wow: "But the truth is a 4K DO is just as effective (if they know what they are doing) as a 17K DO. That was my point. "
really? that proofs you don't know the DC class.
and your suggestion of: power should have an influence on TI - no just no. Why not? Because the AC DC stacks Power Recovery why should he also be a good DO DC? Take another Stat like crits or something AC DC can't stack so people have to decide what they want to be AC or DO.
The last thing: the changes to the DC made will kill the DO/DC again - noone want a DO DC anymore because it can't help for stuns so in to9g you need an AC DC for a "normal" group.
Most groups NEED AA and can't run without - so AC DC gets prefered - there will be no room left for DOs for lates hard content.
I agree with the post. The DO cleric is supposed to be the DPS class, they could adjust TI to add a bit of 'personal' damage and have the shared damage based on the clerics power.
Maybe they can do something like this: TI Power: Gives the DC 2,5%, 5%, 7,5%, 10% extra damage buff (personal) also shares 4,5%, 9%, 13,5%, 18% of base power as extra damage to the cleric and the group
Dunno if that will work with WoL..
a DC is NEVER a DPS class - you need to buff him more than 100% if you want to have DO as DPS - but we have enough DPS classes noone needs a cleric as DPS - sure a good geared DO can do good DPS but nowhere near a same IL HR GWF CW - and thats ok!
a DC is NEVER a DPS class - you need to buff him more than 100% if you want to have DO as DPS - but we have enough DPS classes noone needs a cleric as DPS - sure a good geared DO can do good DPS but nowhere near a same IL HR GWF CW - and thats ok!
Correct, not a DPS class, i meant DO is supposed to be the build that does the most DPS (more then AC). Nothing compared to a real DPS class.
Maybe nice if they can add more personal damage for the DO build. With just 1 cleric in a group, in high end dungeons you'll only see AC builds anyway. I only use DO for solo play and the easy dungeons (anything lower then FBI) or in a 2 DC run (but i heard that is over in mod13?).
I agree with the post. The DO cleric is supposed to be the DPS class, they could adjust TI to add a bit of 'personal' damage and have the shared damage based on the clerics power.
Maybe they can do something like this: TI Power: Gives the DC 2,5%, 5%, 7,5%, 10% extra damage buff (personal) also shares 4,5%, 9%, 13,5%, 18% of base power as extra damage to the cleric and the group
Dunno if that will work with WoL..
a DC is NEVER a DPS class - you need to buff him more than 100% if you want to have DO as DPS - but we have enough DPS classes noone needs a cleric as DPS - sure a good geared DO can do good DPS but nowhere near a same IL HR GWF CW - and thats ok!
A GF is also not a DPS class yet a well built GF can keep up with a well built GWF, TR and HR. The reason for this is KC improves a GF damage on a single target, making a well built GF one of the best single target damaging classes in the game. It is why so many burn groups for T9 are running a GF for its single target damage.
There is no reason why the devs could not adjust all classes in this game to have 3 possible builds. For a DC two would be around being a Healer and Buffer with the 3rd being a DPS build. This would encourage us as players to buy a 3rd loadout if all classes had 3 true builds. In the current setup of this game the DC has two real builds and both use the same paragon path.
TI and its easy mode is just one of many issues in this game.
Here are my thoughts on all classes and the three possible builds based on the paragon capstone feat.
DC: Pure Buffer, Heale with some Buffing, DPS GF: Tank, Tank Buffer, DPS CW: Single Target DPS, AoE DPS, and Buffer SW: Single Target DPS, AoE DPS, and Templock HR: Melee DPS, Range DPS, and Buffer TR: AoE DPS, Single Target DPS, and Buffer GWF: Tank, Single Target DPS, AoE DPS OP: Healer Buffer, Tank Buffer, and DPS
The problem with this game is no one wants a DC, OP, or GF really to beat them in damage. When this happens we hear a call out for adjusting these classes damage. You have no idea how many times I get told by badly built GWF to buff them more. I'm literally using TI, BtS, DG, PoD and HG in runs and yet I get told I have no idea how to play my DC and I need to buff the GWF more. I'm sorry but the issue is not if a DC does more damage, it is the ego of players that play a DPS class and when they get beat by a support class.
IMO, all classes should be able to play a full DPS build that will allow them to burn through content, especially when running solo. Also, if the devs gave us more option, we should be able to select the roles when we Q that we can play with said class. This would than allow a DC to play as a DPS or Leader in content as needed. What is the point of offering players the ability to have more than 2 loadouts when most classes only really need 2 in the first place?
I believe our role should be determined by our Paragon feat capstone. This would give all players more options and not pigeonhole classes to specific roles like many on here want.
I was excited about the loadouts but my excitement was short lived due to no other updates giving us more options as players. Instead, it simply means I can run as a DC DO or DC AC and be your buff buddy and still get grief from players even when playing to my characters full potential as a buffer. I'm sorry, but DC's should be able to be full on DPS as should all classes have a support role they can play in content and be classified as said support role.
@mebengalsfan#9264 Why not just make GWF healers and HRs Tanks while we are at it :* To be honest back when they did the rework on DCs and buffed the damage from many of our powers it felt more like a nerf to me. I could swear i was hitting harder before the changes and all it caused was more DCs that attempt to go full DPS in dungeon runs and make for a very difficult run.
The problem I see is that some DPS don't know about the buffs we do. I been in quite a few runs where a DPS is telling me to buff them more. I was already using PoD, BtS, DG, HG and giving them TI. They also wanted m DO to do AA as well. The lack of understanding another class is very common in a MMO where a DPS is requesting more of X but do not understand the mechanics of the other class. Some are so naive that they think the only way to play this game is with 2 DCs.
