points (max). Once a player queues for a match the system starts finding players of same rating - as the time passes the rating that is acceptable to enter the game spreads slowly from that player rating to both sides (higher and lower values). Once 10 players are found within certain rating range (withing 6547-6845 for example) they are pulled into match. Now players are distributed to the teams so that the sum of both team ratings is as close to equal as possible. Due to the specific queue system for start I would disable party queueing (only solo queueing) to avoid premades until the proper solution is made for those kind of players.

I kinda feel like I forgot something but oh well...

Great feedback! Sorry I could not touch upon all aspects of NW during the stream, but PvP is dear to me (I'm one of the ranking players when we have team matches )- and something that is on our list for more love. I don't forsee any dedicated servers or mods, but leaderboards are on the list for updating, as well as a few other things.
Thanks again for taking the time for this feedback.
Regards,
M.K.

theguiido

mimicking#6533 said:

isssssho said:

Ok, so I watched the state of the game stream - and honestly I wasn't very thrilled. So I will try to elaborate the current situation and my view on the possible solutions - trying to find balance between the wishes of community, effort needed to implement those, server capabilities and difficulty of coding.

We are all aware that for the past few mods less and less people have been showing interest in PVP aspect of the game. Reasons for it are multiple, and I'll try to address some while avoiding class balance ones as this is touchy topic and I don't think I can say something that is already not known on this topic.

1. Content - Neverwinter PVP has not received decent Pvp update in more than last few mods. Last content update to Pvp was in mod 7 where you introduced stronghold siege - and on paper it was a good idea - 3 lane MOBA style map with lane control and junglers was good idea but it stopped there. Server couldn't handle it and that was the death of it. Lesson learned I hope - no more 40 player maps, therefore lets stay on the verified stuff - good old 5v5. New maps are not as needed as new mods and even though I know it requires a lot of work I believe many players would be happy to see new mods like : - 1 lane 5v5 pvp with towers
- Assault (domination like points that need to be capped but at far slower rate than current domination ones - time limited)
- Escort (not very optimistic about implementation of this due to coding since game doesnt support anything similar so far)
- Control (1 large domination point capped at slower pace where teams fight until one reaches certain time of control and clears out point)

I'm sure everyone understands that this would take enormous amount of effort so it would be nice to have Pvp only dedicated mod or implement it over the time of few mods.

2. Competitiveness - Everyone wants their name seen and acknowledged as one of the best in what they do - current leaderboard is near to useless so I would advice making a ranked leaderboard:
- Every mod is a start of a season:
- When season begins all players start with 5000 points but ones who didn't do single match are not displayed at all until they do their first match.
- Ranked games only affect changes in leaderboard points - losing a game takes away points you had and winning gives you more points. Max amount of points a player can get is 10000. Players with 8000 points or more must do at least a game per day or they lose 20 points on days they did not play at least 1 ranked match. How many points in a single game you win or lose depends on your placement at the end of the match. every player on the winning team gets 10 points + 2 more for every place above the middle of scoreboard placement and -2 for every place below middle of scoreboard.

3. Rewards - one of the reasons for lack of interest in PVP is also a bad rewarding system - Pvp match takes a decent amount of time and things you can buy with glory aside from gear are not very useful or wanted in particular.
I suggest adding new currency (call it currency X for now). Currency X is obtained in 2 ways:
- ranked matches - 0 for loss (taking care of bots), and 3 for win + extra 1 for first 3 places on scoreboard.
- By standing on the first (enter number here) places of ranked leaderboard every day those players get some amount of X-es for holding their position.
Now add another vendor with stuff that can be bought with this gear.
I advice following type of stuff:
- 1 enchanted key ( 50X-es)
- 1 Legendary key ( 25-30X-es)
- Choice of BOA epic companions (700X-es)
- Choice of BOA epic mounts (350-400X-es)
- Legendary BOA Armored Champions Bulette (10000X-es)
- Various refinement, reinforcement kits, companion upgrade tokens, unique transmutes, titles, profession resources etc.

The idea behind the currency and pricing of items is that earning from PVP should stay lower than earning from PVE but still be far better than they are now in terms of rewards. It should be primary played for fun, prestige and glory among other players and profit comes in only second.

4. Matchmaking - nobody likes losing all the time but nobody should win all the time either - and to ahhieve maximum competitiveness among players an efficient matchmaking system must be made.
Players ratings should be distributed from 1000 points (min) to 10000 points (max). Once a player queues for a match the system starts finding players of same rating - as the time passes the rating that is acceptable to enter the game spreads slowly from that player rating to both sides (higher and lower values). Once 10 players are found within certain rating range (withing 6547-6845 for example) they are pulled into match. Now players are distributed to the teams so that the sum of both team ratings is as close to equal as possible. Due to the specific queue system for start I would disable party queueing (only solo queueing) to avoid premades until the proper solution is made for those kind of players.

I kinda feel like I forgot something but oh well...

Great feedback! Sorry I could not touch upon all aspects of NW during the stream, but PvP is dear to me (I'm one of the ranking players when we have team matches )- and something that is on our list for more love. I don't forsee any dedicated servers or mods, but leaderboards are on the list for updating, as well as a few other things.
Thanks again for taking the time for this feedback.
Regards,
M.K.

New maps, new modes, keep the maximum at 10 (5v5) for Domination. Assault, Control and Escort too if you add similar game types to those listed. Implement 1 of each class in Public Queues, update leaderboards like you said, change queue so it identifies item level or some sort of skill rating and most importantly add rewards to PvP!

Good to see you respond on here though MK!

kalina311

see i knew they were working on something ...

+1 @mimicking#6533 said

"but PvP is dear to me" ........... it is my precious : D

modlesie

quickfoot#7851 said:

2) a few more maps and content/match styles would go a long way. What we have now, basically caters to tanky classes, even some of the best CW's I've seen around, build their toons to be as tanky as possible.

CW's mobility is very good, for example i can hold my sieging ring boon through most of the time during fight, only his movement speed could be increased since heavy armored warriors can run 2 times faster with shield up than CW in pyjamas.

PS. Wait until you'll met some good GWF, you will add him fast in your class balance list
PS2. Wonder to know nickname of pvp Dev :P

marnival

IF you want pvp to florish you need to equalize gear/powers and make it less item/gear dependent making build/skill a larger factor.

The common factor for almost all succesful pvp game compared to the non succesful is the gear/power gap.
A larger gap with bis players stomping new players is one of the best way to make sure pvp decline to a standstill.
Unless you do this all changes will be bandaids without adressing the the real issue at hand.

You need a cc system that actually works
You need to cap daily or recovery for some dialy/powers as powercreep has made for a powerabuse never ment.
You need to give all same boons or remove boons when entering pvp
You need to remove mount powers all together in pvp
You need to give all that enter at least full pvp armor at start
You need to adress not pvp function powers such as in first hand piercing damage and invisibility and Gf ability to chain people to death

Many things are adressed above also like better reward etc.

Ther are several quite succeful pvp games out there it is not that hard to look why they are succeful and gear gap is if not the largest it is one of the major factors for a make or break in all pvp games.

Best

ilmenira

pvp used to be interesting/fun in the early modules. it's a challenging game mode and i witnessed how engaged players/friends could become... practicing, theory crafting etc. i was a rather casual, mid level gear player, playing classes with which it was possible to survive and cap without top IL, on and off, for some years.

the community kind of destroyed itself. it was unable to work against the framework set by developers, or soften it -- at some point it became pointless for solo players to get stomped by guild premades... hihgly unfair, troll mode, very boring ... mostly fire camp sitting by the non premade side before i stopped.

solo queue felt promising, but to be honest it took too long to get implemented. i demoted my pvp chars and do occasional random this or that with them now. no desire/longing to return right now. and i'm not sure what kind of change, new ideas it would need to change that... the last thing i remember that attracted many players (apart from solo queue weeks) was the pvp month (can't remember what it was called) back in ? ...

sad story... and wish you all challenging matches!

lordaeolos

In my opinion there are two facets to the current state of PvP on PC: Players and the Game itself.

#1 Players

- PvP has been infected with a cancer of maybe a dozen self-proclaimed “elite” players, who are on a personal mission to stomp other players into the ground, then jump on the dead bodies, camp spawn locations, or not play at all when the team they got queued with is less than desirable/ they don’t like who is on their team. These players don’t care about the competition, they don’t care about the team, they only care about tearing down other players for an ego boost. This turns both new and veteran players away from PvP for greener PvE pastures, or other games entirely. Frankly I don't see a solution to this, it's a problem in all PvP games...

- PMvsPM (pre-made vs pre-made) chat channel hasn’t been moderated in ages (channel owners left the game) and has become the wild west of abusive/ bullying chat that frequently goes into “TOS violation” territory. Right now the only way to moderate the bullying in this channel is to screen shot what is being said then report it. This channel needs to go.

#2 The Game itself

- We haven’t seen a new PvP map since Stronghold siege, which couldn’t handle the volume, and even now can take 2 -3 hours to pop a queue on the weekend unless you create a private match. No new content, reduced interest.

- Queue System… There are a few guilds that seems to have figured out a way to game the current solo queue system, not sure how else to explain how the same 4 -5 players from the same guild always wind up on the same teams against groups of people with under 10k IL’s, nothing like being the only geared player on a team with no TR’s and no tanks against a team with fully geared 2 TR’s, GF’, OP, and a CW from the same guild. Do this 3 matches in a row every day, and see how many days you go before quitting PvP.