I been in PE and watched one day where players were calling out for 2 DCs for eToS, CN, MC, etc...I have done eToS in under 10 minutes with a tank, 1 DPS and me on my DC. Being a DC is not hard.
The other issue I have seen is DO DC being the type of player to be carried through content. Seen this way too often in T9 that it is getting annoying running it now due to the laziness of some players. I mean my AC setup does about 25-50% less damage than my DO and yet here I am on my AC build doing 200-500% more damage than some of the DO in T9.
TI needs some type of update to ensure that the DC is actually doing something to get the bonus from TI; either through stats or by doing damage, maybe Brand of the Sun activates TI for the DO build on the target, this would require the DO to actually do damage and actually help the group. many of the bad DCs I have run into that are DO would probably not get into T9 if the devs did something like this.
This is very similar to getting into T9 with a 12K AC DC that does not even have 20K power.
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
anyone besides @mebengalsfan#9264 find the mystery DOs that campfire sit while the party clears the dungeon (outside of 3 man dungeons ofc)?
anyone besides @mebengalsfan#9264 find the mystery DOs that campfire sit while the party clears the dungeon (outside of 3 man dungeons ofc)?
I never said they sit at the campfire while the rest of the group clears everything else. Why put words that do not even match what I'm saying out there. There is a big difference between being carried and not helping the group at all.
I stated, that some of the DO's are being carried. A player that is carried from my experience helps the group out but is not pulling their weight in content. For instance, the DO uses HG only 3x in the whole run, once on each boss. The damage they produce is less than 75% of the damage I do on my AC build, the DO uses FF or BtS once per a boss, etc...they are helping but not pulling their weight.
Comments
really? that proofs you don't know the DC class.
and your suggestion of: power should have an influence on TI - no just no. Why not? Because the AC DC stacks Power Recovery why should he also be a good DO DC? Take another Stat like crits or something AC DC can't stack so people have to decide what they want to be AC or DO.
The last thing: the changes to the DC made will kill the DO/DC again - noone want a DO DC anymore because it can't help for stuns so in to9g you need an AC DC for a "normal" group.
Most groups NEED AA and can't run without - so AC DC gets prefered - there will be no room left for DOs for lates hard content.
Maybe nice if they can add more personal damage for the DO build. With just 1 cleric in a group, in high end dungeons you'll only see AC builds anyway. I only use DO for solo play and the easy dungeons (anything lower then FBI) or in a 2 DC run (but i heard that is over in mod13?).
There is no reason why the devs could not adjust all classes in this game to have 3 possible builds. For a DC two would be around being a Healer and Buffer with the 3rd being a DPS build. This would encourage us as players to buy a 3rd loadout if all classes had 3 true builds. In the current setup of this game the DC has two real builds and both use the same paragon path.
TI and its easy mode is just one of many issues in this game.
Here are my thoughts on all classes and the three possible builds based on the paragon capstone feat.
DC: Pure Buffer, Heale with some Buffing, DPS
GF: Tank, Tank Buffer, DPS
CW: Single Target DPS, AoE DPS, and Buffer
SW: Single Target DPS, AoE DPS, and Templock
HR: Melee DPS, Range DPS, and Buffer
TR: AoE DPS, Single Target DPS, and Buffer
GWF: Tank, Single Target DPS, AoE DPS
OP: Healer Buffer, Tank Buffer, and DPS
The problem with this game is no one wants a DC, OP, or GF really to beat them in damage. When this happens we hear a call out for adjusting these classes damage. You have no idea how many times I get told by badly built GWF to buff them more. I'm literally using TI, BtS, DG, PoD and HG in runs and yet I get told I have no idea how to play my DC and I need to buff the GWF more. I'm sorry but the issue is not if a DC does more damage, it is the ego of players that play a DPS class and when they get beat by a support class.
IMO, all classes should be able to play a full DPS build that will allow them to burn through content, especially when running solo. Also, if the devs gave us more option, we should be able to select the roles when we Q that we can play with said class. This would than allow a DC to play as a DPS or Leader in content as needed. What is the point of offering players the ability to have more than 2 loadouts when most classes only really need 2 in the first place?
I believe our role should be determined by our Paragon feat capstone. This would give all players more options and not pigeonhole classes to specific roles like many on here want.
I was excited about the loadouts but my excitement was short lived due to no other updates giving us more options as players. Instead, it simply means I can run as a DC DO or DC AC and be your buff buddy and still get grief from players even when playing to my characters full potential as a buffer. I'm sorry, but DC's should be able to be full on DPS as should all classes have a support role they can play in content and be classified as said support role.
I been in PE and watched one day where players were calling out for 2 DCs for eToS, CN, MC, etc...I have done eToS in under 10 minutes with a tank, 1 DPS and me on my DC. Being a DC is not hard.
The other issue I have seen is DO DC being the type of player to be carried through content. Seen this way too often in T9 that it is getting annoying running it now due to the laziness of some players. I mean my AC setup does about 25-50% less damage than my DO and yet here I am on my AC build doing 200-500% more damage than some of the DO in T9.
TI needs some type of update to ensure that the DC is actually doing something to get the bonus from TI; either through stats or by doing damage, maybe Brand of the Sun activates TI for the DO build on the target, this would require the DO to actually do damage and actually help the group. many of the bad DCs I have run into that are DO would probably not get into T9 if the devs did something like this.
This is very similar to getting into T9 with a 12K AC DC that does not even have 20K power.
I stated, that some of the DO's are being carried. A player that is carried from my experience helps the group out but is not pulling their weight in content. For instance, the DO uses HG only 3x in the whole run, once on each boss. The damage they produce is less than 75% of the damage I do on my AC build, the DO uses FF or BtS once per a boss, etc...they are helping but not pulling their weight.