- Class balance… 12k TR’s melting 17k OP’s, CW’s jump dodge, GWF jumping sure strike.. lions… yeah plenty said on this.

kalina311

lordaeolos said:

In my opinion there are two facets to the current state of PvP on PC: Players and the Game itself.

#1 Players

- PvP has been infected with a cancer of maybe a dozen self-proclaimed “elite” players, who are on a personal mission to stomp other players into the ground, then jump on the dead bodies, camp spawn locations, or not play at all when the team they got queued with is less than desirable/ they don’t like who is on their team. These players don’t care about the competition, they don’t care about the team, they only care about tearing down other players for an ego boost. This turns both new and veteran players away from PvP for greener PvE pastures, or other games entirely. Frankly I don't see a solution to this, it's a problem in all PvP games...

- PMvsPM (pre-made vs pre-made) chat channel hasn’t been moderated in ages (channel owners left the game) and has become the wild west of abusive/ bullying chat that frequently goes into “TOS violation” territory. Right now the only way to moderate the bullying in this channel is to screen shot what is being said then report it. This channel needs to go.

#2 The Game itself

- We haven’t seen a new PvP map since Stronghold siege, which couldn’t handle the volume, and even now can take 2 -3 hours to pop a queue on the weekend unless you create a private match. No new content, reduced interest.

- Queue System… There are a few guilds that seems to have figured out a way to game the current solo queue system, not sure how else to explain how the same 4 -5 players from the same guild always wind up on the same teams against groups of people with under 10k IL’s, nothing like being the only geared player on a team with no TR’s and no tanks against a team with fully geared 2 TR’s, GF’, OP, and a CW from the same guild. Do this 3 matches in a row every day, and see how many days you go before quitting PvP.

- Class balance… 12k TR’s melting 17k OP’s, CW’s jump dodge, GWF jumping sure strike.. lions… yeah plenty said on this.

lol ya the cws "jump dodge is the problem" grasping for straws are we lol

pitmonster

IMHO, PVP always messes up a game build for PVE. You try to balance things that just were never meant to be balanced.

In relation to PVE, instead of trying to make it so every class can run the content on their own, just allow more than one companion so you can form your own party and give the companions better AI. If I want to play a healer and just heal my companions while they fight, why not? The object is for the players to have fun and PW to make money.

baronstragen

IMHO, the best pvp I've ever had occured in a game that was initally in competition with WoW (hint: rhymes with build oars).
Some cool points about the system
-As balance is a concern in PvP, the PvP effect causes many skills to be weaker in competitive play than in PvE.
-Arena battles are fast paced. Fights usually end in less than three minutes.
-Dishonorable Combatant System is used to punish players who leave a PvP match prematurely, for leeching experience or faction, or for falsely reporting team members for leeching.

I'm sure these 3 major points will bring back some happy memories It was the most balanced PvP system I had ever played and I always had fun. I quit pvping here years ago because it isn't enjoyable to me anymore.

callumf

@baronstragen

Yes the Build Oars game had me hooked on pvp for about a year and a half, pvping about an hour per day in pug groups 4 v 4.

Now I am not a very competent pvper but the balance must have been pretty good to keep me playing it! Overall I was winning in pvp 4v4 matches about 35% - 40% of the time and that includes playing against pre-made teams of 4, so overall great balance.

- Also as most players have said, mixing pve and pvp with the same player isnt very easy to do. I liked the Build Oars system where you rolled a character for pvp and nearly everyone was on a pretty level playing field. Therefore it took skill, timing, builds and teamwork to win the fights NOT just what itemz you had. There is a lesson to be learned here

klangeddin

At the cost of being controversial: PvP and MMORPGS simply don't go hand in hand.
It's really the genre that is prone to all those shortcomings listed in this thread. The "roflstomp" issue, the "pve vs pvp" focus debate, ecc..
When someone wants to do pvp in a mmorpg he has to accept this whole package (which includes the bad).
There are games that solve these problems, but they are not rpgs, and sometimes they don't have PvE either. This includes games LoL, DoTa, First Person Shooters, Vehicle Simulators, ecc...
The crucial element is Permanent Progression, this progression, which is what keeps PvE alive and thriving, is a gigantic source of problems for PvP.
Can you imagine a chess game with Kasparov playing with 10 queens vs a first time player with only 1 tower? That's pretty much what happens with PvP in mmorpgs all the time.

The only way to make it balanced and fair would be to qualize all stats on pvp. But this defeats the most prominent aspect of RPGs, progression.
But this would drive insane pretty much every player who spent even a dime (for example, for mounts) to get a sort of advantage in pvp. And, of course, it would cut any future earning for the game from this source (ie. no more players who "pay to win").